“Betting On The Come”
March 20th, 2018
High stakes craps.
Nothing like some dice talk (not, not that Dice] as tornado warnings pop up all across the Tampa Bay area on this gloomy Tuesday.
And speaking of gloomy, there is the Bucs defense, specifically the miserable pass rush. Joe just cannot imagine the Bucs ignoring an edge rusher in this draft. Then again, it has been 12 years since the Bucs had a double-digit edge rusher. So, yeah, anything could happen.
A Bucs edge rush was a recent topic of conversation on “Late Hits” co-hosted by Alex Marvez and Gil Brandt heard exclusively on SiriusXM NFL Radio.
Marvez and Brandt, the latter the former architect of the 1960-70s Cowboys dynasties, wondered aloud if Bradley Chubb is not available to the Bucs at No. 7, would it be a reach to grab University of Texas-San Antonio beast Marcus Davenport at the same draft slot?
Brandt didn’t think so because the Bucs are that desperate. Brandt, however, openly admitted that Bucs AC/DC-loving general manager Jason Licht is painted into a corner.
Alex Marvez: If you look at Jason Licht and Dirk Koetter, Jason is going into the final year of his contract, Dirk is nearing the end of his deal. They need to win some games. Sitting there at No. 7, they need help in the secondary. They need help in the pass rush. That’s why I am wondering if there is someone at No. 7 that can help them there? Really, it’s hurting right now when you look at the Bucs.
Gil Brandt: A guy by the name of [Marcus] Davenport weighed 264 pounds and he ran a 4.6 [at his Pro Day] I believe. But he is green. Do you take a green pass rusher there? I really believe this guy is going to be good. I believe he is going to be a very good player. Boy, he was a wide receiver in high school and weight 198 pounds. You are betting on the come, is what you are doing [drafting Davenport], and if you are betting on the come in the last year of your contract, boy, that is tough. It wouldn’t shock me [if Davenport is selected by the Bucs at No. 7].
Joe is of the mind that if Chubb is not there at No. 7, then trade the hell down and get Davenport later unless Licht believes Davenport is a can’t-miss. It’s not like this Quenton Nelson is the only good guard in the draft. By trading down, the Bucs, in theory, could draft Davenport, Isaiah Wynn or Will Hernandez at guard and perhaps get Sony Michel at running back.
Drafting Davenport at No. 7, that would be a helluva roll of the dice by Licht, who has proven to be a gambler in the draft.
Be there for Thursday’s Round 1. Arrive early. Return for Rounds 2 and 3 the following day.
March 20th, 2018 at 4:06 pm
If they were taking a pass rusher at #7 and Chubb was gone, Harold Landry is the 2nd best pass rusher in this draft imo.
Idk if Licht is in a position to bet on upside in a guy like Davenport. If they were to pick him it would make me wonder if they have a little more of a leash than we think.
March 20th, 2018 at 4:06 pm
Does anybody know how long it’s been since we’ve had a 10 sack pass rusher?
I can’t seem to remember.
March 20th, 2018 at 4:10 pm
When have the Bucs rolled the dice and won? Antonio Bryant….maybe??
March 20th, 2018 at 4:10 pm
When was the last time the Bucs rolled the dice and won? Antonio Bryant….maybe??
March 20th, 2018 at 4:12 pm
Davenport is a throw back Cowboy pick. They, along with the big bad Steelers used to dip into the D2 weeds and pick a lot of winners. Not surprised Gil has the feeling that this kid will be a star. No way we pick him at 7 though when we can trade down and probably get him and another pick or two in the early rounds.
March 20th, 2018 at 4:12 pm
Why would you really pass on Quenton Nelson and go after Davenport in a reach of need instead of a “once-in-a-generation” lineman?
March 20th, 2018 at 4:13 pm
It doesn’t matter, he will have plenty of time to gamble next year while he is unemployed.
I hope!
March 20th, 2018 at 4:13 pm
It don’t matter if they draft Bradley Chubb or Marcus Davenport. I still have no confidence in the Bucs staff in developing them.
March 20th, 2018 at 4:15 pm
would you rather have the second best pash rusher or the number one kicker?
March 20th, 2018 at 4:17 pm
Don’t trade up. Don’t reach based on need.
We know the Aguayo trade-up disaster.
Little remembered is the 2007 reach at No. 4 for DE Gaines Adams when studs like Adrian Peterson and Darrelle Revis were available.
Draft mistakes like 2007 are why the Bucs have been so bad after the SB win.
March 20th, 2018 at 4:19 pm
I am just not a Chubb crazy….not at 7
March 20th, 2018 at 4:25 pm
Gil brandt (The godfather)knows football!I have a lot of respect for his football knowlege.no one knows football like Mr brandt!
March 20th, 2018 at 4:29 pm
Jameis!
March 20th, 2018 at 4:39 pm
^^^Oh Gawd Joe !……if Jamesi can’t hit the deep ball and WR’s in stride this year …he’ll be a bust for a 1st over all…stats are for losers
March 20th, 2018 at 4:40 pm
Denzel ward. (The next lattimore)
We have nothing at db either. May be worse then DE now.
Grimes gone In a year Ryan smith and Hargreaves. Please.
March 20th, 2018 at 4:41 pm
We couldn’t stop 3rd and 20 last year
March 20th, 2018 at 4:46 pm
It’s not calculus guys. If four QBs are taken, then Chubb, Nelson or Barkley have to be there at 7. If only three QBs are taken, then Chubb, Nelson or Barkley might be off as well. In that case a Darnold or Mayfield (with Allen or Rosen almost surely gone) is there and every team from 11-15 is going to be sitting there desperate to move up.
We’ve seen king’s ransoms given to move from 6 to 3. If you were Arizona and you liked QB4 (Mayfield, Darnold, whoever) more than the other guys to start with, and you know a couple of other teams in 11-15 are QB hunting, what would you give up to get your future franchise QB?
March 20th, 2018 at 4:46 pm
So Duke Ejiofor looks like a 4-3 DE that can rush the passer that we could probably get in like round 4 at this point.
Coming off shoulder surgery (i know lol) but still – had tons of production and can hold up in the run and rush the passer at 6’4 270. He should be ready for training camp.
Really liking the idea of R1-R3 being DE/LG/RB in some order; then grabbing another DE R4 or R5; plus a DT. 3 new draft picks on the D-line with 2 being pass rushers and 1 being a disruptive pass rushing type DT – or one with the potential to become that.
March 20th, 2018 at 4:46 pm
Never draft by need. Because a need becomes a strength in a blink of an eye. Always best available. If bucs traded for Quinn and Bennett would we really be talking about need at d end? No. But u take oj Howard every time
March 20th, 2018 at 4:47 pm
Joe,
Quentin Nelson is an absolute stud. You draft that guy if he’s there at 7. No brainer!
March 20th, 2018 at 4:54 pm
I agree with SteveK, big on Nelson, can’t go wrong, BPA, solidify at least one side of the trench.
March 20th, 2018 at 4:56 pm
Joe…you think one winning season is a pay off, okay. When he grows up and I hope that comes with being a new father, maybe we’ll see this massive star we all hoped for.
March 20th, 2018 at 5:01 pm
I like Davenport. Wouldn’t be upset if we selected him. And I do believe Buckner can groom this guy. Might not produce 10 sacks his first year, but he’ll still be better than anyone else we have
March 20th, 2018 at 5:03 pm
@jjones yea I’m hoping the same thing. Fatherhood changes a man
March 20th, 2018 at 5:05 pm
Read the post because of the Fallout image.
March 20th, 2018 at 5:11 pm
Am I the only one who thinks Chubb, Nelson, or trade down? Saquon Barkley is a luxury pick at #7, and we can’t afford luxury. Running backs don’t have a good shelf life, have less of an impact in modern NFL, and good ones are still available in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. I’d be just as happy with Guice, Michel, Chubb, or Jones, and at least one of those guys will be around at our pick in the 2nd. We may even be able to get one of them later in the 2nd in a trade scenario. BUILD THE TRENCHES
March 20th, 2018 at 5:12 pm
Hey Altered just asking but aren’t the number of wins and losses stats?
March 20th, 2018 at 5:14 pm
If so then I guess since stats are for losers and that is all you talk about then that makes you a …..?
March 20th, 2018 at 5:19 pm
People on the radio can’t project trading up…instead? Good gracious.
Go Bucs!
March 20th, 2018 at 5:25 pm
nolemutt….if Jameis can not hit the deep ball and his WR’s in stride allowing for YAC’s….he is a BUST !….I watched every playoff game with that criteria in mind….all top NFL QB’s can hit deep ball and their WR’s in stride….simple as that and you know it….I sincerely hope some how Jameis can do it….but if he has not be able to do it now…he never will…just not part of his skill set…too bad because it is imperative
March 20th, 2018 at 5:31 pm
Then saints game…..
March 20th, 2018 at 5:33 pm
Remember great offenses Like Warner and the rams, Brady and Pats and Manning and the colts …Make defenses look very good! We are not that far away! Go Bucs!
March 20th, 2018 at 5:34 pm
We don’t have a pass rush……it’s been 12 years since a double digit sack player……I didn’t know that….
As for Davenport at 7……no way…..take the best player of need…..could be either Nelson, Chubb, Minkah, Barkley…..even Ward would be a better pick….there is no margin for error with this pick, period.
March 20th, 2018 at 5:34 pm
AlteredEgo,
I think it’s more of a development problem. He hasn’t improved as a QB during his 3 years in Tampa. These other teams Rams, Eagles, Vikings, etc..they actually has a NFL QB coach in place. Mike Bajakian is not a qualified QB coach.
March 20th, 2018 at 5:34 pm
The only good deep pass all year that screwed us.
March 20th, 2018 at 5:38 pm
We have to face the fact that Jameis is likely to never be an upper level NFL quarterback. If he doesn’t turn it around this season, we need to start over fresh.
March 20th, 2018 at 5:38 pm
Nice to see Pip-Boy make an appearance on JBF 👌
Only the millennials will know who the character in this articles’ photo is.
March 20th, 2018 at 5:39 pm
Lake I hope that is the case…but if you grow up as a natural born QB…you live to deliver DARTS !…it comes natural and second nature…you throw to the spot and the crowd goes wild….
March 20th, 2018 at 5:39 pm
@Lakeland, I agree about the development! Koetter is not a QB whisperer, he was more of a dad type figure for Winston but that’s over. Jameis is a “hope for the best, expect the worst” player for me now.
March 20th, 2018 at 5:41 pm
He may have been a good QB coach at Scared Heart, Central Michigan, Delbarton School. But he’s not a NFL QB coach.
March 20th, 2018 at 5:41 pm
If you think a first round talent is the best one for the team, then it does not matter where in the first round you take him. Sure…getting extra picks is great, but you actually need a trade partner for that.
If we stay at 7, I don’t care if they reach a little bit. Brandt said it himself:
“I really believe this guy is going to be good. I believe he is going to be a very good player.”
If he is going to be that good…take him. Period.
March 20th, 2018 at 5:43 pm
Buc Bonzai….I’m in that school too !
March 20th, 2018 at 5:45 pm
Joe Says
“When have the Bucs rolled the dice and won?
Jameis!”
You nailed it, Joe…but the Jameis haters will still argue.
March 20th, 2018 at 5:45 pm
**Sacred Heart**
March 20th, 2018 at 5:47 pm
Joe the craps context isn’t apropos. A poker one would work better; betting on the come would be to bet or raise all in on a flush or straight draw. In Holdem you almost always have the worst of it if you get called. In Omaha kk77 has quite a bit the worst of it versus gj87 on a k-10-7 flop.
March 20th, 2018 at 5:48 pm
Defensive Line guys I Like in this Draft:
• DE Bradley Chubb
• DT Vita Vea
• DE Marcus Davenport
• DT Da’Ron Payne
• DE Harold Landry
• DE Sam Hubbard
• DT/DE Breeland Speaks
• DE Ogbonnia Okoronkwo
• DT B.J. Hill
March 20th, 2018 at 5:54 pm
https://www.sbnation.com/2018/3/20/17089168/2018-nfl-draft-marcus-davenport-breakdown-scouting-report
Steve White just put this out. Basically says Davenport is actually more refined than Clowney was coming out and has some moves already; although most of those moves are just bull rushing OTs and knocking them out of the way long arm style with his athleticism + strength.
He struggled like day 1 of the Senior Bowl but was dominating by the end of it.
If Nelson/Chubb/Barkley are gone and we can’t trade down I would be fine with rolling the dice on Davenport. His athleticism alone should allow him to annoy OTs right off teh bat but he has the ceiling to be the best DE in the class
March 20th, 2018 at 5:54 pm
I know the Bucs haven’t been very good for almost a decade, but to see these comments by fans aka couch experts anout missing out on all these great FAs is hilarious!!!! I think they learned a lesson after overpaying for FAs that didn’t pan out ?? I know this might come off bias, but I would bet the farm Minkah is coming to Tampa to play CB alongside Grimes. He’s elite and will be a superstar for the next 10 years, but Chubb and Nelson won’t be there at number 7 and totally ok with it. Still get a stud RB in the second round and maybe find a Gem in the late rounds at CB to add depth. Tampa isn’t the destination players want to go to unless get hurt and retire ? Shocked they added Jensen( HUGE ) and also 3 defensive players to rotate that I think are definitely better then what Ayers or McDonald would bring. I do agree that it’s time to maybe entertain offers for an aging McCoy, but what’s scares me is when JW3 ( so overrated ) gets suspended and we just have Fitz and the other guy ? Malcom must be looking down sick at what his sons did to a promising franchise !!! The Glazer boys should sell the team because they care more about British football!!! I will always root for the team, but thankfully I went back to the 90s mindset and lessoned my expectations when it comes to the Pewter and Red.., Go Bolts and look at what a real owner and GM can do when they care about the fans and winning !!! Stanley2018
March 20th, 2018 at 5:58 pm
All that matters is that we take Ricky Aguayo in the 2d round.
March 20th, 2018 at 5:58 pm
Should be qj98
March 20th, 2018 at 6:02 pm
Lord Corn…Steve White knows his sheet….I mentioned Davenport a few days back and someone flipped out….IMO…we ..well the JBF posters…better start dealing in reality and focus on the names most likely to be left on the board…not the obvious names most probably out of reach and already gone when the Bucs are on the clock….
March 20th, 2018 at 6:06 pm
Everyone who thinks they are cute mentioning Aguayo and the draft should be put in permanent moderation
March 20th, 2018 at 6:09 pm
Imo take James at 7 unless Nelson is on the board. James will be the leader of our defense Captain by year two, him and Kwon will bring the nasty demeanor we need in Tampa.
March 20th, 2018 at 6:09 pm
@Bonzai………..I’m not a Jameis hater, I’m an objective thinker. I wasn’t sold on Jameis originally, I wanted Mariotta but I gave him the benefit of the doubt. I found out after alot of research that most of his off field incidents were blow way out of proportion too. All that being said he’s been pretty disappointing, doesn’t mean he still can’t be great. If someone knocks him, they’ve got the right to. Everytime Winston winds up to make a throw now I cringe because I’m waiting for an interception, it sucks.
March 20th, 2018 at 6:18 pm
I believe Jameis wasn’t as gamble. He is a no brainier. Mariota is Garbage
March 20th, 2018 at 6:18 pm
Derwin James will be my pick..I wouldn’t care who’s on the board.
March 20th, 2018 at 6:21 pm
Lake…Ward is not too shabby….a bit small but a tough tough football player…crazy fast too
March 20th, 2018 at 6:22 pm
I like Denzel Ward…I think he’s the best CB in the draft
March 20th, 2018 at 6:33 pm
69 touchdowns his first three seasons.
Has hit plenty of people in stride.
March 20th, 2018 at 6:40 pm
The Browns and take Barkley 1st and Nelson @ 4……then easily trade back into the 1st round for a QB…….now put that in you pipe and shmoke it !
March 20th, 2018 at 6:40 pm
can take ^^
March 20th, 2018 at 6:42 pm
I would like to trade back a couple times and get Taven Bryan around #20. Better immediate impact player than Davenport and I think a better career player as well.
March 20th, 2018 at 6:48 pm
The Quentin Nelson Love here is Crazy!!!
HE IS A GUARD
Guards dont win or lose games, if they are just average.
Pass rushing Defensive ends are unique talents, and hard to find
Left Tackles are critical, and rare to find
But Guards?? Are you kidding me?
Their responsibilities in a football game are not condusive to making Game effecting plays. An Average Guard will impact the game almost as much as a “generational” guard
If Offensive line is you priority- then you draft Nelson. Only then
Offensive line is Waaaay down on our priority list
When your defense is ranked dead last in the league.
You have the lowest sack total in the entire league
Your critical need is pretty damn obvious!!
You can draft two” generational” guards, it wont matter.
They will be sitting on the bench, watching Cam Newton, Matt Ryan, and Drew
Breez laugh their way up and down the field.
This team is desperate for a DEFENSIVE END, first and foremost
Not an inconsequencial Guard!
Its not that complicated
March 20th, 2018 at 6:52 pm
Fallout picture. Awsome joe’s
March 20th, 2018 at 6:53 pm
2016 Winston was the 6th best deep ball thrower in the nfl. Last season the injury and getting adjusted the speed of Djax was a anomaly. https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2713730-nfl-1000-ranking-the-best-deep-throwers.amp.html
March 20th, 2018 at 6:55 pm
If Bradley Chubb, Nelson and Barkley were there for the bucs you’d take Chubb as best player available according to needs. The bucs have many needs so if Chubb Barkley and Nelson are gone you take best player available if you can or can’t trade down. If Davenport is not your guy at 7 why the hell would he be your guy at say 12? The only reason you trade down is for more picks and the best guy on the board isn’t much better than the guys within those next 5 spots.
I was of the mindset they need to trade down for more picks but if I’m Licht and I want to keep my job I’m heading up to get a guy who is a can’t miss over a guy that is “raw” and could take years to develop aka Noah Spence.
Licht doesn’t have years of he drafts a first round guy the had a vh3 like impact just because he wanted more picks. He’s going to have to get a bonafide stud and that would be Nelson or Chubb I’d never draft Barkley this high with all these holes on defense
March 20th, 2018 at 6:57 pm
@Capt Tim.
Great offensive lines can elevate the level of success for the entire time. Gives the QB protection, gives Targets down field extra time to get open, longer developing plays become more successful, boosts the run game by opening up holes, which in turn helps you win the time of possession battle, and keeps your defense fresh.
Quenton Nelson has all of the talent and skill necessary to be an elite Guard in this league. At this point, I feel very confident in saying his floor is probably around the level of Logan Mankins in his prime, and his ceiling is that of Larry Allen.
If he is there, you take him.
March 20th, 2018 at 6:59 pm
And btw, I’m pretty sure in this day and age, Interior offensive lineman are just as valuable as tackles, considering the top LT and the top Guard in the 2018 crop of free agency got virtually the same kind of money.
March 20th, 2018 at 7:01 pm
“…elevate the level of success for the entire *team.*…”
March 20th, 2018 at 7:04 pm
Gambelero:
Dice references based on Brandt’s quote. Did a Google search on the quote and everything came up craps.
March 20th, 2018 at 7:06 pm
Drafting Barkley at No. 7 would be a luxury pick, eh?
Who are all the Pro Bowl RBs on the Bucs roster?
March 20th, 2018 at 7:07 pm
If Barkley, Chubb, and Nelson are off the board take Derwin James at 7…
CB Mike Hughes in 2nd and maybe Key or Ejiofor in the 3rd…
March 20th, 2018 at 7:11 pm
Davenport over James at 7! Fitzpatrick would be nice or ward
March 20th, 2018 at 7:12 pm
The Bucs need several good players. Trading down makes sense and trying to get a few 2’nd round pics sounds good to me. It also improves your odds instead of drafting a maybe great player high and be boom or bust.
March 20th, 2018 at 7:18 pm
It seems like our best defenders always come in the 2’nd and 3’rd rounds. That’s where I want to be with numerous picks. I’d still trade GMC before the draft and load up picks. The Bucs will be fine without Gerald. He’s always hurt and I’d rebuild the whole line. Another injury plagued year from 30 yr old fat boy will diminish his value on the market considerably. I bet B.B. would trade for GMC in a heartbeat but I’d try to do a deal with the Browns.
March 20th, 2018 at 7:20 pm
@Stanglassman….there’s a lot in that article that contradicts most, I believe, you might be trying to convey. First he was forcing all those throws to Evans, that’s a fact. 2nd he throws to a spot, he’s not great at hitting people in stride. 3rd Djax was supposed to be his savior, our savior, instead he was again throwing to a spot, not in stride. He literally worked out with Djax well before camp and in camp and still couldnt connect. I do understand he had shoulder issues last year and yes you have to take that into account but that didnt occur until game 5. Hes just not consistent at the deep ball. Again almost all of those deep balls were delivered to Evans and over half of them were jump balls, not accurate passes.
March 20th, 2018 at 7:22 pm
Joe: You’re more right than I am when you’re writing for non-gamblers and gamblers alike. I should have prefaced that I was writing from a hard core gamblers perspective.
March 20th, 2018 at 7:28 pm
*****************
SAY IT WITH ME EVERYONE:
SAQUON, CHUBB OR NELSON OR TRADE DOWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
*****************
March 20th, 2018 at 7:30 pm
who is Trade Down ?
March 20th, 2018 at 7:35 pm
Drafting Davenport at 7 would put Aguayo type pressure on him. Please. Just no.
March 20th, 2018 at 7:38 pm
Drafting Davenport or Viti Vea at #7 is a fireable offense imho. I could live with Minkah or Derwin or Ward but NOT a raw player like Davenport or a DT like Vea (as this is an incredibly deep DT draft).
March 20th, 2018 at 7:53 pm
I have a strange feeling that Cleveland will draft Saquon-1 and Chubb-4. I hope that’s not the case, but prepared for worst case scenario. I also see the Giants drafting Nelson-2 potentially.
March 20th, 2018 at 7:56 pm
^ If the Browns don’t take a QB at #1 or #4 their GM will be the laughing stock of the entire NFL and should be fired immediately …
March 20th, 2018 at 7:56 pm
SteveK,
I like the Cleveland Browns…and that’s what I have been saying. I hope they draft Barkley and Chubb.
March 20th, 2018 at 7:57 pm
SMH, every year all the “experts” say “Trade Down”, but before we can trade down, we need a trade partner, and they don’t always show up. Last year, OJ Howard fell to us, and we were stuck at that pick, there were no offers from other teams to move up.
Maybe it will be different this year, it all depends on how this draft plays out.
The bottom line is, we should not be in this mess, but we are.
March 20th, 2018 at 7:58 pm
I believe they will draft Sam Darnold. But I hope they draft Barkley and Chubb.
March 20th, 2018 at 8:05 pm
NFLNut
What if the Browns trade back into the 1st round and take the 4th QB available?
I could see them taking Barkley-1, Chubb-4, and Mayfield?
They have a bunch of ammo to trade up. They could use their second round picks and a 1 next year if they felt strongly enough?
IDK, but I just see Dorsey taking the best RB prospect in years and then taking a complimentary edge rusher, Chubb, to pair with Myles Garrett.
March 20th, 2018 at 8:10 pm
I believe if the Browns draft Barkley and Chubb. They could win with Tyrod Taylor at QB. They traded for Jarvis Landry, also they will have their other picks.
March 20th, 2018 at 8:12 pm
Cleveland takes a QB and a DB at 1 and 4. Book it.
March 20th, 2018 at 8:12 pm
I don’t see the need to reach for a QB, when you have Tyrod Taylor. You draft the best players available. Bradley is the best defensive player available. Saquon Barkley is the best offensive player available.
March 20th, 2018 at 8:16 pm
Tyrod Taylor don’t turn the ball over, he’s a smart mobile QB. Why reach for a QB in this draft and pass over better players?
March 20th, 2018 at 8:24 pm
Doesn’t matter. Better hope Jameis has his best year yet and that Godwin gets more snaps than Djax. Only defense this team has a prayer at having is it’s offense. Fight fire with fire or get hosed!
March 20th, 2018 at 8:26 pm
The best thing that could happen to the Bucs is there are 2 QB’s still available when they draft. It makes trading down easier and additional picks for compensation.
March 20th, 2018 at 8:44 pm
If John Dorsey is the brilliant football mind everyone thinks he is, He should recognize that Tyrod Taylor is not a long term solution at the games most important position.
March 20th, 2018 at 9:03 pm
JJones- Last season Jameis played with an injury so I don’t think anybody expected his deep ball to be as accurate as it would normally be. DeSean stayed in Cal. last off-season didn’t throw with Winston until training camp. It was a pretty big story. This year they are working in the off-season, guess that’s why it’s a big story again. You are correct that they had pros and cons on every Qb’s deep passing. That was kinda the point of the article. But the other big takeaway to you should be Jameis was ranked 6th best in the league in 2016. Ahead of ‘16 Dak Prescott, Matt Stafford, Derek Carr and Russell Wilson.
March 20th, 2018 at 9:18 pm
@Capt Tim … “This team is desperate for a DEFENSIVE END, first and foremost. Not an inconsequencial Guard! Its not that complicated.” Tim, at least half the JBFers are convinced that if we add a new LG & RB the Bucs’ offense will be scoring AT LEAST 30 PPG. Makes 0 difference that the Bucs’ Defense will be just as bad this year unless we solidify the DLine & Secondary.
March 20th, 2018 at 9:28 pm
Sure the wizzbang pinball version of football the NFL has tilted the rules to produce is fun to watch….at the end of the day it is still running the ball and being able to stop the run…we could not give our defense a rest last year because of a weak run game….and the defenses understood that…
March 20th, 2018 at 9:31 pm
Yep Chubb or Barkley is the dream
March 20th, 2018 at 9:31 pm
Stanglassman…Here is apart of the article I believe kind of speaks to Jameis.
When looking at the best deep passers, one must also rate season-to-season consistency highly. One-year wonders who thrive under favorable circumstances are questionable future prospects, especially when those circumstances are removed.
Jameis teeters dangerously close to this description and he played injured for 2 games, 5 and 6 taken out in the 6th. Djax wasn’t in Cali all off-season, just to train up his speed with his long time coach from what I remeber but I do remember them working together when b4 training camp.
It’s a good article though, interesting read. I do have hope for him so don’t take me for a Jameis hater, I’m just disappointed and I believe he needs a better QB coach. No matter how much I live or hate a player I try to be objective and critical. I respect your opinion too.
March 20th, 2018 at 9:33 pm
*love or hate
March 20th, 2018 at 10:13 pm
Chubb, Barkley, Nelson, Fitzpatrick, James or Ward. The Bucs will pick one of these at 7. Any one of these guys would be a welcome addition. We are sitting ok at 7 though we could also trade back and grab and extra pick.
March 20th, 2018 at 10:15 pm
I would take Davenport at 7 if Chubb isn’t there. The Lions took Ansah #5 and he only had 4.5 sacks in college! He was as raw as they come. You draft based on potential and ceiling.
March 20th, 2018 at 10:27 pm
LakeLand
Tyrod Taylor may not turn the ball over but that doesn’t translate to wins. If the browns want to win, they will draft a quarterback.
A quarterback throwing for 300 yards 3 tds And 2 ints is better than a quarterback like Taylor who will throw for 150 1 td And 0 ints. Taylor is just a solid game manager and if you want to win with a game manager you better have a top 3 defense.
March 20th, 2018 at 10:47 pm
Joe
When did the Bucs roll the dice and win?
Jameis
Not yet they haven’t. Hopefully next year, but not yet. Long way to go with much to prove
March 20th, 2018 at 10:50 pm
Bucs will just have to see who falls to them at 7. Nobody expected Howard to fall to them last year
March 20th, 2018 at 10:56 pm
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LAKELAND and STEVEK:
LAKELAND, you like the Browns and WANT them to draft a RB and DE … that’s just insane to me. Tyrod Taylor is NOT even a real QB. He’s a gimmick that can’t throw the ball down the field. Can he “not lose” games on a team with a good defense and running game, sure … lots of QBs can … but can he “win games” with an average team? Heck no. He’s a fine one-year “bridge” QB but that’s it.
There are also ZERO QBs projected to be franchise QBs in next year’s draft. The Browns have to draft their franchise QB this year.
Now, if all the Browns want to do is win 7-9 games a year, fine, draft Saquon and Chubb and let Tyrod play QB … they may even make the playoffs once or twice … whoop-te-do.
However, if they want to actually try and build a team that can win a SB one day, they will draft a franchise QB.
STEVEK, you actually asked a solid question when you asked if the Browns could take Saquon and Chubb at #1 and #4 and then trade back up to draft Baker Mayfield. If they could do something like that, more power to them and that would be cool, but NO, I don’t believe they have any realistic shot at doing that. The Bills could crush whatever offer they can make to trade up … if they don’t get their QB at #1 or #4, the best they’ll be able to do is draft a non-top-4 QB … but hey, what if they’re blowing smoke like crazy and actually love Lamar Jackson … they could trade up to get him.
I actually find it strange that they acquired Tyrod Taylor as their “bridge” QB as he’s not even a real QB … is he really going to teach anything to a guy like Sam Darnold? Is Darnold going to respect him at all, when he knows he can throw the ball way better than Tyrod? However … if they did take Saquon and Chubb and then trade up to draft Lamar Jackson, I do think Tyrod could teach Lamar and Lamar could at least respect Tyrod’s ability to play mistake free football.
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March 20th, 2018 at 11:16 pm
@ Lakeland
I completely agree with you about Cleveland. QB is not on the top of their radar.
I live just south of Erie PA. My whole family are Browns fans. Not one of them are screaming for a QB. Tyrod Taylor is the best QB they have had in a very long time and he is still young. There is no need to waste #1 or #4 on a QB when they have a starting QB.
Cleveland will take RB Barkley #1. They then have the option of taking Chubb or Minkah or whoever they want. Heck everyone in my family thinks the Browns will trade out of #4 and take Vita Vea or the best OT and get even more picks. Then they can trade back into the 1st to take whoever the heck they want. or just keep their bazillion 2nd rounders at that point.
Tyrod Taylor is the best QB the Browns have had in 20 years. Combine Taylor with Barkley and a ton of picks in the first 3 rounds and they can have a very scary team in the next couple years.
March 20th, 2018 at 11:41 pm
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^ You people are just scaring me now … add another one (i.e. Pa Privateer) to the group of folks calling for the Browns to pass on a QB altogether … to me that is just INSANITY.
Tyrod Taylor is a joke … a complete joke. He’s a gimmick. He’s not a real QB.
I just can’t even imagine the Browns not taking one of the top 4 QBs and rolling with Tyrod Taylor instead … that would be a fireable offense to me for the GM.
I’m just shocked by you guys today …
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March 20th, 2018 at 11:48 pm
Bradley Chubb, Myles Garrett bookends DEs….Carlos Hyde, Saquon Barkley RBs
March 20th, 2018 at 11:49 pm
I’m higher on Davenport than Chubb to be honest
March 21st, 2018 at 12:02 am
You can always get a QB in free agency, trade also. You don’t have to pass over solid prospects to reach for a QB.
March 21st, 2018 at 12:24 am
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^ There is no “reach”, the Browns have 2 of the top 4 picks.
Sam Darnold is a better QB prospect than Bradley Chubb is a DE prospect imo.
Barkley’s on another level, he is in fact, a “perfect” prospect … however, he’s also a RB, not a QB and that isn’t that valuable of a position.
I just can’t understand anyone saying the Browns should pass on drafting a QB this year … that just blows my mind.
If the Browns don’t need to draft a QB, no team does … the Jets have both Teddy B and McCown and Hackenberg … the Broncos have Case and Paxton … the Cardinals have Bradford and Glennon … the Giants have Eli and Webb …. the Bills have McCarron and Peterman … one could make a case that all those teams actually are in better shape at the QB position than Cleveland is and yet you advocate the Browns passing on a QB … INSANITY imho.
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March 21st, 2018 at 12:26 am
Bradley Chubb is NOT an “elite” talent … he’s sort of a lesser Joey Bosa. He’s the best DE in this draft by far but he’s not an elite DE prospect. Sam Darnold on the other hand absolutely is an elite QB prospect, as is Josh Rosen (his ONLY real concern is his attitude as he has elite arm talent and is NFL ready right now).
I just can’t believe what I’m hearing Lakeland …
March 21st, 2018 at 12:47 am
@NFLNut
From what I’m picking up, Lakeland wants Clevand to pick those guys to spite us. He’s got this really weird love hate thing going on with the Bucs. To each their own.
I personally think Cleveland takes a QB at 1, most likely Darnold, and then they take either Ward or Fitzpatrick at 4. But I honestly wouldn’t mind them taking Chubb/ Barkley because that means that we have a better shot at trading down with Buffalo. And I’d swap #7 for picks #12, #22, and #55.
Trade down Option 1
Round 1 Pick #12 – Vita Vea NT Washington 6’4 347
Round 1 Pick #22 – Derrius Guice RB LSU 5’10 212
Round 2 Pick #38 – Will Hernandez LG Texas-El Paso 6’2 348
Round 2 Pick #55 – Ogbonnia Okoronkwo EDGE Oklahoma 6’1 253
Option 2
Round 1 Pick # 12 – Marcus Davenport Edge Texas-San Antonio 6’6 264
Round 1 Pick # 22 – Da’ron Payne DT Alabama 6’2 311
Round 2 Pick # 38 – Will Hernandez LG Texas-El Paso 6’2 348
Round 2 Pick # 55 – Rashaad Penny RB San Diego ST. 5’11 220
If no trade down can be secured, I’d be fine with us selecting Denzel Ward or Derwin James at 7.
March 21st, 2018 at 12:54 am
*Cleveland* lol i was typing fast.
March 21st, 2018 at 2:18 am
We need a playmaker for our D. James or Davenport will be the pick, interestingly James could end up getting plenty of blitz opportunties if used correctly, James could get more sacks than Davenport early
March 21st, 2018 at 2:23 am
^ Davenport would be a joke pick and should get Licht fired …
March 21st, 2018 at 2:51 am
yip …. davenport is a reach
March 21st, 2018 at 4:02 am
Blake Bucsfan- a great offensive line is very important.
But you dont need great Guards and centers, to make a great line!
What a line needs, is continuity. Practices together. Games together.
Your Left tackle needs to be an outstanding athelete. The rest of the line doesnt. There are as many undrafted guards starting in the NFL, as drafted.
Not saying we dont draft a guard in round 3 or 4.
Just saying that an excellent guard wont make us a winner. An excelkent DE may.
We Had the best Guard in the league-Logan Mankins.
While his experience helped the line, his skill didnt.
He destroyed his guy.
Aaaand the rookie beside him , let his guy blow up the running back for a 4 yard loss.
Meanwhile, A DE like JJ Watts can go one on one with a Left tackle- beat him, and sack the QB for a 15 yard loss.
Great DE> a Great Guard
March 21st, 2018 at 6:18 am
NFLNut
I hope the Browns picks a QB before we pick. IDK why, but I sense them picking Barkley at 1 bc he’s such a deal and beast. At 4, if their pick of the QB litter is gone, I could see them saying “eff it” and picking Chubb to compliment Myles Garrett.
In the AFC north, they will want to pressure opposing QBs and pound the rock to play keepaway.
With their plethora of picks, I could see them trading back up if a QB is in reach. Dorsey and McCloughan both like them some Baker Mayfield. If Baker is available to trade up for, I could see them using some of their early picks.
Tyrod is a bridge QB, and a capable game manager. They gave up the first pick in round 3 for him. I could easily see them taking by the best RB prospect in years, and complimenting their pass rush with Chubb. Bottom line, if they don’t like any of the QBs early then they may role the dice and take some of the best prospects available?
And, the Giants. If they don’t trade back or take a QB, I could see them drafting Nelson at 2. Gettleman has demonstrated over the years to draft top prospects over pigeon holing a certain position.
Worst case scenario, Barkley-1,Nelson-2, Jets- QB?, Chubb-4, Minkah- 5 or 6,
Bucs-SOL @7, hopefully a trade back to a team that likes a QB enough.
It will be very interesting to see how this draft shakes out. With each passing day I get the feeling that our last game victory, which moves us from 5th to 7th, will cost us to miss out on one of the top 3 Prospects available. Man, it would be nice if 4 QBs went right off the bat, and who knows, it could happen.
March 21st, 2018 at 6:58 am
@NflNut, I’m curious who would you pick if Barkley, Chubb, Nelson are gone and we don’t trade down?
March 21st, 2018 at 8:13 am
“You can always get a QB in free agency”
That may be true LakeLand, just not a good one.
March 21st, 2018 at 9:15 am
Most QBs, teams draft in the 1st rounds are BUSTS.
March 21st, 2018 at 9:19 am
Nick Foles just beat Tom Brady in the Super Bowl
3rd Round QB vs 6th Round QB
How how many times has 3rd Round QB Russell Wilson been to the Super Bowl?
March 21st, 2018 at 10:35 am
Browns worked out Rosen today which is quite telling. If you’re not going to pick a QB in the 1st round, why work them out, that’s counterproductive to the process imo.
March 21st, 2018 at 10:37 am
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LAKELAND,
I just don’t understand your position at all … you say most first round QBs are busts … that is NOT true, but even if it were true, nearly ALL non 1st round QBs end up as career backups or out of the league in short order!
Now, here is a breakdown of first round QBs in the last 20 drafts (1998-2017):
Manning
Leaf = BUST
Couch = BUST
McNabb
Akili = BUST
Culpepper
McNown = BUST
Pennington
Vick
Brees
Carr = BUST
Harrington = BUST
Ramsey = BUST
Palmer
Leftwich = BUST
Boller =BUST
Grossman = BUST
Manning
Rivers
Roethlisberger
Losman = BUST
Smith
Rodgers
Campbell
Young = BUST
Leinart = BUST
Cutler
Jamarcus = BUST
Quinn = BUST
Ryan
Flacco
Stafford =
Sanchez = BUST
Freeman = BUST
Bradford
TeBow = BUST
Cam
Locker = BUST
Gabbert = BUST
Ponder = BUST
Luck
RG3
Tannehill
Weedon = BUST
Manuel = BUST
Bortles
Manziel = BUST
Bridgewater
Jameis
Mariota
Goff
Wentz
Lynch = BUST SO FAR
Trubisky = too early to tell
Mahomes = too early to tell
Watson
There have been (56) QBs drafted in the 1st round of the past 20 drafts … here’s the break-down:
Non-Busts: (29)
Busts: (25)
Too Early to Tell: (2)
Guaranteed HOF’ers: 6
Potential Future HOF’ers: 6+
So, taking out the (2) “too early to tell guys”, there have been 25 busts out of 54 QBs, for a bust rate of 46.3% and a success rate of 53.7%.
Again, if the Browns don’t draft a QB with one of their first two picks, that is a fireable offense for the GM!
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March 21st, 2018 at 10:44 am
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MY ANSWERS AND COMMENTS TO RECENT POSTS:
BLAKEBUCSFAN, Great post man and I like your picks … mine might differ a bit but yours are very solid!
STEVEK, Your posts have gotten very good lately; nice work! I do understand what you’re saying, but I still maintain that not drafting a QB at either #1 or #4 is a fireable offense for Cleveland’s GM. If they KNEW FOR SURE they could trade back up for Mayfield, fine, but I think that’s extremely unrealistic as they couldn’t top the Bills trade offer and I expect Mayfield to be gone in the top 11 picks and probably the top 6 picks.
EVOLVINGBUCFAN, Great question … I’d strongly prefer a trade down if Saquon, Chubb and Nelson are all off the board but if the team uses the pick I’d be okay with Minkah, Ward or Derwin, that’s it. The draft is far too deep at the DT position to take a DT like Vea and I consider Davenport a huge risk and too much of a reach to take at #7. Heck, I may even just take the best QB available and then hold him for ransom and tell all the teams to make their best offer for him, the way the Chargers did with Eli Manning back in the 2004 Draft!
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March 21st, 2018 at 10:56 am
Lakeland
If you were a GM what would be your draft philosophy?
“Hey lets pass on the QB we want in the first round so we can take one in the 6th round on the off chance that he becomes a Superbowl champion later on”
Make sense…
March 21st, 2018 at 11:19 am
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^ I’ve been giving Lakeland a hard time too, but I actually think he may just mistakenly think that Chubb is some perfect, elite DE prospect and that all the QBs are average prospects. If he actually thinks that than he’s sincere, just sincerely wrong.
I mean, if he thinks Saquon is Lev Bell 2.0 and Bradley Chubb is Bruce Smith 2.0 and that ALL the top QBs are Jay Cutler 2.0 at best, sure, I’d take Saquon and Chubb too … but that’s pretty silly to think.
To me, Chubb is nothing more than “the best DE prospect in this draft” and NOT an actual “elite DE prospect”, while I view Sam Darnold as an actual elite QB prospect, Rosen as the same although with attitude issues and Josh Allen as an all-world talent but one who is extremely raw.
Lakeland should also realize that this draft is like the 1999 draft where FIVE of the first 12 picks were all QBs … and the next year JUST ONE quarterback was even drafted in the first round, Chad Pennington at #18 … or the 2012 draft where FOUR of the first 22 picks were QBs and the next year, again, JUST ONE quarterback was even drafted in the first round, EJ Manuel at #16.
This year is a historic draft for QBs, where FOUR are all but guaranteed to go in the first 11 picks and maybe even in the first 4-6 picks and upwards of SIX quarterbacks could go in the first round … while next year is viewed as a draft without a single franchise QB and where the one and only QB that might even be drafted in the 1st wound is Michigan’s Shea Patterson, who comps out as Jonny Manziel … YUCK!
The Browns MUST take a QB at #1 or #4 this year … it would literally be a fireable offense for their GM if he doesn’t!
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