Might Want To Scratch Off List
February 25th, 2018
Smoke signals not good.
The hopes of the Bucs getting a decent edge rush for 2018 grow dimmer by the day.
Yeah, the Bucs may draft a defensive end next month. History strongly suggests it is unlikely a rookie edge rusher will hit double digit sacks. Therefore, the Bucs must hope a team pulls a stupid stunt like the Bucs did a few years ago that simply cannot be excused except as a move performed in the middle of a weekend bender — letting Michael Bennett go for no good reason.
Teams rarely let good pass rushers leave — for no good reason. And if they are so naive, then pass-rushing-needy teams must pounce on said defensive end as if their lives depended on it.
This brings Joe to the current state of the Bucs. Tampa Bay must pray a team lets a good pass rusher go before the free agency dinner bell rings in 17 days. Otherwise, it will be at least another season to develop an edge rusher. And we all know how astute the Bucs have been the past decade with finding and grooming defensive ends.
Someday, there will be lectures in sports management classes at higher institutes of learning using the Bucs as an example of how to consistently burn draft picks and flush tens of millions of dollars down the toilet in futile efforts to find a pass rush.
Welcome to Tampa Bay!
Joe, and a lot of Bucs fans, were hoping somehow the Lions would see fit to turn loose free agent Ziggy Ansah. But is unlikely. BSPN Lions beat guy Michael Rothstein has twice since Feb. 15 written he cannot wrap his mind around how the Lions would either re-sign Ansah or slap him with a tag.
So it sure sounds as if the Bucs can cross off Ansah on their gift list.
And all smoke signals out of Dallas are the Cowboys are going to find a way to keep DeMarcus Lawrence, who had 17 sacks last year.
So for fans pining for a 2018 edge rush, the only way Joe can see the Bucs having a guy with 10 sacks is if Bucs AC/DC-loving general manager Jason Licht pulls off a trade for, say, Giants pricey Olivier Vernon or Bengals stud Carlos Dunlap.
Unless the Bucs make a move or Bradley Chubb somehow falls in their laps, it will be another season where the Bucs hope to get six sacks from someone. Joe loves the hire of new defensive line coach Brentson Buckner, but the man can only be expected to squeeze so much blood out of a turnip.
February 25th, 2018 at 12:11 am
Ziggy Ansah – Not going anywhere. Leveon Bell – Not going anywhere. Stop with the pipe dreams. The reality is there will be solid pass rushers that teams let go because of cap reasons aka Calais Campbell. The Bucs need to pounce on the opportunities that present itself. A stud like Bell or Ansah simply isn’t going to happen. You always have to look at why a team doesn’t tag or re-sign one of their own. Cap problems happen and that is a good time to pounce. Michael Johnson and Fatty Baker – Not so much. Gotta wonder why the Skins let him go when cap concerns weren’t the reason. Licht and staff have been terrible in FA. He better pick up his game this year because we need 1 or 2 hits on FA as well as the draft. Trumaine Johnson is looking very interesting right now. Now that the Rams have Peters, Johnson is expendable and we need to swoop in for the taking.
February 25th, 2018 at 12:13 am
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If we trade #7 for #21 and #22 and take 2 DEs (Davenport/Key/Hubbard) that could do wonders for our pass rush … and you never know, Chubb may fall to us as OJ did last year.
Browns: Saquon
Giants: QB
Colts: Quenton Nelson
Browns: QB
Broncos: CB if they get Cousins, QB if they don’t
Jets: QB if they get Cousins, CB if they don’t
Bucs: BRADLEY CHUBB
I’m not predicting the above, but it’s certainly possible.
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February 25th, 2018 at 12:17 am
Would anyone be upset if we cut Gholston, re-signed Russell and Clarke and traded a 2nd and 6th for Dante Fowler AND a 5th, 6th and 7th for Michael Bennett, giving us:
Bennett/Ayers
Fowler/Spence
Russell/Clarke
We could still draft Minkah in the 1st, Rashaad Penny in the 3rd and the best DT available in the 4th and would easily have enough cap money to sign a starting CB, SS and another DT?
THAT is not a bad plan either …
February 25th, 2018 at 12:22 am
Joe thought about trading for Fowler but Joe also vividly remembers how, at his combine press conference, he mocked the Bucs and had no desire to play for them.
Besides, given recent history, might be best for Fowler not to play for his hometown team.
February 25th, 2018 at 12:36 am
^ What did he say about the Bucs?
February 25th, 2018 at 12:42 am
@NFLNut
Fowler, yes. His little barb against the Bucs wasn’t a big deal. He said he liked the Bucs but the Bucs are the Bucs. Is there anybody among the fans here that would disagree with him? Think about the last 10 years. Just the Bucs being the Bucs. Bennett – No. Bennett should have never been jettisoned. Mark Dominic was simply in way over his head. He was clueless in every aspect of being a GM. With that said, I wouldn’t give up our last 3 rounds of picks for a 32 year old guy. Ever. If Licht hits on any one of those picks, it is more value than signing Bennett. Licht’s job is to hit on at least 1 of those picks.
February 25th, 2018 at 12:43 am
Nut:
Jenna Laine asked him about if he would like to play for the Bucs and his ear-to-ear smile quickly vanished and he frowned, shook his head and scoffed “The Bucs are the Bucs.” He mumbled something else but it was very clear he did not want to play for the Bucs.
February 25th, 2018 at 12:54 am
We’re not trading picks for vets. I’d rather suck better with promising rookies like Payne, Key than over pay. Plus I believe in Buckner to improve that pass rush. We should go younger getting rid of Ayers (respectively) and see if Our new DLine coach has an eye on a few FA around the league. Coordinators always know a few guys. Keep Gholston, resign our guys who had some production, and let Brinson do his thing.
I hate how we looked last year but B.B. feels right. Hell, toss in an Assistant D-Line Coach Simeon Rice and we might be cooking with hot grease.
Hey Licht, buy a CB or two, get a new coach ther as well, and buy a new C. Sweezy can be trade bate with Ayers. Get comp picks. Whatever, just don’t SCREW IT ALL UP!
February 25th, 2018 at 1:02 am
Pretty fine thinkin there NFLNUT!! My dream is for Chubb to fall us, Couse had we tanked the Saints game..Chances would be better. But one never knows. I’m a propronant of trading down. That is..IF..Koetter wants to keep coaching. Gotta bring that D up if he is to finish at least 8-8.
February 25th, 2018 at 1:09 am
Here is what you have to ask then:
Do Licht and/or Koetter have the luxury to suck one more season and still keep their jobs? Joe’s educated hunch is, no.
And if Team Glazer was OK with sucking for another year, wouldn’t Koetter and Licht have had their contracts extended?
February 25th, 2018 at 1:30 am
It’s do or die for K and L Joe. You, me, everyone else and they know it. All the marbles go in. I definitely think Nut is onto something. I like the Fowler concept. No way in the world do I think the Jags bite. I’m not even against the Bennett move. I just see the Bucs aiming higher. Let’s not forget the Glazers still write the checks. They might be hesitant to trade picks when we have swung and missed for most of the pickups in the last few years.
February 25th, 2018 at 1:38 am
I hope we draft DE/DT with the first 4 picks
February 25th, 2018 at 1:43 am
If we don’t make the Playoffs this season then….I hope the Glazers get rid of the BACK/STABBERS together …they deserve that much, don’t you think?
February 25th, 2018 at 1:43 am
I wouldn’t trade for any of these players. There’s a lot of value in rounds 2-6. I understand that Jason Licht and Dirk Koetter has to win now. But when you’re playing young players and they are playing good. The owners should take this into consideration, when they evaluate the staff.
February 25th, 2018 at 1:45 am
There is no way any quality DE hits FA, there is such a lack of depth at the position teams would trade for guys that in other years would get released without much fanfare. I still think the fix is to switch schemes and use those good LBs (including Spence), but we know Mike Smith isn’t going to change anything.
Does anyone know the snap count for the defensive sets? Is that a number kept anywhere? I keep hearing the Bucs did play a 3-4 last year, but I don’t recall it. I know I saw a 3-3-5, but a base 3-4 is something I must have missed or just forgot about it. I’m not huge on 3-4 other than it would allow you to use Spence AND David as edge guys, and David is the answer as a edge rusher, we know he can do the job since he’s done it before. He’s just such a great cover guy they don’t like using him that way – but if you can’t get to the QB it doesn’t matter how good you can cover since eventually guys will get open.
February 25th, 2018 at 2:20 am
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Hi Lovie!
February 25th, 2018 at 2:27 am
Another option is to ensure you draft Chubb trade up if you have too, shoot for jet DE Wilkerson when he cut. If you’re going to overpay for older lineman the pay Sheldon Richardson also cut either gholston/ayers
February 25th, 2018 at 2:35 am
After Bucs got burned by lazy Swaggy, would be very surprised if Bucs went after Cancer Wilkerson.
February 25th, 2018 at 5:56 am
Back to what you started with Joe … Agree that Lions won’t part with Ansah & Cowboys won’t part with Lawrence. They’d both be crazy if they did (as in Bucs’ crazy for letting Bennett loose?). But Cmurda hit on the most likely scenario right up-front: Opportunities to grab a DE in FA (or two) WILL present themselves as this thing unfolds, just like they did last year. Licht sat on his $$$ (maybe at the direction of the Glazer Boys, who knows?) but the result was OPPORTUNITIES MISSED. He won’t have that luxury this year; his job is on the line (as it should’ve been last year IMO).
And NFLNut, yes I would be upset if they cut Gholston, although re-signing Clark I’m all in favor of (Russell is still under contract far as I know). I’m convinced that Gholston will be up in the 4-6 sacks range this year IF we improve our interior DLine significantly. My preference for rebuilding the DLine would be:
DT: McCoy, McDonald (re-sign), Vea or Payne (Draft) plus 1 other DT (FA or Draft)
DE: Spence, Gholston, Russell, Clarke (re-sign), plus 2 other DE (Draft or FA only if a top producer becomes available).
Would LOVE for the Bucs to get Chubb at #7 (it might happen, but odds are it won’t). Would love for the Bucs to get Minkah at #7 (more likely, but still probably won’t happen). Barring either of those, I’d stick at #7 and take either Vea or Payne (depending on how it looks after the Combine). Grab a DE & RB with our Rnd 2 & 3 picks (depending on how FA & the draft unfolds), then use Rnds 4-7 to fill in the blanks (DT, DE, SS, OLineman).
February 25th, 2018 at 7:20 am
I’m hoping the bills trade up to the browns’ #4 spot to get a QB.the browns know this is very real and could risk missing out on a QB again so they will go QB first.
#1-(Browns)QB
#2-(Giants)QB
#3-(Colts)Quenton
#4-(Bills)QB
#5-(Broncos)CB/S
#6-(Jets)Saquon Barkley or Bradley Chubb
February 25th, 2018 at 7:24 am
That would leave Tampa at #7 with a very real chance of landing Saquoan Barkley or Bradley Chubb.the bills will offer both of their first rounders this year and their 4th,next year’s first and 3rd, and 2020 3rd.this is very real and the browns would not risk missing out on a QB again in back to back years.i say Tampa stays put unless they receive a beefy trade offer.
February 25th, 2018 at 8:00 am
Maybe the Bucs can catch a break for once. Spence stays healthy all year and plays up to his potential – along with Ayers having a career year – leading to the Bucs having TWO 10+ sack DEs in 2018. Wouldn’t that be something….
February 25th, 2018 at 8:03 am
And as long as we’re delving into fantasy thinking – throw in Chubb somehow dropping to #7 and contributing another 6-8 sacks as well.
February 25th, 2018 at 8:11 am
I was on the Ansah wagon early, however, none of the tea leaves point to him leaving. He is the poster child for the use of the Franchise Tag. Every criteria is met regarding why an organisation would use it.
This free agent class is exactly why Bennett wants to be released from Seattle and why Seattle will not be releasing him this season. The list of solid DE is slim in this class. RBs, CB’s, OG, DTs… Yes these are available and the Bucs should pick up at least one of each.
February 25th, 2018 at 8:23 am
No one in Tampa (or anywhere) ever thought Ansah would hit the streets. Neither will DeMarcus Lawrence. Heck, I doubt Julius Peppers will either.
That’s the top three pass rushers in free agency.
Better to use free agency to target:
RB LeGarrette Blount
RB Carlos Hyde
CB Aaron Colvin
K Cody Parkey
And address the rest in the draft, unless a surprise becomes available.
February 25th, 2018 at 8:24 am
Example if surprise: Michael Bennett. Good bridge for whoever we draft.
February 25th, 2018 at 9:20 am
We should trade everything but our first for Aaron Donald or suh
February 25th, 2018 at 9:53 am
Nfl nut
Yeah Id be pissed if licht gave up a 2nd and 6th for Fowler. And again sending 3 picks for bennett. I love your enthusiasm but you sure like to give up way too much for guys. Take a look back at trades over the last few years. I wouldnt give up more than one 4th for Fowler and the same for bennett. Now if you get into a bidding war it could change slightly. Guys become available for a reason. Other teams want them out, which all GMs are aware of. Its rare you see a trade now where a team actually pries away a player the other team didnt wana part with. Thats when you get the high and numerous draft picks.
February 25th, 2018 at 10:14 am
” written he cannot wrap his mind around how the Lions would either re-sign Ansah or slap him with a tag.”
__________
????? That sounds as if he will be let walk. I think you mean “not” either re-sign ansah or slap him with a tag
February 25th, 2018 at 10:17 am
Trade for Quinn from rams and pick up Bennett from hawks if he is cap casualty. Quinn IS AVAILABLE as he was rumored to almost have been shipped to KC for Peters. Come on Licht pull the trigger, our biggest need and im afraid Quinn may be our only major play since everyone else who is capable of 10 sacks is going to be tagged or resigned.
February 25th, 2018 at 10:23 am
Geee…look at a certain someone (Joe) now including Bengals players in the FA/draft threads, that this certain Bucs fan had been early on suggesting/theorizing over the past few days in the threads here, that everyone decided to skip over…lol. Hmmm. For what it’s worth, IMO (sort of fact actually) it’s because of Geno Atkins in the middle of Cincy’s line and the attention that Dunlap gets such a free run at the QB, just like Vernon’s time in Miami with Suh there.
If there were 2 relative studs in the middle at DT, then adequate DE’s could provide a strong line under Buckner (see Vinny Curry from PHI mentioned before, or perhaps Connor Barwin on much cheaper 2 year deal). Ultimately, replacing GMC and his bloated salary with a fierce Geno Atkins here would be preferred.
It’s funny how some of these posts that people present are constantly replied to, others aren’t. For what reason dunno. Ehh, to each their own.
Here’s to hoping that Licht seeks out difference-makers.
February 25th, 2018 at 10:38 am
Hey @BucsalltheWay,
I would be in total agreement with even trading our #7 overall 1st rounder for Aaron Donald, and backing up the Brinks truck for him! When evaluating a trade, IMO, the analysis is simply would a team get the same relative near-term value in keeping that pick and using it in the draft versus what they would get out of obtaining that player (i.e. Donald for #7 overall, or Lev Bell for #7 overall pick–just examples). There’s no talent at #7 this year to outperform Donald or Lev Bell (Barkley close consideration and he won’t be there). Both make total sense for 3-5 year near-term future for Bucs.
Good idea..
February 25th, 2018 at 12:03 pm
Gholston needs to restructure and move to DT or get cut. He is useless at 4-3DE and overpaid either way.
Keep Ayers because he was effective when healthy, and we have no one else that can do what he does when he’s on the field.
I like NFLnuts’s idea of trading down with Bills and grabbing two DL there (Davenport/Key/Hubbard/Bryant). That would really really help us not just next year, but long term.
February 25th, 2018 at 12:06 pm
Do NOT give up ANY picks in trade before the draft. Period. We need all of our picks. If we trade, it should be to acquire picks.
February 25th, 2018 at 12:07 pm
I’d be calling the browns to offer McCoy for a first and second to get their 2nd first rounder. Especially since they’ll probably take Chubb with it.
February 25th, 2018 at 4:25 pm
David Irving is gonna be a FA as well if I remember right, I remember what he did to us 2 years ago, I like him enough to sign him.
February 25th, 2018 at 4:25 pm
No giving up draft picks, especially with a clueless GM. Need to get a back up QB, DE and CB in free agency and draft RB, OL and defense! Get the best players available for the next coaching staff and pray that JW grows up.
February 25th, 2018 at 5:22 pm
Pass Rush..??
We don’t need no stinkin’ Pass Rush..!!!
Bombs Away, Baby..!!
8-8 here we come.
February 25th, 2018 at 5:24 pm
trade a 3rd for David Irving
February 25th, 2018 at 5:48 pm
Quinn all day, should be able to get him for our 2nd, no way any 2nd round rookie would provide the type of impact Robert Quinn would give us for the next 3 years
February 25th, 2018 at 9:19 pm
any kickers worth taking in the second round this year?
February 26th, 2018 at 1:18 am
Pel,
No to giving up draft picks…….clueless GM!
Wow! You value draft picks……But not the guy in charge of using the picks. What value is a pick if the guy picking is clueless?
#1 contender for dumbest post. Congrats.
February 26th, 2018 at 4:38 pm
kony ealy