Lauded For Talent
January 9th, 2018
“See Jason, I told you that you did well in the draft.”
It seems Bucs fans, when you boil right down to it, don’t give a damn if a general manager is the next Bill Polian or Bruce Allen.
Currently, many Bucs fans have Bucs AC/DC-loving Jason Licht as their Public Enemy No. 2 behind Bucs coach Dirk Koetter. It’s all about eating W’s for many fans.
Joe once on this very site got into a back and forth with a long-time, valued commenter. Joe believed — and still does — that former Bucs rock star general manager Mark Dominik was better than Bruce Almighty. Joe stands by that firmly. Just look at the drafts, an area where Bruce Almighty was horrendous.
Nope, didn’t sway the loyal commenter.
Why? The commenter (correctly) pointed out the Bucs made the playoffs twice with Bruce Almighty, never with Dominik. Therefore: Bruce Almighty > Dominik.
In other words, as Koetter famously said two years ago, the only thing people give a sh!t about are wins.
And it is this spirit why Joe brings up the following. While a group of Bucs fans are angry at Licht (due to the record of the Bucs since he’s been on board), nationally, Licht is well respected.
In fact, Raymond Summerlin of Rotoworld.com seems to blame Bucs coaches for not developing the players Licht has provided and the Bucs’ drop to 5-11 this season.
Record is not reflective of how much talent is on the roster, which makes it surprising Licht is keeping the band together
Summerlin is of the mind that there should be changes to the coaching staff, and Joe believes he is right. Joe loves Mike Smith but at the end of the day, that horrible defense and his coaches’ inability to develop a young defensive end or young cornerback fall in his lap.
Problem with Summerlin’s typings is, he seemed to give Smith a pass saying the defense played well early in the season. Summerlin may want to re-evaluate his source.
January 9th, 2018 at 5:46 am
All teams have talent. The Bucs don’t have talent at some key positions and Jason Licht is now on year 5 of his rebuild. It doesn’t take this long. The Bucs have a worse record under Jason Licht than they did under Rock Star.
By the way, Dominick was better than Bruce Allen. There’s more to being a GM than just drafting players.
January 9th, 2018 at 5:49 am
Yup. I still think it’s a coaching issue, not a talent issue. I know some think it’s the other way around. I think coaching can easily make up for a less talented team, but it never generally works the other way around. There were many players that seemed to regress this year. In many cases the guys that stood out this year were rookies and even last year a couple who stood out last year were also rookies. And guess what… those rookies that stood out last year suddenly don’t look so hot. Also we are too used to seeing guys we figure are garbage go to another Team and at least be solid or in some cases perform very well. Look at how many Patriots players look solid and then don’t do so well on other teams. Coaching people.
January 9th, 2018 at 5:52 am
Licht has done a decent job imo. This team is way more talented than when he came in with Lovie. Heck this the best offensive set of players we’ve seen as Bucs fans. Coaching is an issue more than personnel. Especially when the head coach said it was the most talented team Jameis has ever had.
January 9th, 2018 at 6:12 am
I think Licht has done good in the draft (great compared to our previous GMs) I’d say a B overall is about right because of Aguayo and basically the entire 2016 class was terrible. Hopefully Spence and Hargreaaves can rebound and I think they can with good coaching.
Speaking of coaching, we need a new QB coach, a RB coach, D Line coach (sorry Jay), and D backs coach.
These are the guys in the players ear one on one most often. They have the highest ability to mold and develop these players to reach their potential and they’re not getting it done.
I wont even go into Licht on FA I mean its atrocious even if you forgive him for the Lovie roster he earns a D at best. Grimes doesnt count either because he’s obviously a Smitty guy.
Overall Licht is a good drafter with the ability to not only hit his 1st rounder (league avg about 50% and he is at 75) but to find mid round quality starters.
January 9th, 2018 at 6:30 am
Not a talent issue. We have an awesome.gm, we have an awesome.head coach who.I believe will blossom as he continues.
We lack defensive coaches. It’s as though this team feels they are obligated to run zone defense because that’s what they won a championship with.
Jon Gruden himself has said on MNF THAT if you base a defense on soft zone it’s gonna get shredded no matter who you have. Yes I realise zone is still used and it works but not when you run it 90% of the time, and play so far back you.need a cell phone to talk TRASH to.the wr.
Fix the defense and this team.is.playoff bound….Love Jason Licht
January 9th, 2018 at 7:02 am
He says its surprising Lichts keeping the band together. I doubt thats the case. I think if it were up to licht he would have canned dirk and brought in one of the new england boys. Unfortunately the coaching decisions seem to be all on the glazers. Sad. Let licht get some real coaches in here. I think he could turn this thing around if he had that power. This mess is definitely on the horrendous coaching staff.
January 9th, 2018 at 7:07 am
The Bucs defense did play well early in the season against Chicago and after that is went downhill. I think the Bucs do have talent but they also have many areas of need including running back, offensive line, defensive line, & defensive backs. Hopefully Jason will address all these needs in free agency & the draft.
January 9th, 2018 at 7:15 am
@Joe … “Joe loves Mike Smith but at the end of the day, that horrible defense and his coaches’ inability to develop a young defensive end or young cornerback fall in his lap.” Sounds like you’ve been drinking the Licht Kool-Aid also Joe. Develop WHAT DE? Noah Spence? He was developing fine, UNTIL he kept getting hurt. Yup, blame Scapegoat Smitty because a 240 lb DE keeps getting hurt. Don’t blame the guy who drafted a smallish DE for sure. Or develop WHAT CB? VHIII? Should never have been drafted in the 1st round to begin with. There were several DEs & DTs available who would’ve made awesome additions to our DLine; certainly MUCH more valuable to our defense than a short, slow CB who lacks true quickness.
Or maybe than Ryan Smith, who LICHT drafted to be a safety. Scapegoat Smitty tried to fit that square peg into a round hole like he was surely told, but guess what … Ryan Smith wasn’t a safety. Hopefully he’ll become an OK outside corner, but they wasted a whole year. But ya, let’s blame Scapegoat Smitty for that one too.
What other real T-A-L-E-N-T has Licht provided at DE or CB, our 2 weakest positions on defense, for Smitty to develop? Stevie T? See IR. Elliott? Not hardly. Evans? Ahh yes, and Smitty’s coaches have done a pretty decent job with him I think. Check the rest of the undrafted additions at DE … Scapegoat Smitty has them playing MUCH better than Licht has a right to deserve. Provide some REAL T-A-L-E-N-T for Smitty and the position coaches to work with, THEN evaluate them.
January 9th, 2018 at 7:30 am
2017 – Thank GOD we retained Mike Smith!!!
2018 – Fire Mike Smith!!!!!
You’re all insane. You expect a pass rush from dudes who couldn’t catch a cold, yet you expect them to catch QBs? No. Just stop.
January 9th, 2018 at 7:35 am
This team might have talent galore. But where are the WINS? I’ll say it for the zillineth time..This team is going nowhere under Mike Smith as DC. Nowhere but where they are and he is..sittin his a.. up in the pressbox!
January 9th, 2018 at 7:42 am
@DR: The talent on the defensive side of the ball is nowhere close to what it needs to be, so no argument. But am I the only one who was missing some adjustments during a game??
Something like not letting an old AP without any training on a new team run all over us or not letting Julio get the all-time record in yards??
This is on coaching – so imho the scapegoat-thing is a fairytale!
January 9th, 2018 at 7:46 am
When you judge Licht’s acquisition of talent, you have to include the UDFA group.
Auclair, Barber, Brate, Cross, Elliott, Humphries, Martino and then there’s Bobo & Joe Dirt……
Sure, some are still developing but you need players like this on your team so that you can afford the big salaries. We have plenty of cap space. The problem for Licht has been his FA evaluation…..either a talented player lays down when he comes to Tampa or he is no longer effective because of age or injury.
I simply don’t recall UDFA talent under Dominick….and to say he is better than Bruce Almighty is not exactly much of an accomplishment.
Mark Dominick was a lousy GM….pure and simple, that is why he isn’t one somewhere else. He is being propped up…..”for no good reason”.
January 9th, 2018 at 7:52 am
Licht and Jameis have many similarities…
January 9th, 2018 at 7:53 am
It seems Smith is public Enemy #1 with you,despite the fact JL didn’t give him crap to work with on the D line. I wouldn’t miss him but Koetter had a full cupboard and still couldn’t score any points.
January 9th, 2018 at 7:59 am
Licht is much better than Allen. The problem with Licht is his free agent moves and it has to do with the quality of FA’s. One other problem is that he seriously missed on the corner position and DE. Shore those two spots up and you have a winning record.
January 9th, 2018 at 8:02 am
Where is the talent in the defensive backfield, Bucs were last in the league in sacks, what good fg kicker do the Bucs have, how about that running game? Best player on defense was David who licht inherited .
January 9th, 2018 at 8:06 am
One more year…then there will be a new GM and a new coach unless by some miracle, they can build a defense that can hold teams to around 20 a game….
January 9th, 2018 at 8:13 am
Wow, Joe will quote anyone nowadays to build his case to get Coach Smitty fired!!!!! I have a feeling that Summerlin’s source was hard knocks!!!!!!!!! Some need to explain to the sheep the difference between productive “talent” and young “talent”!!!!!!!!
We know what Coach Smitty can do when he got just a little pass rush from Robert Ayers and Rookie Spence!!!!!!!!! Get the man a “real” DE!!!!!!!!
And Joe how can you ask for defensive coaching changes when you demanded that this is a do or die year for NFL GM Licht and Head Coach Koetter?????? They will not make changes like you want even if they might want to change a position coach because their jobs are riding on next year!!!!!!!!!
Go Bucs!!!!!!!
January 9th, 2018 at 8:14 am
LOL, Joe still thinks dominik brought in talent!!!!!!LMAO!!!!!!!
January 9th, 2018 at 8:20 am
Exactly what D-Rome said, plus…
Yes, the players Licht drafts are good. BUT WHERE THE HECK WAS THE RB AND DE THIS YEAR? How on earth does such a great GM not recognize what we all see?! But the Saints got Kamara and the Chiefs got Hunt, both in the 3rd round when we got ourselves another LB. Great….
January 9th, 2018 at 8:25 am
A whole 1 player (That Licht drafted) is going to the pro bowl,amazing!
January 9th, 2018 at 8:32 am
Will Joe bring back the “PESSIMIST” now that the climate of discord and slander are right?????? I remember how “many” coaches were indicted for crimes of “not developing” all of mark dominik’s talent!!!!!!!!!! And the guy Joe is trying to indict is the same coach that got them to overachieve the year before!!!!!!!!!!! The coach that got the defense to overachieve and go on a 5 game win streak!!!!!!! That is the guy that needs to go?????? The sheep and joe need to sit down and think about that!!!!!!!!!
Go Bucs!!!!!!!!!!!!
January 9th, 2018 at 8:38 am
Allen was an empty suit who got personnel right less often than a fan flipping a coin would have.
Dominick was excellent in his handling of the cap and the press, and was pretty good at bottom-of-the roster churn to unearth some hidden talents (penn & bennett being the most famous of the bunch). Unfortunately he couldn’t draft his way out of a paper bag.
Licht has been the best of the bunch in the draft but needs to surrender the Free Agency keys to somebody else in the building.
January 9th, 2018 at 8:45 am
@pick6
NFL GM Bruce Allen had already fixed the cap, and was “ready to spend” as that was one of the points that Coach Gruden was let go, as the Glazers said it was time to rebuild!!!!
And Donald Penn played in 2007 for the Bucs, under NFL GM Bruce Allen watch!!!!! Not talk show dominik!!!!!!!!!
January 9th, 2018 at 8:49 am
@pick6
So you are down to, he was good with the media, and he found Bennett only to get rid of him by using the medical staff so he could crowbar his failed draft picks into the line up!!!!!!
You are not presenting a good case for talk show dominik!!!!!!!LOL!!!!!!!!
January 9th, 2018 at 9:05 am
@German Buc … “The talent on the defensive side of the ball is nowhere close to what it needs to be, so no argument. But am I the only one who was missing some adjustments during a game??” Interesting twist GermanBuc. You admit there’s no real T-A-L-E-N-T THEN accuse Smitty of not making adjustments to compensate? Reality is (1) no talent is no talent, no matter how you carve up that roast; (2) Smitty DID in fact work multiple adjustments … Example: Bucs blitzed about 28% of the time (22nd most in the NFL) & achieved some excellent results from those blitzes (ranked #4 in terms of productivity from the blitz for sacks, QB hits & hurries). Many other examples, but sounds like your mind is made up, like a lot of others who want Scapegoat Smitty replaced because he couldn’t get the results they wanted from a relatively untalented defense when compared to other NFC South teams for starters.
January 9th, 2018 at 9:14 am
A winning team seems to be a lot more than just a collection of talent. Otherwise, wouldn’t the Cowboys, instead of the Pats, be winning the Super Bowl every year?
January 9th, 2018 at 9:18 am
They are right this team is talented and in some case very talented and that is the issue. We have more than enough talent at TE, LB and WR but zero talent at DE, OG, K, CB, and Safety (just a little I guess). That adds up to a pretty average team then throw in a few injuries and you get 5-11.
January 9th, 2018 at 9:22 am
I am very glad Licht is still our GM as he has continually done very well in the draft. No one’s 100%, but I like the majority of his picks, and many of them have panned out.
Fans love to cry that he hasn’t drafted enough DE help or RB help or whatever, but they forget that we have only so many draft picks per year, and there aren’t a rich source of talent at certain positions every year.
January 9th, 2018 at 9:28 am
Licht has drafted some pieces that are ok, but he has had ZERO plan in building this team from releasing donald penn and creating the “dunkaneers” how about build a defense from Day 1 in 2014 and then today the bucs are a rock solid team that is built for the playoffs instead of this crap he has been trying to throw against the wall, so licht is by far a good gm and has NO plan to build a team except get it to 5 wins a year
January 9th, 2018 at 9:46 am
@realist, i was not trying to defend dominick, just listing strengths and weaknesses of our last 3 GMs. all had their warts and their warts were\are significant. In hindsight Dominick probably never should have been a GM. His entire stewardship of the bucs veered between irrelevance and outright embarrassment the entire time.
You are right on Penn, my mistake, that was in fact under Allen. FWIW, Dominick was director of pro personnel and was mainly looking for those guys when he wasn’t looking for an aging veteran to fill the holes left by failed draft picks. However, the team was constantly deferring cap issues under Allen with restructures of veteran contracts. If we ever drafted elite young talent requiring a second contract we would have been in a difficult situation. The cap was cleaned with that nasty veteran purge that the Glazers demanded of Dominick on Day 1
I agree with Dusthty Rhothdes and others that Licht does not appear to be a “roster architect” and has a more short-term mindset consistent with his scouting background. that really killed us last offseason, thinking along the linds of better players vs rather than a better roster. small but important difference. a better 2017 roster probably has guys like akeem spence on it instead of a “better” mercenary like chris baker or a less talented coverage team in exchange for a better\cheaper #5 WR than Russ Sheperd. We can only hope that he continues to learn from mistakes for now
January 9th, 2018 at 9:49 am
*a more talented coverage team rather than a better\cheaper #5 WR than Russ Sheperd.
January 9th, 2018 at 10:00 am
the domino effect from the aguayo trade has really blighted licht’s record.
-consider the major holes on this team of DE, RB, DB
-a 3rd and 4th rounder were traded for a 2nd rounder. the lower picks could’ve brought 1 or 2 rotational\depth players at those positions of need. the higher pick could’ve netted a starter at one of those spots
-if one of those guys is an RB maybe you do better than Ryan McNichols in the 5th and pick a depth DL or DB. You perhaps move on from Doug Martin and splash more free agency cash on players (although licht’s FA track record makes that a slightly generous assumption)
-Justin Evans looks like a good find but if one of those 2016 guys is a starting safety or #2/#3 DB maybe you fill another hole in round 2 in 2017
-if those 2016 picks were d linemen of any quality, they probably are upgrades over Will Clarke and whatever other warm bodies were coming off the edge by the end of the year
not to mention, the kicking crisis cost the bucs a playoff berth in 2016 (keeping them off hard knocks!!!) and a win or two in 2017, putting you and your coach on the hot seat
Roberto Aguayo could end up being the thread that unravels Jason Licht’s career
January 9th, 2018 at 10:01 am
Obviously, Joe is correct about Dominik.
Look at all the NFL teams that have rushed to hire him. Below is the list.
January 9th, 2018 at 10:05 am
@pick6
so an assistant brought it to dominik who then brought it to Bruce Allen who then signed Penn!!!!!!! Funny you do not try to credit the director of pro personnel with Bennet!!!!!!!!!! LOL!!!!!!!!! who was the director of pro personnel for Licht with Brate and Humphries???? and why are you not singing their praises!!!!!!!!!!
And you are wrong on the cap!!!!! I would link it for you, but I do not want Joe to block it so!!!!! credit to an unknown source!!!!!
“The cap suffocation would last through the 2004 and ’05 campaigns, as well, as Tampa Bay was approximately $19 million over the salary cap in Allen’s first two years in Tampa.
“We’re in good shape right now,” Allen said. “We’re at about $24-million under the cap. We’re $36-million under the ’08 cap and $49-million under the following year’s cap.
It 10:00 and I just told you what time it is!!!!!!!! TWICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
January 9th, 2018 at 10:10 am
@pick6
While you are at it you should credit Simeon Rice to radio show mark dominik as well, since he was Pro Personnel Assistant at the time!!!!!!!! LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!
January 9th, 2018 at 10:20 am
Wow guys there is just too much black and white and simple commenting going on here. This is complicated and very nuanced.
EG…who was better…Allen or Dominik…well we immediately simply go to the players they drafted and the Buc’s record. I like Dominik’s picks better but honestly I do not know how much influence Allen actually had. When you surrender 2 first round and 2 second round draft picks and empty the Brinks truck the guy you just hired as coach became the power center…not the GM.
Fast forward and I have the same feeling about Licht…don’t know about his first year because of Lovie’s power.
Not saying Chucky or Lovie’s power was the absolute determining factor in their success or failure but it was significant.
It’s just not that simple. Just like comparning MM and #3…one has a better offensive line and RB the other has better receivers…they each have different defenses and competitive balance in the NFL right now is a little skewed. We’d all love to see how the Bucs would have fared playing in the AFC and the Titans lame schedule.
People are making too many absolute statements when there are soooo many factors including LUCK that go into this equation. The official who booted the ball with 9 seconds left taking a pass away from us to get into FG range.
How about MM’s great TD throw to himself. Does anybody believe that was a planned play of course not. Give MM props for quick athletic skills but it was totally lucky the ball bounced right back to him. LUCK!!! It does effect games and seasons.
Here is one simple observation I shall make. We have no pass rush and we do not block well for the run. Simply fix those two problems in the off season and the Bucs will be fine….given the right LUCK of course which includes #3 getting a clean bill of health on his right arm and the crap in Arizona fading away without penalty to #3. One thing is sure…we are due for some good luck!!
January 9th, 2018 at 10:28 am
Summerlin is of the mind that there should be changes to the coaching staff, and Joe believes he is right. Joe loves Mike Smith but at the end of the day, that horrible defense and his coaches’ inability to develop a young defensive end or young cornerback fall in his lap
SO WE HAVE COACHES THAT CANT DEVELOP YOUNG PLAYERS!!!….
THIS YEAR SHOULD BE FUN!!!!
GO BUCS!!!!
January 9th, 2018 at 10:32 am
The Buc Realist Says:
January 9th, 2018 at 8:32 am
Will Joe bring back the “PESSIMIST” now that the climate of discord and slander are right?????? I remember how “many” coaches were indicted for crimes of “not developing” all of mark dominik’s talent!!!!!!!!!! And the guy Joe is trying to indict is the same coach that got them to overachieve the year before!!!!!!!!!!! The coach that got the defense to overachieve and go on a 5 game win streak!!!!!!! That is the guy that needs to go?????? The sheep and joe need to sit down and think about that!!!!!!!!!
THAT 9-7 SEASON IS NO DIFFERENT THAN RAH’S 10-6 SEASON……A STR8 FLUKE!!!!!!……
defense didn’t overachieve…..we beat some teams that partied too hard the night before…..last year was a fluke!!!!!….GO BUCS!!!!
January 9th, 2018 at 10:40 am
I think Licht has done a good job it’s not his fault Doug Martin been playing us from the beginning all he wants is money as far as free agent goes you can’t blame it on all Licht he good GM lot of our players didn’t get a chance make some chemistry the fact is we had a lot of injuries this year on defense and offense and our head coach doesn’t know how to use all the players he has to calling plays if he were smart he go out and hire offense of Mind genius with all the players he has I think our o-line will just be just fine I think it’s time we go out get players that love football not just to make a paycheck we lost a lot of close games this year I think will win a lot more games next year now that we have a kicker. hope that we don’t get the injury bug that Hunted us all last year.
January 9th, 2018 at 10:55 am
I am a huge supporter of Licht.
His drafts have been some of the best in the last 15 years. You cannot complain about Licht without remembering GMs that came before him. Everyone who is a draft follower will tell you 1st round picks are the most important. But the person who is a student of draft strategy will tell you it is the players after 1st round that matter the most. That is where you build your team and add depth. Licht is of the Bellichek tree and understands that. We have a lot of players who have made the roster from the 2-7 rounds. Those players total way more snaps a game than the 1st round picks.
We also need to remember all of the UDFAs that have been brought into the roster. UDFA is called the second draft and can be called the second FA period. To those students of the Draft like Licht, he knows you need to spend as much time scouting UDFA as the Draftees.
Nobody complains about Auclair, Barber, Brate, Cross, Elliott, Humphries, Martino and then there’s Bobo & Joe Dirt……
Remember there is more to a GM than just FA, Draft, contracts, Cap, public relations, ETC. There is the UDFA process which he has been nailing on the head.
Licht is growing as a talent evaluator. More than the last 2 GMs. Why in the world would Buc fans want him gone? It is so frustrating to hear that.
January 9th, 2018 at 10:58 am
Somewhat agree with Defense Rules on this – at least in regards to this specific point by Joe:
“Joe loves Mike Smith but at the end of the day, that horrible defense and his coaches’ inability to develop a young defensive end or young cornerback fall in his lap.”
What defensive end? Will Gholston I guess? Mike Smith was supposed to make Will Gholston good at rushing the passer? A guy who has never been a pass rushing type DE?
Becaues the only other candidate in terms of a young DE was Noah Spence – who was hurt all year. Our DE group was sh1t and it had absolutely nothing to do with Mike Smith.
Now on CB – I can buy that a little. Smith was on staff and likely an influence as to us drafting VHIII / Ryan Smith to play S. At least the coaches recognized Smith was better at CB in practice.
However – VHIII hasn’t developed so I would point to Smith for that. VHIII seemed to play better in press and Smith did not scheme well to help his CBs. Think of putting Ryan Smith – basically a rookie CB this year – and putting him on an island with Julio f&cking Jones.
@813
The difference in the Rah season and the 9-7 season is that we beat good teams during the 9-7 run. In those 10 wins in 2010; we didn’t beat one team as good as the Falcons / Chiefs / Seahawks / Saints / Panthers teams we beat in 2016.
The only winning team the 2010 team beat was the Saints in week 17 when the Saints already clinched were resting players. All other 9 teams were losers; and some of the worst defenses/teams in the league that year.
That’s why 2016 had me believing man. We beat more good teams that year than any I can remember since we let Gruden go. We were relevant in December; and trending up at a 6-2 finish to the season.
The defense’s performance was a fluke in retrospect; but that was still imo the most accomplished season since Gruden – which is still sad as f*ck lol
January 9th, 2018 at 11:12 am
i get it realist, you think bruce allen is good at his job. i strongly disagree. he left the team with no young talent and a patchwork of veterans playing their last NFL snaps. In washington he fired the guy who was getting most of the credit for assembling rosters that kept the redskins relevant in december and january
regarding dominick, i don’t know if you are itching to bash dominick or fellow posters or just don’t finish reading my posts but i have unequivocally said mark dominick did not deserve to be a GM, never got the franchise beyond “not an embarrassment” (and much less than that at multiple points) in his tenure, and cannot draft good players to save his life. have a nice day
January 9th, 2018 at 11:26 am
All the talk about Coach Smith lack of talent, not lack of coaching. How can a seasoned Veteran Defensive coach have a gameplan that is never changed every single play all game long all season long? That plan is to allow the Db’s to play off coverage, not like 3 yards off, but 7-9 yards off. Is this a new type of defense plan? I remember reading that Coach Smith allows the DB’s to decide if they play off and how far off they want to be. Can we change it up at least? Play press on half of our series, a third, once a half…? We need to make the QB’s we play against very nervous skittish in fact, by beating on them the whole game. The lack of pressure being it from DLmen or Blitzes or a combination of both causes the DB’s to have to cover 1, 1.25,1.75 seconds longer. if the pressure were to get to the QB sooner the passes are not always accurate. If we are disrupting the WR’s route by hitting them in the mouth every play within the five yards allowed this also causes passes to be thrown into the wrong spot. Not so sure it is not both lack of DL/DB talent, lack of coaching in game adaptations to the what the hell was that plays. Maybe like 3rd and 7 and our DB’s are 8 yards off and back up at the snap, which has resulted in way too many easy first downs. It does get old to watch. Again and again and again.
Go Bucs!
January 9th, 2018 at 12:07 pm
Every team in the NFL has talent ( you have to have talent to make it to the NFL).
Some teams has more talent
Some teams has a system
Those teams get player that fit their system
January 9th, 2018 at 12:21 pm
@MORT…..WHOEVER THE HE’LL SAID THANK GOD WE RETAINED MIKE SMITH OBVIOUSLY DIDN’T PAY CLOSE ATTENTION TO ALTANTA WHEN KOETTER WAS THE ONLY BRIGHT SPOT ON THE COACHING STAFF.
HE NEVER SHOULD HAVE BEEN HIRED
January 9th, 2018 at 12:30 pm
LC SAYS: The defense’s performance was a fluke in retrospect;
that’s the only point I was trying to make….
after that 10-6 season I was believing that we may finally become a contender…but we fell hard on our face the following season…..dirk almost turned me into a believer with his coaching ability but he came out this year and shat the bed…..not all on him, but he’s the man in charge…..this is an important year for everyone at one buc place….owners…coaches…players….GO BUCS!!!!
January 9th, 2018 at 1:13 pm
@Lord C & 813bucboi … “The defense’s performance was a fluke in retrospect.” That’s an interesting observation. I don’t agree with it at all, but it’s interesting. In the 2nd half of 2016 season, the Bucs won 6 lost 2. In the 6 wins, the Bucs’ defense gave up 80 points TOTAL (13 pts/game)/ In the 2 losses (Cowboys & Saints), Bucs’ defense gave up 57 points TOTAL (27 pts/game).
Analyze those 2 losses and you’ll see TWO things in common. First, Bucs OFFENSE committed FOUR turnovers against the Cowboys, and TWO more turnovers against the Saints (i.e., we lost the turnover battle big-time). Second, BOTH the Cowboys and the Saints outrushed us by quite a bit, giving them (for one thing) an advantage in time-of-possession (Cowboys had 36 mins TOP & Saints had 32 mins TOP). In other words, Bucs matched up very poorly against both teams (remember the Bucs having problems stopping the run? Thus enter Fatty Baker to shore that up. Yup, good job on that one Licht).
Fluke you say? Not hardly. Took that 2016 young defense 8 games to learn Smitty’s system (1st year in it) AND learn how to communicate within it, then they took off. Licht’s solution? Blow it up and insert a bunch of new pieces AND provide no real DE or CB additions. McDougald – gone. Akeem Spence – gone. Daryl Smith – gone. No DE additions. No CB additions. Yup, must’ve been a fluke.
January 9th, 2018 at 2:46 pm
DR
2017 was evidence last year was a fluke…..simple as that!!!!….GO BUCS!!!!
January 9th, 2018 at 3:20 pm
DR
per @joe
The Bucs defense also had the worst third-down defense — by far — allowing 48 percent of third downs to be converted.
The Bucs also had the NFL’s worst pass defense.
but yeah, last year wasn’t a fluke…..LOL…GO BUCS!!!!
January 9th, 2018 at 3:51 pm
DR
If you go look at the good teams we did well against defensively – many were missing key starters. The Seahawks were starting pretty much all backups on their offensive line. KC was missing their best CB and pass rusher. There was an article breaking it down and it had me pausing because I really didn’t think it was a fluke either for a while. And it probably wasn’t a total fluke as much as it was unrealistic to expect that type of performance in 2017.
I didn’t think we’d go from good to worst in the NFL though – which is basically what our defense was in 2017. You can’t blame that on the offense or turnovers… we could have lead the league in turnovers and that isn’t enough of an excuse at all. Denver has had great defensive performances with sh1t for offense the last few years for example. We also moved the ball up and down the field most games – and did fine with time of possession; and had plenty of punts with favorable field position for our defense to make stops but they didn’t.
They also didn’t really blow up the defense at all. Darly Smith retired basically lol… and Beckwith was an upgrade. THey kept pretty much the same d-line / secondary; and added Justin Evans/Wilcox along with Baker /Beckwith.
The problem was Baker was a bust; Spence was out for the year; and Ayers fell off a cliff. That alone is why the D-line sucked. Combine that with lengthy injuries to David/Kwon/VHIII/Grimes and Tandy never making an impact vs playing like an all pro safety in 2016; and there’s most the factors for the decline.
It seemed as the team was dealing with less roster turnover week to week the defense did better down the stretch. There still is no 4 man pass rush at all – and without that we will never be a good defense regardless of coaching imo.
January 9th, 2018 at 3:59 pm
DR – here is a stat that you can’t spin using the offense or turnovers or really anything:
Tampa was 31st in the league in average yards given up per an opponents drive; and 32nd in points given up.
It’d be one thing if on average the opponent’s had really short fields because of offensive turnovers – leading to easy points and inflating that points per drive stat – but we were also basically dead last in yardage per drive given up as well.
That means our defense f*cking sucked lol. Period.
January 9th, 2018 at 6:23 pm
@Lord Cornelius
32nd in points given up????? are you sure???? I saw a rank of 22nd in the league of pts give up??