Josh Robinson And Coaching
February 7th, 2018
No laughing matter.
Those of you who read Joe regularly or listen to the great Ira Kaufman Podcast know Joe is really down on the Bucs’ secondary coaches.
Specifically, whoever has their mitts involved with corners.
Joe has concluded and repeatedly made the point that based on 32 games — a fair sample size — the current Bucs defensive staff cannot develop young corners. That’s one reason why Joe is pushing to trade for Aqib Talib.
Vernon Hargreaves has totally fallen off the map — from competent rookie to a slot corner at best. His play dropped off so much that he’s almost an afterthought, which is sad as hell.
Ryan Smith? Bucs coaches initially couldn’t figure out where to play him and, after urinating his rookie season away as a result, Smith showed limited progress if any last season.
Javien Elliott? In 2016, he looked like a gem of a find off the street by Bucs AC/DC-loving general manager Jason Licht. He too entered a witness protection program last year.
This fungus that has seemingly damaged young Bucs corners may not just be limited to dudes under 25. Take Josh Robinson, for example. Licht smartly plucked Robinson from the Vikings two years ago, mainly as a special teams player. And for the most part he has done very well with that.
However, Robinson was a starting cornerback for the Vikings. In 2013, Robinson started all 10 of his games. He started five games in 2014. And in 2015, Robinson did indeed play cornerback for Minnesota in a playoff game. He recorded two tackles in a critical fourth quarter series as the Vikings missed a game-winning field goal in a 10-9 loss to the Seahawks.
Robinson, in the past two seasons, didn’t take one defensive snap for the Bucs. Not once! As rotten as the Bucs were at cornerback last season, this got Joe’s attention.
So let Joe get this straight: One of the finest defensive coaches in the NFL (Vikings coach Mike Zimmer) found a way to get Robinson on the field in a key stretch of a playoff game, and get production from him, yet the Bucs with the worst pass defense in the NFL last year thought so little of Robinson he never took one defensive snap the entire season?
That should tell you something. It sure does for Joe.
February 7th, 2018 at 8:10 am
Every defender free agent, draft pick or hold over regresses playing on the cancer93 captained defense. That is why it’s such a joke when the crying clowns legion of nuthuggers led by joe constantly cry cancer93 needs help… They give him help every year and cancer93 sucks the life and will to win out of them. It’s hard to thrive in a man’s game when your defensive captain rather play with dolls thsn win on sundays.
February 7th, 2018 at 8:14 am
Why trade for Talib? It sounds like the Denver is going to release him.
February 7th, 2018 at 8:18 am
Phil
Bucs will have to trade or grossly overpay to get any quality player to come to this crapshow franchise which is the least desirable location in nfl for players coaches and front office personnel. No player is coming to tampa unless it’s his only offer or they way overpay.
February 7th, 2018 at 8:36 am
Kyle Fuller of Chicago is 25 and a free agent right now…the best out there if he hits free agency…
February 7th, 2018 at 8:45 am
Lol he was moved to safety classic move by the bucs trying to save money and roster spots thinking that are on the verge of the playoffs. Most franchises go get that guy to put them over the top these guys draft and assume rookies will be gold
February 7th, 2018 at 8:52 am
tmaxx
You must enjoy reading your own posts… because everyone else just ignores them.
Yawn!
February 7th, 2018 at 8:58 am
Trade: You know you’ve got him.
Free agency: You don’t know if you’ve got him.
February 7th, 2018 at 9:00 am
What this tells me Joe, is the better and more talented the vikings defense got, the less games and snaps he played.
February 7th, 2018 at 9:09 am
TMax…..You finally said something that I kind of agree with you on. I am afraid you may have something on players wanting to come to Tampa!!! Who would want to come to a team ranked 32nd and Coached by a clown that sits in the Press Box and watches the game and never changes a thing and wins 5 games and loses 11. They would have to pay me a lot of $$$$$ to get me to want to be a BUC!!!
February 7th, 2018 at 9:18 am
I am open to a trade for talib even if he is about to released.
If Denver has no other suitors bucs could get a steal of a trade. Denver either releases him for nothing, or gets a little from the Bucs.
I am down.
February 7th, 2018 at 9:21 am
yrbndr
Ignoring reality is a common theme amongst delusional optimists who refuse to accept reality.
February 7th, 2018 at 9:26 am
@yrbndr
You better check your tone kid!!!!! Tmaxcon is one of the “few” who when I disagree with, I go back and check my work!!!!!!!!!!!
Now go sit back to the kids table until you are called upon!!!!!!!!
Fix the “real” problems, the “trenches”!!!!!!!!
GO Bucs!!!!!!!!!!!!
February 7th, 2018 at 9:48 am
Tmaxi: you make that phone call yet?
February 7th, 2018 at 9:52 am
Agree with Realist. Until the lines are REALLY FIXED, the skill positions don’t mean sh1t.
February 7th, 2018 at 10:13 am
What Realist and Lunchbox just said. We don’t really know about our DB’s. Our non existent pass rush would make any DB look bad.
There is a reason raw meat rookies and backups have been able to beat us the past few years. Any NFL QB given 5 seconds or more will pick apart any NFL defense. Now forget raw meat rookies and imagine…Drew Brees…Cam and Matty Ice.
We must develop a pass rush and I fear if Noah does not come back healthy we’re behind the 8ball.
February 7th, 2018 at 10:16 am
slight correction Joe on this line “Ryan Smith? Bucs coaches initially couldn’t figure out where to play him”. Bucs coaches were very quick to decide to try and groom him as a safety. In fact was mentioned by Licht the day they drafted him “we see him as posibly being a safety”. Was definitley a mistake as Ryan Smith actually has some very good CB skills and lost his whole rookie year, then asked to step in as a first time NFL corner and start covering some really good NFL receivers while having no help what so ever on the Dline. Theres still some hope for Ryan Smith, he could suprise us. 1 year at corner under his belt, with some better Dline play, lets hope he progresses well.
February 7th, 2018 at 11:15 am
incompetence at its fineness!!!!!!
late waits too long to play barber…..smitty never plays robinson…..
and this staff returns for another heist….oh boy……
#NOEXCUSESIN2018!!!!!!….GO BUCS!!!!!
February 7th, 2018 at 12:09 pm
Heaven forbid our coaches actually, you know, coach!
And, I’ll second the notion that we are desperate for a pass-rush. Better pass-rush=better secondary.
February 7th, 2018 at 12:12 pm
The Tampa Bay Buccaneers are a Minor League Organization. If they were a member of the English Premier League. They would be Relegated, and probably never get back to the Big Leagues.
February 7th, 2018 at 12:17 pm
Man – when a Joe gets a strong notion in his head – he’s all in. IE: “the current Bucs defensive staff cannot develop young corners”.
Throwing Robinson out there as a so called “example” of this alleged inability to develop by Bucs DB coaches is quite the reach at best.
Robinson was a 3rd rd picks by the Vikings in 2012. As a 3rd rd pick – he was obviously going to get a chance to play and justify that somewhat valuable draft pick. He started 6 out of 16 games played his rookie year – and then 10 of 10 games played in 2013. But the following year (2014), he only started 5 of the 16 games he played in and then had zero starts in 2015 – his last year in Minnesota. Robinson came to the Bucs not having started a game at CB in 1 1/2 years and has been used sparingly at that position ever since he got here.
Despite his “experience” – Robinson was surpassed on the depth chart from the get-go by young UDFAs Jude Adjei-Barimah and Javien Elliot and has been the last man on the CB depth chart his entire time as a Buccaneer.
His value in this league is as a special teams specialist – a gunner specifically on punts and kickoffs – a role which Josh is very good at and one he is paid handsomely for.
Robinson obviously doesn’t have what it takes to line up and successfully cover NFL WRs on anything more than a spot basis – and there’s certainly no shame in that.
Josh Robinson has carved out a nice little niche for himself in the NFL by focusing on what he does best – special teams play.
So back to Joe’s contention – if anything, it was Minnesota coaches who couldn’t “develop” Robinson into an NFL starter his 1st 4 years in the league – but the reality is that he was never capable of being an NFL starter at CB and the only reason he got starts early in his career was because the Vikings were hurting at CB at the time and also certainly wanted to give their 3rd rd pick every opportunity to justify being picked that high – as many teams tend to do. Josh never met those 3rd rd pick “expectations” – falling into the category of “bust” in the Vikings eyes – and was not offered a 2nd contract with the team who drafted him when his rookie contract expired.
The Bucs signed him to a 1 year deal as an un-tendered FA because they had their own serious CB problems coming into 2016 and figured Josh could at least provide some experienced depth. Although Robinson hasn’t earned or played many live game snaps at CB – his development as a stand out ST player in 2016 was a nice surprise for the Bucs and earned Josh a 2 year, $5M contract w/ guarantees and a $250k signing bonus. This also allowed the Bucs to release previous ST standout Russell Shepard when Carolina offered him more than the Bucs were willing to pay for that role – a move which also freed up a spot at the somewhat log-jammed WR position heading into 2017.
So there’s the facts on Josh Robinson – and no where in that situation is the hint that the Bucs DB coaches ruined a promising starting NFL CB’s career…
Also Joe – saying that Ryan Smith “showed limited progress if any last season” is just plain not true. Most fans – like myself saw Smith improve a good bit over the course of his ‘rookie’ year at CB. And the expectation by most is that he will continue to improve.
Just sayin….
February 7th, 2018 at 12:37 pm
Pickgrin
Just sayin…indeed. Great post and pretty much covered Josh Robinson. I hadn’t really kept up with it as well as you and so I really appreciated that post.
February 7th, 2018 at 12:59 pm
Don´t give up on VHIII…….yet Joe….I preferr Fuller over Talib in case we resign Grimes. Everybody knows Talib is good, everybody knows he is stupid and bone head to…….
Dont like players that can get the locker room in danger….those stupid kids who express their complaints over the social media like Baker or TJ Ward …What happens on a team stays in the team, anything that can be a distraction I dont want them on a Bucs uniform, and Talib si one of those….I liked ASJ as a player a lot, but he was cancer so I am glad he is out………So please JW your are pretty close to be one of those, grow up, fom one and for all!!!!!
February 7th, 2018 at 1:28 pm
Pickgrin, that’s the best post I’ve seen in quite awhile. Still (Joe’s favorite word), recognize (like I have) that Joe won’t let facts get in the way. It’s not a T-A-L-E-N-T issue, it’s not a L-E-A-D-E-R-S-H-I-P issue, it’s a C-O-A-C-H-I-N-G issue, plain and simple.
February 7th, 2018 at 1:54 pm
Hey…here’s a wild thought. Maybe the two coaches that have pretty solid resumes of success are actually still competent coaches and maybe the GM that has never been an actual GM is giving them garbage talent and leaving holes in the roster that make it worse. We have ZERO pass rush…..let’s go 1st pick on a back up CB…..Bravo. If Licht is such a risk taker as he pretends to be, then trade up for Chubb just like the Falcons did for Julio Jones. He wont do that, he wont even reach in the 3rd rd on a DE but then gets cute trading for a kicker…..I’m going to use common sense and say the coaches didn’t forget how to coach and the GM who traded up for a kicker is an idiot.
February 7th, 2018 at 2:14 pm
Jason Licht is reaching into Phil Krueger territory.
Enough Said
February 7th, 2018 at 2:16 pm
Bobby says:
“the GM that has never been an actual GM is giving them garbage talent”
Um – are you in a time warp? That was Dom’s M.O.
Is Mike Evans Garbage talent?? Winston? Marpet? Kwon? You want me to keep going?… McDonald, Pamphile, Hump, Brate, Grimes, Hargreaves, Spence, Barber, DJax, Howard, J. Evans, Godwin, Beckwith, Auclair… Re-signed 2 cornerstones in GMC and LD54 to fair if not slightly less than market value long term, team friendly contracts.
Care to rethink that obviously false narrative Bobby?
And trading up to the top of the 1st rd for any player that does not have “QB” after his name is just downright stupid in this league.
February 7th, 2018 at 2:17 pm
Licht haters are not the brightest of Bucs fans…
February 7th, 2018 at 2:42 pm
NFL.Com Power Rankings
4. New Orleans
5. Atlanta
9. Carolina
23.Tampa Bay
February 7th, 2018 at 2:45 pm
Another curious issue in the secondary was Keith Tandy’s lack of playing time. The guy may well have been the defensive MVP in 2016 and, if nothing else, played a key role in the second half defensive turnaround. Yet, he could barely sniff the field in 2017. By all accounts, the guy outworks pretty much every player on the team not named Jameis Winston, and he was one of the best safety’s in the NFL in the second half of 2016. You mean to tell me he didn’t merit significant playing time in 2017 on the league’s worst pass defense?!?!?
I have ZERO expectations for 2017 because this staff has shown no ability to put its players in position to win AND because there are some very real issues with personnel evaluations on both sides of the ball(see also D. Martin).
February 7th, 2018 at 3:47 pm
bculaw…
I wouldn´t go everything on the staff…..We played with a injured QB, and with all his merits an imperfections and even during the season the UBER saga came in, I also think we do not have the talent that everybody think we have….we have in some specific areas like WR, TE and LB, our defense is bad…we brought TJ Ward and Baker as stars rememeber? where was ayers? We played with no running game, probably because we got surprisingly Howard on the draft……What happened with VH III?
I would spread out respnsbilities on players staff and on Light to……..
ANd I am far from giving up on the Bucs, pretty far from giving up.
February 7th, 2018 at 4:07 pm
Ryan Smith showed progress last year… he went from merely another 4th round bust to being the worst corner in the history of the team! But hey, he ran fast on punt coverage.
February 7th, 2018 at 4:12 pm
Fun fact….the two coaches everyone says can’t coach were selected and even given an extension by which genius GM?…If you guessed the same GM who wasted a 1st rd pick on a back up CB, 2nd rd pick on a kicker that’s out of the league, another 2nd rd on a TE that’s off the team, another 2nd rd on a DE that can’t get on the field, a 3rd rd pick on a 3rd down back and has a collective record as a GM of 22-42…while guiding the ship to 4th in the division 3 of 4 yrs….
So if you blame the coaches for being incompetent then that means the GM who signed them and even gave one an extension is the genius in all this?
February 7th, 2018 at 5:07 pm
Is all Joe is saying is show me some forward development,show me growth, show me improvement ………… Not lack there of !!! Not regression !!!
Joe you are Spot ON !!! Spot On !!!
Lotsa Lottsa Lotttsa lack of improvement and Lottsa regression and of course LOOK at the results !!!
Smitty is a Hell of a boxing coach / trainer ,,,but he’s not a corner man nor a fighter ……… And that is Lichts job to change but he doesn’t know how so he can’t, has never done it and probably never will as his GM career is prob on its last year !!! Licht is like Smitty great organization guy with great knowledge but he ain’t no GM, GM is much much more than a draft !!!
February 7th, 2018 at 5:15 pm
By the way GMC great play is more than penetration and a few splash max effort plays a game ,,,,,,,, The fans know how good you can be but mental toughness ,fight and desire are not your strengths !!! That’s what you were told by the other players last year they just said it differently !!! The whole league knows it but they are just nice Gerald !!!
Yes you are great !!! A few plays a game !!!
That’s why you have 30 tackles a year including sacks , Max effort a few times a game !!!
GMC could easily have 60 tackles if he would quit trying to look good and just man up and Ball out !!!
February 7th, 2018 at 8:34 pm
@ TMaxipad. Shut up already. You are the ONLY fool that believes anyone regresses because they play with GMC93. That’s why nobody takes your comments seriously. I just wish you would realize how foolish and crazy you sound. I will give you one thing tho, you sure are always good for a chuckle!😂
February 7th, 2018 at 8:43 pm
Lakeland
Your power rankings make me snooze. Do you recall the power rankings ahead of 2017?
5. Atlanta Falcons
11. Tampa Bay Bucs…yep you read that right
16. Carolina Panthers
20. New Orleans
27. PHILADELPHIA!!!!
My point being your power rankings are not worth the pixels you wasted to type them. The season hasn’t even started!
February 7th, 2018 at 8:43 pm
Oops
Here’s the link..
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2727332-nfl-power-rankings-2017-examining-best-teams-before-start-of-regular-season
February 7th, 2018 at 9:29 pm
Listen closely idiots, trading or signing a 32 year old corner is a exactly the kind of move that losers like the Bucs make, just like relying on a 34 year old declining $11 million a year WR VJax, a suspended ineffective 29 year old RB Drug Martin, a lazy non practicing DT looking for a vacation Swaggy, ghost Johnson, don’t know how to kick Aguayo this list goes on, stop hoping for garbage players