Elite Company
January 9th, 2018
Gaudy numbers.
Joe is a big believer in audience engagement. That means this corner of the interwebs is sort of a two-way street.
As Joe has stated — and done — don’t be shocked if Joe uses for a post (and credits the author) a smart Twitter or an intelligent take made in the comments, .
Well recently, a guy who follows Joe on Twitter, @Jameis1on1, did some research and floated the results to Joe. Since a guy went through this much work and put the data in a graphic, Joe of course was going to give the guy (?) props.
In short, he compared the numbers of America’s Quarterback, Pro Bowler Jameis Winston, to a few other quarterbacks who are either in the Pro Football Hall of Fame or will be someday. Jameis is in good company.
In other words, the only thing Jameis doesn’t have in his first three seasons compared to folks like Brett Favre, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady and Drew Brees is wins.
So, just using this graphic, it sure seems like the Jameis haters need to take a chill pill.
January 9th, 2018 at 8:07 am
He can have all the stats in the world like a Dan Marino
But like Dan Marino has said many times………he said he trade all that for a chance to play and win in the SuperBowl.
I personally hate it when people bring up stats all the time to justify how good a player is. I mean, I get it……numbers don’t lie
…but so do good decision making at key moments to help you win games….<—-and that stat will never be on any stat sheet.
January 9th, 2018 at 8:11 am
Has Jameis promised to name his first 2 sons Joe ?
January 9th, 2018 at 8:17 am
Tony Romo had some of the best stats in nfl history. Need I say more.
January 9th, 2018 at 8:18 am
he’s also got between 1 and 3 years on each one at this point in his career. I’m not worried about Jameis right now. However by the 4th season all those other guys were a big reason their team made it to the playoffs regardless of what was happening elsewhere on the roster. Manning had studs to throw to like Jameis, Brees and Brady not so much.
January 9th, 2018 at 8:23 am
@Anthem, what Dan Marino says is easy to say. “i’d trade it all in for a ring…” But would he really rather have Doug Williams’ or Jeff Hofstedtler or Trent Dilfer’s career than his own at the end of the day? A fraction of the stats, no MVP, no HOF…heck, no being the gold standard of being an elite player with no ring….all to be on a team that made it over the top once?
January 9th, 2018 at 8:25 am
Jay Cutler went 57 tds-37ints and roughly 10,200 yards in his 1st 45 games so Jameis doesn’t only compare with all pro qbs, he also compares with so crap qbs. The problem with Jameis is he needs a better coach, playcaller.
January 9th, 2018 at 8:25 am
You guys can’t stand giving the kid credit. Sad. He’s got the weight of the franchise on his shoulders, at a very young age, and you “mature adults” deride him. Bufoons.
January 9th, 2018 at 8:25 am
GIve the Mann a chance and a break. Let’s be real the kids going to elite and one of the greatest. Il live with him making many mistakes just to bring us back. That’s what makes him him. He’s not Brady Rodgers. He the take it all or nothing mentality. If you take that away from him you take away his magic. Let him play live with the mistakes
January 9th, 2018 at 8:29 am
For where we are with the Bucs right now, stats are all we have. Jameis is going to be great, period! Yes, we have talent, but we need more. In particular RB and DE, TWO VERY CRITICAL POSITIONS for a team to win. How can an NFL team win with a one dimensional offense and absolutely no pass rush on defense?! The bigger mystery here is how does a allegedly great general manager not see this glaring holes, but we do? Reminds me of our Lovie Smith days.
January 9th, 2018 at 8:30 am
They don’t care Joe. Jameis has had the worst defense and horrid special teams, but it’s his fault bc the turnover he had in the 1st half hurt the team more than the leads he had given us and our defense wet the bed or kickers blowed the fgs.
January 9th, 2018 at 8:30 am
If you spell ‘buffoon’ with one ‘f’ (bufoon) does that make you a buffoon?
January 9th, 2018 at 8:32 am
Bortles goes 69 tds and 51 picks with over 11000 yards in his 1st 46 games so I guess he compares favorably to Drew Brees.
January 9th, 2018 at 8:36 am
@GoBucYourself
Unless they are in the act of typing it with one “F” then it is just Buffoonery!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
January 9th, 2018 at 8:49 am
@Harry in Costa Rica
Well said.
Jamies is going to be an elite QB in the NFL for a very long time.
The Bucs have the worst ranked defense in the NFL and in my opinion the worst group of running backs in the NFL.
One dimensional on offense and the worst defense in football.
There has never been a QB in NFL history that has been able to win with that formula.
Bucs have the most important piece of the puzzle. If the Bucs have an average running game and an average defense they will win double digit games next year.
January 9th, 2018 at 8:49 am
Once Jamesis’ “Oh shats!” stop eliminating his “Atta boys”, he’ll truly be elite. I think he can. We’ll see.
January 9th, 2018 at 8:59 am
As Joe has stated — and done — don’t be shocked if Joe uses for a post (and credits the author) a smart Twitter or an intelligent take made in the comments, .
______________
I’ll be shocked if Joe uses an intelligent take that shines a negative light on Pensacola’s QB (of which there are many) and his losing ways as that doesn’t fit the narrative around here.
January 9th, 2018 at 9:12 am
He will be a great QB when he wins. Until then he’s just a guy with gaudy stats on a bad team.
January 9th, 2018 at 9:21 am
@Joe … “In other words, the only thing Jameis doesn’t have in his first three seasons compared to folks like Brett Favre, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady and Drew Brees is wins.” Obviously Jameis has the wrong coach, because Koetter himself said that all that matters is WINS.
Reality IMO Joe is that Jameis is a fantastic young talent, and he’ll be our franchise QB for many, many years (well, unless Licht & the Glazer Boys do something REALLY DUMB like trade him or not re-sign him). As good as his stats have been, two things stand out to me: (1) his OLine is average to marginal; (2) he’s not getting the desired results in the Red Zone (i.e., we’re not scoring enough points to win … duh). That’s partly on play-calling AND partly on Jameis.
@Wausa … “The Bucs have the worst ranked defense in the NFL.” You write that EVERY time Wausa, but it’s still a bogus stat. POINTS SCORED and POINTS ALLOWED are the only REAL measure of an offense’s or defense’s productivity. And the Bucs were #18 in POINTS SCORED and #22 in POINTS ALLOWED.
If you really want to cherry-pick stats, Bucs’ offense was #15 in percentage of drives ending in a score, while the Bucs’ defense was #5 in percentage of drives allowing an opponent to score. Strange what you can do with statistics, isn’t it.
January 9th, 2018 at 9:27 am
winston doesn’t make some of those breathtaking throws if he does what people are asking for. the difference between brilliance and stupidity in the fans’ mind is often based on the outcome and not the actual decision. that amazing scramble and lob to mike evans vs the bears 2 years ago? that will be part of Jameis’ career highlight reel because Jameis gave his guy a chance to do something amazing, but if mike evans doesn’t outleap 3 guys it’s another play fans are complaining about when they talk about the “stupid risks” jameis takes.
i could live with him not heaving the ball when he literally cannot see\control where it’s going, but a pick while trying to hit Cam Brate between 2 defenders is something you have to accept if you wanna see Cam Brate compete and make an awesome catch in double coverage on a Jameis Winston bullet from time to time.
January 9th, 2018 at 9:28 am
Hard to win in Tampa… weak ownership, soft defense led by captain blowout cancer93, no free agents want to play here. Franchise has 4 good seasons in 42… Tampa was a loser way before jameis for many reasons. Jameis has the desire and determination to overcome the losing culture led by cancer93 but can he overcome the worst owners in pro sports on 2 continents
January 9th, 2018 at 9:33 am
So lightingbuc lets say you put Drew Brees on this exact team how do you think we would do? Keep in mind that this year Jameis was sacked 33 times on only 442 attempts and Drew Brees was sacked only 20 times in 536 attempts. Also please keep in mind that Brees would not have Karma (OROY) and the former 1st round pick Mark Ingram and he would not have Cameron Jordan racking up 13 sacks on his defense. I guess we would be just a dominate team with Brees getting pounded to death every game with no running game and his defense giving up points at will. Yep it doesn’t matter cause it is 100% the QB that wins and losses games. Oh that’s right the last 3 years without a running game and with a defense that wasn’t any good the Saints, with a healthy Brees, won 7 games each year. Look at that they get better on defense and add a running game and they are good. I guess Drew Brees just got good this year, silly me.
January 9th, 2018 at 9:42 am
a Rb and a guard or two and the offense will be just fine!!!!!! But I don’t see how comparing with QB’s from almost 20 years ago is relevant??????
Go Bucs!!!!!!!!
January 9th, 2018 at 9:45 am
All I know is JW defined winning before he was drafted by the team who defined losing. U will complete trial mix of results. Go figure
January 9th, 2018 at 9:47 am
And I just looked at the some highlights and tape of Quentin Nelson for the first time. I’m impressed. No way he falls to number 7 stop dreaming
January 9th, 2018 at 9:51 am
What SCBucsFan said!
All those stats mean nothing without the W’s, sorry. For those still not sold, what would you say if Jameis QBs a playoff-less team for the next 5 years but continues putting up numbers? Are we then going to keep comparing him to HOF’ers because he has stats?
Wins! Build the trenches and maybe the wins will come.
#BuildtheTRENCHES
January 9th, 2018 at 9:59 am
Since JW gives the ball away like it’s “Halloween candy” wouldn’t it be more telling to show all TO’s lost?
January 9th, 2018 at 10:05 am
Pick6
Way to pop Marino’s bs bubble. Yes let’s see if he wants to trade his stats and career with Trent Dilfer or Brad Johnson?
I like both Dilfer and Johnson and appreciate their skill sets but they were not GREAT QB’s….as much as I dislike Marino personally he was a GREAT football player.
January 9th, 2018 at 10:21 am
Very impressive. Just give that man a running game WITH Payton Barber and even a mid-tier defense and he’ll be playoff bound.
I’m sorry but the NFL needs the Bucs. These playoffs have been terrible offensively Just awful.
January 9th, 2018 at 11:24 am
Great article, Joe!
Any negative hater in the comments below who can’t understand the necessary growth pattern for a just turned 24 year old QB has called themselves out as not being knowledgeable at football
What this really highlights is the number 1A and 1B problems the Bucs face.
The trenches on both sides of the ball.
Until the Bucs go All-In on fixing the offensive and defensive lines, the Bucs will struggle. 8 new faces need to be brought in to COMPETE with the incumbents and improve both lines.
Fix the trenches, fix the Bucs!!!
January 9th, 2018 at 11:32 am
You are not going to be good if you have the worst defense in the NFL
2014 Atlanta finished 6-10 with Matt Ryan as the QB
2015 New York Giants finished 6-10 with Eli Manning as the QB
2016 San Francisco finished 2-14 with Collin Kaepernick as the QB
2017 Tampa Bay finished 5-11 with Jamies Winston as the QB
Additionally, the Bucs had a suspect kicking game, a massive amount of injuries and one of the worst running games in the NFL.
January 9th, 2018 at 11:49 am
Sorry, but I don’t see a character rating on that charts. character will dictate the futre, and the future is bleak with jameis and the bucs for going after guys like him and d. jackson. team would have been better w/o d. jackson. anyone thinking rationally and not just looking at stats would have known that….but hey, if you need stats to justify something go for it.
January 9th, 2018 at 12:07 pm
@ wausa
And future HOFer Drew Brees had a losing record in 4 of the prior 5 seasons before this year.
It’s a team game.
The only QBs that can get to the playoffs with bad or mediocre teams are maybe Rodgers and Brady; and Manning before he retired.
Even then – Rodgers has been in the NFC North beating up on Chicago/Detroit/Minnesota most his career. The Lions and Vikings are not bad – but they aren’t the equivalent of the Falcons/Panthers the last few years.
Same with Brady – the Jets/Dolphins/Bills every year. The NFC South destroys that division in terms of competitive talent & QBs.
Big picture we have a pretty damn QB who just happens to be in an insanely competitive division on the weakest roster/team within it. That said – we’re 8-10 in the division with Winston – which isn’t bad all things considered. Split the division / win your home games / win the games you should on the road = typical playoff formula.
January 9th, 2018 at 12:16 pm
Koetter is our future coach for next year so we all need to be hoping he’s gonna be a good coach. Teams go from worst to first all the time. And if Koetter does that I wouldn’t be surprised and I wouldn’t blame him for jumping up on his press conference podium and giving the D-GENERATION X SUCK IT to every Bucs fan and media writer that wanted him gone.
January 9th, 2018 at 12:17 pm
This is football, not golf or tennis
This is a team sports
You win or lose as a team
Individual stats mean nothing, if they don’t create wins for the team
Everything a player does don’t show on the stat sheet
Jim Plunkett won 2 Super Bowls with the Raiders
And never pass for 3,000 yards in a season
January 9th, 2018 at 12:30 pm
Ben Roethlisberger. Give Winston a team (not simply that “weapons for Winston” nonsense) and we will be good for a long time. T-E-A-M. That includes among other things effective (not saying we have bums) coaching, play-calling, and game-time adjustments. Thoughts below:
QB- check (I list this position individually because of its importance over all others (IMO). IMO you need a franchise (I didn’t say elite) QB to win consistently, and we HAVE one. Give him a better TEAM and he will be elite.
Effective Running Game (I didn’t say running back)-check minus due to demonstrated inconsistency.
Effective Defense – Minus (cannot finish last in so many categories AND not be able to make a stop X4-5 games and get a better grade)
Consistent Special Teams – Check (arguably check minus based on the returns we gave up at the end of the year)
Coaching Scheme/Play Calling (Offense) – Check. Our current scheme is good (not perfect) as evidenced by the numbers and the fact that we were in position to win in the last 2-3 minutes of 4-5 games this year.
Coaching Scheme/Play Calling (Defense) – Minus (arguably, our scheme is fine, but IMO the play calling was poor…I could be wrong and it was just poor execution)
In game adjustments (Offense) – Check. I think we saw some good work by the offense over the last part of the season. They need to start faster though, for sure.
In game adjustments (Defense) – Minus (if you cannot get one stop when leading the game in the last 2-3 minutes in 4-5 games, you earn a minus)
Lots of reasons (some may call them excuses) for the assessments above. Not saying anyone on our team (to include coaches) is a bum. But if we want to be consistently better, IMO these things need to be addressed. I’m betting they will. BL: Maintain or improve the checks. Attach and improve the minuses. Seems simple, but the art is in conducting an honest appraisal and most importantly not chasing one thing at the expense of another.
January 9th, 2018 at 12:34 pm
Some of you reasonable thinking fans might as well give up on the simplistic crew.
….the ones who think stats don’t matter…unless you are the athlete looking for a new, in the Jameis case, a better gig!
….the ones who think the QB alone makes the team formidable🤓
January 9th, 2018 at 12:51 pm
There’s 53 players on a NFL roster, and everyone of them has a role. One player can’t carry the other 52 players and the 52 players can’t carry that one player. Every player has to succeed at his role, that’s the formula to winning.
“This is a team game and one man doesn’t win and one man doesn’t lose. In the end, the best team usually wins.”
— Wilt Chamberlain
January 9th, 2018 at 1:30 pm
It is sad how Deplorables react to the truth. BrianBuc, Alterego, Lightning, etc.
January 9th, 2018 at 1:35 pm
Robert,
You should be more concern about the character of your president more so than the character of a football player.
January 9th, 2018 at 3:07 pm
For those saying winning is all that matters… game winning drives over first 3 seasons as starters…
Winston, 8
Brees, 7
Favre, 9
Manning, 11
Brady, 15
Of course winning is a team sport and that shows up when looking at Brady’s record in particular since he stepped into an established winning situation. For Manning he by far had the biggest single season turnaround of the bunch, going from 3-13 to 13-3, and for those that say SEE, HE’S NO PEYTON MANNING, well, OK then, he’s not.
January 9th, 2018 at 3:27 pm
loggedontosay Says:
January 9th, 2018 at 1:35 pm
Robert,
You should be more concern about the character of your president more so than the character of a football player.
______________
Umm, we’re on a website devoted to Bucs football. What does the President have to do with anything here?
January 9th, 2018 at 3:35 pm
TheBucsAnthem Says
“I personally hate it when people bring up stats all the time to justify how good a player is.”
Here’s the problem I see with that line of thinking…it takes a team to win games. No one player can do it himself. I’m not a huge stat guy, but they have their place. Otherwise, records would not be set. Comparisons to the past cannot happen without them.
For example, the Chicago Bears defense of renown…without quoting the stats, all they had was a championship…which is a great thing, but it doesn’t really paint a full picture of hos good they really were.
January 9th, 2018 at 4:44 pm
Stats help make comparisons, and the comparison made before the draft was that Winston was in the mold of Brett Favre, a high risk/high reward gunslinger who is a lot of fun to watch play. Some dullard the other day said said that Winston needs to play like Alex Smith – LOL! Well, that was in the first half of the game, my response was, like Alex Smith, meaning he needs to put up decent stats when the game doesn’t matter and then choke it away in crunch time. Amazing how some people are just who they are. Winston is not Alex Smith, he’s not a choke artist, he’s not boring and he doesn’t have a ceiling that ends at the first round of the playoffs.
January 9th, 2018 at 8:26 pm
He just turned 24. Hasn’t even taken a snap at age 24. Kid won’t fumble forever and he won’t keep throwing the ball up for grabs. Get JW through this Uber situation and watch out! He’s gonna take the next step. He took the step this year in camp but got hurt. Injury killed his performance.