How About A Trade Down?
March 25th, 2018
Next move?
So the Bucs finally got their guy when Bucs AC/DC-loving general manager Jason Licht acquired defensive end Jason Pierre-Paul last week.
What is next?
Well, Jenna Laine of ESPN is of the mind the Bucs need to trade down in the draft.
The Bucs, who hold the No. 7 pick, don’t need a starting quarterback, but teams like the Buffalo Bills (No. 12 pick) and Arizona Cardinals (No. 15) do. Say the Cardinals really like Wyoming quarterback Josh Allen, who’s still on the board after No. 5. That could happen if the New York Giants decide to fill the void left by Pierre-Paul by selecting NC State’s Bradley Chubb at No. 2, and the Denver Broncos pass on a quarterback at No. 5. The Cardinals could give their 15th overall pick to the Bucs, plus the 15th pick in the second round and a sixth-round pick in 2019. The Bucs don’t have a third-round round pick because of the trade for Pierre-Paul, and a deal like this could allow them to address three key needs — cornerback, safety and running back — in the first two rounds.
Joe is of the mind to trade down too, but for much different reasons.
The Bucs simply need to fill too many holes. They still need a running back, likely still need a guard and Joe wouldn’t be opposed to a safety, but Joe’s unsure it is such a need the team needs to burn a first round pick on the guy.
And no, there is no way in hell the Bucs should draft a cornerback. Now that isn’t saying the Bucs don’t need a corner. The Bucs absolutely need a corner. Problem is, this current defensive coaching staff has shown a much greater ability in destroying young corners than it has developing one. To draft a corner on one of the first two days of the draft is just as good as burning a valuable draft pick.
Currently, it seems the Bucs are hellbent on starting Ryan Smith at corner. And Joe doesn’t think the team is willing to throw the towel in on Vernon Hargreaves so quickly.
March 25th, 2018 at 8:08 am
Ryan Smith WILL turn the corner this year, rookie year in the books, I expect him to be better with a decent pass rush, I thought he improved in the latter games, but Grimes is on a one year deal, VH3 seems more suited for the slot, who cares if he was a first round pick, his next contract is a slot CB, we are drafting for the future at corner.
March 25th, 2018 at 8:14 am
In this division of offense yes safety is a need. Don’t know why people think that if we somehow are able to stop the run and force teams to throw that they won’t actually be able to work Ryan Smith and Chris Conte black there. Heck yeah corner or safety is a must in the first not running back especially if you can get one just as good in the second round.
March 25th, 2018 at 8:17 am
Our corners would look a lot better with a playmaker at S…sometimes people forget that football is the ultimate team sport…it is hard for any one position to shine all by himself
March 25th, 2018 at 8:19 am
Or.. trade GMC and get sue for a +- 2nd round pick
March 25th, 2018 at 8:25 am
There are very few Safeties that should be drafted in the 7 spot. If Chubb or Barkley are gone, trade down and I hate trading down.
March 25th, 2018 at 8:26 am
If they could trade down and still get Denzel ward or Derwin James then sure.
And with extra pick get guice is loose or Michel at running back. They would be a much deeper all around team.
Then get another db …and de or oline from smaller school in later rounds.
March 25th, 2018 at 8:28 am
It makes no sense to have a worthless secondary in a division that it quarterback Rich. It’s not like were the patriots that get to play the jets dolphins and bills twice a year and none of those teams have had a legit QB since marino Kelly and namath! With Brees Cam and Ryan it’s imperative that we have a strong set of corners and safeties and we don’t. We have a great front 7 but the back end is awful. We need to get a shut down corner and a good safety to play next to Evans and grimes. I’m all for a trade with buffalo. Let’s get 2 number 1 picks and a 2nd round pick for the 7th and finish off this great off-season we had beefing up put D line. We already have great line backers. Go bucs
March 25th, 2018 at 8:31 am
I think this year will see the return of players included in draft day pick position trades….that was common years ago
March 25th, 2018 at 8:39 am
We must get a shut down corner and a safety it’s what they call team needs. Plenty of good running backs in the draft
March 25th, 2018 at 8:41 am
Trade for a shutdown corner sign bashad brielen I don’t care but get somebody that can play football. Draft Derwin James drives Denzel Ward I don’t care just make the secondary good
March 25th, 2018 at 8:43 am
Denzel Ward or Detain James is a must. The back end of our defense must be solidified. I’m still not opposed to drafting Davenport because we don’t have to rush him, bring him in on passing downs and he can learn from veteran DEs Curry and JPP. We can never have enough DEs and we don’t know what to expect from Spence.
March 25th, 2018 at 8:47 am
As Buc50 ( pronounced fitty? ) says…I hate trading down as well. But dropping from 5 to 7 because JW “traded” outta Koetter’s 7 yard out play call 😉 has me reluctantly agreeing with the trade down option if it presents itself…unless Barkley or Chubb somehow remain on the board. I vote “no” to Nelson at 7.
March 25th, 2018 at 8:48 am
I completely agree with buc4life
March 25th, 2018 at 8:49 am
If you look at our needs after Licht’s revamp of DLine it only makes since that we take a talented DB at 7,or 12. You may lose James and Fitzpatrick by 15 so I wouldn’t get too aggressive Unless you are a Vea, Wynn, or Guice fan all of which would be luxury picks around 15. I still worry about those Big NFC South receivers and only a fool would think that Breeze, Newton, and Matty Ice are going to drop off this year.
March 25th, 2018 at 8:52 am
Pass rush makes the world go round.
If the big three are gone, then flip a coin for Marcus Davenport or Vita Vea!
It all starts up front! Secondary pieces are meaningless without a legit pass rush.
March 25th, 2018 at 8:53 am
Completely disagree with Joe.
The Bucs defense with their new line, a great group of linebackers and Evans and Derwin James at the two safety positions should be nasty.
March 25th, 2018 at 8:54 am
Preach the truth Wausa I’m buying what your typing!
March 25th, 2018 at 8:55 am
LOL @ Bird – “get dB or o-line from smaller school in later rounds!” So you don’t have a specific player in mind? Are you anti big school? You know the best athletes tend to go to the bigger schools. I know you mean try to reach on a player that may need to develop but they also have those same types of guys at the best programs as well. I doubt Hobart has a stud o-lineman playing this year that should be drafted. Such a weird comment to say get a player from a small school when you don’t have anyone in mind.
March 25th, 2018 at 8:57 am
The current coaching staff hasn’t been in place long enough to be forever branded with inability to develop a corner.
March 25th, 2018 at 8:58 am
I’d love to trade down and get Derwin James, but I don’t think he makes it out of the top ten. My order of players in the first I want the Bucs to draft:
1) Bradley Chubb
2) Saquan Barkley
3) Derwin James
4) Quenton Nelson
5) Denzel Ward
March 25th, 2018 at 9:00 am
Get Shaq Griffin in the 4th round to play strong safety. People forget, he’s played there, his brother plays there. Griffin has 4.38 speed, better then James, Fitz. He’s bigger, and faster then both, can also line up as L.B. stand up edge rusher. Don’t use the 7th pick on a safety there’s better options later on.
March 25th, 2018 at 9:00 am
We keep trying to tell some of y’all… FIX THE TRENCHES. Yes trade back with Buff would be optimal.
Vea
Landry with the first 2 picks
To my point though
Coach Smitty has to play a more aggressive scheme with the secondary. I believe he will now ( hope so. ) I’ve got faith in RS to have a better year.
Alas i do agree we NEED a SS BAD. I don’t wanna see Conte at all.
March 25th, 2018 at 9:00 am
I guess the good news is we suck again this year they will fire the current regime and then hopefully they will get a proven head coach! Bring back Dungy he can help build a nasty defense like the Sapp lynch barber Brooks rice days.. a man can dream right?
March 25th, 2018 at 9:01 am
“It all starts up front! Secondary pieces are meaningless without a legit pass rush.”….chicken or the egg”….not so simple….Dungy’s Tampa 2 was based on both….hence the Tamap 2 …sealing the top of the defense while the DL did it’s dirty deeds….
March 25th, 2018 at 9:02 am
Altered ego brought his A game to the conversation today nice job brother
March 25th, 2018 at 9:06 am
Quenton Neslon might be the best player in the draft. No way we take Derwin James over him.
If we take a DB, hopefully it’s because we traded back.
Build the trenches. Fix the team up front. That is the only way to make our team more successful. DBs are hung out to dry bc our inferior pass rush.
March 25th, 2018 at 9:06 am
Draft at 7 Derwin James – ELITE safety.
Draft at 38 RB – a top 5 talent.
March 25th, 2018 at 9:08 am
Altered ego,
Good point. I would argue that our pass rush has been so abysmal that no DB could succeed. We need talent and depth up front. On both sides of the ball.
Teams don’t let pass rushers/trench players go to FA. It’s iur duty to draft them.
March 25th, 2018 at 9:09 am
lets not forget the young and growing 20 year old stud LB Trumaine Edmunds !…..not exactly what we think we need today…but going forward he’d be the talk of the town every post game !
March 25th, 2018 at 9:09 am
Nelson would be to good to be true like Chubb were all assuming we don’t get those guys
March 25th, 2018 at 9:11 am
What’s so elite about Derwin James? I don’t see it? Physical specimen, yes. Major knee injury in college, yes. I’ve heard his instincts aren’t the best.
March 25th, 2018 at 9:12 am
Sign – NT
• Bennie Logan
Sign – CB
• Bashaud Breeland
**Potential Upgraded Depth Chart
Based On Snap Count (2017)
RDE Vinny Curry – 578 | Noah Spence – 247 | Will Clarke – 315
RDT Gerald McCoy – 810 | Mitch Unrein – 389
LDT Bennie Logan – 572 | Beau Allen – 422
LDE Jason Pierre-Paul – 1011 | William Gholston – 447
WLB Lavonte David | Cameron Lynch
MLB Kwon Alexander | Adarius Glanton
SLB Kendell Beckwith | Devante Bond
CB Brent Grimes | Ryan Smith
CB Bashaud Breeland | David Rivers
CB Vernon Hargreaves | Javien Elliott
S Chris Conte | Keith Tandy
SS Justin Evans | Isaiah Johnson
Then we can maneuver the board – however we damn please.
March 25th, 2018 at 9:12 am
Ward Fitzpatrick or derwin James in that order or trade down with buffalo
March 25th, 2018 at 9:14 am
Luvmybucs with the post of the day! Clap clap clap I couldn’t agree more I hope they do it!!
March 25th, 2018 at 9:15 am
Sign bashad breeland and Bennie Logan. We have the cap space USE IT
March 25th, 2018 at 9:15 am
jason licht and coach koetter are promoting new methodology for winning…they are having trainers order tons of tea tree oil…then diluting it with water in big spray bottles…if a player isn’t playing well or has an injury, just spray the mofo down with tea tree oil and all ills will be cured…prepare for a big time 12-4 type season due to tea tree oil baths and hose downs…you will see a huge sponsored add in ray jay for tea tree oil this season and one of the give aways at a game will be a 5ml tea tree oil glass jar bottle for all fans attending the game…do not throw your tea tree oil jar at gerald mccoy and clunk him in the head on the sidelines…he’s easy to spot on the bench with rosy red hair and a star wars comic book in hand
March 25th, 2018 at 9:16 am
Have to take the BPA regardless of position at 7 IMO, the goal is to not be in the top ten again for a long time, so grab a 10 year starter while you can
If I’m the GM I stick to my guns unless someone is willing to overpay me for my spot- no way I drop for a 2 and a6 next year – not enough value
Outside of the qbs – we are in a spot to get one of the best 3-5 position players out there -don’t screw it up!!!
March 25th, 2018 at 9:17 am
Hell, If we make those moves – we can trade down two or three times.
And still possible land RB Derrius Guice.
March 25th, 2018 at 9:17 am
Hard to trade down when there are 3 non-Qb needy teams behind the Bucs!!!!!!! Unless you are trading down at a huge discount!!!!!!!!!!
GO Bucs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
March 25th, 2018 at 9:18 am
Alan
I hope so brotha
March 25th, 2018 at 9:23 am
Wins = drafting Darwin James after a trade to 12 with the bills!
March 25th, 2018 at 9:25 am
If we go in that direction we won’t have to worry about filling holes in the draft the board of be completely open. 3 teams behind us need a QB Lamar Jackson is still a great option for those teams behind us. With that being said the 7th pick of the draft is extremely valuable to those teams and if 2 or 3 go before the 7th pick expect to hear the Tampa bay buccaneers have made a trade on draft night
March 25th, 2018 at 9:31 am
“The Bucs absolutely need a corner. Problem is, this current defensive coaching staff has shown a much greater ability in destroying young corners than it has developing one.” – J0E
That’s an unjustified statement, Joe, and very short-sighted.
VHIII had one bad one bad year.
Ryan Smith played Safety his first year. Last year was his first year at CB in the NFL. It was more like a rookie year for him last year.
So really, you are making that assumption because of the results on one year…last year. They have not destroyed anyone at all in regard to corner.
March 25th, 2018 at 9:32 am
But I’m not saying the Bucs should not get another corner. They should. Nothing is written in stone yet.
March 25th, 2018 at 9:35 am
Banzai I do agree you’re making a lot of sense and I really can’t argue anything you’ve said however a shut down corner comes in the league and dominates from day one like a jalen Ramsey and that’s what we need or trade down
March 25th, 2018 at 9:36 am
We can get a bunch of Vernon Hargreaves at the end of the 1st or 2nd round but if we’re gonna waste the 7th pack it’s gotta be a shut down corner like ward or james
March 25th, 2018 at 9:37 am
Please just signed bashad breeland and Bennie Logan open up the board for us. We have the cap space it will make training camp more competitive and will have a lot of depth
March 25th, 2018 at 9:38 am
Trading down would be the best move after the JPP trade and Jenna nailed the reasons why. Picking up an extra day 2 pick now is key.
I think they will target a DB in the first round. Whether it is Derwin James at #7 or trading back and picking up a CB. The secondary is by far the weakest unit on this team and a premium pick should be used to bolster it.
March 25th, 2018 at 9:39 am
It’s official that every die hard Bucsx fan in this post agrees our secondary is worthless so hopefully they fix it
March 25th, 2018 at 9:40 am
And another thing I am so sick and tired of seeing Chris Conti on the field can we please let that guy go
March 25th, 2018 at 9:40 am
@Alan
The reason Breeland is still a FA is because he failed a physical. Nobody will sign him until his foot is healed and he can pass a physical.
March 25th, 2018 at 9:41 am
Alan
Very tru. Flexibility is key.
2017 Draft (Comps)
Buffalo Traded their:
• First-round (No. 10) pick
->>To the Chiefs for:
• First-round (No. 27) pick (drafted CB Tre’Davious White)
• Third-round (No. 91) pick
• (2018) First-round pick
Cleveland Traded their:
• First-round (No. 12) pick
->>To the Texans for:
• First-round (No. 25) pick (Jabrill Peppers)
• 2018 first-round pick.
March 25th, 2018 at 9:41 am
My first choice is to trade up and get Saquon Barkley.
He is that good, and will change the team that drafts him for the next 10 years
Hes in the Barry Sims, Eric Dickerson, Hershel Walker category.
If not Possible- a trade down is the next best option. we can fill our needs
The best in picks 20- 80
March 25th, 2018 at 9:42 am
Trade down a couple times and get out of the first round completely. Load up on 2’nd and 3’rd round picks and fill all the holes with good low risk players. Belichick move.
March 25th, 2018 at 9:43 am
Captain Tim we all would love that but this is the Tampa Bay Buccaneers were talking about they don’t do things like that
March 25th, 2018 at 9:44 am
Trading the #7 Pick
For
– Late 1st
– A 3rd
– 2019 1st
WIn-Win
March 25th, 2018 at 9:44 am
Joey your right he failed the physical with the stinking Panthers as Joe would say but his worthless foot would still be better than anybody we have in our secondary
March 25th, 2018 at 9:47 am
Luv my bucs is making sense again!
We need to do something bold and blow up the NFL like what captain tim said but we all know that’s not going to happen hence why we have all spent our morning coming up with realistic “Tampa bay glazier” ideas that don’t involve going after Barkley… but I would love that. I say if Barkley Chubb Nelson and ward are gone we trade down and in this bucs life we live we all know that’s what’s gonna happen
March 25th, 2018 at 9:48 am
Alan Says
“Let’s get 2 number 1 picks and a 2nd round pick for the 7th”
That will never happen. You are dreaming.
And, as to one of your following posts about getting a new HC next year…that’s not going to happen. The biggest weakness on this team and the reason they lost so many games last year were the Lines. Licht has now fixed both lines.
Sure, the OL could use a little more added to it…a RT to replace Dotson for example…maybe a Guard (although until he is cut, we can assume Sweezy will be put there).
Everyone thinks this team is riddled with holes. I disagree.
We obviously need a Cornerback. Grimes is on his final year of his career. No chance he returns next year and we don’t want to through a rookie to the wolves next year. We need either a rookie to break in or a veteran next year (because we’re done with Free Agency now except for camp meat).
We need a Running Back. Really I think we need two, but one as a starter.
Safety? Truth be told, we have Justin Evans, who played well as a rookie, and we have Conte, who is not elite but is solid. When it comes right down to it? We could wait a year for a Safety…although I think we’ll address it in this draft.
And finally…we need another young DE.
So…the most important needs are RB and CB. Then DE. Then Safety.
4 needs.
March 25th, 2018 at 9:49 am
Capt. Tim
C’mon now – put the coffee down.
This young man is nowhere close to Eric Dickersons level.
I’ll never forget how that brotha gashed us – everytime we played him.
March 25th, 2018 at 9:50 am
I thought and still think licht is going DE, RB and CB in first 3 rounds. He got his DE in the 3rd already. As much as I’d hate to see it too I think if Barkleys gone Licht will take a corner in the first and RB in the 2nd. So I’d love to see a trade back. Find a way to get another 2nd and maybe 3rd. Buffalo is loaded with picks and you can over charge on draft day. Plus selfishly it would make my intense draft coverage much more pleasurable.
I did study all Lichts drafts about a week ago and I would be as surprised as any if he trades back. He just doesnt do it. He is much more likely to trade away picks to move up for his cant miss guys. Either way its gona be exciting. Adding jpp could possibly allow him to not reach and trade back for once.
March 25th, 2018 at 9:51 am
I don’t think trading up is an option, not realistically.
All of the teams above us have good reason to stay there. So trading up would take a kings ransom…and it just is not worth it.
You are talking about mortgaging the rest of our draft this year for one player. That makes zero sense.
March 25th, 2018 at 9:52 am
Lest you forget, we are not that good at developing QB’s
March 25th, 2018 at 9:52 am
darin Says
“I thought and still think licht is going DE, RB and CB in first 3 rounds.”
You mean first 2 rounds. Bucs do not have a third.
More likely to be CB and RB.
March 25th, 2018 at 9:53 am
@passthebuc
Total bull.
March 25th, 2018 at 9:54 am
Bonzai everything you said I agree with except the conte is sold comment. That guy sucks every time I envision him see him missing tackles getting burned by number 2 and 3 wrs and limping off the field. The only reason we keep signing him is because nobody else is making offers to his agent LOL
March 25th, 2018 at 9:55 am
“To draft a corner on one of the first two days of the draft is just as good as burning a valuable draft pick”
Stupid take Joe. You are smarter than this. CB and RB are our biggest needs.
March 25th, 2018 at 9:56 am
Luv my bucs for GM in 2019!
March 25th, 2018 at 9:57 am
For those that want to trade down you should hope only three QB’s are picked before the 7th pick.
I would be shocked if 4 QB’s are not selected within the first 5 picks of the draft though.
March 25th, 2018 at 9:58 am
Pick grin is right too. I’d like to add head coach and GM to that as well hahaha
March 25th, 2018 at 9:58 am
Wausa from your finger tips to God’s eyes. Amen
March 25th, 2018 at 9:59 am
Alan
Lol – Just 4 fun my brotha.
Just One piece of the Armchair GM squad. Here on JBF.
March 25th, 2018 at 10:00 am
Eric _ amen dude. Sick of hearing they can’t develop a corner. Hargreaves isn’t good yet and wasn’t to begin with and Ryan smith is terrible and was all along so that means don’t draft Denzel ward lmao. Cmon that’s a lazy take
March 25th, 2018 at 10:03 am
You know everybody in this post has thought about how we could throw a touchdown against our secondary it’s awful hahahaha
March 25th, 2018 at 10:04 am
This will only be VH’s third year. He’s got time to develop.
March 25th, 2018 at 10:06 am
My wife is a casual Bucs fan and she asks me why 3rd and long is just like 3rd and one with our secondary. Basically doesn’t matter how many yards the other team has to get on 3rd down with our secondary will give it all to them an more!
Please Jason fix the secondary in the draft
March 25th, 2018 at 10:26 am
I have said it before and I will say it again I am a huge FSU fan but I really have not seen anything in the GAMES that makes D. James so special. What big plays did he make, what games did he take over, what big win did he lead us to that the top safety in the draft makes? You see we need to land great players in the top 10 of the draft not a great athlete. At this point if we pick at 7 I say Chubb, Nelson, Barkley, Ward, or Fitzpatrick in that order.
March 25th, 2018 at 10:30 am
Joe are you retarded? It absolutely makes since to draft a corner with the QBs are receivers we have in this division. Outside of an aging Grimes we have ZERO talent at the position. Ward or Jackson would help tremendously.
March 25th, 2018 at 10:36 am
Ndog, east, luvmybucs, Wausa, pickgrin and others all making too much sense if we can see it hopefully the regime can too. I agree with Ndogs order too
March 25th, 2018 at 10:40 am
2018 Draft will be all about “Baker effect”
If Baker Mayfield is still available at #7, we will be able to steal both #1s from Buff or #1 & #2 from Arizona….
“Unless Indy does the deal before us”
Kobe Faker
March 25th, 2018 at 10:44 am
Very true Kobe! All I know is I’m tired of watching bad defense I guess we were spoiled the Dungy and Gruden years and to me this is unacceptable fix the secondary and get a running back and we can make the playoffs from there anyone can make the Superbowl go bucs
March 25th, 2018 at 10:47 am
Clearly @ Alan has NOT done his homework on Light’s history of trading behavior in his 4 years with the Bucs!
Second…@Capt. Tim, it’s NICE to have someone (else) joining the insurgency, and seeing the much larger picture and wisdom of what Barkley means to the success of any offense, and the business of any NFL organization. Forest…through the trees. It’s like talking to a brick wall, out here.
Then, there’s the foolish expedition of putting any analytical prowess, in the person “sourced” for this article. Jenna Laine??..I mean, c’mon folks.
Go Bucs!
March 25th, 2018 at 10:54 am
I’ve done the homework I’m just trying to encourage that behavior again dude
March 25th, 2018 at 11:03 am
Ndog
I don’t know what you are watching, but he was easily the best defender on the field for the Seminoles. He dominated Florida in the two games he played against them, made a game winning pass break up against Wake Forest and had several huge stops against Alabama and an incredible interception against Ole Miss that helped spur the come back in that game.
When he and Ramsey played on the same field it would have been a good argument as to whom was better and that was when Derwin was a true freshman.
Ramsey was also criticized for his lack of interceptions and now two years later he is probably the best corner in the NFL.
I know those within the football program have said Derwin is one of the best athletes that has ever played for Florida State.
I watched everyone of Derwin James college games and I would be surprised if he is not outstanding from day one.
March 25th, 2018 at 11:05 am
Of Indy does the deal before us then we get chubb.
Personally I am happy with Evans and conte/Tandy at safety for now. Top 10 pick at safety is too steep imo.
Here is how it like to see it shake out if we stay put and chubb/Barkley is gone
1st Ward
2nd Guice, Michel, Jones (in that order)
4th shaquiem Griffin
5-7 oline dline.
That would plug some holes and help a lot. To me corner is a bigger need cause grimes is older than jpp and most likely in his last year. We can groom jpp replacement next year.
And I do think ward is a shutdown corner worth of a top 10 pick.
March 25th, 2018 at 11:16 am
The Bucs dream scenario would be if Nelson was still there at #7. If so – they have to bounce and finish a huge upgrade at all 3 interior line positions. (And they should still keep Sweezey as great veteran depth to cover the inevitable injuries).
If he’s not there (and Barkley Chubb are both gone) then a trade down is a must.
But I completely disagree with what Jenna thinks they should pick. It’s all about the trenches this offseason. The Bucs need to bring in one more guard and a young DE with their first two picks to complete a truly remarkable rebuild with young talent.
KEEP FIXING THE TRENCHES AND YOU’LL FIX THE BUCS!!
March 25th, 2018 at 11:19 am
If we don’t get a shut down corner and more help on the secondary the D line we just improved won’t be effective. We need to give this d line time to get to the quarter back and with how wide open receivers get these qbs will have plenty of time to pick us apart. Fix the secondary make the playoffs that’s my slogan! Lol
March 25th, 2018 at 11:26 am
There is way too much love and people getting along in here today. Who are you people and what have you done with JBF?
March 25th, 2018 at 11:32 am
Post of the day! So true! Haha Mike Evans goat.
March 25th, 2018 at 11:34 am
What is everyone’s thoughts on drafting Marcus Davenport or Vita Vea if the big three are gone and no trade down presents itself?
March 25th, 2018 at 11:37 am
@Rrsrq
Ryan Smith was not a rookie last year. His rookie year they tried him t safety. He is going into his 3rd season.
March 25th, 2018 at 11:37 am
I’m good with it I love both of those guys. Just not at 7. They would look good if we traded for buffalos first two picks the first one at 12 looks great
March 25th, 2018 at 11:37 am
********************
JENNA seems to agree with what I’ve been saying for a long time, namely, “Draft Saquon, Chubb, Nelson or trade down” … however, she doesn’t seem to understand how trades work or the value of each pick as there is NO WAY the Bucs would trade the #7 for the #15, #47 and a 2019 6th rounder.
If the Cardinals were the team to trade up with the Bucs, I believe it would take their #15 AND their 2019 1st rounder at the very least … and possibly a bit more.
The Jets gave the Colts an extra 40% in draft capital to move up 3 slots from #6 to #3 … the market is set … if the Cardinals want to move up 8 slots, from #15 to #7, they will need to give the Bucs AT LEAST an extra 40% in draft capital. The trade Jenna proposes actually has the Bucs losing draft capital which is just absurd.
********************
March 25th, 2018 at 11:39 am
Beating the saints kinda ruined the trade down scenario
March 25th, 2018 at 11:43 am
I hope we have a strong offer to trade down. It would be nice to get a king’s ransom.
March 25th, 2018 at 11:47 am
All I’m saying is if Nelson Barkley and chubb aren’t there at 7 we should explore all options
March 25th, 2018 at 11:51 am
Fitzpatrick has eye popping film. The FSU kid doesn’t look to be nearly the athlete that Fitzpatrick is. He looks like just a better version of J Evans though who is also a hell of athlete.
March 25th, 2018 at 11:55 am
What do you think the odds are that chubb Nelson or Barkley make it to the 7th pick?
I know I’m dreaming but I’d like to see some of your scenarios on how that could happen
March 25th, 2018 at 11:55 am
@SteveK, if Nelson is gone and no trade offer worth dealing with came along, Iwould still take big V. I just worry about his little participation in the combine and his pro day. Looks like he’s injured and trying to hide it a little too much. But if it can heal 100% and he gets back to tearing things up, we wouldnt have to worry about drafting interior D line for a while.
Davenport is still raw and a reach at 7 but I think he’ll be gone by 15. It would grow on me if we did that and he was productive, but i’d rather spend our 7 if forced to use on Nelson or a DB….Fitz/Ward/James.
March 25th, 2018 at 11:59 am
Mad Max is joined the great comments of the day post Tampon Max con guy could learn a thing or 2 from all these brilliant thoughts
March 25th, 2018 at 12:04 pm
@Alan
I would say there are very good odds 1 of those 3 will be there at #7. All it takes is a team to fall in love with the QBs. Out of those 3 I think Barkley has the best chance to fall to #7.
March 25th, 2018 at 12:06 pm
@SteveK
Davenport isnt worth a top 10 pick imo. Vea might be worth it but I personally feel like they have to draft a DB with their 1st round pick.
March 25th, 2018 at 12:11 pm
I hope and pray your right joey
March 25th, 2018 at 12:12 pm
Joe, I disagree with your take that we can’t draft a CB because the coaching staff can’t develop them. It’s a two way street. If a guy is already as good as he’s gonna be than the coaching isn’t going to help. If we go with your premise, then we have to assume that the young corners we’ve had over that last few year would have been better with better coaches, and I don’t know that can be determined with any level of certainty. Most of the time a player doesn’t develop because he simply can’t. I’m not saying that it’s all of the players fault, but the only guy that had a reasonable expectation to improve was Hargreaves, and we know that he doesn’t have the speed to make up for mistakes, so I’m not going to label him as a coaching failure, but a skill set failure. The argument that can be realistically made against the coaches is: why did they draft him? I don’t believe that our coaches can’t develop a CB. I believe that we’ve picked the wrong players. A bum is a bum, no matter who he’s coached by. The player has to have the talent and the “want to” to improve.
March 25th, 2018 at 12:19 pm
Eric is probably right we have struggled developing jameis and was picked 1st
March 25th, 2018 at 12:21 pm
@Alan
I hope and pray Im wrong lol
March 25th, 2018 at 12:25 pm
NFLNUT – Jenna’s proposed trade is exact value.
#7 = 1500 draft value points
#15 – 1050 + #47 – 430 + #175 – 21.4 = 1501.4 draft value points
You ARE right about a “premium” normally being charged to a team wanting to jump up into (or move up in) the top 10 – especially when they are trying to get up to get a potential franchise QB.
But this may be a case where the Bucs are actually LOOKING to trade down. If Chubb, Nelson and Barkley are off the board – Licht will likely be on the phone shopping the pick if he’s not receiving calls already. In which case its harder to charge a “premium” when you are the one attempting to initiate a deal.
#15, #47, and AZ’s 4th rd pick (#111 – 72 points) for the #7 pick is likely the best Licht could finagle in such a circumstance. – And that’s only if the Cardinals like the QB(s) still left on the board.
March 25th, 2018 at 12:40 pm
I love NFL nut he always brings his A game to these posts
March 25th, 2018 at 12:42 pm
I love the “trade down” morons. Like there’s always a team willing to trade up. And give good value for it.
March 25th, 2018 at 1:05 pm
Joel no need to be negative bro were all just dreaming in post forums dont ruin it brother. It’s all we got in this bucs life
March 25th, 2018 at 1:17 pm
You guys and your chubb, nelson, barkley or bust stuff. Thats all media driven. Watch more football and have your own opinion. The bottom line is there will be ALOT of guys in this draft who make big impacts on teams this year.
From lichts signings and trades so far I’m thinking he is leaning corner. Ive been saying thats crazy for months but after adding some pass rush it might not be too crazy. Still need another pass rusher somewhere from the draft tho. One corner I’m high on is Mike Hughes from UCF. Great corner and better return man. We just never know who licht has ranked higher. Best case is one of the qb needy teams to trade up to recoup that 3rd and add another 2. I’d be all for Hughes. He’d be a number 1 corner quickly and one of the best kick returners in the league quickly imo. Then again dirk probably wouldnt have him returning kicks. This team needs a great returner bad tho and more talent at corner. Just hope smitty learned enough lessons last year to not have them be wasted picks. The defensive coaching last year was terrible, and thats being nice.
March 25th, 2018 at 1:20 pm
I don’t think too many teams have won football games with the head coach’s name Dirk
March 25th, 2018 at 1:43 pm
Alan
9-7 ring a bell?
March 25th, 2018 at 1:48 pm
Hey brother if you’re happy with one game over 500 God bless you lol
March 25th, 2018 at 1:50 pm
Sure beats anything we’ve had since 2010 so it’s a step up. Not saying I’m fine with it, but we’ve certainly done much much worse.
March 25th, 2018 at 1:57 pm
Pick up another CB in free agency, and then draft one too.
Ideally a guy who is at least than 6’0″ or taller….
March 25th, 2018 at 1:59 pm
Unbelievable speaking the truth we can use tall corner
March 25th, 2018 at 2:03 pm
There are a few ways one of the 3 fall.
I think it’s safe to say there will be for sure 2 qb picked. Cleveland and jets. Here is what you need.
Giants pick qb.
Cleveland trade 2nd pick to a qb needy team.
Denver pick qb
Colts pull another trade down to a qb needy team.
Someone ahead of us to evaluate need much higher than BPA (minkah, Ward, derwin, Mcglinchey).
Best scenario is that giants get a qb, Cleveland trades to bills for qb. I would think Denver would go with Nelson in that scenario and that would leave the Colts to choose between Barkley and chubb, we get the other.
March 25th, 2018 at 2:14 pm
Mojiska if that happens I’ll pop a cork on a champagne bottle let’s pray that happens however it’s far fetched and I’m not feeling it. But if it does wow!
March 25th, 2018 at 2:37 pm
It sure would’ve been nice to lose that last (meaningless) game of the year. We needed the win to endure confidence, but picking 5th would’ve all but ensured a crack at drafting one of the big three. I hope picking 7th still nets us one of them, or a trade down if the price is right.
If we have to use the pick on a player outside the big three, then I hope we flip a coin for Davenport or Vea!
March 25th, 2018 at 2:38 pm
Sounds good to me Steve! Go bucs
March 25th, 2018 at 2:53 pm
I appreciate, and somewhat agree with Joe’s comments on how drafting CB’s turns out for us. A trade down here plays best in the hands of the depth of the secondary value in this draft. At lets say #12, that is an excellent location to take advantage of the depth of the secondary in this draft addressing both best player available and need. Unless we are overwhelmed though, I’ll stick with the philosophy of take the player you want when you have the chance. My hope is they want D. James from FSU.
March 25th, 2018 at 2:55 pm
Easy there A train we need to see what falls in our lap first before we take derwin
March 25th, 2018 at 3:01 pm
SteveK,
If they are both available and it’s the #7 pick, the best decision is Davenport.
In fact, it’s not a close decision. It’s just easy if you base the decision on value of the position vs the cost of the #7 pick. DE is a higher value position with the potential to yield the most surplus value. Vea as a DT will have to be a pro bowler sooner and more often than Davenport at DE just to get equal value.
So it’s easy to choose if you are a team that uses a surplus value based model.
If you don’t and believe that it’s not important, than there’s nothing but one opinion vs another with each carrying equal value. The decision is done by a coin flip or any other randomized method to break a tie. The idea is to shift the risk of making a decision away from a individual who may be held accountable to no one because random chance decided the decision.
March 25th, 2018 at 3:14 pm
Duke,
I agree. I’d draft Davenport if faced with that scenario. I think he could develop
Into a terror off the edge, and he could learn from JPP.
March 25th, 2018 at 3:15 pm
Duke that was alot to process. Give us all a few minutes… If nobody responds don’t take it personal were dealing with maxi pads post about GMC it’s exhausting…
March 25th, 2018 at 3:26 pm
This whole idea that we shouldn’t draft a CB because the DB coaches would destroy him is just crap. I’ve seen this tripe too many times repeated. This is a classic D3Kemper overreaction… drawing erroneous conclusions on insufficient evidence. The entire D was busted last year. VH3’s disappointing performance might be all on him… but the coaches put him out in the slot later in the year, and his play improved. Do they get credit for that improvement? Brent Grimes likes it here well enough to re-sign. If the DB coaches were so incompetent, why would he wanna play here? As for the other talent… Ryan Smith was always a project. Last year was his first as year as a CB in the NFL. He has a ways to go… but his lack of success can’t necessarily be pinned on the DB coaches. He was a 4th rounder with raw skills. Maybe he doesn’t have what’s needed to succeed – we don’t fully know yet. Javien Elliot is nobody… The coach has to have enough talent to work with to pass judgement.
I remember a few years ago after Warhop’s first season as OL coach, everyone called for his head because the OL was so bad. Guess what — the next year, with some new talent and a good offensive coordinator, they played well enough for Doug to get 1400+ yards. And Warhop is still here and has generally done a good job with what we have.
So, despite D3Kemper’s ill-considered bloviating about not drafting a CB, I’d say it would be retarded AF to not draft a CB in the premium rounds… Have to say I’m a bit skeptical about D.Ward though.
March 25th, 2018 at 3:27 pm
Davenport is too raw of a prospect to be taken inside the top 10. Especially for a regime that is in a win now situation like this regime seems to be.
If they want a pass rusher at #7 and Chubb is gone, Harold Landry is the next best pass rusher. Idk if I like the fit of Landy in Mike Smith’s defense tho.
Ive seen some people suggest trading back and picking up Derwin James… I think Derwin James is a top 10 lock. A team is going to fall in love with him and Id be shocked if he got past the 49ers at #9
March 25th, 2018 at 3:29 pm
I would love Davenport but not at 7. Also now that they traded for JPP I’m sure they will go secondary if Nelson Chubb and Barkley are gone. Although Davenport or vita vea sounds better than a boring corner or safety pick. Unfortunately we need the corner or safety more so will probably not be excited when they go in that direction. I’d rather have ward than derwin or fitz but what can you do.
Oh! I know! Trade 7 with buffalo get their two first round picks and get Davenport at 12 and a good corner with the 20 something pick!
March 25th, 2018 at 3:31 pm
****************
Pickgrin,
I know what you’re saying, but again, the only reason we’d be trading down would be because one of the top 4 QBs is still on the board at #7 … if that’s the case, a big premium will be paid as a team like Arizona will want that pick even more than we want to trade it.
I believe we can get a 40% increase in value, so our 7th pick being worth 1,500 points means we should get back 2,100 points.
That would be the Cardinals #15 (1,050 points) plus their 1st rounder next year (1,000 points based on the middle of the 1st round) AND #134 (38.5 points), and even that would be slightly shy of a 40% premium.
If the Cardinals don’t want to give up any picks in 2019, we could literally ask for #15 (1,050 pts), #47 (430 pts), #79 (195 pts), #97 (112 pts), #134 (38.5pts) and #152 (30.2 pts) 1,855.7 points, and only receive a 23.7% increase.
The above said, I honestly think we’d get the #15 and at least the Cardinals 1st rounder in 2019 and possibly an additional 4th rounder this year as we still would be receiving just under the 40% premium.
ALL OF THE ABOVE SAID … I expect all 4 QBs to go #1-4 and at least by the 6th pick, so I don’t believe the Bucs will be in a position to trade down, but if they are, and it’s the Cardinals that want to move up, I fully expect at least two 1st rounders coming back.
****************
March 25th, 2018 at 3:38 pm
**********************
STEVEK,
NO, NO, NO, NO, NO to Davenport or Vea.
If we aren’t trading down, that means all 4 QBs are gone, which means that either Saquon, Chubb or Nelson is still on the board for us to draft, period.
HOWEVER, in the unlikely event that those 3 studs are gone and there is not a single team that wants to trade up to #7 to get the last of the top 4 QBs, and we are indeed FORCED to draft someone at #7 other than Saquon, Chubb or Nelson, I would still say, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO to Davenport or Vea.
I’d rank the players I’d draft outside the big 3 as follows:
1. Whichever of the top 4 QBs is left. Draft him, call everyone’s bluff and force a team to trade with you … the Giants did it with Manning and I’d do it here as there is NO WAY both the Bills & Cardinals just sit pat with the garbage QBs they have … one of them will pony up and if they don’t, the Dolphins and Ravens will imho.
2a: Minkah Fitzpatrick
2b: Denzel Ward
3: Derwin James
4. WAY, WAY, WAY behind the above four options … Marcus Davenport
*****************
March 25th, 2018 at 3:41 pm
“1. Whichever of the top 4 QBs is left. Draft him, call everyone’s bluff and force a team to trade with you”
I cant even describe how awful of an idea this is lol
March 25th, 2018 at 3:43 pm
NFL NUT is right again I think ward is on another level than derwin and fitz. As much as we all know we NEED help in the secondary it’s just never a sexy pick
March 25th, 2018 at 3:48 pm
Everyone…needs to go an do their homework on how many times Licht has traded up, versus trading down in the Draft. Then combine that, with now a #7 pick, layered with such an OBVIOUS need at RB, and such an obvious solution in Saquon Barkley. Certainly Licht sees the multi-faceted value in the Bucs obtaining there LeVeon Bell, their Todd Gurley, their Marshall Faulk. Certainly Licht knows that none of the other RB class even comes close to resembling what type of on-field, and off-field (opponent game planning) advantage that Saquon brings any team.
ALSO….for all the accountants, bookkeepers, librarians, census workers, and various other bean counters that read JBF and continue to type here, that continually spew the “if Saquon is there at #7…then take him” stuff……….DO YOU ALL honestly think, that WASHINGTON at #13 churning through 4 RB’s in the last 3 years and a major splash inclination on draft day, AND MIAMI sitting at #11 having a slew of RB’s visit and signed a 34 yr old Gore on a 1 year deal….ARE GOING TO LET THE BUCS just take Saquon at #7, WITHOUT leap-frogging us to take him for their franchise?!?!?!?
You always need to go TAKE what you want, not allow others to take it from you. Especially such a defined solution at such a defined need! Like I said, study Licht’s trading history, think bigger, and think about how others will affect you. Heads out of arses boyz, heads out of arses!
Go Bucs!
March 25th, 2018 at 3:49 pm
**********
JOEYPOPPEMS,
Explain why you feel that way. I know the standard answer would be, “because all teams could just low-ball us and we could be stuck with a guy like Josh Rosen or Josh Allen”, and that’s a valid concern.
However, I think there is about a 1% chance that happens. If the Browns, Giants and Jets all draft a QB as expected, the Bills and Cardinals will get into a bidding war to get that 4th QB. This is precisely why I don’t think one of the top 4 QBs will be on the board at #7 at all … I expect them to go #1-4 and at #6 at the very latest, so this is all sort of irrelevant …
**********
March 25th, 2018 at 3:50 pm
Alan,
Denzel Ward is a wonderful talent and if Licht passed on him to take a project DE in Davenport or a DT like Vea in an insanely deep DT draft, I’d be disgusted.
March 25th, 2018 at 3:52 pm
Me too
March 25th, 2018 at 3:59 pm
Agree with Nut; pickgrin’s post assumes only Arizona will trade with us. Buffalo’s 12 and 22 are the default, a significant premium, but it’s for the last of four franchise quarterbacks. Miami, Washington, San Diego might see “their guy” still there. Even a Jacksonville might decide to enter the fray with two future ones. The auction winner will definitely have to pay a premium, a steep one at that.
I’ve been pushing for a trade-down since way before it becomes popular, but I think all four QBs go before us, which by definition leaves one of the big three on the board.
Finally, as an FSU fan, I think James is overrated and a poor fit for Smith’s defense. Let him move around, improvise and he’ll make some WOW plays. Put him at SS and tell him your job is to cover the tight end or to go free safety and play high in cover 1 or cover 2, he’s not that good.
March 25th, 2018 at 4:02 pm
@NFLNut
Thats the exact concern. Its such a dumb risk that doesn’t need to be made lol. If a QB is there at #7 and they cant get a trade down offer they like then they need to take the BPA on their board. Not try to force a trade lol.
I think Derwin is going to be high on their board. If Chubb, Nelson, and Barkley are gone at #7, Im expecting Derwin James to be a Buc.
March 25th, 2018 at 4:06 pm
I hope your wrong Joey. I don’t want derwin. For me it’s Chubb Nelson Barkley ward or trade down with the bills
March 25th, 2018 at 4:14 pm
Buccaneers’ Scott Smith is the first (sorry, Jenna) to propose this trade down. The consensus is and has been to trade down if the three bantered names arent there. I personally would take Fitzpatrick at seven. I know Buccs fans are gun shy since we took Baron fairly high, but Baron didnt fit today’s nfl as a free safety. Fitzpatrick will be a huge factor back there oatrolling our secondary, and has a knack for the INT. SAFETY isnt the sexy pick, unless you’re an FSU fan in James (he doesnt have Fitzpatrick’s instincts over the deep middle) but it is arguably the second most important position on the field nowadays next to edge rusher………………………………………………
March 25th, 2018 at 4:25 pm
That’s true cant argue that however I personally feel it’s gotta be Chubb Nelson or Barkley or the shut down corner ward for us to feel good about it at 7 we need game changer are you sure Fitz Patrick’s the answer? He could be who knows but we need a stud with that pick.
March 25th, 2018 at 4:50 pm
Ward has one major flaw. He’s 5’10” which would make our top 3 CB’s all 5’10”. Fitzpatrick supposedly has the highest floor but I’m still angry M Barron didn’t work out for us. Everyone knows it’s Barkley, Chubb or Nelson if they fall to us, but if they don’t, I like the way James fits in best. All three work, hence the trade down option.
March 25th, 2018 at 4:51 pm
Dont matter what we do… The roster is set…
SUPER BOWL BOUND!!!
March 25th, 2018 at 5:14 pm
I was with you All the way until you went there with derwin James it concerns me that not even the fans at FSU think he is worth a pick that high
March 25th, 2018 at 5:24 pm
Idk why Buc fans keep using the Bills as an example trade partner. A QB needy team would probably want to jump the Broncos, who could still draft a QB, to make sure they get one of the top 4.
March 25th, 2018 at 5:26 pm
@Alan
I very well could be. Im pretty much alone on this site when it comes to Saquon Barkley opinions, but I would rather see them draft Derwin James than Saquon Barkley.
March 25th, 2018 at 5:36 pm
Considering the Bucs defensive line was worst in NFL last year – couldn’t stop the run and no pass rush, cornerbacks for Bucs, especially Hargreaves, should be given a 1 year mulligan considering they had to support run defense and cover receivers that had all day to run routes and were probably coached to soft coverage due to no pass rush. With this D line, and additional DB in draft, expect better results this year
March 25th, 2018 at 5:47 pm
I’m just sick of losing and being the new browns of the NFL we have suffered for over a decade it’s time to move in another direction
March 25th, 2018 at 5:47 pm
I feel like we need to do something huge this year in the drsft
March 25th, 2018 at 5:49 pm
Those fans that don’t see how good Derwin has been are dilusional
PFF has him as the number 1 safety by a significant margin
He only gave up 44% completion rate and is a freak athlete.
March 25th, 2018 at 6:34 pm
Darin, do you really think Licht is just going to pick solely on need regardless of grade? If we stay at 7 and Chubb is gone, there is virtually zero chance he will draft a DE. There is a big drop off after Chubb, and no DE is graded anywhere near a top 7 pick. Fans always rail about picking BPA, but usually it is where need meets value. This is simply not possible at 7. If we stay put I say get Fitzpatrick because he is a stud and a playmaker. We have a bigger need at CB, RB and O-line IMO but I don’t want them to reach for players. I want them to get the guys with the biggest upside. For the first time ever though I will be happy if they trade back and get another 2nd rounder.
March 25th, 2018 at 6:37 pm
Joey….
I agree the Broncos are the better trade option. I think the key here is the Giants. We need them to take a QB, so the first 3 picks are all QB’s.
March 25th, 2018 at 6:39 pm
When did Scott Smith start calling for a trade down, as I did it on the day they Bills were knocked out of the playoffs and the draft order was set basically and that was months ago …
As for Derwin … he’s awesome but let’s say we take a SS in the 1st and a CB in the 4th … we’d have Derwin with a guy like Holton Hill or JC Jackson (at best) and both of those guys are talents but absolutely “problem children” … however if we went with Denzel Ward in the 1st we could go with SS Terrell Edmunds in the 4th and that dude can ball and is also a freak athlete. Just saying …
March 25th, 2018 at 7:13 pm
How is Derwin James a “problem child”?
March 25th, 2018 at 7:15 pm
Lets not forget, the trade back doesnt need to happen in the 1st round. They could trade back in the 2nd and possibly pick up a 3rd round pick.
March 25th, 2018 at 7:20 pm
JOEY,
Holton Hill and JC Jackson are the “problem children”, not Derwin.
Also, I don’t think anyone cares about a trade down in the later rounds … it’s all about the king’s ransom trading out of the #7 could bring.
Also, if we don’t get Saquon at #7, we’ll use that 2nd rounder on a RB imho, as ALL the top notch ones will be gone by the time our 3rd round pick rolls around I think.
March 25th, 2018 at 7:28 pm
When did Scott Smith start calling for a trade down, as I did it on the day they Bills were knocked out of the playoffs and the draft order was set basically and that was months ago…
As for Derwin … he’s awesome but let’s say we take a SS in the 1st and a CB in the 4th … we’d have Derwin with a guy like Holton Hill or JC Jackson (at best) and both of those guys are talents but absolutely “problem children” … however if we went with Denzel Ward in the 1st we could go with SS Terrell Edmunds in the 4th and that dude can ball and is also a freak athlete. Just saying …
———————————-
Scott had an article up on Buccaneers.com about the same possibility of the Cards trading their 15 and more to the Buccs to move-up. Jenna is just echoing Scott Smith on Buccaneers’ site. http://www.buccaneers.com/news/article-smith/Buccaneerscom-Mock-Draft-20/b382b512-0466-4e9a-84e3-36c0a5736dcf
As far as a trade down, it became apparent after the Buccs slid to seven in the week 17 finale that they likely might not land chubb or barkley, let alone Nelson. So a trade down would not be surprising. I wanted to win the Saints game, but it more than likely cost them one of those three.
I like Dervin James..as more of a strong safety (which you can find later in the draft) than free. He’s got great size and athleticism, but his game has several flaws and hes only a year removed from major knee surgery. Personally, I like Fitzpatrick right out of the box…and hes much better at the free safety spot than James who is often slower to react to plays. Fitz would definitely be a concern to opposing qbs at all times, and again, free safety is very key in today’s nfl as they have to be able to roam sideline to sideline in the secondary..where as corners only typically have to play quarters covereage, unless in man.
March 25th, 2018 at 7:34 pm
^ Thanks for the clarification … I was calling for the trade down 2 months before anyone else I know of … back then CBS Sports has Mason Rudolph mocked as the #1 overall pick and a bunch of people had Lamar Jackson mocked in the top 5 … what a joke.
I think the Bills are the ideal trading partner but they have enough juice to get all the way up to #2 if they want … if the Giants want a QB at #2, I think the Browns trade the #4 overall to the Bills … the Broncos and Colts could both trade down with the Bills as well … that is the primary reason I think all 4 of the top QBs will be gone by the time the Bucs pick rolls around.
March 25th, 2018 at 7:35 pm
When people type more than a paragraph it’s just way too much to read we need to think about shortening things here. We are not writing a book
March 25th, 2018 at 7:39 pm
^ Also, I 2nd the Minkah over Derwin statement … Derwin’s a bad boy and a physical freak but Minkah is like having a coach on the field, much more ready to lead a defense and even more versatile than Derwin is as Minkah could start at #1 CB, #2 CB, Nickel, FS, SS … or OLB in a pinch. I don’t think Derwin could be a #1 or #2 CB though he could play nickel.
March 25th, 2018 at 7:52 pm
Trading down would be a tough pill to swallow at this point since the Bucs have no addressed their need for a #2 corner and at #7 the Bucs should expect to have either Fitz or Ward available to select from – and both are supposed to be early starters. There is quite the drop off from there in terms of talent so I think the Bucs would need a large haul to consider moving at this point – but come draft day who knows, depending on how the board plays out maybe they get that huge offer.
March 25th, 2018 at 7:58 pm
No problem, NN….check this analysis out on Samuel Gold’s channel of James….just poort tackling, pursuit angles, slow to react, and sometimes taking plays off?! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGJgr3J7750
Then there is fitz, as you know, and I like the pick (without trading down) better each passing day… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHmdoPB3SN4&t=456s
March 25th, 2018 at 8:04 pm
RODMUNCH,
Would you be in favor of trading the #7 to the Bills for #12, #22 and #96.
Rather than Ward or Derwin we could get Derwin + Joshua Jackson + Rashaad Penny and fill three “needs” with talented players.
March 25th, 2018 at 8:04 pm
What did PFF say about Derwin James:
‘Florida State’s Derwin James is the star of the class as he’s a defensive game-changer’
March 25th, 2018 at 8:17 pm
The Coroner is correct. Trading down is a fool’s game. Get the best player you can: Derwin James. Licht can’t be trusted to draft anything but a sure thing with so many second round busts plus Hargreaves.
March 25th, 2018 at 8:27 pm
The most logical senario for the Giants, if they want Nelson, is to trade back to 4 with the Browns. NY is not taking a Guard at 2 when they can swing a deal with Cleveland, who I’m sure would love to move up to 2 to secure a QB at 1 and Barkley at 2. The Jets are taking a QB, so this makes perfect sense for the Giants. This senario only works if NY doesn’t want a QB or Barkley. I really think that the Giants will end up selecting a QB or Barkley at 2. This makes the most sense. I think the Draft goes QB, RB, QB, QB, G, DE and we’re left with a tough decision.
March 25th, 2018 at 8:29 pm
I would try to trade back at that point, but if I couldn’t, I’d take Ward. He’d be the best player at the position of our greatest need, and no, he’s nothing like VHIII.
March 25th, 2018 at 9:02 pm
I do like CB Ward but not sure if at #7, I wouldn’t be mad though.
March 25th, 2018 at 11:05 pm
******************
BUCCANEERIC75,
I highly, highly, highly doubt the Browns trade UP from #4 to #2 to draft a RB … even one as talented as Saquon.
To me, the Giants refused to trade with the Jets because they plan on taking a QB at #2 … I think the Browns should be the team to trade with the Bills … Saquon’s amazing but he’s not worth 4 players and that’s what the Browns could get from the Bills.
**********************
March 25th, 2018 at 11:11 pm
Giants owner Mara recently said the team would listen to trade offers for OBJ: http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/22910290/john-mara-new-york-giants-tired-being-asked-odell-beckham-jr-behavior
If I’m the Giants GM, I’d drafting a QB at #2 and trading OBJ and Manning for the best deals available and building for the future. In fact, they should have traded Eli BEFORE free agency started … the Jaguars, Broncos, Bills, Cardinals, etc., all would likely have been interested.
OBJ, even with his “issues” would be in high demand and I could see the Bears offering the #8 overall at least and the 49’ers offering the #9 overall at least.
March 25th, 2018 at 11:36 pm
Currently we are in every position in the world to draft Derwin James at #7. You don’t wanna see this team trade down and let someone else get him like the Ravens or Chargers. Nelson, Chubb, and Barkley will be gone by the time we pick. Look on the bright side we draft James that high surely another talent will fall to the second round like an offensive lineman. I personally like what Licht does in the draft with the offensive line. He’s gotten guys like Kevin Pamphile, Ali Marpet,and D.Smith in the draft. I really think Licht and the coaches are preparing to move D.Smith to guard once OTA mini camps start because of the uncertainty of what they can out the draft at offensive line. If they don’t trade which I don’t think we should or are personally doesn’t sound good to do at all remember this team doesn’t necessarily need a surplus of draft picks this year because through my projections they are going to be spending in the next two offseason anyway wether Licht and Koetter are here or not. So let’s play it safe and draft Best player available for position of need and Derwin James would be that guy at #7. James is a real Ball hawk that can play in our 4-3 scheme. I think Fitzpatrick wouldn’t be bad either but Derwin James would clearly come here and play with more passion than Fitzpatrick would be willing to. We could give Justin Evans a more natural fit as a Free Safety and put Derwin James at Strong Safety or vice versa, but with Fitzpatrick he’s more of a one way style player and he seems fit more 3-4 style defense where he would have more room to maneuver. No matter how you put it though Joe: Barkley, Chubb, and Nelson will be gone and no one is trading up with the Bucs either so let’s get a native someone who’s gonna bring some passion and results.
March 25th, 2018 at 11:39 pm
Yes Derwin James is a big physical specimen but he is absolutely no playmaker with only two interceptions all of 2017 and only 11 passes defended and was hurt all but two games in 2016 so there is a clear durability issue with him and there is no way we should waste a 7th pick on James. If the big 3 aren’t available at 7, trade down with Buffalo. Grab G Hernandez at 12 and Penny with the other first pick. Yes our coaching is no good at developing a top CB, but you already have a veteran playmaker, Tandy, who was a Star CB at WVa., who needs to be moved there now, and pick a good Strong Safety with your 2d pick. Then in the 4th round get Miami Hurricane’s DE Thomas. At that point you have fixed our trenches on both sides of the ball and you have a great RB to give us a great running game which will also help in the end zone. Get a backup Tackle to develop with the 5th pick since Licht erred by letting Pamphile get away. In the first sixth round pick take Pinero to develop as your Place Kicker of the future, and with the last 6th pick and the seventh pick to draft fast Special Team Specialists, unless the small school DT that Licht Felt has good promise but hurt his hand and did not play in the East West Shrine game drops this low and we can pick him up to develop to one day play the three technique to replace McCoy when he retires.
March 25th, 2018 at 11:51 pm
*********************
Jason Mclaurin Says:
March 25th, 2018 at 11:36 pm
No matter how you put it though Joe: Barkley, Chubb, and Nelson will be gone and no one is trading up with the Bucs either so let’s get a native someone who’s gonna bring some passion and results.
—————————————
UM, NO, JUST NO. If Chubb, Nelson and Saquon are all off the board by the time our pick at #7 rolls around, that will mean that one of the top four QBs is still on the board, which means there will likely be a bidding war to get that pick and we should ABSOLUTELY TRADE DOWN!
***********************
March 25th, 2018 at 11:54 pm
NFLNut – I don’t foresee any possibility that the Bills would give up two 1st and a 3rd to move up 5 spots, but yeah, if that offer came up the Bucs should absolutely take it. I think a more likely trade would be the Bucs giving up their 1st and perhaps a 4th to get to the two 1st’s from the Bills. But who knows, if the board falls perfectly and the Bills desperately want someone and there is a huge bidding war, then maybe, but I seriously don’t think anyone is giving up that much to move from 12 to 7, in particular when the teams behind the Bucs aren’t drafting a QB either – so a bidding war would be the only way it happens.
March 26th, 2018 at 12:07 am
***************************
^ RODMUNCH,
If the Bills gave up the picks I mentioned, they would only be paying the same premium the Jets already paid the Colts … the market has been set and Buffalo is DESPERATE to land a franchise QB … I actually think they’ll move up even higher than #7 and give up even more, but if they can’t and one of the top 4 QBs is still on the board at #7, I have no real doubt at all they will pay that price to trade up with Tampa.
Also, I don’t even think there needs to be a “bidding war”. As I said, the market has already been set by the Jets and the Bills will need to pay the same price imho.
In regards to the teams after the Bucs not needing a QB, you’re right that the #8-10 teams don’t, but the #11 does and that team (Miami) has a higher pick to offer than the Bills … the Cardinals do as well and have the #15 pick.
Again, I think this is all sort of irrelevant as I do believe all four QBs will be gone by pick #6 at the latest, but it’s still fun to think and chat about.
****************************
March 26th, 2018 at 12:24 am
NFLNut – The Jets gave up the 1st and three 2nd’s, but those 2nd’s were over the next 3 years, not all in the same year, so their value would be much lower than all those picks in the same year. If there is no bidding war then the Bills just offer a slightly lesser deal to the Bears and 49ers, they only have to get in front of Miami and they’d have 3 chances so that drives the cost down if no one is trying to also jump up. I just think it’s very very unlikely they’d give up two 1st’s and then some. We shall know soon enough, but if Licht can extort that type of deal then fantastic. At the same time I’d still be perfectly fine with sitting at #7 and getting Ward who can start next year and hopefully be ready to be the top corner with-in the next couple of years when Grimes is ready to retire. If the Bucs dropped to #12 I think Davenport would be the pick, someone who very much has the same type of freak athletic ability JPP had coming out of the draft – we know how much the Bucs like to stack guys and that one makes sense and drafting Davenport at #12 makes a lot more sense than #7 if he’s still there. I’m not as sold on Derwin James as you are, I don’t think he’s Ramsey since if he was he’d be going as high as Ramsey did, but if Davenport was gone then he’d probably be my pick – although in fairness I haven’t looked at who else might still be there at that point except from a DB standpoint it’s Ward, Fitz and James and then a big drop-off from there from what I’ve read/seen so far.
March 26th, 2018 at 12:24 am
I think are best bet would be to trade down at this point and collect more pics. I would also like to see us draft Rashaad Penny. I believe he will be one of the best all around backs in the NFL. Bold but I said it.
March 26th, 2018 at 12:58 am
***************
RODMUNCH,
Thanks for the reply; I always enjoy your posts.
I do understand your point of view, and you’re right, we’ll see what happens … I don’t think either of us expects one of the top 4 QBs to still be on the board at #7 anyways.
Also … I’m not all that big on Derwin and didn’t mean to give that impression … I’d take Ward and Minkah ahead of him, I just could see the Bucs taking him at #7. As for there being a big drop-off … I agree, though Joshua Jackson has elite ball skills and could turn into a Talib type pro …
I also agree that Davenport would be the likely pick at #12, unless Derwin was still on the board … I currently have Derwin going to the Redskins or Packers at #13 or #14 …
Have a great night; I need sleep!
***************
March 26th, 2018 at 1:26 am
The Bucs simply need to fill too many holes.- Amen! Barring another trade, we are already screwed at CB, precisely for the reason, Joe mentioned.
March 26th, 2018 at 4:03 am
NFLNut – Same thing with you, I enjoy your posts even if I don’t agree, I appreciate people that talk and debate and throw out ideas. If the Bucs got two 1st then, depending on the board obviously, I’d personally try to go DB and DB, and probably DB in the 2nd as well – be that 2 corners and safety or all three corners. Davenport has the ability to be someone down the line, but I doubt he’d do much this year, so if Licht did pick him that would be interesting since it tells me Licht doesn’t actually think he’s going to get fired and will get more time – if he has to win this year then he’s got to get some corners, multipe corners, because otherwise he’s putting his faith into VH3 rebounding (which I think he will, I think) and God forbid Ryan Smith.
March 26th, 2018 at 8:46 am
NFLNut:
I completely agree with you that 4 Qb’s will be selected in the first 6 picks, which should give the Bucs the option to either select Chubb, Barkley or Nelson.
However, I disagree with you on Derwin James. Also, his two interceptions he had last year were the same amount that Denzel Ward had. He also had more pass break ups, significantly more tackles, sacks, tackle for loss and caused fumbles than Ward.
One NFC Scout had the following to say about Derwin:
He is going to be the dude in any locker room he ends up in. That’s his makeup. Physically, he’s probably more talented than Jamal Adams but Adams was more consistent as a player. Derwin is still learning so he has a sky-high projection if his play can catch up to the talent.” — NFC Scouting Director
March 26th, 2018 at 11:14 am
****************
RODMUNCH,
Thanks for the kind words. I agree we need a massive influx of talent in the defensive backfield … so it shocks me that Joe seems to be against drafting DB’s simply because Ryan Smith and Vernon Hargreaves have not developed fast enough … I maintain that Minkah doesn’t need development and while Ward may, he still has a world of talent to work with.
WAUSA,
We see eye to eye on the “Saquon, Chubb, Nelson or trade down” thing it seems, so that’s great.
However, your comments about Derwin are a little confusing. Derwin is a hybrid S/CB/LB and flies all over the field making plays … Denzel Ward was a shutdown #1 CB only and hardly ever got thrown at … as such Derwin will always have more tackles, sacks, tackles for loss and forced fumbles than Ward. Comparing the two would be like comparing Kevin Byard and Patrick Peterson … Byard may put up bigger numbers but I’d take Peterson 100% of the time as a #1 CB is infinitely more valuable than a team’s top safety. Just my two cents.
As for the Scouts take … I agree and I have little doubt Jameis and Derwin would be the offensive and defensive leaders for years to come, so I would certainly draft Derwin ahead of Davenport or Vea and wouldn’t be too upset if we took him ahead of Ward or Minkah though I think Ward plays the far more valuable position and that Minkah is also a hybrid jack-of-all-trades and consummate professional that could be the leader of the defense for a decade.
****************