Defensive End Not A Need?
February 9th, 2018
Looking at needs.
Joe respects a lot of folks who work their rear ends off to bring us NFL information. But even some of the best get a head shake from Joe wondering what they are watching.
One guy Joe admires is smart Evan Silva of Rotoworld.com. The hours and amount of content that guy pumps out, he must really, really love his job.
Recently, Silva put out his list of needs for each team to fill this offseason, His needs for the Bucs, in order, are defensive back, running back and guard.
You see what is missing?
Joe isn’t sure how anyone could monitor the Bucs even casually and conclude the Bucs don’t need an edge rusher. Good grief, a backup defensive end off the street led all ends with 2.5 sacks (!) for the whole season. If that isn’t a need, then Joe doesn’t know what a need is.
And while Joe is on the subject, what is this sudden fetish with reaching for a guard at No. 7? The Bucs have major needs significantly greater than guard. Guard play is not why the Bucs lost 11 games last year.
If the Bucs (again) ignore a running back or a defensive end or even a corner at No. 7, Team Glazer may need to start drug testing folks. In fact, the State’s Attorney’s office may need to launch an investigation.
The only way Joe can stomach a guard at No. 7 is if Bucs’ AC/DC-loving general manager Jason Licht cleans out the Team Glazer vault and dumps the loot at the feet of Le’Veon Bell. If that happens, then yeah, reach for a guard at No. 7.
February 9th, 2018 at 12:38 am
U can’t pass on Nelson if he is there at seven. If the Defense staff can’t develop any rookies why pick a Defensibe player at 7? Nelson is a guard I would never reach for a guard at a 7 spot but damn can we dream? We dream of Chubb, Fitzpatrick, Barkely and we ain’t getting them either. Nelson is too good to pass up with so so Pamphile who didn’t completely beat Evan Smith for the job. But you got to have a good free agency, trades, cuts, and rest of draft
February 9th, 2018 at 12:41 am
I am wondering if the Glazers are ready to sell. They have not locked up any players in long term contracts. They are keeping the same inept coaching staff. They have lots of cap space. All of which would appeal to potential buyers.
February 9th, 2018 at 12:41 am
Joe (Lee?),
C’mon man. If Nelson is the best offensive lineman in the draft than you take him.
Why reach for a lesser talent.
How about we sign a FA at a need position like DE?
You know, Calais Campbell would’ve been a great pickup last year.
Don’t pick a lesser talented player just because you “need” a position
Our roster lacks talent for logic exactly like this.
February 9th, 2018 at 12:42 am
Moderation sucks. Hope my post makes it.
February 9th, 2018 at 12:42 am
Joe,
C’mon man. If Nelson is the best offensive lineman in the draft than you take him.
Why reach for a lesser talent.
How about we sign a FA at a need position like DE?
You know, Calais Campbell would’ve been a great pickup last year.
Don’t pick a lesser talented player just because you “need” a position
Our roster lacks talent for logic exac
February 9th, 2018 at 12:43 am
*thier
February 9th, 2018 at 12:44 am
No offense meant Mr. Silva but both Stevie Wonder and Mr. Magoo can clearly see that we need a DE. @Joe I’m with ya on drafting Nelson at #7 (especially if Chubb and Fitzpatrick are off the board) and we get L Bell. That improvement on offense we could be seriously lethal. Even if it didn’t get us into the playoffs (defense not improving again) the bucs would sure as heck be exciting to watch again and in 2019 draft & free agency we would literally have only the Defense to improve instead of both sides of the ball like some teams.
February 9th, 2018 at 1:02 am
Vita Vea is SLOW!!!
Dont draft him!
He is the next Danny Sheldon, the Browns top 15 pick.
A bust!
We need SPEED!
Draft SEC players!!!
February 9th, 2018 at 1:15 am
As of Feb. 9, what looks to be the best defensive end that will hit free agency is Adrian Clayborn.
Guard play is not — repeat, not — why the Bucs lost 11 games.
No running game, no edge rush and a sieve of a pass defense is why the Bucs lost 11 games.
February 9th, 2018 at 1:28 am
Sheldon Richardson
February 9th, 2018 at 1:45 am
@Teacherman, I’m not too worried about Vita being slow because he could make up for that by commanding double teams because of his size. What I would worry about and could not be for drafting him is that he’s coming from Washington to a brutally hot Tampa. Trying to practice and play in that COUPLED with him seeing that his defensive line mates, and likely the coaching staff aren’t very good his enthusiasm will be right out the window. Takes it right back to be let’s go all out on offense as we are a stellar RB and a better o-line groom being Incredible. the Defense just has to many holes to fix in one draft.
February 9th, 2018 at 1:46 am
Typo, from being
February 9th, 2018 at 2:00 am
Bucs need…
1. DE
2. DE
3. CB
4. S
5. CB
6. C
7. CB
8. DT
9. G
10. RB
Fix the offensive line and the awful play calling and the running game won’t be an issue. I’m not even a big Barber fan but the guy is OK – they need to get a vet as well, but Barber might be fine considering all the other talent on offense. Move Marpet back to G, then get a real center, then perhaps get another G – although I don’t think that’s a huge need.
February 9th, 2018 at 2:06 am
Joe – If Clayborn is the best out there at DE the Bucs need to swing or trade or switch to a 3-4 and try to bring pressure that way, or just say F it and go all in on offense and just try to put up a ton of points. Easier said than done, but I really don’t see who is out there that is a difference maker so Dirk and Smith might have no choice but to be creative with what they got on D and stack the O.
February 9th, 2018 at 3:56 am
Nelson isn’t “reaching”… OG might not be our top need, but Nelson is arguably one of the top 5 players in the draft.
Reaching would be Marcus Davenport. The only DE worth that high of a pick is Chubb. DT Vita Vea might end up being the best value/need combo when we’re on the clock.
February 9th, 2018 at 4:12 am
I can actually believe Evan Silva of Rotoworld.com point however I am not in complete agreement with him about the priority being defensive back, running back and guard. I would go CB, G, DT. When you look at the DE position the Bucs have starters in William Gholston and Robert Ayers and back-ups Noah Spence and Pat O’Conner. At CB if Brent Grimes is not re-signed we have Hargreaves and Smith, Jude Adjei-Barimah and Javien Elliott. Guard is slim and DT the same. I have found a DE that has caught my eye who is a a FA and our GM should try to make an offer for him. DE Chris Smith (6-3 266) Bengals. Smith had 26 tackles, 3 sacks, 1 FF and 2 PD last year. Smith is only 25 and showcased his skills in pre-season last year. His run stop percentage of 20.0 percent was third-best at his position and produced a sack on limited snaps in Week 3, but in Weeks 1 and 2, he totaled 14 total pressures. The Bengals picked him up in a trade from the Jaguars last year and you know how hard it would be to get starting snaps on that team and even on the Bengals. Smith was the Bengals’ top pass rusher against the Buccaneers earning a mark of 89.4 from Pro Football Focus, which is a very solid grade. Check out Smith below –
https://twitter.com/JoeGoodberry/status/899467051017940993
February 9th, 2018 at 4:17 am
If Chubb is off the board, we help in our secondary. Derwin James fits the bill and is quite the playmaker. He can play both S and CB and disrupts the opposing offenses. Vita Vea is slow ans hurt. Address the OL and DL in free agency in later rounds. If Grimes goes we are fvckened unless we get a decent S/FS/CB. James can play all of those positions. Just my two cents.
Carry on.
February 9th, 2018 at 5:09 am
Bucs are either serious about fixing the DLine & Secondary or they’re not. There’s no middle ground here. We saw what last year’s group brought; 2018 will be more of the same if we don’t make SIGNIFICANT improvements (spelled UPGRADES). Free agency simply doesn’t have enough quality DLinemen to help us much, even if we could throw enough $$$ at them & sign them. Invest in DEFENSE, especially with our top picks, or we’ll be toast for years to come. Top pick: DE, DT or CB.
February 9th, 2018 at 6:33 am
The Bucs will need 2 drafts to fix O and D lines … build through the draft and then KEEP your talent… how would Clayborn and Bennett look at DE compared to what Bucs have now? Oline may have been effective in pass protection, but was a total failure in creating running lanes on a consistent basis, irregardless of poor running back play…
February 9th, 2018 at 6:50 am
Anyone who says vita vea is slow is smoking dope.
6-5 ….340 to 350. Sure those guys arent supposed to run 4.5. He is expected to run sub 5 range though. Again. He is 340 – 350 lbs and played special teams for Washington.
He is the strongest player in the draft. He will absolutely stop the run up the middle which we struggled with and he can get to the qb unlike most dt Players like him don’t come around to often.
Gotta build the trenches. After combine and private workouts , he will be in our range .
February 9th, 2018 at 7:28 am
Joe, it wasn’t a priority list…just a list of needs in general. lol
February 9th, 2018 at 7:29 am
And he mentioned an edge rusher and a potential Swaggy Tree Humper replacement…..wasn’t forgotten.
February 9th, 2018 at 7:30 am
” A fourth Bucs need is defensive line, where 2017 free agent pickup DT Chris Baker disappointed and another speed rusher would come in handy off the edge.” – Evan Silva
February 9th, 2018 at 7:35 am
Vita Vea equals Danny Sheldon.
You will see.
February 9th, 2018 at 7:36 am
Re-Sign
Will Clarke
Sign
Denico Autry
Acquire via Trade
David Irving (For 2019 3rd Pick + Kendall Beckwith)
Potential Cap Casualty Candidate
Michael Bennett
Draft
• Duke Ejiofor, DE, Wake Forest
• B.J. Hill, NT, N.C. State
• Kemoko Turay, DE, Rutgers
• Kendrick Norton*, NT, Miami
New Front 7 Rotation
LDE Michael Bennett | Duke Ejiofor | Will Clarke
LDT Gerald McCoy | William Gholston
RDT B.J. Hill | Kendrick Norton
RDE David Irving | Denico Autry
WLB Lavonte David | Devante Bond
MLB Kwon Alexander | Adarius Glanton
LEO Noah Spence | Kemoko Turay
Note: Restructure Gerald McCoy & William Gholston contract
February 9th, 2018 at 7:39 am
Davenport or Vea in the first, whoever is less of a stretch which after the combine I think both players plan on flying many people’s boards.
G Will Hernandez in the second. Played LG in college but I think he would pan out as a top notch RG. This kid will immediately bring a nastiness to our Oline that sweezy was supposed to. Should upgrade our running game as well.
February 9th, 2018 at 7:46 am
On a..Normal team without many needs I’d say take a guard at 7. But with our Bucs and their bottom of the barrell ranked Defense, I’d say trade down if possible and get the..2 for 1 deal.
February 9th, 2018 at 8:02 am
Take great players when they are available. Don’t pick for need in the top 10. But beyond that absolutely pick for need. Example would be don’t draft a 3rd linebacker when you need a RB or DE. So draft best player in round 1 regardless of position, outside of QB of course, then draft the the best available at DE, RB, G, CB or S the rest of the way. This is what the best teams do over and over, it really isn’t that hard.
February 9th, 2018 at 8:06 am
Joe Says:
February 9th, 2018 at 1:15 am
How about we sign a FA at a need position like DE?
As of Feb. 9, what looks to be the best defensive end that will hit free agency is Adrian Clayborn.
Guard play is not — repeat, not — why the Bucs lost 11 games.
No running game, no edge rush and a sieve of a pass defense is why the Bucs lost 11 games.
———————————-
Thanks for the reply, Joe. Hearing that Clayborn is the best FA on the market only adds insult to injury for neglecting to sign Calais Campbell last year. What the hell is Licht thinking.
February 9th, my birthday. All I wan for my birthday is for the Bucs to get their act together and stop tripping over their d!cks at every turn. Very frustrating being a fan to this sh!t show.
Can the Joes please do a Free Agency Poll once we know who is going to hit the market? That way there can be factual documentation of what the “bucs should do” vs. what those losers actually do.
I will believe it when I see it. No excuses this year, make it happen…
Win some games, and stop sucking please.
February 9th, 2018 at 8:08 am
And, sorry for the negativity fellow fans. I am just enraged that we have sucked since Chucky left, outside of 2010.
We are only one season better than Cleveland in regards to the last time we made it to the post season. That is go awful.
Can we get some Greg Schiano, “Trust-Belief-Accountability”? I trust and believe in the Bucs, but NO ONE OVER THERE IS HELD ACCOUNTABLE.
February 9th, 2018 at 8:10 am
You draft the best damn player available at #7.
IF you are hell bent on a certain postion, then trade the eff down.
I would rather Licht draft BPA, as the last time he selected a defensive player in the first round, #11 overall, they’ve sucked balls.
February 9th, 2018 at 8:29 am
I agree DE is the top need, but our guards are terrible. Marpet was great at guard, but we turned him into a mediocre center. We need 2 guards or a guard and a center if we move Marpet back (which we should). Furthermore, the only guy I’d take over Nelson is Chubb. if Chubb is gone, I sure hope we take a phenomenal talent like Nelson instead of reaching for a premium position with a second tier prospect.
February 9th, 2018 at 8:35 am
If the Bucs acquire a DE in trade or FA, then they can trade down (multiple times) and shore up both lines, CB and Safety for years to come.
February 9th, 2018 at 8:40 am
Stevie Wonder asks,”Are you freakin’ blind?!”
“Not a need”?! Yea, someone clearly hasn’t been watching.
February 9th, 2018 at 8:41 am
I’m not sure why so many here have given up on Ali at Center. Koetter repeatedly said that Marpet graded out at the top of the OL. It was his first year in the position. Again Kevin Mawae moved from guard to Center in his 3rd year and is an HOF finalist.
I agree with StevieK that in the first round at least you need to take the BPA or trade down. It’s all a crap shoot and if you’re not going to enhance your odds with a BPA then go all Beathard and trade down for multiple picks.
Our defensive backfield is not nearly the need as a pass rush…PERIOD. I wouldn’t even care if we spent all seven picks trading up to get Chubb and Vea.
If we had those two and imagine if Noah heals…all of the sudden we can produce a little pressure. The current group of DB’s would suddenly look a lot better if they didn’t have to chase NFL WR’s for five seconds or more.
We can find an RB….DB is the easiest…simply re-sign Grimes…get Talib or one of the other solid FA DB’s available and we do not need to waste any draft picks this year.
February 9th, 2018 at 8:45 am
Mount Vea!!! In the first
February 9th, 2018 at 8:50 am
@Meh … “We need 2 guards or a guard and a center if we move Marpet back (which we should).” Guard & Center sounds good to me Meh, with Marpet moving back to RG. Look at FA … there are several very good LGs & Centers potentially coming onto the market. The most appealing LG to me is Andrew Norwell from the Panthers (bet that would PO Carolina). Several Centers available in FA would represent good upgrades. point being: fix the OLine in free agency, plus hopefully grab 1 starting outside CB there (plus Brent Grimes), then focus the draft on DEFENSE and add a RB in Round 3 or 4.
February 9th, 2018 at 8:51 am
Vita vea is slow and he’s Sheldon. You guys pick up anything off the internet and run with it. Slow compared to what a linebacker or cornerback? That’s stupid and he’s disruptive and highly productive. Here’s right at the line of scrimmage so what kind of 40 time would he need
Yet every one of you were clamoring for the Chris Baker signing who was what day and slow. That’s what you do look at a players speed not the plays he makes because that’s what’s most important.
February 9th, 2018 at 9:29 am
im all for nelson @ #7…..we need to add youth and talent to both LOS…..and if we have a dominate oline, we wont need a player like bell….we could roll with barber and guice….
#NOEXCUSESIN2018!!!!….GO BUCS!!!!
February 9th, 2018 at 9:30 am
stevek Says:
February 9th, 2018 at 8:08 am
Can we get some Greg Schiano, “Trust-Belief-Accountability”? I trust and believe in the Bucs, but NO ONE OVER THERE IS HELD ACCOUNTABLE.
^^BINGO^^
#NOEXCUSESIN2018!!!!….GO BUCS!!!!
February 9th, 2018 at 9:44 am
It was said during the broadcast of this year’s Super Bowl that the Eagles had arguably the best offensive line in the league. Pairing Nelson with Marpet could go a long way toward establishing a formidable o-line for us for the next ten years. Improvement there should immediately make our current running backs “better.” D-line help should come with free agency, the draft, and hopefully a returning and healthy Noah Spence.
February 9th, 2018 at 9:57 am
813 BucBoi,
Great point about LOS talent.
If we reach in the 1st for a DE, to me, that makes the Calais Campbell gaffe resurfaced.
Not only did we fail to sign that man beast, but we are reaching in future drafts to plug up silly holes.
If the Bucs can’t turn it around this year, then they really should hire Joe Schmo Fan to assist with talent on the roster. We can’t be worse.
I would’ve poured all resources into signing a DE last year. I also would have selected Aaron Donald over Mike Evans, and I don’t give a phuck if GMC would’ve refused to move. May the best SOB play the position. Politics in football is BS especially when we are the Tampa Bay Browns Light.
February 9th, 2018 at 10:00 am
It would be utterly stupid to take a news position over the most talented.
Look at Dominik taking Mark Barron bc “we need a guy to cover TEs in the NFC South”, and passing on Luke Keuchly.
Dumb arse moved like that don’t have a place for this franchise anymore.
Trench warfare is the way to go, and it always starts up front. Always.
February 9th, 2018 at 10:00 am
A need positin*
February 9th, 2018 at 10:06 am
“what is this sudden fetish with reaching for a guard at No. 7?”
Its not a “reach” to draft Nelson in the top 10. If Chubb, Barkley and Minkah are off the board you take the best player available.
Anyone who thinks an upgrade at Guard is not necessary for the Bucs to be successful on offense this year has NO idea what they are looking at on a football field.
Quenton Nelson is considered a generational Guard talent and easily the best OLine player in this draft.
Joes are taking this “OLine is fine” thing way too far.
If you want Winston to stay upright/healthy and the run game to have a chance at success – then the OLine MUST be upgraded. Both Guard spots specifically.
Chubb is our guy if he happens to slip to #7 – but that seems pretty unlikely. Gotta go BPA with the #7 overall pick if no trade down offers develop – unless you come from the Mark Dominik school of drafting that is…. (involuntary shudder)
February 9th, 2018 at 10:29 am
stevek
your right….
if we pick a DE 1st round and he only produces say 3 sacks(which is expected from a rookie) then that makes whiffing on CC even worse….which really isn’t fair to ask a rookie DE to become the savior of the defense(that has 4current/former pro bowlers) but that’s what everyone wants….for a rookie to save the defense….
and if they glazer and GM selected passed on aaron because of GMC and his feeling being hurt then they’re in the wrong business…..this is about wins…..we’ve lost too many games with GMC…aaron could’ve been the “help” everyone says GMC needs…..imo great players make those around him better and no one around GMC has gotten better….but that’s a story for another day….
good teams/organizations find a way to win….bad teams find excuses…..
#NOEXCUSESIN2018!!!!!….GO BUCS!!!!!
February 9th, 2018 at 1:15 pm
It’s evident …. no national news service watches the Bucs. They read other people’s work and then fudge the opinions to write stories like this.
February 9th, 2018 at 1:18 pm
With 1st round pick we can’t afford to reach or gamble on a player panning out at a need position. Imo , best player available@ 7 and if it’s Nelson. Doesn’t that help run game? As Joe states part of reason we lost 11 games were running game, pass rush issies. But at #7 if we can get a all pro guard, doesnt that boost rushing attack, and help keep the franchise #3 upright? So IMO its more of a reach to pass on Nelson for a lesser edge rusher who is not projected as a top 5 player. Again, ALL OUR PROBLEMS CAN’T BE FIXED WITH ONE DRAFT, so I am all for at least adding best guard prospect of the century. 2nd round maybe a stud rb is there, or a De with pass rush ability. And if we can get a TRUE center in draft with some bite, several are available rounds 2-4 our offensive line is fixed and then hopefully next year can work wonders on defensive line. But the oline looks much better in this draft class.
February 9th, 2018 at 2:33 pm
It’s not a guard fetish Joe, it’s a Quenton Nelson fetish.
He is a legit top 3-5 player overall in this draft. The pick might sting a little bit that night but look at how Dallas and Tennessee have built their lines. Think Taylor Lewan, think Zack Martin, this guy is on that level of prospect.
February 9th, 2018 at 4:15 pm
Birdman – Only 3 guards have been drafted in the top 10 since the year 2000, and all 3 were busts for the teams that drafted them. Drafting a guard in the top 10 is very risky since you can get all-pro guards in the 2nd and 3rd all day long. For a pick that high to make any sense at guard the kid could need to be near an all-pro from day one – and because of the way salaries at slotted I don’t think the Bucs would even get any cap relief out of it since he’d be paid like one of the best guards in the game form day 1.
February 9th, 2018 at 5:32 pm
******************
Silva probably just had a brain cramp … it happens.
However, JOE … Quenton Nelson is NOT “a reach” … he’s considered, along with Saquon Barkley as the biggest “sure thing” in the entire draft.
If Barkley and Chubb are off the board, the ONLY player I would even consider taking ahead of Quenton Nelson is Minkah Fitzpatrick … there is NO WAY I would “reach” on a non-Chubb-DE or non-Saquon-RB or CB over Quenton Nelson … NO WAY!
I would however, consider TRADING DOWN from #7 to the #21 and #22 with the Bills!
*******************
February 9th, 2018 at 7:28 pm
I’m afraid that idiot Licht, is behind all the, we don’t a DE sentiment! Don’t draft one and You will wish you did. God not another year with these clowns.
February 10th, 2018 at 10:34 am
Lame take, Joe.
February 11th, 2018 at 1:03 am
If the Bucs can sign Rashaan Melvin (6-2 193) it would be a great addition. He started all 10 games he played in, recording 36 tackles, three interceptions, and a team-leading 13 passes defensed. Melvin started nine games for the Colts in 2016 as well. This year, he currently is PFF’s No. 19-graded corner. Sign him and Talib.
Davenport or Vea in the first would be a total reach at seven. If Chubb is gone Nelson is the pick.