Mixed Bag For Jameis
January 10th, 2018
Breakdown.
So, what did you think of America’s Quarterback, Pro Bowler Jameis Winston, this season?
For former NFL personnel guy, six-year NFL defensive back and current BSPN talking head Louis Riddick says there is good and there is bad. But at the end of the day, fairly or unfairly, Jameis, Riddick believes, has to start eating W’s.
The full BSPN video is below.
January 10th, 2018 at 12:09 am
Wins are nice.
January 10th, 2018 at 12:25 am
[Yes, that’s actually what Riddick said. Making up lies about Joe is a Crime Against Joe. Be careful. — Joe]
January 10th, 2018 at 12:28 am
Wins mean NOTHING in evaluating QBs … Jalen Hurts at Bama is 25-2 and won’t even be drafted most likely … Josh Rosen will be drafted ahead of a bunch of QBs with far better W/L records … no one cares.
As for NFL QBs … Bortles, Mariota and Tyrod Taylor all made it into the playoffs on solid TEAMS while far superior QBs like Rivers, Stafford, Jameis, Russell Wilson and even superior QBs like Kirk Cousins and Derek Carr are all sitting at home.
TEAMS win games not QBs.
January 10th, 2018 at 12:30 am
Joe never noticed the Super Bowl being played in a passing competition between the two quarterbacks with the most yards to determine who hoists the Lombardi trophy.
Yes, quarterbacks win games. When you need a score late in the game, a linebacker sure as hell isn’t going to drive the offense down the field for a score.
January 10th, 2018 at 12:34 am
I dedicate this song to Winston’s 2017 season:
January 10th, 2018 at 1:00 am
*****************
JOE,
I listened to the segment and that is NOT exactly the gist of what Riddick said … everything I stated, that you DELTED, was 100% accurate. You’ve never deleted any of my sports posts before and I have no idea why that would be the one you delete when what I said was 100% true and I didn’t say anything negative about you … I simply said Riddick knows the Bucs play in the best division, their TEAM sucks and that he (i.e. Riddick) believes in Jameis’ future … that’s not “deletion” worthy.
*****************
January 10th, 2018 at 1:08 am
*************************
JOE STATED:
“Joe never noticed the Super Bowl being played in a passing competition between the two quarterbacks with the most yards to determine who hoists the Lombardi trophy.”
You just proved my point for me Joe. YOU are basically claiming that wins are a “QB stat” and I’m saying that such is ridiculous because TEAMS not QBs win games. You’re retort is to say that the SuperBowl champ isn’t decided by a 1-on-1 QB competition? THAT proves my point for me.
If the SB was decided by a 1-on-1 QB skills completion, Aaron Rodgers would “win the ring” for the Packers every year, yet in REAL LIFE, Rodgers has just one ring. Why? Because TEAMS, not QBs win rings!
JOE STATED:
“Yes, quarterbacks win games. When you need a score late in the game, a linebacker sure as hell isn’t going to drive the offense down the field for a score.”
Please explain to me, if “quarterbacks win games” rather than “TEAMS winning games” how Bortles, Tyrod and Mariota made it into the playoffs and Rivers, Stafford and Russell Wilson did not? Hmmm ….
Please also explain to me how a HOF QB can retire with a career LOSING record if “quarterbacks win games”? Hmmmm ….
Please also explain to me how perhaps the three greatest pure passing QBs who ever lived in Marino, Fouts and Moon NEVER win a single ring in around FIFTY YEARS of NFL football while Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson and Jeff Hostettler did?
YOU know that I am 100% right on this Joe … 100%.
*************************
January 10th, 2018 at 1:12 am
NFLNut:
If you are of the mind of a 1970s wishbone high school coach, then no, a quarterback doesn’t mean anything more than a weakside linebacker or a right guard.
Anyone with any common sense knows that is asinine.
For example, when you need to drive down the field late in the game to win, who is touching the ball each play, a defensive tackle? Quarterbacks lead offenses ergo quarterbacks win games.
Joe never argued wins is not a valuable quarterback stat. Jeff George and Jay Cutler and Tony Romo put up awesome numbers, but couldn’t win s(p)it.
January 10th, 2018 at 1:25 am
So… Mariota won the game?
January 10th, 2018 at 1:38 am
***************************
^ JOE … I won our little debate and you know that full-well. However, this awesome site is yours, so no worries, you’re a winner at life 🙂
Anyways, I’m not talking 1970s football, I’m talking 2018 football and YOU and I and EVERYONE else just watched Blake Bortles and Tyrod Taylor play maybe the ugliest playoff game in the past 20 years … while Rivers, Stafford and Wilson sit at home … OBVIOUSLY TEAMS and not QBs win games in the modern NFL.
By the way, Jeff George did NOT “put up awesome numbers” … the guy had 2 good season in 12 years and never even made a single Pro Bowl.
As for Tony Romo … again, you’re proving my point for me. Romo has a higher career PLAYOFF PASSER RATING than Tom Brady and yet he’s just 2-4 in the playoffs while Brady has won 5 rings … TEAMS win rings not QBs.
Also … PEYTON MANNING is proof positive that what I’m saying is 100% true! WHY? Because when Manning was “the greatest QB on earth”, you know, in those FIVE SEASONS he won NFL MVP … he never won a single Super Bowl … BUT … in the year he was washed-up garbage, you know the year he threw almost TWICE AS MANY PICKS as TDs and was BENCHED for the immortal Brock Osweiler, he won a ring!
JOE … I love you man, but you know I’m 100% right … TEAMS win games and rings not QBs … QBs are just a part of the puzzle and while they may be the most important part, they still represent far, far, far less than 50% of the equation (probably 5-10% at most) which means that TEAMS not QBs win games!
*******************
January 10th, 2018 at 2:49 am
NFL NUT,
I don’t think you need any more information. But I’lI let you decide, I have used this w players and it makes the point. The players I’m referring to are the guys who are happy if they had a great game regardless of the team’s outcome.
I let them boast and brag and when they have run out of steam from patting themselves on the back, I point to the score board and ask them what it says next to the score. Team name and the other side is ………opp team name. Then I have a confused look and ask them to show me where their name is and their score. ………..at that point even a d end understands the message. Which is,
W’ s and L’ s are always no exceptions are team results. Individual stats are Individually assigned. They are yours and they get you paid. But We Win together as a team and We lose together as a team. That’s what the scoreboard
January 10th, 2018 at 3:01 am
^ I agree Duke … and that’s one reason I don’t like W’s and L’s being brought up in a negative way with Jameis as the young man is all about the team and winning at any cost; he’s not even close to a “me-first” guy or a “all about stats” guy.
The last game of the season was a perfect example of that … he was bound and determined to get Mike Evans the record he wanted (and Koetter was in on it from his statements after the game, so no one should say Jameis was being immature in trying to get Mike his record if the coach agreed with the plan) and he didn’t care if his own personal stats were going to suffer because of it.
Jameis could have “played safe” and finished the season with a higher passer rating than Russell Wilson and all that but he didn’t care, he just wanted to make Mike happy and THAT is why all his ex-teammates and coaches and current teammates and coaches love the young man … he’s a true leader and a true team-first guy even those his stats are by far the greatest in history for a QB his age and he could easily be a diva and a “look at me” guy.
January 10th, 2018 at 3:06 am
By the way … I do think there are a LOT of “stat stuffers” and “me first” QBs in the league, including Dak Prescott, Kirk Cousins, Aaron Rodgers, Cam Newton and many others … but Jameis isn’t even close to one of them … he’s in the mold of Brett Favre, Eli Manning and Tim TeBow when it comes to “team first” attitude and “leadership” … I’m just glad he’s got a whole lot more arm talent than the last fella on that list, a whole lot less partying in him than the first guy on that list, a whole lot more charisma and athleticism than the second guy on that list, hahahaha.
January 10th, 2018 at 3:17 am
Team game period!
Having a franchise QB can make it easier and exciting depending on the QB.
But without the other players help making the soup, QB can’t eat any Ws☠✌
January 10th, 2018 at 4:59 am
I agree with you on JW being unselfish. In fact, I don’t believe that I ever seen anyone who understands the relationship between being a leader and subservient at the same time. He is really wise beyond his years in that area. My opinion of him shifted significantly when he was at the podium for after the Carolina or ATL
game, I forgot specifically which, and it was Crystal clear how painful losing that game was for him. He looked physically hurt by the loss. I don’t give two cents about the stats He has , but to see the game mattered that much to him erased any concerns doubts or whatever…… his will to win is not on any stat sheet.
I have to agree with you to a point about the rest of leagues QB’s. It’s a business at the end of the day keep that in mind.
January 10th, 2018 at 5:00 am
Better understands
January 10th, 2018 at 5:16 am
@Duke … “W’ s and L’ s are always no exceptions are team results. Individual stats are Individually assigned. They are yours and they get you paid. But We Win together as a team and We lose together as a team.” Great summation Duke.
I shake my head when certain folks say ‘The Bucs’ defense lost us that game because they couldn’t keep that week’s opponent from scoring in the last minute of the game.’ Yes, the T-E-A-M loses in the last minute … but it’s what happens in EVERY minute of the game that contributes to the outcome. Leave 4 points on the field by dropping a sure TD catch & then settling for a FG then lose by 3 points and THAT contributed to the loss. Give up a 101 yard kickoff return then lose by 6 points and THAT contributed to the loss. Everyone tends to focus on the LAST thing that happens in a football game (see Bama-Bulldogs game) when it comes to Winning or Losing, but it’s the whole body of work by the T-E-A-M that led to the point which really counts.
January 10th, 2018 at 6:08 am
Why is there always a debate about Jameis and anyone half decent on the Bucs teams?
Do we debate the greatness of Brady or Brees? Do we debate the greatness of emerging stars or serious future HOFs and All-Pros like Aaron Donald or the greatness of some of the great coaches like Bill B or Mike Tomlin?
No.
Therefore – the players we currently have are questionable because we do not win and haven’t won since 2002. GMC, Jameis, David, and others shouldn’t and will not be considered great until you win in this league. Don’t tell me about stats!
January 10th, 2018 at 6:20 am
His last few games….despite the turnovers he looked like the Jameis I wanna see. Pushing the ball down field accurately. Thats what improved the most was his accuracy. He also, calmed down a lot. When he came back from his benching you could see the game slowed down for him. The question is, how will he look after a long offseason. How is his injury going o hold up?
Regardless, it doesn’t matter, I will bet my house that this team NEVER wins a SuperBowl with Mike Smith.
January 10th, 2018 at 6:33 am
*******************
Architek,
Brady was questioned and doubted till he won his SECOND ring … Peyton Manning was questioned and doubted till he win an MVP … Matt Ryan and especially Cam Newton are still questioned and doubted even after winning an MVP each … Jameis will stop being doubted when he’s in his 30s and his “stats” are just too great to ignore – like Philip Rivers is now … he’s talked about in reverential tones even though he’s never won anything as people have finally caught unto how good he’s been and how long he’s been good.
As I’ve said before, a QB has been enshrined in Canton with a career LOSING record and many of the greatest QBs even never won a ring … wins and losses are simply TEAM accomplishments and nothing more.
********************
January 10th, 2018 at 7:14 am
There should be no debate that there are things Jameis can do to help the team win more. This is true for pretty much true for for all the players ,coaches,and the GM. That said statistics are a tool to be used to evaluate , but if you don’t include all the variables it will be a flawed evaluation.
A good example is the QBR rating where a QB can have a stellar rating but
ignores some important parts of a QB’s game such as fumbles and balls thrown away because no one is open.
January 10th, 2018 at 7:14 am
Nfl nut
You are the Goat of all posters. You are amazing. Is that what you want to hear. You put up stats and spew what you think is knowledge. And that you won the debate?
Who cares. Let it go.
To say a QB should not be judged by wins is absurd. And of course football is a team sport. Why do you think qbs are the team “franchise player”. They are expected to be 1st and last person to enter and exit their team facility That’s why their salary is highest and they are held to different standard. They are usually the leader and team captain.
But again , they touch the ball every single snap on offense and the good one make audible for protection and make correct read/throw.
Please stop telling people you won
January 10th, 2018 at 7:17 am
It’s pretty simple Jameis ended the season as we hoped. Looked solid except last game.
However, the rest of the year (injury or not) was not good enough. 15 fumbles and the picks to go with it shouldn’t happen in year 3
January 10th, 2018 at 7:34 am
This entire debate about QBs is ridiculous.
Of course, QBs win games…..they also lose games. The QB is the most important player on every team.
But….others can occasionally win games….there is ample evidence of that….a kickier making a last second 60 yard FG…….even a defensive player forcing a sack fumble for a TD late in the game or a pick 6 from a Dback…..but these are not the norm. Coaches can also win games….who won the Natl Championship….the Freshman QB or Nick Saban for making the gutsy call. I mean benching your starter at halftime for a freshman….what if that hadn’t worked, they would have run him out of town.
Over the long haul, it takes complete teams to win games on a consistent basis….good teams with good coaches. Who could argue with that?
January 10th, 2018 at 8:25 am
Oddly enough that last game where he threw 3 Ints and played poorly, he also won that game so…..
January 10th, 2018 at 8:27 am
@NFLNut
Your ranting has ruined this thread. Moving on…
January 10th, 2018 at 8:27 am
The QB cannot foolishly turn the ball over repeatedly and not be a large portion of the problems after a loss. The Bucs roster is not elite enough to overcome Winston’s offensive blunders. His deep ball passing is non-existent.
January 10th, 2018 at 8:37 am
I think that we can all agree that Jameis is an unfinished product, right? I mean he absolutely has aspects of his game that he needs to work on. He had flashes of brilliance along with flashes of stupidity. Arguing that is akin to sticking your fingers in your ear going, “nah-na-na-nah-na…!”
So, if everyone works on their game and we improve the TEAM, then we should also WIN as a TEAM.
Again, stats are nice and everything, but winning is what most players are judged upon.
January 10th, 2018 at 9:52 am
A single person a first pick of the draft can’t turn your franchise around either. We need a TEAM. Starting w a running back. And a sense of urgency
January 10th, 2018 at 10:34 am
DB55
I realize I’m picking a nit here but I do not think #3 played poorly that last game.
He certainly was inconsistent…and I concede inconsistency for some is synomous with poor play….but if there is enough good in the inconsistent play then I do not believe overall the guy played poorly.
#3 put up a 4th Quarter comeback for the ages with a semi legendary play where he ignored his coach and went for the jugular instead and hits Chris on the TD pass. Some of this stuff is generational…we haven’t seen that much from Buc QB’s.
I’m not a Jameis apologist so I concede he still needs work and the jury is out as far as his greatness. But he has shown potential and given the aura and history of the team that surrounded him I think he’s on schedule.
Fix the trenches and the team will improve dramatically next year….IF #3 is available. Sorry to bring that up DB55 but I believe the Bucs would be a dramatically different team without #3 and as much as I like Fitz wouldn’t want to see him start the first 4 or six games next year and a worse case scenario…#3’s arm acts up again.
January 10th, 2018 at 1:14 pm
@STPete, but you bring it up on every one of your posts….
January 10th, 2018 at 2:32 pm
gihealy
You mean the charge of inconsistency?
January 10th, 2018 at 2:53 pm
I thought it was all about wins … I won.
Hahahahahahahahahahaha
January 10th, 2018 at 3:03 pm
NFLNut
You should give the Yucs some of your wins
January 10th, 2018 at 3:11 pm
^ I wish I could for sure