Rolling The Dice
February 3rd, 2018
Former Pro Bowler may return.
Joe still doesn’t get why people freak about the possibility of trading for Pro Bowl corner Aqib Talib.
No, Talib is not the best answer. No, he’s not a long-term answer. But he is an answer.
Here is what we do know about the Bucs and cornerbacks:
There is a real possibility 12-year veteran Brent Grimes will not return. That means Ryan Smith and Robert McClain (also a free agent) would be incumbent corners, and if the Bucs can’t bring McClain back either, then the starters for your beloved Bucs are Vernon Hargreaves and Smith.
Joe trusts you are not still rolling from last night to be good with that.
Sure, there may be other good corners available in free agency. Keyword there is “may.”
Until the free agency dinner bell rings in March, there is nothing to stop teams from re-signing or tagging their free agent corners. By trading for Talib, who is reportedly being shopped by the Broncos, the Bucs can secure a corner with no hope or wishful thinking or finger-crossing involved.
However, there is another option out there now. Former Pro Bowl Packers corner Sam Shields is in the midst of a comeback. The 30-year-old Sarasota native has been working out in his hometown and, per Michael Cohen of the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel, he’s looking for work.
But there are a few catches: Shields has missed virtually two years of football. His last game came against the Jags in September 2016, when he had to step away from the game due to a series of concussions. In the interview Joe linked, Shields admitted if he gets one more concussion, his NFL career is “a wrap.”
There also is a two-game suspension for getting popped with weed possibly hanging over his head. Shields is under the impression that sentence has been served because he’s been out of the game, but that interpretation may clash with NFL rules.
Shields claims he doesn’t need the cash — he credits the sheer boredom of life in Green Bay for forcing him to save money and invest wisely — so perhaps he could be had cheaply and be a quality reserve option.
Is Shields the answer? Probably not. But again, let Joe know what surefire corner the Bucs will land if they don’t trade for Talib and/or re-sign Grimes?
One can’t, because that would be a total dartboard guess at this time.
Is it a reach to sign Shields? You bet, but no more so than banking on Smith and Hargreaves to be your shutdown corners.
This is what happens when your defensive coaches cannot develop young corners. It forces a team into desperate moves.
February 3rd, 2018 at 3:18 am
TRADE FOR TALIB? NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
NO ONE IS GOING TO “TRADE” FOR HIM AT HIS AGE WITH HIS CURRENT SALARY IMHO
February 3rd, 2018 at 3:23 am
SIGN TALIB? SURE …
February 3rd, 2018 at 3:28 am
Both those scenarios are grasping at straws
February 3rd, 2018 at 4:18 am
Shields = damaged goods everyone. One Buc; please do not take a page from the crosstown MLB Rays and dabble with damaged goods… I know comparing the 2 clubs is apples and oranges (for one the Rays stay around 0.500, 80 wins in an off year and get these damaged cast-offs for a potential big return if the player excels as was the case so many time when the Rays made playoff runs but the Rays are starting to be compared to Pittsburgh and Miami for trading for damaged goods who HAD a high ceiling). Shields had his moment in the sun and I bet if the Bucs sign him he will probably be in concussion protocol, and given his history, retired by week 4 of the regular season perhaps even preseason……
BTW Joe, I would have loved to have posted my opinion of those boys who are playing on the wrong side of the Bay on JRF, what gives?
February 3rd, 2018 at 4:27 am
@Joe … “This is what happens when your defensive coaches cannot develop young corners. It forces a team into desperate moves.” Oh man Joe, you were doing so good, and then WHAM, you screw the pooch. I almost bought into signing a 30-year-old ‘former Pro Bowl corner’ named Sam Shields who’s ‘in the midst of a comeback’ after a 2-year hiatus in his basement in Sarasota because his dinner bell got run once too often. And oh ya, who’s 1 ding away from calling it a career. Oops forgot about the weed suspension hanging over his head. But hey, he can be had cheaply (let’s not forget that important factor that’s sure to get Licht’s attention). Now THAT’S a CB the Bucs can build their Secondary around.
But nooo, you just couldn’t leave it alone. It’s all the defensive coaches’ fault because they can’t develop young corners. Surely VHIII & Ryan Smith are budding future All-Pros, if only we had some defensive backfield coaches who knew what they were doing. Maybe, just maybe, VHIII’s ‘regression’ is on HIM? Maybe, just maybe, Ryan Smith (a 4th Rnd pick) is in fact where we should expect him to be in his FIRST year as a starting NFL outside corner? (the defensive coaches were maybe, just maybe, TOLD to develop him as a Safety his 1st year?). Nah, it’s much more fun to identify scapegoats with unsubstantiated allegations. That’s who we are; or at least seemingly who we’ve become. Press on Joe, lead the way.
LOL. Unsubstantiated?? The Bucs coaches benched 22-year-old Hargreaves. Smith? He’s not very good, doesn’t matter if he’s playing his best or not. Javien Elliot took a step backwards in his second season. Josh Robinson can’t crack the lineup (he actually played corner in Minnesota), and when he is finally asked to cover a receiver on a fake punt, he fails miserably and interferes with the guy. Alterraun Verner got worse in Tampa as a 27 year old. –Joe
February 3rd, 2018 at 6:00 am
Is it the coaching, or is it the lack of talent along the DL? We Banked our season on a couple of guys who don’t like to practice and a couple of injury prone DEs. Recall that the better teams in this league have 4-5 guys that produce at DE. Is it just a coincidence that the CBs on those teams are the better CBs across the NFL? This concerned Bucs fan does not think so.
February 3rd, 2018 at 6:03 am
Also, note to “defense rules”: THERE ARE NO BASEMENTS IN SARASOTA, THIS IS FLA
February 3rd, 2018 at 6:51 am
Its the statement of the ” coaching staff can’t develop” when they have only been here for 2 seasons!!!!! using that logic, Brent Grimes would have been cut because he did not get it, until his 4th year!!!!!! Now, throw in no pass rush, and it becomes unfair to even try to evaluate how the secondary is preforming!!!!!!! Truth be told, I would even be fine with them keeping the same secondary roster as last year, if they focus on the D-line and pass rush!!!!!!! It can and will make that much of a difference for next year!!!!!!!!!!
GO Buc!!!!!!!!!!!
February 3rd, 2018 at 7:12 am
You are kinda sad Buc Realist. Like other teams are just sittin around and not makin improvements to their already winning records. Bucs ain’t nowheres under Koetter and smitty but back to the celler where its nice and cozy.
February 3rd, 2018 at 7:47 am
I think this team needs to continue to draft well….dont give away draft picks for someone who will be gone in two years. Until there is a COMPLETE coaching staff in place, it doesn’t matter either way.
Fire Mike Smith
February 3rd, 2018 at 7:51 am
Lol signing Sam Shields would be like Lovie bringing in that can of a corner Lovie brought in from Chicago
February 3rd, 2018 at 8:14 am
you ain’t completely wrong realist
February 3rd, 2018 at 8:16 am
I’d agree with bringing Shields into camp to compete for a roster spot or potentially more but as far as Talib I’d look at signing him after he’s released but wouldn’t trade for him. Rumor has it that Denver is looking at signing Kirk Cousins in free agency so that’s going to eat up at least 23 mil a season in cap space, they’ll be pushed to make some tough decisions.
February 3rd, 2018 at 8:21 am
Quite possibly if we fix the SIEVE (NOT SEIGE) of a defensive line where QBs are allowed to eat a pizza waiting for a receiver to get open, that would solve our hideous defensive backfield issue.
DL/OL all day this draft. Fix the trenches. As Mel Gibson screamed in The Patriot….HOLD THE LINE!!!!!!!!!!!!
February 3rd, 2018 at 8:39 am
Just another reason to sign Aqib Talib. Talib (6-1 205), 31 years old, soon to be 32, is a 5 X Pro-Bowl participant and also a Super Bowl champion. Shields (5-11 184) is a bit undersized and is 30 years old. Shields has great speed (4.30 40 NFL combine) been solid most of his career, played in and won a Super Bowl and was selected to the Pro-Bowl in 2014, however he’s fought inconsistencies from year to year. He was the Packers No. 1 Cornerback and played with a Secondary which did not allow a passer rating above 87.6 or a completion percentage above 58.2, per PFF.
Interesting that Shield’s struggled against Atlanta’s Julio Jones who was able to catch 11 receptions for 259 yards and a touchdown on 17 targets. Shields was the worst defender on the Packers’ side of the ball for the night. In 2016, Shields missed basically the entire season due to his fourth known concussion in his NFL career. Shields was placed on injured reserve and only played in one game.
A big “pass” on Shields. This team needs to wake up and re-sign Brent Grimes and sign Talib asap. Players like Grimes ad Talib do not hit the FA market and want to live in Tampa very often. Jump on this fortunate opportunity to have two former All-Pro’s and a first round Vernon Hargreaves take the field together. Then we can focus on a DE/DT and a right guard in FA or the draft.
February 3rd, 2018 at 8:49 am
Hargreaves’ regression is on one person and one person only – Vernon Hargreaves. Hope he takes this offseason seriously and works his butt off to improve.
Ryan Smith is coming along just fine and is pretty much exactly where he should be in his development.
It was a nice attempt at trying to justify why Defensive coaches should be run off – but your agenda is showing Joseph.
Sam Shields should not be seriously considered as an option for the Bucs – but his situation regarding the Concussions and use of cannabis to help relieve the symptoms of that particular injury NEEDS to be a front and center topic among NFL policy makers.
Are you listening King Goodell??? Obviously NOT!
Marijuana is one of the most useful substances on the planet to aid in the treatment of concussions and there’s plenty of science already available to back that up. You ARE all about player safety and doing what’s possible to help protect and relieve concussion symptoms among NFL players – right Roger?? SMH…
February 3rd, 2018 at 8:53 am
The problem with bringing a player back that was here before is that we wouldn’t get the best part of them.
Talib may revert back to his previous self and be another wasted draft picks or money.
February 3rd, 2018 at 8:55 am
And regarding Talib – sure he would be a decent option to help in the interim while we try to find and/or develop our young CBs of the future.
But not for $12M. And certainly not for draft picks on top of the $12M. Did you learn nothing from the Revis fiasco Joe? Apparently not.
February 3rd, 2018 at 8:58 am
@Marc … “note to “defense rules”: THERE ARE NO BASEMENTS IN SARASOTA, THIS IS FLA.” LOL Marc. I kinda know that (most likely have lived here longer than you have). Now, do you remember Lovie Smith? Do you remember his hiatus from coaching? Do you remember where he said he spent it? Aah yes. By George I think you’ve got it.
February 3rd, 2018 at 8:59 am
He’ll 2 the naw naw. HARD pass on Sam. I would be livid with a signing like that. One hit wonder! I wonder will he get up after a big hit..no thank you Joe. Some stones are better left unturned. I wish a motherfμ<%er would!!!!
February 3rd, 2018 at 9:13 am
@Joe … “LOL. Unsubstantiated??” Yup, unsubstantiated Joe. Do you know beyond a shadow of a doubt what was going on with VHIII last year? I certainly don’t, and haven’t seen anything concrete as to why he fell off a cliff. Was his unsatisfactory performance on HIM or was it on something or someone else? Ryan Smith’s not very good? Maybe, but again, that was his FIRST year as a CB & many times it didn’t look like he got much help back there. IOW, jury’s still out IMO. Elliott took a step backwards? Never knew he took a step forwards … he’s a backup at best. Robinson is a STs player (maybe a backup safety, but even that’s dubious). Verner is the one I still can’t figure out (yes, he made the Pro Bowl but he only had 1 really good year up in Tennessee). His first year in Lovie’s system (2014) he was actually quite good IMO (despite the fact our 2-14 team sucked) … played in 14 games, 2 INTs, 2 FF, 75 combined tackles. After that his numbers went downhill fast & he’s not exactly lighting the Dolphins world on fire either (did start 2 games though).
February 3rd, 2018 at 10:10 am
This is just the type of signing this team needs at his age and at his limited abilities… yeah right more mediocrity added to a losing culture
Dafuq outta here.
February 3rd, 2018 at 10:31 am
Nnnnnnnnope! If he knows that it is one more concussion and he is through then he will be playing timid. Last thing we need
Fix the DL. A fierce Pass Rush makes an average secondary look good.
February 3rd, 2018 at 11:47 am
Had him…don’t want him back. Rather have a raw rookie with some skills and plan for the future. Yeah…he’s an answer but one I’d rather not have.
February 3rd, 2018 at 12:04 pm
ANY Talib haters are hippocrits……
your still looking for choir boys from the schiano choir boy squad…that doesn’t win you jack SPIT
If it wasn’t rape or domestic abuse …child abuse….whats the dam problem SMH
BUT young mistakes for defending your family against those acts ARE
PEOPLES LOGIC WITH THAT JUST REEKS RACISIM IM SORRY…..
February 3rd, 2018 at 12:05 pm
Talib’s production is down every year the past 3 years…you are hoping for peak of his career Talib- he is on the downside.
February 3rd, 2018 at 12:08 pm
When you have Von Miller chasing Q.B.’s average corners look good. Joe you and Licht don’t get it. You build your team from the front back, not the other way around. Talib is a turd at the end of his career, give it a rest.
February 3rd, 2018 at 12:13 pm
@Pickgrin
Don’t know if you saw the same documentary as me but your are 100% correct about medicinal effects of marijuana for football injuries especially the head.
A scientist in Israel has already reversed brain damage in rats with THC.
Our society has never figured out drugs. We allow alcohol…nicotine…yet we also allowed Nixon to move weed to Schedule one with opiates and the heavy stuff simply to punish the hippies who were against the war. It has NOTHING to do with science or medicine.
February 3rd, 2018 at 1:38 pm
@stpetebucsfan
Preach!
Israeli scientists have proven that THC/CBD is great for concussions.
America was founded on secular, scientific principles but was hijacked by christian extremist fundamentalists.
Cannabis is the perfect medicine for NFL players.
Ask Ricky Williams!
Go Bucs!
February 3rd, 2018 at 1:43 pm
Alanbucs,
Right on. I was wondering why no one was mentioning Talib’s play has fallen off big time. Broncos will call it a car cutting move but in reality his performance last year doesn’t merit his pay.
February 3rd, 2018 at 1:44 pm
Alanbucs,
Right on. I was wondering why no one was mentioning Talib’s play has fallen off big time. Broncos will call it a cap cutting move but in reality his performance last year doesn’t merit his pay.
February 3rd, 2018 at 1:50 pm
No one is saying the Bucs do not need help at corner.
Why does it have to be Talib? And Bennett at DE?
Would you guys be calling for the Bucs to sign those players if they never played here before?
The Bucs have a ton of problems that cannot all be fixed this offseason. If they start trying to patch problems with quick fix players on their final legs career wise, those areas will just be problems again before they try and fill other needs. Rinse. Repeat. They’ll never be good enough.
The Bucs need to focus on the lines this offseason. Both of them. And then reap the benefits in other position groups because improved line play helps EVERYONE.
Fix the trenches, fix the Bucs!!
February 3rd, 2018 at 2:37 pm
Who should be blamed for corners not being developed, Todd Monken?
February 3rd, 2018 at 2:40 pm
Let’s not get carried away.
Joe’s come to the conclusion the boy scout route won’t work unless you already have a winning team established, which the Bucs do not. However, if a guy gets suspended because he cannot behave, cannot follow simple rules like the vast majority of NFL players can and do, it is the team that gets screwed because the player isn’t available to play.
Talib comes with baggage, big time. But right now it’s either gamble on a guy with major baggage, or worse, gamble on a corner who cannot cover.
February 3rd, 2018 at 2:41 pm
Not at all. You are hoping for a competent corner, which if Grimes retires/signs elsewhere, the Bucs do not have.
Talib just came off a Pro Bowl season. Mock the Pro Bowl if you wish, but generally, the Myron Lewises of the world don’t play in the Pro Bowl.
February 3rd, 2018 at 2:47 pm
Defense Rules:
Feel free to cite a corner the Bucs have had the past two seasons not named “Grimes” who actually improved.
February 3rd, 2018 at 2:53 pm
Hodad:
You may be right, if you ignore that elephant in the room that just took a 30-pound dump on the coffee table.
Barring some monumental trade, or an act of God, the Bucs pass rush is very unlikely to improve much if at all in 2018 (unless the Seahawks let go of Michael Bennett and the Bucs right a great wrong). So saying the Bucs need to build a pass rush to help out Ryan Smith and others is correct, but that’s not going to happen until 2019 at least. So, yeah, if the Bucs are willing to throw away a season, OK, they can ignore the secondary in order to build a pass rush for the future and everyone can play daily fantasy football and draft wide receivers that face the Bucs each Sunday.
Don’t think Koetter and Licht have that luxury.
And you cannot tell Joe that Talib is not an upgrade over Ryan Smith, com’on.
February 3rd, 2018 at 3:01 pm
My guess, even at 30, Shields is still one of the fastest corners in the game, my son played with Shields back in Sarasota, he spent three years at Miami playing receiver, got to the NFL and made the pro bowl as an undrafted FA, not by mistake, kid has mad talent, Bucs should take a chance, what else you got?
February 3rd, 2018 at 3:10 pm
Rrsrq:
Guess one thing you could say about Shields is that being out of football for two years, less wear and tear on the treads.
February 3rd, 2018 at 4:09 pm
Okay…out of hand. The whole team had one bad year. The WHOLE TEAM. That doesn’t mean guys like Smith and HVIII won’t work out. It’s how players respond to bad years that defines their careers.
Mike Evans is a perfect example. He had a bad year and worked his tail off to fix things. VHIII will have to do the same. Smith improved and if he can take a step now, he’ll be good. His improvements came when he was put in a starting role. Maybe that is just what he needs.
Joe sounds ready to give up. I’m not.
“Joe’s come to the conclusion the boy scout route won’t work unless you already have a winning team established”
It has worked on offense. It has just needed time to come together. Developmental time. It will work on defense given a good draft. And Licht mostly has good drafts. Stop giving up.
February 3rd, 2018 at 4:10 pm
Rrsrq,
Lot of talent at Booker, lot’s. Shame more kids from there didn’t get to the next level. Mananatee and SRQ combined is one of the best area’s in the state and nation talent wise.
February 3rd, 2018 at 4:25 pm
Duke:
Once upon a time, Manatee and SRQ had the best football talent in the state of Florida outside of Muck City and Miami.
February 3rd, 2018 at 4:42 pm
I sure hope Jason licht doesn’t have the desperate mentality of the writers on this website. I can always be worse because these guys aren’t worse than the undrafted free agents who started for green Schiano. Leonard Johnson and I can’t even remember who played next to him because so many guys got hurt but neither corner was drafted so no its much worse than those years
February 3rd, 2018 at 5:23 pm
With a pass rush they can be good
February 3rd, 2018 at 6:00 pm
@Joe … “Feel free to cite a corner the Bucs have had the past two seasons not named “Grimes” who actually improved.” Personally think that Ryan Smith did improve, mostly towards the very end of the season. VHIII got benched, granted, but once they moved him to nickel I thought he showed some promise there. Is that improvement? Maybe. I also thought Robert McClain put together a very nice season, for a backup (3 INTs & 46 combined tackles in 9 starts is pretty good IMO).
More importantly though, does this secondary have the talent to keep up with the big boys is the real question to me. The biggest issue I think I saw last season is that the whole Secondary ‘unit’ does seem to play like a ‘unit’. Too many breakdowns yielding big plays, and all too often there’s too little backup. Don’t know if that’s a communications issue or whether it’s just too many different ‘pieces’ rotating in & out. And to me the LBs fall into that same bag. Bucs’ defense from the 2000 timeframe played like a well-oiled machine. Not the present one. Too many inexperienced guys. Beckwith, Evans, Ryan Smith, even VHIII … all are 1st or 2nd year guys getting a LOT of snaps in 4 out of 7 non-DLine positions.
February 3rd, 2018 at 6:02 pm
Oops, make that the “whole Secondary ‘unit’ DOESN’T seem to play like a ‘unit”.
February 3rd, 2018 at 6:44 pm
Talib is the answer to the wrong question. Better to roll our own (pun in honor of T.J. Ward).
February 3rd, 2018 at 8:33 pm
I think there are a couple of approaches this team can take for this offseason and trading for Talib could be one of them. After all we shouldn’t have to give up much for him at all.
Signing Shield would not be a good move if you’re going to rely on him. But probably not a bad guy to sign for training camp.
A big part of our corner situation depends on Grimes. I would figure they have already talked with him and have a good ideal if he’ll be returning by now. If he does come back they may look to the draft to fill our hole at corner if they like Fitzpatrick a lot. There’s a good chance he will be there at 7. If not there are a few other guys rated right near the top 10 they may like as well. It all depends on their evaluation.
Another option for the front office is to trade for a DE….Maybe Bennet since he could be had at a low price like Talib.
Or maybe they want to trade up for Chubb. That may not be a horrible situation if they see him as a franchise player.
There are just so many options at this point. More rumors should start flying after the Big Game and our team should be a part of a lot of them.
My only worry is with jobs on the line Licht will make shortsighted moves without thinking about our future. It’s one thing to have a coach on the hot seat but having your GM on the hot seat is pretty scary.