“Look, I Know The Coaches Want That To Happen”
January 30th, 2018
Unfulfilled desire
Buccaneers beat writer Rick Stroud says he knows what is in the heads of Bucs coaches when it comes to a particular topic, an issue of concern on this 5-11 Tampa Bay team.
Stroud was chatting about ineffective leadership last week on WDAE-AM 620, and twice he said Bucs coaches wanted team leaders to step up more last season to alter the ways of team-not-always-first players like Chris “Swaggy” Baker.
“No one held him accountable [early in the season],” Stroud said of Baker. “You know, they laughed at him. They kind of just wanted to be a teammate. Sometimes you gotta be a bad guy, you know. And this is the thing Gerald [McCoy] has gotten criticism for and there might be some merit to it. I think everybody leads a different way, but he is not an in-your-face [leader]. He wants everybody to like him. He wants to like everybody. He leads by example; he works the hardest, all that. Lavonte [David] doesn’t say three words. But when he speaks it’s impactful. Maybe you got to speak up a little bit more. I mean, you know, and I think, look, I know the coaches want that to happen.
“And if they can’t get it to happen with the guys they have … We’ve also seen Jameis Winston eat his fingers, you know, eat Ws, and that didn’t inspire anybody. It’s not always the guy making, you know, the most noise that they’re going to listen to.”
Stroud referenced McCoy speaking on radio talking about a need to hold teammates accountable faster next season.
When Baker was confronted in the locker room following a Week 16 loss at Carolina, Bucs coaches liked that, Stroud said. But those coaches thought it was too little too late.”
“I had some coaches tell me, ‘Yeah, that’s great. Wish they’d have done that in training camp. Wish they’d done that during the season. Waited a little too long to do that.’ Stroud said of his chats with Bucs coaches. “And I think that message got back to Gerald. And I’m sure coaches talked to him and others about it. And so, i think that’s what [Gerald] was reflecting.”
Joe has written about this subject in various ways. And note that Joe pinpointed back in training camp that Baker’s style was absolutely counter to the leadership tone set by Jameis Winston and McCoy, and it was a festering puss on the team.
If Stroud is to be believed here, then where were the coaches? Why didn’t they order some of their young studs to snuff out Baker’s nonsense? Or where were they to, you know, rip the guy a new one or cut him?
As Joe asked rhetorically on a recent Monday Morning Joe podcast weeks ago, in all those early-morning meetings with loyal soldier Kwon Alexander and Mike Smith, why didn’t Smith tell Kwon he needed to get in Baker’s face a long time ago? There’s no doubt Kwon would have obliged.
Strange year at One Buc Palace.
January 30th, 2018 at 12:56 pm
Given the enormous amounts of money…including budgets for private investigators…I’m just flabberghasted that the Bucs forked over the money for Swaggy and TJ Ward.
Once the decision is made then a HUGE conflict of interest comes to play. Nobody…especially Licht wants to admit what a huge error they’ve made with the Glazers money. I am not slamming Licht for this…it’s human nature and occurs league wide. I understand eating these mistakes is hard to admit.
Soooo….put more effort into the “character” issues when signing FA’s.
January 30th, 2018 at 12:56 pm
In defense of GMC93, he thought that “C” on his chest stood for “Captain Media”!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And with the hard knocks reality tv show circus going on, who could blame him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And while the coaches did not come down on it in training camp, Word on the street back then was maybe he would turn it on once the whistle blew, as his rap of a bad practice habits were stated and known!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Fix the “real” problems, The “Trenches”!!!!!!!!!!!
Go Bucs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
January 30th, 2018 at 1:03 pm
Why did they let Vernon Hargraves play 20 yards off of everyone?
It would be perfect to have the players hold each other accountable, but when it clearly isn’t happening, don’t the coaches have to step up?
That’s what they get paid to do right?
January 30th, 2018 at 1:06 pm
If Stroud is to be believed here, then where were the coaches? Why didn’t they order some of their young studs to snuff out Baker’s nonsense? Or where were they to, you know, rip the guy a new one or cut him?
WTF?……this staff has to go!!!!!!!…..this staff is too soft!!!!!….soft personality….soft offense….soft defense……soft training camp….everything is soft with this regime dirk and smitty especially…..
I remember when matty ice got roughed up and not 1 of the falcons did anything….smitty smiled and said no big deal we’re a tough team…..well mr blank disagreed and knew his team was soft and the leader of the soft movement was smitty….the HC….
now we have a coach that is cut from the same soft tissue….SMDH…..
an speaking of TC, I remember seeing the episode when GMC snuck a hotdog on the sidelines and invited him to join him….GMC was all smiles as if to say, “come be my friend chris….its all about having fun here” completely taking baker away from focusing on wants going on, on the field…..
we need every player to be like Winston in practice and during the games regardless if its preseason or not….I loved when Winston ripped those 2 players on the bench when griffen got hurt…..that’s leadership…..
this is just the lastest example of why this staff should’ve got canned….if they noticed a leadership/accountability problem in TC why the hell didn’t they address the problem and fix it……because they’re SOFT!!!!!!!!…..GO BUCS!!!!
January 30th, 2018 at 1:07 pm
I honestly didn’t care about his practice habits because as Realist said – he was known for this but still produced on the field. When he didn’t produce on the field then it was like f*ck this guy.
We have a culture problem in this locker room. I don’t trust GMC or Lavonte to change it at all since they’ve always been part of soft defenses that choke away games. No offense to their individual play but they don’t know what it’s like to be on an actual good defense that holds everyone accountable and can choke out another team consistently or hold a lead to win. They’ve never been part of one in the NFL; so why would we expect them to figure that out now?
We need some mean personalities that care about winning more than anything else. GMC comes off as way too content with losing and way too focused on his individual accolades. Maybe he’s finally figuring that out now but jesus that took a while then.
Maybe take Kwon & Jameis to be part of the interview process with FAs and draft prospects lol? I duno
January 30th, 2018 at 1:08 pm
@Steve in Mad Beach
The coaches benched and demoted VH28 to nickle in October, then injuries put him back in the lineup then he got hurt!!!!! What else do you want, for the coaches to cut him from the team????????
GO Bucs!!!!!!!!!!!!!
January 30th, 2018 at 1:09 pm
YOU MF ARE SLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW!!!!
No collusion, no sanctions, total coincidence!
No balls, no heart, all ice cream, greatest dt of all time.
The team is a laughingstock and the fans are too dumb to know any better.
Mike Vrabel wouldn’t need a pansy ass to instill discipline, players would know better than to fck around with Vrabel.
The Bucs are literally a bunch of gay pirates playing a man’s game. Led by the gayest pirate of all GERALDINI MCCOY.
January 30th, 2018 at 1:09 pm
Bucs Report on Facebook just posted inside comments from Rick Stroud
Bucs cutting: Doug Martin, Robert Ayers. JR Sweezy, Chris Baker, & not resigning Fitzpatrick…..VERRRRY INTERESTING!!!!!
January 30th, 2018 at 1:11 pm
The Buc Realist Says:
January 30th, 2018 at 12:56 pm
In defense of GMC93, he thought that “C” on his chest stood for “Captain Media”!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And with the hard knocks reality tv show circus going on, who could blame him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
so HARD KNOCKS is the reason why this staff couldn’t grab the horse by the reins and say enough of the BS?…..
so HK is the reason why this staff let a problem go on for an entire year?….GTFOH!!!!!!
NOEXCUSESIN2018!!!!!!!….GO BUCS!!!!
January 30th, 2018 at 1:12 pm
When I was at MCRD Camp Pendleton for my Marine Boot our company was FUBAR. My DI took the absolute biggest screw-up in the company and put him in charge. Results: We graduated with honors. Leadership is, Like you say joe, a” Strange” phenomenon. One thing I am sure of, like my DI, “COACHES” have to intervene. Sometimes great leadership skills have to be pried out of unlikely players.
January 30th, 2018 at 1:15 pm
The Buc Realist Says:
January 30th, 2018 at 1:08 pm
@Steve in Mad Beach
The coaches benched and demoted VH28 to nickle in October, then injuries put him back in the lineup then he got hurt!!!!! What else do you want, for the coaches to cut him from the team????????
GO Bucs!!!!!!!!!!!!!
play to his strength which is man press!!!!!!…..ryan smith too!!!!!!……we want coaches to put players in position to succeed!!!!!…..not sit on the hands and do nothing!!!!!!…oops too late!!!!!!
#NOEXCUSESIN2018!!!!!!…..GO BUCS!!!!!
January 30th, 2018 at 1:19 pm
he thought that “C” on his chest stood for “Captain Media
———–
You mean captain marvel
January 30th, 2018 at 1:21 pm
@DB55
No, I mean “Captain Media” !!!!!!!!!! Have you seen him when he gets near a camera of an interview!!!!!!!! If he cased after QB’s like he chases interviews and tv time, They would vote in GMC93 in the hall of fame while he plays!!!!!!!
GO Bucs!!!!!!!!!!!!
January 30th, 2018 at 1:23 pm
@DB55
You mean captain marvel?
He has no Kree blood or powers!!!!!!
#_Team_Iron_Man!!!!!!!
January 30th, 2018 at 1:26 pm
It seems our GMC bashers wish to conflate two issues. Playing well…and leading well. They are not the same.
Both Sapp and Brooks were great players but I do not believe Sapp was near the leader as DB55…that’s not a slam at Sapp as much as pointing out folks come with different personalities and talents.
I think GMC is a very good player. He’s never going to be a great leader because he is a popular guy and likes that. Being a great leader sometimes interferes with the popularity contest. They are not mutually exclusive but it’s a rare combo.
I honestly do not know why we can’t simply enjoy GMC for who he is…a popular guy who plays well but is not cut out to be a team leader. Fine let Kwon pick up that mantle. LVD is simply too quiet and to himself. Nothing wrong with that but it doesn’t lend itself to leadership.
January 30th, 2018 at 1:31 pm
LC
im not buying that BS….if the bucs knew he had bad practiced habits they should’ve “FIXED IT”…..that’s what coaches get paid to do….make players better…..
unless they thought his poor practice habits would mess well with the sift training camp…..bad practice habits are a problem and the team as a whole could be effected by 1 player with bad practice habits…..this staff should know this…..
I remember when my son was entering the 3rd grade…..I thought everything was fine and dandy…..always made A’s on his spelling test….math test…science…test….
one day his teacher called me and said he’s a great kid but tends to joke around a bit much once he gets the lesson down pack….it wasn’t effecting him but it was effecting the kids around him….other kids weren’t engaged while she was teaching because he was to busy entertaining everyone…..it was a problem that not only needed to be addressed but fixed…..I tore his a$$ up…..after his football practice I made him run by himself…..
teacher thanked me….problem fixed…..mid way thru the following year I asked his teacher were she having any problem with him being a class clown and she said absolutely not….he keeps his mouth shut and doesn’t speak unless he raises his hand or is spoken to….asked what was my secret….I pointed to my belt…..
coaches have to set the standard of what is to be excepted from the and what will be tolerated…..players make sure player go by those rules….if the coaches don’t set the standard, players will run wild and when a player tries to police each(like in week15), they get mixed reactions from players(LVD not letting KWON and Winston beat the sh!t out of baker)…..
#NOEXCUSESIN2018!!!!!….GO BUCS!!!!!
January 30th, 2018 at 1:33 pm
AND THE WINNER IS:…..DB55
DB55 SAYS: The Bucs are literally a bunch of gay pirates playing a man’s game. Led by the gayest pirate of all GERALDINI MCCOY.
LMAO…..damn that was funny!!!!!….GO BUCS!!!!
January 30th, 2018 at 1:35 pm
Yeah this nonsense comes down to coaching. Some coaches wont allow it. Some will and expect the captains to take care of it. Unfortunately we have the wrong coaches.
January 30th, 2018 at 1:36 pm
Most of these bums are worthless and helpless. How can you lead a grown man , that’s already set in his ways? If Jason Licht had an ounce of common sense, he would quit bringing these bums to the Bucs. If you want leadership from your veterans. Then bring in young,ambitious players that’s willing to learn.
January 30th, 2018 at 1:49 pm
I love McCoy. However, it is obvious that his leadership in questionable. We haven’t been to playoffs since he has been with us… It is what it is.
January 30th, 2018 at 1:57 pm
Hate Dirk if you want……I still love the guy!
I think DK takes the gloves off this season and does what he thought his captains were going to do.
I hate Swaggy but I think you guys are missing the point.
He’s calling out dam near everyone.
Go Dirk!
Go Bucs!
January 30th, 2018 at 1:59 pm
This is like parents expecting siblings to straighten each other out.
The coaches should have stepped in immediately when players didn’t force the issue. This is ultimately the job of the Coordinators & then the Head Coach.
We know Koetter has it in him by the way he treated ASJ.
I agree that GMs don’t want to quickly point to an acquisition error….only the best will cut their losses quickly.
Baker could have and should have been sent an early message….place a healthy Baker on the inactive list….or, simply not play him.
January 30th, 2018 at 2:13 pm
This article can be summed up by the two words I’ve been using to describe this team since week 3. “LEADERSHIP DEFICIT”.
January 30th, 2018 at 2:23 pm
Captain Marvel is a girl. Lol.
January 30th, 2018 at 2:36 pm
Leadership comes down from leadership. That’s coaching, I can remember Tony Dungy having Hardy Nickerson hit the showers or Gruden deactivating Keshawn (rather he should have or not). The only thing DK did is send ASJ packing (easy target) and then DM 22 inactive, likely knowing the league was about to suspend him, then yet to continually reward him with carries when ineffective (I was in DM’s corner). So why doe we put this on the players (there are only a hand full of Sapp’s whose play and mouth go hand in hand. This is on the offices up stairs and the soft coach that sits in the press box on game day, you can’t get in your players face from up there and obviously the way the defense played, not sure what you were watching from up there
January 30th, 2018 at 2:39 pm
So the guy who showed up at TC dressed up in a kimono and loving his Batman dolls is supposed to be the “in your face” guy. LVD and GMC are devoid of any leadership skills and JW the clown is too busy licking his fingers. Coaches should’ve figured this out long time ago but they too are clueless. This sinking ship has been without a rudder for a long time. The country club atmosphere and TC resulted in 5-11. Time to treat these spoiled brats to a little discipline. Some one needs to man up!
January 30th, 2018 at 2:43 pm
@martinii- Semper Fi brother! Camp Pen alum!
We expect what GMC and LVD can’t give. It’s been this way from the start, now everybody cries that neither are “leaders”!
We need stronger coaching. THEN, the culture will change.
#BuildtheTRENCHES
January 30th, 2018 at 2:51 pm
Who cares if LVD is a leader. It’s clear that Kwon is and our LB core enters every game prepared. But you need leaders at every level of a defense and our glarining hole is on the line.
Kwon can’t do much for those players he has enough on his plate. We need leadership on the Dline or we need talent from end to end and let each man do its job. One or the other, problem is we haven’t had either in over a decade.
It’s on our front office to identify this and my opinion is that’s why they brought in Ayers. Well, Obvisously that hasn’t worked out so well……I’m not sure what the answer is at this point but as bad as our line was it’s damn sure not an easy fix.
At this point I’m almost hoping they keep Baker because that means they are going to a 3-4 Defense. Other then that they better be willing to trade up for Chubb or make a blockbuster deal………We watched them try to build this 4-3 Defense around McCoy for so long…….Andbody thinking they quickly figure it out in one offseason will almost for sure be letdown.
January 30th, 2018 at 2:55 pm
@Joe … “why didn’t Smith tell Kwon he needed to get in Baker’s face a long time ago?” Oh for heaven’s sake, all you scapegoat-seekers want to do is cry “Why did Smitty do this? Why didn’t Smitty do that?” Horsepuckey !!!!!!!! (Realist emphasis added).
Last I checked Kwon was wearing a big old ‘C’ on his jersey. Used to be that the ‘C’ stood for ‘CAPTAIN’. Can anyone picture a DC coming up to Ray Lewis or Hardy Nickerson and saying ‘Oh Captain, my Captain, would you PLEASE get Fatty Baker to behave & contribute?’ I say again … Horsepuckey !!!!!!!!
If you’re gonna be a friggin Captain, then act like a friggin Captain. Be accountable! Take responsibility! None of this ‘Mother may I’ horse doo-doo. And Licht, get some @#$%& leaders on this team.
BTW, IF the report of Bucs cutting Martin, Sweezy, Baker & Ayers is true, then maybe Licht & company are finally starting to get the message.
January 30th, 2018 at 2:57 pm
Actually this is the most disgusting thing I have heard as it tells us all the coaches saw this and allowed it to happen ALL SEASON!!!! You can bet that any good to average coaching staff would not have allowed this to occur so this tells me more than ever that we have no hope moving forward with this staff. NONE WHATSOEVER!!! I am trying to convince myself that we will be good but with people like this in charge we do not stand a chance to succeed. Coaches relying on the players to set the tone is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard and this is just sad.
January 30th, 2018 at 2:59 pm
You know who’s a leader? Mike Vrabel. None of these fools would play around with him. Then again he looks like a man on the sidelines not a grandmother trying to understand this game. And he’s a duck not a “nice guy” like mike smith.
During hard knocks he made that DE Courtney whateverhisnameis cry during camp then he cut him for being dumb and soft so logically the Bucs signed Courtney to their roster. Do you get it? The Bucs are just gay pirates. I’d actually prefer to ball with a bunch of Rupauls friends than some of these Bucs.
Betas can’t lead alphas. The end.
January 30th, 2018 at 3:02 pm
Its obvious some of you guys have never been in a locker room. You are blaming the coach? Dont know if you guys are aware but the coaches do not even go into the locker room unless its game day. There is always a player that polices the locker room. Ian beckles would always tell stories of hardy whipping @$$ in practice if someone was slacking. Hardy didnt need sam wyche or dungy to tell him to do that. Sapp too held players accountable about their preparation and practice habits. Thats why he and keyshawn did not get along because keyshawn would miss otas. Sapp did not need dungy or gruden to tell him how go about policing the locker room. That is why mccoy gets as much hate by a lot of the fans because if you are going to call yourself a leader, sometimes that means putting your foot in someone’s butt. And dont make any mistake, derrick brooks did not take any crap in the locker room either. That is why the bucs continued to finish in the top 10 in defense after sapp left. Its not on the coach.
January 30th, 2018 at 3:05 pm
Yeah ndog……All it tells us is that this coaching staff just does not understand how to build that all elusive “winning culture” that we hear about.
There’s a reason why some teams get turned around in a hurry and it isn’t just on talent. All we can do now is hope that Dirk figures it out…….And nobody can convince me that 9-7 season was any kind of proof we were close to being contenders.
As soon as we got a shot to play for the playoffs we folded like a pile of losers. We got beat up physically in back to back weeks and tossed aside like pretenders.
January 30th, 2018 at 3:12 pm
“813bucboi Says:
January 30th, 2018 at 1:31 pm
LC
im not buying that BS….if the bucs knew he had bad practiced habits they should’ve “FIXED IT”…..that’s what coaches get paid to do….make players better…..”
I didn’t mean to excuse the coaches. In general they shouldn’t have brought this guy in to the team period knowing his attitude and how it would likely mesh with the team. I’d blame that on LIcht. They knew who this guy was / how he practiced. He’s at the later stage of his career so it’s not like you sign a 30 year old and try to change them. Should have just never signed him to begin with.
Also should have just cut his 4ss to send a message. But they accepted it which is bullsh1t so I pretty much agree with you
January 30th, 2018 at 3:17 pm
Someone should have told him he was like warm piss running down their leg.
January 30th, 2018 at 3:21 pm
So the Coaches, stopped practice, and everyone ran gassers in training camp!!!! That was a big hint right there!!!!!!!
I think the sheep really feel but hurt and are just lashing out at everything, including making things up and revisionist history!!!!!!!!! LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Fix the “real” problems, the “trenches”!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
GO Bucs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
January 30th, 2018 at 3:28 pm
@webster I get what you are saying but I don’t think any of this has to do with locker room politics. The biggest problem on this team by far was our defensive line……We are talking about a line that looked very bad in the preseason. They looked bad on their opening week……They looked good in one game(vs NE) and that’s really about it man.
Leadership or not It’s obvisous our coaching allowed this line to get dominated all season long seemingly helpless to fix the problem. It’s not just that they didn’t play well. For the most part they didn’t play at an NFL level. It was an unacceptable job for this staff to put that product on the field all year long.
That unit was just unprepared to play and that’s just lack of coaching to allow that line to get beat by every team they played this year. Mesh that with a lack of leadership on the line and you get the abomination that was the 2017 Bucs Dline.
January 30th, 2018 at 3:29 pm
LC
Agreed….if they knew his bad habits they should’ve never signed him…..that’s too much like common sense tho….GO BUCS!!!!
January 30th, 2018 at 3:32 pm
Oh and we played well against the Jets. Not trying to take credit away from the Dline.
But they show just how prepared they are when they play division opponents and get physically manhandeled wire to wire…….You should know these team well enough to win a few matchups during the game. But you have to be prepared well to do it. That’s on coaching man. I know we ain’t that good on the D front. But no excuse to be that bad.
January 30th, 2018 at 3:33 pm
This is an excellent article for perspective.
The reason everyone bought into this team last year is because what all of us perceived as a culture change.
This situation is what is known as growing pains. Better late than never!!!
IMAGINE IF, IF this understanding can carry over to next season. We have reason to be excited again.
In fact this simple but hard to acquire understanding very well may be the “IT” factor that leads to a team WINNING A CLOSE GAME vs loosing it.
(Makes me suddenly want the two retreads from Denver and Seattle that Joe keeps pimping.)
Thank You Glazers for staying the course with our Team. These are the lessons that can only be learned in the fire of a FAMILY and CULTURE that lives and dies together….
ALL WE NEED NOW IS FOR THE FANS TO STOP BEING SO DEPRESSED ALL THE TIME…
AND IF THEY INSIST ON BEING DEPRESSED JUST IGNORE THEIR ICE CREAM EATING SOFT ARSES
January 30th, 2018 at 3:36 pm
The Buc Realist Says:
January 30th, 2018 at 3:21 pm
So the Coaches, stopped practice, and everyone ran gassers in training camp!!!! That was a big hint right there!!!!!!!
obviously either the players didn’t get/understand the message or they got it and just tuned dirk out….
that speaks volumes to the amount of respect players give dirk!!!!!…..they may respect him as a man but not as a coach or leader of men!!!!!!
this aint HS football….running gasser wont move the needle with a team full of millionaires…..that’s just another example of how soft and incompetent dirk is!!!!!!
#NOEXCUSESIN2018!!!!!!….GO BUCS!!!!!
January 30th, 2018 at 3:37 pm
Thank goodness we have Mike Smith under contract so we can beat off all the offers for him to head coach other teams.
Groovy.
January 30th, 2018 at 3:41 pm
It’s the same BS with our rushing game………Our rush attack goes nowhere and the coaches do nothing to fix it like they don’t know how.
Then when Barber gets forced into action we start to see productivity. D. Evan Smith and Hawley gets forced onto the field and we start to see some holes get opened up.
Not saying we should have had Smith and Hawley out there every snap. But dam could have a clue to put together a few different packages from time to time.
It’s just like they look at a problem and don’t care to even try to fix it. Poor preparation and poor adjustment.
January 30th, 2018 at 3:41 pm
Man Swaggy is fine. He got swag. It’s this sorry ass town and team that’s the problem. RN come around here and instinctively know the Bucs ain’t about chit they know it’s just a check and ain’t nobody around here got the balls to check them.
Might has well make Rodney Dangerfield the team mascot.
January 30th, 2018 at 3:41 pm
McCoy is no leader…..not his personality. He’s a great ball player, person, teammate….but not a leader. Success at what you do, doesn’t mean you are a leader. There are very successful businessmen/salesmen….cant manage/lead a team of sales reps/employees to save their life.
Winston isnt a leader either. Rah rah speeches and a great work ethic dont make you a leader….Nobody wants to admit this, but players understand Winston is the “franchise”….you dont bash the franchise’s biggest investment. Jackson coming out and saying Winston needs to quit trying to be a superstar and just play ball…..a little telling.
January 30th, 2018 at 3:52 pm
DR SAYS: BTW, IF the report of Bucs cutting Martin, Sweezy, Baker & Ayers is true, then maybe Licht & company are finally starting to get the message.
WRONG!!!!!!
that’s an easy decision…..they weren’t productive…..
them getting the message would be trading GMC for picks and signing Malcolm butler, tre boston, kony ealy when the FA bell rings…..
or making some changes to this lousy defensive staff…..that would qualify as “them getting the message”…..
#NOEXCUSESIN2018!!!!!….GO BUCS!!!!!
January 30th, 2018 at 4:08 pm
813, There’s no chance they trade McCoy for rookies. Only way that’s happening if they get a defensive player back in return.
They have enough holes to worry about right now. They not going to pin their jobs at the hands of unproven rookies.
January 30th, 2018 at 4:11 pm
@ jimmyjack
You missed my point when i said sapp held people accountable when it came to preparation and practice habits. Case in point, it was like week 10 this year when mccoy said he changed his approach to practice. He talked about how he was chasing the ball carrier all they way down the field. He talked how if he was doing that, then others would have to do that. I believe that may have been the jets game post interview. My point is, it has taken him 8 years to realize that. Thats what i mean about preparation. Not x and o’s but the mentality you bring everyday at practice. And your leaders have to be the standard period. The coaches do not set that tone.
January 30th, 2018 at 4:16 pm
This is pathetic all around
This is the reason GMC is not this irreplaceable guy everyone thinks he is. Almost 30 and your just figuring this out? He’s up there year after year calling himself the leader but can’t back up the talk.
Coaches are just as sad. You mean you knew the season was lost and you couldn’t dump this guy or inactivate him? You let him continue to hurt the team and even reward him with playing time. Coaches leaving it to players, players leaving it to coaches and licht he’s just invisible
January 30th, 2018 at 4:16 pm
@ bobby b
Stop with the alternative facts to fit your misinformed narrative. Djax said winston needs to stop trying to impress everybody and go back to having fun. Translation, stop trying to changed the minds of idiots who dont like you, never wanted you, who will lie about what is said about you, who will create false narratives to fit their agenda and go back to just playing like your days at fsu. There….your false statement has been fixed.
January 30th, 2018 at 4:19 pm
@JimmyJack
If the Bucs traded GMC for a 1st and another pick, And added mostly to the trenches and fixing the d-line for the long term, instead of trying to squeeze one more good year out of GMC!!!! Then I and many other “real” fans, will be more lenient for the success of next year!!!!!!!!!!! We don’t want to see patches and band-aids just to be look good for 1 year and be back in the same position with no D-line in 2019!!!!!!!!!!!
Fix the “real” problem, the “trenches”!!!!!!!!!!!!!
GO Bucs!!!!!!!!!!!!
January 30th, 2018 at 4:20 pm
@813bucboi … “maybe Licht & company are finally starting to get the message. WRONG!!!!!! That’s an easy decision…..they weren’t productive.” YGBSM bucboi. If it was an EASY decision for Licht, Martin wouldn’t have been here at all this year (you ARE talking lack of productivity, aren’t you?). Baker never would’ve been signed. When it comes to FAs, no decision is easy for Licht.
And as far as trading GMC goes, you need to join tmaxcon over in the corner. You acknowledged in an earlier comment that the Bucs biggest problem is their DLine. TWO DLinemen were productive this past year: GMC & McDonald. McDonald is a FA right now, so your solution to fixing the DLine is to trade the only remaining DLineman who was effective? Absolutely brilliant.
January 30th, 2018 at 4:24 pm
The post on the Bucs Report Facebook site referencing the aforementioned cuts that Rick Stroud said was taking place has been deleted??? I wonder if Bucs Report let the cat out of the bag prematurely or if this was BS. I pray that this post was true. It said those cuts would also give the Bucs over $80M in cap space. Stay tuned.
January 30th, 2018 at 4:24 pm
Our Bucs have no true leaders. Nietiher in the players ranks or coaching staff. We had that once upon a time. McDonald is the closest thing we have to one right now. Jameis tries. But he needs to concentrate on being a better QB. WE need to get a couple of Kick A.s Vets in here Who are not afraid to lead this team. I don’t see it happenning anytime soon. 8-8 next year. And I am being..OPTIMISTIC.
January 30th, 2018 at 4:25 pm
A 1st what? A 1st rnd pick? You have got to be kidding. Love to see that happen.
More realistic is trading GMC and a 2nd to the jets for Leonard Williams.
January 30th, 2018 at 4:34 pm
@Realist,
Your approval and others like you are what this team has been guided by for far to long.
I think the message you and other real fans like you are missing is simple.
STFU we aint listening to you no more. Go back to rooting for the Pats if they will take you back.
January 30th, 2018 at 4:37 pm
No one on this defense is good. You won’t find ANY leadership on that side of the ball. Ya’ll are Kwon homers, dood can shed a block to save his life. You guys are LVD homers guy misses so many tackles esp early in the season. You guys are GMC homers, he disppears when it counts and this year didn’t even try to hide him mailing it in on the season after that first loss in Minny. You guys are Beckwith homers, call him “lost in space” Beckwith. I could go on but the point is, NO ONE on that defense is worth keeping long term. Pray that Licht drafts a stud, franchise player and hand him the mantle (like they didn’t JW), build around that. If you depend on Licht to bring it in via FA you’re gonna be sorry. All this is moot they won’t be here after next year anyway. This whole site is moot until then hahahaha
January 30th, 2018 at 4:37 pm
And to be clear. Everything yall preach about is in Hindsight.
#WeaponsforWinston
#Nonothings
#Fireeveryonethatfails
#Youralooserforareason
January 30th, 2018 at 4:46 pm
@“Realist”……I know what your saying and I do agree with you.
But these guys in the front office have to put results on the field this year or they will likely all be gone. What you are saying makes sense for the long term of the team but just is not going to happen for a FO thinking short term this offseason.
It’s an all around bad situation for this franchise to be in this offseason. I’d feel much more comfortable if Licht were given a two year extension. I think he’s a pretty decent GM though I know that’s not a popular opinion. If they do that maybe he would consider moving Gerald for future prospects……With his job on the line? Don’t see how anybody can see that as a realistic consideration.
January 30th, 2018 at 4:55 pm
The Bucs Front Office has had many,many opportunities to build the trenches. Right now it’s only a pipe dream, the Bucs are too dumb to build the trenches.
In 2012 Draft
Bucs draft Mark Barron 7th pick
Kansas City draft Dontari Poe 11th
Philadelphia draft Fletcher Cox 12th
In 2013 Draft
Bucs draft Jonathan Banks 43rd (No 1st round pick)
Carolina draft Kawann Short 44th
In 2014 Draft
Bucs draft Mike Evans 7th
Rams draft Aaron Donald 13th
In 2016 Draft
Bucs draft Roberto Aguayo 59th
Jacksonville draft Yannick Ngakoue 69th
This not hindsight
There were top players in college
Tough, physical D-Linemen
January 30th, 2018 at 4:57 pm
The Bucs haven’t made any effort to build the D_Line since Rah was the Head Coach.
January 30th, 2018 at 5:10 pm
@webster….I don’t know man, I just don’t know. Yes, Sapp was a great tone setter but we organization may go decades without seeing that type of player on that Line.
I’m all for having high standards but surely the only option shouldn’t be to wait for a HOF player to walk through the door.
Not sure what to call it. Maybe the coach’s don’t need to set a tone but maybe they need to raise the standard.
All I know is there is a disconnect somewhere. If everybody’s answer is just to look to McCoy for the answers then nobody has the answer. And I don’t care what anybody says there’s no reason to hold Gerald accountable for the play of the DEs this year. If the problem is always going to just fall back onto GMCs shoulders and fall back on not having a HOF player on the line then it’s never going to get corrected.
Whatever the reason is this coaching staff has not gotten success from this line. They need to be held accountable.
Yes leadership would make a difference but our coaching has gotten such poor play from this line it is inexcusable.
January 30th, 2018 at 5:13 pm
@Lakeland, I have enjoyed your post over the years
BUT
Sorry if your to dumb to realize,
hindsight is exactly what you expressed because you could not of made that list till after the fact.
January 30th, 2018 at 5:18 pm
And if I am wrong. Go ahead and tell us the results of this years draft..
Stupid is as stupid dose.
Yes WE have made some bad choices over the years.
The worst one of all as the 12th MAN has been to become a Fan of Depression.
We are the only common denominator since the beginning.
We changed the culture when we willed our team to the SB.
We can do it again.
The JBF stick Carriers flaked out and the 12th MAN died a hard death last year. MUCH LIKE OUR TEAM….
Watch what happens when the culture change sets in at ONE BUC…. The Fans will be singing a different tune
January 30th, 2018 at 5:18 pm
DR
we’ve lost with GMC for 9 years…..whats 1 more year….might as well get something in return before its too late….that’s what good GM’s do….its called addition by subtraction….sign the true dline leader in clint and trade GMC….that would send a message, we don’t care if your a 1st round pick and have a 100million dollar contract….be productive or be traded…..
Jimmy
lately our rookie have out performed our vets….
j.evans….beckwith….oj…godwin….not to mention marpet…d.smith…Winston…kwon….who have all started from day1…..
as far as players and talent, we aint that far off….don’t get brainwashed….coaching is a different story…..we’re out in left field somewhere….
#NOEXCUSESIN2018!!!!!…..GO BUCS!!!!!
January 30th, 2018 at 5:20 pm
Gmc is garbage. Just cut him and end the controversy
January 30th, 2018 at 5:25 pm
DB55 Says:
January 30th, 2018 at 4:25 pm
More realistic is trading GMC and a 2nd to the jets for Leonard Williams.
LICHT SHOULD JUMP ALL OVER THAT!!!!!!
a second round pick and l.williams…..I would do it for just a second round pick…adding LW is just icing on the cake….
but the jets aint that dumb and LW is a str8 monster….that’s why they let Sheldon go….GO BUCS!!!!
January 30th, 2018 at 5:26 pm
813bucboi
The Bucs are no where near Atlanta and New orleans in young talent.
January 30th, 2018 at 5:26 pm
@ jimmy jack
Ok. From reading your post, i gather you are a huge gmc supporter. So i will try and approach this another way. Hardy nickerson is not a hall of famer but he literally got into fights with teammates regardless of their position if he felt they were slacking. Yes, sapp is a hof, but he held everybody on the team to a standard regardless of position. His famous words out in san diego in 1996 when scott berman called the bucs the yucks on tv…sapp bust into the breakfast hall and told the entire team that this stops today. You keep going back to the dline. The players im talking about set the tone for the entire team. Ray lewis set the tone for the entire team. There is a reason why some players are called alpha dogs. Raise your standards. The bucs coaches were not wishing that only a defensive lineman would call out swaggy. They were hoping that any one would step up and do it and no one did until week 16. So yes, that is on mccoy as the captain for 7 years but also falls on every player in that locker room. My point is you dont blame a coach for something a player should be doing and something players have been doing since the beginning of time accross all sports. Mccoy surely gets some of the blame in this if not most because the c is on his chest.
January 30th, 2018 at 5:27 pm
lamarcus
he aint garbage, that’s why we should get something for him….but I see what your saying….lol….
#NOEXCUSESIN2018!!!!….GO BUCS!!!!
January 30th, 2018 at 5:30 pm
LakeLand Says:
January 30th, 2018 at 5:26 pm
813bucboi
The Bucs are no where near Atlanta and New orleans in young talent.
I slightly agree….they have better young talent on defense but I like our young offensive talent…..
trading GMC for picks would get us closer…..
#NOEXCUSESIN2018!!!!!….GO BUCS!!!!
January 30th, 2018 at 5:31 pm
Not one comment from TMAXCON?????? This article was written for him.
This team needs a Sapp / Brooks type of player. The leadership, the work ethic, the heart, the soul, these guys need this desperately. You can tell the teams that are leaderless, the Bucs, Browns, Bengals, etc. it shows in the final product on the field. Coaches can only do so much, it is up to the players.
January 30th, 2018 at 5:31 pm
How I feel right now is that nobody should be “safe”
Not even my favorite player and favorite buc Jw3 should be safe. No one!!
January 30th, 2018 at 5:35 pm
In 2014 I thought the Bucs should have drafted Aaron Donald and traded GMC when he had value. The Bucs can’t get nothing higher than a 4th round draft pick for him now.
January 30th, 2018 at 5:36 pm
813bucboi
GMC is overrated trash. We can trade him for supplemental 7th round pick in the 2033 draft. That’s it
January 30th, 2018 at 5:53 pm
No Webster……I’m not a GMC supporter. In the sense that I support him as a Buc yes but that’s it.
All I’m saying is that McCoy is not that alpha dog type. He never has been he never will be. I knew this after I seen him play for a year or two and it just baffles me why anybody thinks he is going to change.
I guess you can see a C on somebody’s jersey and interpret how you want to. To me it means nothing more then McCoy being a long tenured Buc that’s been to probowls and just a vote of respect. A true leader would step up and set a tone reguardless if they had a C or not.
We ain’t had that leader come onto that line since GMC has been here. That’s where I blame coaching…….Lack of leadership is not a excuse for piecing together the worst line in the league.
When you add up sacks pressures and hit we were probably last by a mile.
January 30th, 2018 at 5:58 pm
813
No no no we give the jets gmc and a 2nd for Williams. Who the he11 is gonna give up a 2nd for a fruit loop DT?
January 30th, 2018 at 6:01 pm
And I keep bringing up Dline because I think it works much better when you have leadership from all phases of a defense.
And as much of vocal leaders as guys like Ray Lewis and Warren Sapp were there were a lot of teammates that tuned those guys out and looked up to less vocal players like Brooks and Suggs on those teams.
Yeah maybe it helps to have that one loudmouth leader to pump some guys up. But that’s not the only way to lead. At the end I think it really takes a special and rare group to have a defense like those two.
January 30th, 2018 at 6:23 pm
813bucboi … I get that most JBFers trade ideas normally start with the words “In a land far, far away” BUT … look at GMC’s value from other GMs positions for a second (no, not through Licht’s eyes, he’d do a bad FA deal in a heartbeat I’m convinced). Gerald McCoy will be 30 yrs old next month. He’s been in the league for 8 full yrs & has gotten pretty well beaten up over those yrs. Despite what tmaxcon says about him being Mr Softie, he’s almost always in the Top-5 of DTs in terms of defensive snaps (which more than likely means that he plays hurt quite a bit). His sacks have been declining each season since 2013 however. His contract runs through 2022 & he’s paid very very close to $16 mil a year.
Now, as a GM of another team, you have a choice of giving away a high draft pick to the Bucs for the privilege of signing a 30 yr old DT with declining production AND eating his $16 mil salary OR using that high draft pick to draft your own beastly DT who’ll cost you but a small fraction of GMC’s salary & who’ll be with you for years.
OK ready bucboi? GO … which one would you take? (Kind of a no-brainer isn’t it).
January 30th, 2018 at 6:27 pm
Jimmyjack
GMC is a alpha dog when we play good. Who morphs into a role player when we lose and it gets tough.
Yes I’m pissed cuz I cried for leadership for 4 years out of these players and today it’s an issue? Its not about garbage players like gmc. It’s about the ppl who keeps these players around and think it’s not the problem.
January 30th, 2018 at 6:35 pm
Sidenote
Hasn’t bothered me before but just for the record it was I and Ray Rice who started the McCoy reality. Tmax became the figures head but let’s not act like I didn’t call McIceCream out from the jump. That is all I love me some Tmax.
January 30th, 2018 at 6:38 pm
Same way I called out Lovie Smith from day 1 and Mike Smith’s soft as D. I also said we should hire Vrabel and never ran dumb should have fired Schiano. Amongst a lot of other brilliant chit.
And I think ran dumb a$$ Hawaii out of here unless he’s just too sick to comment anymore.
January 30th, 2018 at 6:45 pm
I bet McCoy gets 15 sacks next yr? Isn’t it his contract yr? You know all he cares about is money and toys.
January 30th, 2018 at 6:48 pm
@ jimmyjack
You keep talking about the dline. I am sorry but i am not understanding why you are singling out the line for the need to have leader or alpha come from there. Not sure why you are talking sacks and pressures. That has absolutely nothing to do with a player regardless of position to stop fooling around in “PRACTICE”. You do not get any stats in practice but you do get prepared to play like you practice. Sapp went full bore in practice. Mccoy and whoever else do not need great line mates in order to go all out in practice. The greats in any sport are the hardest workers on the team and therefore the team mates usually follow that lead. Mccoy just figured that out week 10. That has nothing to do with line mates and sacks. If mccoy or david go all out in practice, that will make donovan smith, hargraves, conte, marpet etc go all out. Thats before the stats come on sunday. You are talking about sunday and the coach and myself are talking monday through saturday. No excuses for mccoy on this
January 30th, 2018 at 6:52 pm
Joe………..Did you pass out ‘Stupid Pills’ before this article to half the posters here? How did you do it?
January 30th, 2018 at 6:56 pm
@DB55
As I am the unofficial Buc historian!!!! The first one was, this man!!!!! The greatest poster in JBF history, he has been banned no less than 7 times, It is my pleasure to introduce ,,,,,,,,,,, Thomas 2.2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And there are many more, even before this one!!!!!!!!
thomas 2.2 Says:
November 6th, 2011 at 9:30 am
It is not just sacks, tackles, TFL’s and pressures on non-trap / screen plays that Softy is not producing.
Last year Softy had 28 total tackles (including assists) to Suh’s 66.
The fatal flaw in this new “disruption” stat is that it is purely subjective. Those with an agenda will disagree with the objective about what constitutes disruption. That is why we grade performance on objective criteria. Before Softy was drafted, the measuring stick was always the same. Now you have player who stinks by objective criteria so the sheep must change the criteria to have any argument at all.
Most of you sheep have no clue what a trap, screen draw or play designed to allow the tackle an outside release to “pop” the tight end or slot “z” receiver through the D tackles vacated gap. That is what the Pats were doing with Welker and I was hearing idiots bragging about Softy’s penetration on those plays – foolish.
Get this through your heads: Mccoy is a gap jumper, offensive coordinators design plays, both pass and runs, to take advantage of this – you allow penetration by pushing him the direction he wants to go and hit the play, trap screen, draw or pop pass, right through the vacated area. It is basic playcalling that you will see today.
January 30th, 2018 at 7:08 pm
@ jimmyjack
Where is your proof sapp and lewis was tuned out by teammates. You are confused. You dont have to be a loudmouth to set a standard. 1st you must bring your hard hat everyday to practice. 2nd, you set the level and what type of intensity and attention to detail practice will operate. 3rd, if someone does not meet the expectations, you open that can. You open that can a few times and the message will be received throughout the locker room. Where did jordan fight teammates? In practice. Where did hardy fight teammates? In practice. Sapp and chidi went down in practice do to slacking. Magic had a player cut early in his career because a player did not practice hard and take it seriously. Its very simple. You do not need to be a loud mouth but power perceived is power achieved.
January 30th, 2018 at 7:09 pm
Before my time but thanks
January 30th, 2018 at 7:16 pm
@DB55
does this sound fimilar
Thomas 2.2 Says:
June 6th, 2011 at 11:10 am
I find it very strong and appropriate that when citing an example of a player who plays aggressive and violent Clayborn used: Suh. Not the player picked just one selection later in the draft and who Clayborn has apparently trained with. Interesting.
This guy Clayborn is very bright and an astute judge of superior D Linemen. Clayborn has a lot of the tools necesary to be excellent, I am just concerned that his body may not allow for it.
But at least Clayborn and I agree that GMC is not a good example of aggressiveness and violence on the football field. Or off it for that matter since he tweets about domestic violence as opposed to intervening to stop it. Shoot, if I person GMC’s size yelled at me to stop doing something I would certainly pay attention, unless of course I realized it was GMC then I would know that all I needed to do was place a football in my hand and he would get nowhere near me. LOL
January 30th, 2018 at 7:22 pm
TBH Webster I don’t have proof that Sapp was tuned out but I heard some explayers talking about Lewis and they said just that. Some players looked elsewhere for guidance…..not to mean they didn’t respect Lewis or there where different standards just they related the Suggs more.
Just after hearing that I assume that things probably worked the same way with the Bucs Defense years ago where Sapp and Brooks had much different ways of relating to teammates.
And I do agree with everything you said about practicing and preparing. But anytime I heard any local media person talk about him on the practice field they say he is one of the hardest workers. Personally, I don’t know but I’d like to believe sports media’s reporting it do.
January 30th, 2018 at 7:27 pm
@Realist……….I have been banned more than that! You can’t even type my original username in Any context!
January 30th, 2018 at 7:55 pm
34% of Pats Superbowl roster (18 players) is undrafted. Wow.
This metric says that coaching might be important!
January 30th, 2018 at 7:58 pm
Realist
What drives me mad is that no one else except for a few people see it.
January 30th, 2018 at 8:24 pm
Coaches wanting players to do their job ,,,,,,,, Really ,no wonder the team is lost !!
January 30th, 2018 at 8:36 pm
This is Bull crap – it’s maddening to listen and or read coaches expecting players to regulate slackers!
Wel guess what, it didn’t happen! So do you let slackers cost you your jobs????
January 30th, 2018 at 8:52 pm
SB,
The Seattle Seahawks had 24 undrafted players on their roster when they won the Super Bowl in 2013.
January 30th, 2018 at 9:06 pm
Lakeland,
Cam Jordan and Cam Heyward both drafted in 2011 after Adrian Claiborne
January 30th, 2018 at 9:19 pm
Rrsrq
Yeah the Bucs has a long history of drafting the wrong players.
January 30th, 2018 at 9:38 pm
Lake
I don’t think it’s simply drafting the wrong players cuz there’s an endless list of former Bucs with rings. It’s the environment, the owners, coaches, fans and town.
I think ASJ said it best in his AA video. If you haven’t seen it check it out I think joe posted it around 2 weeks ago.
January 30th, 2018 at 9:57 pm
Alex smith traded to the redskins
January 31st, 2018 at 12:11 am
@ jimmy
I would love for you to send the link where lewis teammates tuned him out. What i remember is his team playing doubly hard for him his last year when lewis was hurt. I remember them holding down the the fort for the last 4 to 5 weeks until he came back for the playoffs and they marched on to win the superbowl. All im saying is derrick brooks talked about defending every blade of grass and that mentality did not start on sundays but during practice. The patriots motto is do your job. That mentality does not start on sunday but it starts during the week of practice. The players have to drive that.
January 31st, 2018 at 8:45 am
So they let the team go 5-11 to teach them a lesson, Right!
It just makes me wish, we would have hired a real coaches.
January 31st, 2018 at 8:59 am
The hits just keep on coming with this BS front office/coaching staff…
So you need other players to stand up to Fatty? You brought in a problem, then want the other employees to fix it.. Dirk should stop doing pressers, he comes off looking really bad most of the time. Joe calls him a straight shooter, I say yeah, right in his own foot.
January 31st, 2018 at 9:03 am
Dirk is an OK OC. Definitely not an HC. We will have a new staff when all the back pay is paid up to former coaches, What we have now is Raheem 2.0. Just a place holder.