Stolen Bouquet
January 14th, 2018
Ex-Bucs and Patriots guard Logan Mankins
How bout that 24-year-old starting defensive end on the Patriots!
Do you know how New England acquired Trey Flowers?
Joe does, and the reminder had Joe dry-heaving all night and this morning.
Flowers was the second overall pick in Round 4 of the 2015 NFL Draft. The Patriots pounced on the senior out of the University of Arkansas. He’s got 13 1/2 sacks over the past two regular seasons and has moved into a full-time-starter role. After yesterday’s effort, Flowers now has 3 1/2 sacks through four playoff games.
Flowers arrived via the draft pick Tampa Bay sent to New England with tight end Tim Wright for Logan Mankins.
Why did the Bucs make that trade? They were desperate because Bucs guards Oneil Cousins and Jamon Meredith were so scary bad in the 2014 preseason, general manager Jason Licht and Lovie Smith were desperate.
Mankins was bad at left guard for the Bucs in 2014, but he was a Pro Bowler the following season and helped lead Donovan Smith and Ali Marpet to rapid development as rookies. And then he quit.
Of course, Licht belted a grand slam in the 2015 draft. So Joe’s not saying here that Licht bombed the draft. Flowers’ history just illustrates how building a team is a series of events. Literally every move or non-move has major ramifications if you’re willing to study it.
In that 2014 season, the Bucs’ starting right guard for 16 games was then 24-year-old Patrick Omameh. You can watch him start today on the Jaguars’ mauling offensive line against the Steelers.
Yesterday, you also got to see Eagles center/guard Stefen Wisniewski, starting left guard on arguably the NFL’s best offensive line. He came to Tampa on a free agent visit in 2015, but left without a deal. Nearly a month later, he signed with the Jaguars. The 28-year-old has missed just two games in three years.
Bucs history is a place open for a lot of interpretation.
January 14th, 2018 at 9:08 am
Joe if you keep highlighting these front office failures I’m gonna be more tempted to stop watching this team – I’m already on the fence after repeated years of losing and failures with picking bad coaches and GM gaffes.
I need a beet salad….
January 14th, 2018 at 9:15 am
No worries…the Bucs would not have drafted Trey Flowers for whatever reason….kind of like Joe and Rachael
January 14th, 2018 at 9:44 am
This whole organization just flats sucks and it’s getting old fast. Watching these games are infuriating cause under no circumstance can you see our defense evening slowing down any of these teams even the one dimensional Titans. It’s just sucks how bad these guys are at their jobs. I honestly feel half the people on this board could do a better job than Jason Licht and I’m not even kidding.
January 14th, 2018 at 9:47 am
Our legacy is just a constant stream of “what if’s” I can’t stand this damn team
January 14th, 2018 at 9:57 am
Altered Ego right on, whatever the bucs dont need lcht would have addressed ptobably some long snapper from univ of botswana
January 14th, 2018 at 10:00 am
Licht probably would have sent that 4th rounder with the 3rd to go up and get marpet had they still had it anyway. He loves to trade picks, which is the one thing about him Im not crazy about. Every traded pick has a big effect as we see here. Plus licht hasnt exactly hit on many 4th round or later picks, which i put mostly on coaching staff. Kwon is really only one but even he seems to be slightly regressing under this putrid defensive coordinator. I hope this is the year licht trades down when possible and gets more picks rather than giving up picks to get a player who isnt necessarily gona be put in position to succeed anyhow. Fire the coaching staff licht. Your draft picks will magically be better.
January 14th, 2018 at 10:09 am
darin…agree about trading down in the first this year,dreaming of being one of those teams that cleans up with additional picks….Licht….we would do just as well picking any mock draft site and draft accordingly….
January 14th, 2018 at 10:22 am
Buc history open to interpretation? Its systemic Joe. Organizational from the top down. NEw England and maybe 3 or 4 other teams got everything down. Its like last night.New England ofyen waits to see how your team plays the 1st qtr and then they make their adjustments accordingly. Those guys they have upstairs in the booths with the binoculars have been with them forever. And they know what they are looking at. They accurately relay information to the DC and OC on the sidelines. Not eatin Nachos like our DC. And not prayin for a Win. They make in game adjustments and commence to whippin your A..! If you notice, The Pats seem to care less where or in what order they draft. They look for certain players via trades or late rounds to fit their system and they do it well. Brady was overlooked by quite a few teams. ANd look at’em now!
January 14th, 2018 at 10:30 am
Licht probably would have spent that pick on the guy that holds his finger on the football to keep it from falling off the kickoff tee on windy days. Those guys are hard to find, what with the possibility of getting your finger kicked and all.
January 14th, 2018 at 10:35 am
Guys, there is a very good article on the four letter network’s page right now about how the Vikings built the NFL’s #1 defense. It’s a good read
January 14th, 2018 at 11:11 am
BrianBucs, nice article they did a craxy thing set a goal and plan and went after building the defense that wins championships, didnt see in their plan where they draft a kicker or 2 TEs as high picks, hmm maybe the latter plan gets you 5-11 and watching the playoffs every year sad the bucs chose lovie and not zimmer
January 14th, 2018 at 11:14 am
It’s funny if you go over to the Titans fan page they sound just like us with the coaching staff. But they also think they should have won last night with better coaching. Their issue is their QB is to passive in the passing and last night they had the same issue as everyone in the league has no one can cover Gronk period. No matter who the coach was they weren’t stopping him and if a guy checks it down every 3rd and plus 10 you got no shot vs a good team on the road in the playoffs.
January 14th, 2018 at 11:18 am
Thanks there BrianB..I just finished reading that article. Good Insight into how Zimmer built his Defense, What he looks for, And how since 2012, of the 17 1st 3rd draft picks the vikes had, 10 were defensive Players. WE had a Defensive concept when Dungy was here. He knew what it took to build a great Defense. And Chucky was its benefactor. Our Problems are systemic. From the top down. Until we get a HC who really and truly wants to build a Kick-a.s Defense, we will not regain our former status again. And we Definitely will not do it under Koetter and Smith.
January 14th, 2018 at 11:19 am
The Titans could not mentally overcome the penalties…and then there was the talent match ups against the Dark Empire….The Pats are an excellent football program…like them or not…they are the BEST !!! of this era…sit back and enjoy their excellence
January 14th, 2018 at 11:45 am
Altered Ego
Agree with your post and the concept of enjoying something special in sports that doesn’t happen all the time. We Lightning fans are enjoying this right now!!!
Sadly for me..winning is great…I respect it…but as a fan I always prefer enjoying the great athletes. It’s not hard to root for Lebron James because he’s not an asswhipe…unlike BOTH Belicheat and Brady. They are such loathsome personalities that I always root against them.
They are great…but like all great teams they have a LOT of luck..it’s Brady’s luck of the Irish. Both Seattle and Atlanta choked those games away.
January 14th, 2018 at 11:53 am
I am no expert, I might/probably am wrong when I point out that every team has these success/failure stories tucked away in their archives. They are used when the team is doing poorly as condescending metaphors and antidotes when the team is doing well. With thousands of transactions from trades, drafts, and free agent acquisitions to review I think I am pretty accurate when I say “Some days you get the bear and some days the bear get’s You.”
January 14th, 2018 at 12:22 pm
martini…it seems the Bucs are stuck with the bear from the movie “The Revenant”
January 14th, 2018 at 12:34 pm
Some great examples of our GM & organization missing opportunity after opportunity and ultimately screwing the pooch. Like Mike Johnson said … it’s not open to interpretation, it’s systemic. But hey, keep praising him for his drafting prowess. Hitting on 10-12 players is soooo much more important than setting the right vision, staying focused in terms of setting priorities, and building a competitive 53-man T-E-A-M.
January 14th, 2018 at 12:39 pm
Meh. The Bucs got the better end of that deal. Even assuming the Bucs FO drafted Flowers instead of some now-out-of -the-league punter, there’s no chance our staff would have developed him into a legitimate pass rusher.
January 14th, 2018 at 12:43 pm
In 1990 everyone, and I mean everyone, had the Bucs taking Emmitt Smith with their first pick in the draft. Instead a couple of days before the draft the Bucs traded two 3rd rounders to the Chargers for 29-year old and former Tampa Bay Bandit’s runningback Gary Anderson. So instead of taking Emmitt Smith as expected the Bucs took Keith McCants in the first.
Think of how thing might have been different if you had the Bucs with Vinny, Mark Carrier, Bruce Hill, Ron hall, Paul Gruber, etc going head to head with the Lions and Barry Sanders and the run-n-shoot for a decade. Just an interesting “what if” scenario.
January 14th, 2018 at 12:51 pm
LOL….I can still see Kieth McCants @ Pigeon Poop Stadium in training camp in Perkins dog house made to peddle the exercise bike while his teammates sweated there asses off
January 14th, 2018 at 12:59 pm
Yeah…the knock on Emmitt was he was a bit slow…the good old days with Nancy the SportsBabe on Tampa sports talk WPLA…
January 14th, 2018 at 1:14 pm
This has turned into CryBucsFan. Stop boohooing about what could have been. It’s not like we have any kind of coaching staff to develop young defensive linemen anyway.
January 14th, 2018 at 1:28 pm
Man, looking at the 1990 draft, what a disaster for Tampa. Cortez Kennedy picked in front of the Bucs, and Junior Seau was next off the board after McCants. However, if memory serves me correct Seau said he’d sit out and not play before coming the Bucs. The good ole pre-Glazers days…
January 14th, 2018 at 1:30 pm
Let’s go jags
January 14th, 2018 at 1:52 pm
Joe, I love the site, but you’re really adding to my depression from a miserable losing stretch of NFL seasons. It’s one thing to support and continue supporting an underwhelming team. But when you bring to light some of the inner workings of this ball club…I truly believe that we’re cursed by the football gods. These so-called football geniuses are too damn smart to have any form of common sense. The pass rush thing is like beating a dead horse, even my three month old daughter can see that. Then add on the Doug Martin situation to the mix and you realize that we will always be behind our competition the the South. We must’ve sold our senses for that ring in ’02. Ohh well. Go ‘Bucs…
January 14th, 2018 at 4:07 pm
Licht wouldn’t have picked this guy. 4 years and haven’t yet addressed the d line.
January 14th, 2018 at 4:12 pm
Architek… continue watching… a three ring circus is always entertaining….Licht drafting in the left ring, Koetter in the center ring, and Smith in the right wing….with the Glazer brothers with their squirting flowers, floppy shoes, and round noses.
January 14th, 2018 at 5:23 pm
mark….the Glazers brothers are shooting 1000 dollar bills out of an air cannon into a fire pit
January 14th, 2018 at 6:21 pm
I could name 53×8 players we might could’ve potentially saw about maybe drafting who made it to the Divisional round. Exercise in futility. Nonsense. Why? Because the other teams that didn’t make the playoffs can do the same thing. Best to focus with clear eyes on how to move forward rather than crying about milk from a carton that was never ours to spill. Congrats to the teams in the playoffs and players making plays…hope to join you (or take your places) next year. Go Bucs!
January 14th, 2018 at 6:33 pm
yeah I guess we can argue about what could have been but I can also argue that maybe if Philly or new England had a guy like Sweezy playing for them he would be more productive.
I’ll be curious to see what happens with him and how it plays out………If he moves along and gets back to his Seattle form I’ll know it’s because of the environment(culture) but I can already hear the back surgery excuses coming from Tampa.
January 14th, 2018 at 7:15 pm
“Hasn’t addressed the defensive line”.
Signed Michael Johnson, CLinton McDonald, Robert Ayers, ChrisBaker, Sealever Seliga, Tony McDanieland and drafted Noah Spence and the big DT last year from the Islands. He HAS “addressed” the defensive line just not as effectively as we would have liked.
January 15th, 2018 at 11:35 am
Licht stinks…….it’s really no debate.