Communicate
February 17th, 2018
Jameis should speak up more.
Joe thought one of the biggest BS stories to sift out of One Buc Palace last year was a claim of friction between America’s Quarterback, Pro Bowler Jameis Winston, and Bucs coach Dirk Koetter.
Why does Joe think it was BS? Well, first, Jameis and Koetter adamantly, vehemently denied anything of the sort.
Second, without going into great detail, Joe has never heard of a quarterback-head coach/offensive coordinator duo not butting heads from time to time. The NFL is littered with stories of QBs and their coaches clashing, from Vince Lombardi and Bart Starr to Chucky and Rich Gannon.
This is nothing new. In fact, Joe might be suspicious if Jameis and Koetter never had words. But that doesn’t mean the two have a healthy, fully open line of communication, and that communication may be lacking from Jameis’ end, so types Jenna Laine of ESPN.
Though team officials will never admit this, there is way too much smoke that Jameis actually first hurt his throwing shoulder not at Arizona, but at Minnesota, the second game of the season. Joe first heard chatter about this back in October. Laine mentioned it in a recent article and she suggests Jameis tried to tough it out and mask his injury.
Then there were reports of a growing rift between Winston and Koetter, stemming from Winston feeling that his coach didn’t have his back during the injury and frustration over Koetter’s lack of creativity in his playcalling. Publicly, Winston denied that a rift existed, and Koetter called their relationship “extremely consistent.” Sources close to the situation suggest the two need to work on their communication.
The 2017 season was the first time Winston had missed a game, at any level, due to injury. Sources say he hurt his throwing shoulder in a Week 3 loss to the Vikings, but he didn’t show up on the injury report until Week 7. It was a new experience for him, but Winston needed to communicate to the coaching staff how he was feeling. If he didn’t feel that his deep ball was there, he needed to let them know. As a third-year quarterback, he had more of a say in the game plan. Yet young, highly competitive players don’t usually advocate for themselves, and it’s up to the coaching staff to recognize when they’re limited by injuries.
Koetter did Winston no favors by having him attempt 82 passes — second most in the league — in the two weeks following the hit by Chandler Jones in a Week 6 loss to the Cardinals that worsened his shoulder issues. And 22 of those attempts were for 15 or more air yards. Plenty of games have been won by throwing underneath and moving the ball incrementally down the field. If Winston is to improve, he and Koetter have to develop a more open dialogue.
One could argue Koetter should have been the adult in the room and benched Jameis due to the injury immediately. But let’s be honest here, Koetter isn’t a mind-reader. If his quarterback, doctors and trainers claimed Jameis was good to go, what was Koetter supposed to do?
Yes, Jameis looked anything but hurt the way he played at Buffalo.
In-season practices are closed except for the opening half hour when media gets to watch riveting activities like stretching. So we don’t know what Jameis looked like throughout practice. If practice throws looked odd, then that should have been a tip off. Again, Joe is just guessing here. It’s likely Jameis looked fine in practice.
Yeah, after the Arizona game one could argue Koetter was playing with fire by not sitting Jameis. But if Jameis didn’t tell Koetter his wing was compromised in the Vikings game (remember Jameis didn’t have enough juice on his fastball when DeSean Jackson broke open for what looked to be a touchdown throw?), then Jameis should have been upfront with Koetter.
Jameis should know the team will go only as far as he can take the Bucs. If he wasn’t well enough to play, he should have been a man and told Koetter. Only the crazies among Bucs fans would have held a grudge.
February 17th, 2018 at 8:09 am
And koetter was right…. theres ways people should communicate … not run mouth to the outside… man to man…. i defend what koetter said in his press conference on this… and monken earned my respect on his
February 17th, 2018 at 8:40 am
I’m of the mind that the less JW says the better.
How about concentrating on holding on to the football?
Or is that issue “shoulder-related” too?
February 17th, 2018 at 9:00 am
Jamies is a diehard competitor…
Most athletes in general, especially football players have a gladiators mentality. “Tapping out” is admitting defeat so unfortunately they have to be saved from themselves. Jameis falls into this category; if you’ve never missed a game due to injury, the last thing he wants is to be forced to sit and watch. Like Joe touched on, the coaches and trainers have to do a better job of evaluating these players during the week. That said, the player also has to be honest as well and let someone know that he doesn’t feel right; this is necessary to make sure the proper steps can be taken to ensure that he isn’t risking further injury to himself or the team…
February 17th, 2018 at 9:02 am
DOOSHLARIE: In a roundabout way yes not holding on to the ball was “shoulder-related.” Due to the bummed shoulder he couldn’t make all the throws he normally would have. Add that to the fact that we had no running game to rely on for most of the season. For these reasons Jameis was put into a situation where he tried to do what he’s done successfully his whole life, win the game by putting the team on his shoulders. The vast majority of his mistakes come from trying to do to much. Hard to blame him for trying to win the game himself when Doug Martin averaged 2 yds per carry this year and still started most games. And lastly, the o-line while for the most part was solid this year, gave up some egregious sacks that led to strips. So we’re some fumbles his fault, sure. Where all of them, no.
February 17th, 2018 at 9:05 am
We all know that committed players don’t take themselves out of games and if they are subpar, they should.
Q: 1. Will this injury be recurring, or is it repaired and “fixed”?
2. Can the DRs repair his interfumblecampus, the part of the brain that is responsible for throwing interceptions and dropping the ball on the ground? It seems to be hyperactive.
February 17th, 2018 at 9:16 am
Maybe if jameis threw a crying tantrum on the sidelines koetter would have realized jameis was more injured. obviously that is how the highest paid team captain reacts to boo boos
February 17th, 2018 at 9:21 am
@JJoe … “Jameis should know the team will go only as far as he can take the Bucs.” Uhhh, that’s not Jameis’ call. If the Bucs sign a decent backup (like the Eagles did?) then there’s no reason to expect the Bucs to fold every time Jameis comes out for whatever reason. Fitz was a very good example this past season. He went 2-1 in games he started, and also played quite well when he relieved Jameis in the 2nd half of the Cardinals game. Jameis is an important piece of the puzzle, but he’s still JUST ONE PIECE of that puzzle.
February 17th, 2018 at 9:35 am
As BuccLock stated…
Many of Jamies turnovers/mishaps occur when trying to do to much…This is 100% truth…
Jamies is a young gun, who has supreme confidence in his arm and his ability to will his team to a victory…Jamies will never let a play die, this can be good and bad…In many was he reminds me of a young Brett Favre…Jamies just needs to simply learn to manage a football game better, this will come with age. This is were play calling comes in; we can’t keep asking this kid to throw the football 30+ times every week at this point in his career. In actuality, Jamies should be throwing 25 to 30 times per game max. That said, for this strategy to work, we must make sure he’s protected at all times with outstanding line play and a solid running game…
February 17th, 2018 at 10:01 am
Defense rules
Exactly. I am a big jameis fan but fitz went 2-1 and did his job quite well. And dirk didnt help either one of them out much with a running game. He abandoned the run because he decided to play a rb who somehow lost his way and couldnt get 3 yards a pop. Winston and the offense will be fine if dirk gets back to being balanced. Gota be a top 10 rushing team. The team is only going as far as the defense and run game really. Without big improvements on D theres no way they have a chance regardless if winston has an all pro year or not. Lets hope mike smith gets much more creative next season.
February 17th, 2018 at 10:03 am
D R
Jameis is the most important buc and will soon pass the underachievers as the greatest buc of all time. It’s not like it’s a high standard to surpass
February 17th, 2018 at 10:05 am
Ryan fitz > jameis Winston
February 17th, 2018 at 10:07 am
Win a division, Get to the playoffs if you can’t do that, what you doin here? There is nothing wrong with the offense. Jacsonville would have luved to have it. Koetter needs a course on situational..game adjustment football. He sucks at it. And jamesi just needs to continue growing. I won’t comment on our, Ghost of a Defense.
February 17th, 2018 at 10:18 am
Dooshlarue
Shoulder issue equals weakened arm strength…so yes, it was.
February 17th, 2018 at 10:44 am
Your take on this Joe is STUPID. Sorry if that hurt your feelings, but it cannot be helped.
February 17th, 2018 at 11:39 am
“Most athletes in general, especially football players have a gladiators mentality. “Tapping out” is admitting defeat so unfortunately they have to be saved from themselves.”
I agree completely with OneBuCC55!
We know Jameis fierce competitive nature. It’s certainly not in his makeup to as OneBuc said…”tap out”. That’s just soooo not Jameis and let’s be honest…like so many double edged swords in his personality…yeah it has a downside but I think most of us really admire that. Its like giving him some slack on trying to hard and not giving up on a play. Yeah there are some really brain dead mistakes made there but it’s hard to criticize a kid for freaking “trying too hard”.
He’s growing and learning and I see the progress. It seems this board breaks down into three basic groups. Those who simply do not like Jameis for whatever reasons…off field…his personality…his style on the field…those who LOVE Jameis no matter what he does…and the third group including me. Those who admire his potential and drive and his POSITIVE attitude but concede he needs to continue learning his craft.
He’s not there yet but he’s certainly on schedule IMHO.
February 17th, 2018 at 12:54 pm
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IMHO Jameis needs to go full LeBron and start RUNNING THINGS in Tampa … start demanding hirings and firings, trades and the like … Licht doesn’t have to “obey” him on every thing but Jameis needs to at the very least make it known he considers this HIS TEAM and if things are not done the right way, he will refuse to sign any extension the Bucs offer him, force them to franchise him in the 2020 season and then BOLT for greener pastures in 2021!
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February 17th, 2018 at 1:13 pm
NFLNut
Don’t disagree but while he’s not gone LeBron how do we know that he doesn’t have both Licht and Koetter’s ear behind the scenes. We do know for example that #3 wanted DJAX and was pretty open about it. DJAX shows up as our #1 FA acquistion.
Of course basketball is totally different. ONE player is HUGE..and while NFL QB’s are important they do not impact a team like a Lebron or Durant or even some guards like Curry and Harden.
Football is the ultimate team sport and even QB’s have limited leverage. Still it’s an interesting concept to consider. Just how much leverage does #3 have at this point in his career.
The SINGLE player with absolutely the most leverage is of course Tom Brady. Tough for him though because the SINGLE coach with the most leverage is his…Belicheat.
And so when Belicheat reportedly told friends he could win a SB with Garrapolo Brady got his knickers in a twist and lo and behold Garrapolo is now a 49er.
Still Belicheat held on to Garappolo until mid season to make sure Brady’s 40 year old body was still up to it. Cost the Pats big time…they only got a 2nd rounder for him…most experts believe they would have gotten a lot more for him if they had made the trade before the season started.
Whatever I suspect we agree that the drama now playing out in NE is growing more exciting by the year. Brady wants to play till 45…Belicheat could care less he simply wants to win. If he perceives that Brady is over the hill we will be forced to watch the prospect of him playing out his career outside NE.
For all I may dislike about Belicheat’s personality he is a cold blooded WINNER.
If Brady loses a step Belicheat will not hesitate to make a move…past SB’s will be forgotten. Belicheat is the late Al David prototype….Just win baby!
February 17th, 2018 at 1:23 pm
^ I LOVE Bill Bellichick and honestly would have loved to see the Pats keep Jimmy G and then start him in the playoffs when Brady hurt his hand … all the way through the SuperBowl … and then sign him to an extension and TRADE BRADY … THAT would have made for some great entertainment.
February 17th, 2018 at 1:28 pm
STPETE,
You’re spot-on with your take on the power QBs have compared to NBA superstars and I don’t believe Jameis will ever actually have the power LeBron has, but it would be interesting to see him start flexing and using whatever influence he does have on the team.
I know Jameis is a team-first and “family” kind of guy who has always been loved by his teammates and coaches, but I also know he wants to win and is as competitive as they come, so I do expect him to flex on the team at some point … he may be waiting until he signs a long-term extension to really lay down the law though …
February 18th, 2018 at 1:19 pm
Jameis Winston is not on LeBron James’ level. Lol
Jameis Winston is about at Anthony Davis’ level.
If anyone can be on Lebron’s level, it’s aaron Rodgers.
February 18th, 2018 at 10:31 pm
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STEVEK,
Please try to debate like an adult. It’s childish to debate against a statement I never made.
I NEVER said Jameis was on LeBron James level. I said he should pull a LeBron, flex the muscle he has in the organization and try to start running things.
In fact, I think YOU are greatly overestimating Jameis if you think he’s on Anthony Davis’ level as a player … how’s that? You and others like to pretend I’m a Jameis homer and I’m telling you that you must believe Jameis is way better than I do if you already put him on Anthony Davis’ level as a player.
Anthony Davis is the best big man in the NBA right now. Jameis is NOT on Anthony Davis’ NBA level in the NFL … not yet anyways.
If I were to pick an NBA parallel for Jameis, it would be Devin Booker who is playing in his 3rd season now and has all the talent and skills necessary to become the best SG in the NBA and one of the best of all-time, yet plays on a horrible team, is in a small market and doesn’t get the recognition he deserves. If I have to pick a “big man”, I’d go with Karl Anthony Towns who just made his 1st all-star team and is also in his 3rd season, has the skill-set and talent to be an all-time great but has a major weakness (defense) as Jameis has with turnovers, and was drafted by a bad franchise.
As for which NFL player is on LeBron’s level, the answer is no one … in fact no one is even remotely close, nor could anyone be as LeBron represents 20% of his team while on the court and any QB represents just 1/22 starting players and that’s not even including the special teams. It’s simple math.
As for which NFL player is closest to LeBron in terms of being able to exercise control over an organization … I’d say it would be Aaron Rodgers but reports are that he doesn’t even try to exercise any control and even that he doesn’t even really want to play in Green Bay, so … again, the answer is no one is even close and the ONLY guy in recent memory that was even remotely close was Peyton Manning in his prime with the Colts.
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