O-Line Haters/Doug Martin Apologists
December 15th, 2017
Data dooms.
So, for those who still cling to the fantasy that all of Doug Martin’s ills running the ball are due to the offensive line, the folks at NFL Films provide evidence to the contrary.
Their film gurus documented teams that have been the best/worst at rushing yards before contact.
The Doug Martin apologists scream his problem is the offensive line. Hold up, says BSPN NFL Matchup, which is produced by NFL Films.
They ranked the five worst teams rushing the ball before contact as the Dolphins, Raiders, Lions, Bengals and Cardinals. Obviously, struggling at this statistic often means running backs are getting blasted behind the line more than they would prefer.
The Bucs are not among the five worst.
Martin currently has 402 yards rushing through 13 games. Every one of the five teams mentioned above has a running back with more yards than Martin, who has the 29th most carries in the league.
As Joe has been saying all year, and with the recent surge of Peyton Barber most Bucs fans can agree, the offensive line is not the sole culprit for Martin’s struggles.
December 15th, 2017 at 12:21 am
The offensive line is not even close to being this team’s biggest concern. In my opinion we shouldn’t waste a single pick on the offensive side of the ball during this years draft. Chucky can come in and give this offense the kick in the shorts it needs. However, we must heavily address the d-line and secondary. I’d be fine with 4 rookie defensive linemen and 3 corners. That should at least turn out 2-3 capable nfl players. I know some are beating on the table for a RB but barber looks sufficient for this offense next season. Rebuild this indefensible defense!!!!!!
December 15th, 2017 at 5:03 am
BuccLuck, don’t fall victim to Joe’s daily drumming that the Bucs’ defense is ALL bad and the Bucs’ offense just needs to get rid of Martin to be awesome. I’d also like to see us go heavy defense in the draft, focusing (like you did) on DLine & CB priorities. But reality tells me that we’d end up with the same record next year if we did JUST that.
You win (or lose) in the NFL as a T-E-A-M. Any & all weaknesses get exploited every single game as we all have seen too many times. Our problem right now is that we have LOTS of weaknesses … on BOTH sides of the ball … that other teams have gotten very adept at exploiting. That’s on ownership & management IMO. Our GM didn’t draft nearly as well as Joe & others have given him credit for (skewed priorities) His FA pickups have been mediocre (at best) since 2014. Trades have been non-existent (and yes, there have been players ‘on the trading block’ who could’ve helped us). Sorry, but you ‘get what you pay for’ in today’s market, and the Bucs went cheap.
December 15th, 2017 at 5:15 am
First Half
• 1st – Att:5 | Yds:16 | Y/A:3.2 | TDs: 0 | 1st Downs Rushing: 0
• 2nd – Att:15 | Yds:42 | Y/A:2.8 | TDs: 0 | 1st Downs Rushing: 3
1st Half (T) – Att:20 | Yds:58 | Y/A: 2.9 | TDs:0 | 1st Downs Rushing:3
Note: His average going up as defenses wear down
Second Half
• 3rd Att:30 | Yds:133 | Y/A: 4.4 | TDs:1 | 1st Downs Rushing:8
• 4th Att:15| Yds:57| Y/A: 3.8 | TDs: 1 | 1st Downs Rushing:4
2nd Half (T) Att: 45 | Yds:190 | Y/A:4.2 |TDs: 2 | 1st Downs Rushing:12
December 15th, 2017 at 5:25 am
Also bear in mind – Payton Barber’s Stellar 2nd Half.
Were against 3 of the leagues – most mediocre defenses against the run.
Case In Point:
Rankings | Worst Rushing Defense | Total Yards
• #13. Detroit Lions – 1512
• #14. New Orleans Saints – 1486
• #15. Green Bay Packers – 1479
Payton Barber Vs.
• #13. Detroit Lions (T) 28-133-1 | Payton Barber: 12-58-0
• #14 Jets (T) 25-87-0 | Payton Barber: 11-34-0
• #15. Green Bay Packers (T) 35-165-0 | Payton Barber: 23-102-0
Total: 46 carries for 194 yards.
December 15th, 2017 at 5:33 am
I LUV the momentum the kid is building – but before we go anointing him; as the next Cleveland Gary. I need to see more from him – and our often beleagured Offensive line.
December 15th, 2017 at 5:53 am
At this point with Barber is he is just a stop gap until he proves more!
December 15th, 2017 at 5:56 am
I’d still draft a RB in the first few rds. But CB needs attention. And we need to start over at DE. Trade for fowler, sign ansah, draft Nnadi and with McCoy the DL can at least play football
December 15th, 2017 at 6:29 am
Ahh Joe has us seeing the light! If we had just started Barber we would be 13-0 and winning the Super bowl. Dang the bad luck!
December 15th, 2017 at 6:30 am
This is a lame point if you can’t provide us with the Bucs stats.
December 15th, 2017 at 7:06 am
Donavin Smith worries me and not consistent enough, how long will Sweezy hold up? so there are a few concerns with the O-line, but Corner Back position scares me the most, is football being coached out of Hargraves? He has a lot of talent and athletic ability we all saw it last year, why would this year be a complete 180 for him? he’s playing scared it seems and Grimes has one foot in retirement and i don’t see the same effort as he had last year. We NEED D-linemen and corner back and safety depth. I don’t see Ward or Faker coming back and hopefully a new Defensive coordinator too. A lot of rebuilding on defense, just hope we can find the missing pieces soon.
December 15th, 2017 at 7:15 am
I can’t wait till we release Doug Martin just so these weekly Martin articles will stop. They will stop right?
December 15th, 2017 at 7:16 am
Defense Rules and LUVMYBUCS has it right. I’d like to add that Barber’s poor pass blocking skills will most likely get Jameis killed at some point… but that’s not the point.
This all goes back to Joe’s prediction that Doug would be gone by the time his suspension was over, he even bet on it, and for whatever reason, Joe had hurt feelings over the Bucs keeping him and starting him. Joe’s reeling right now with every article they write like this one, that validates why he should have been gone from the beginning. I don’t know why Joe takes things so personal.
This is funny on many levels. First, Doug Martin was the worst starting running back in the NFL last season. That is not spin. That is fact, lowest yards per carry in the league. And the other guys in the Bucs backfield had much higher yards per carry. Of course Joe was adamant in wanting him replaced. Joe’s interest is in winning. Joe is not interested in being right. Joe was simply certain that Martin was all wrong, and you know what, 9 out of 10 Bucs fans finally saw the light before Sunday yet Dirk Koetter still started Martin inexplicably. Jameis was not the worst QB in the NFL last year, like Martin was at his position. So start there. Second, Jameis hasn’t progressed this season, but he hasn’t been brutal and is just 23 years old. Anyone who writes that Joe isn’t critical of Jameis simply isn’t reading what’s written on this website, including Ira Kaufman’s last column.-Joe
I read Bucs articles from various credible internet sites, and this is the ONLY site that smashes Martin weekly. Why is it so important for you guys to be right? I can damn near write an article about any current player on the Bucs team that has failed to live up to expectations. And what about “America’s Quarterback”… Jameis Winston? He has not been good this season, for all intensive purposes, he’s regressed with more weapons than most NFL teams currently have on their roster, to where people are looking at him as the next RGIII. Yet you tread lightly on criticizing him? You manage to sprinkle just enough negative press on him to show your not “bias”… Sure Joe.
Not to worry Joe, Doug will not be with us next season, you’ll have to find a new whipping boy for your articles.
December 15th, 2017 at 7:18 am
With the exception of perhaps very few outliers, I don’t know of any poster for or against Martin so to speak, that says it’s an “either/or” thing. Everything I’ve posted, and everything I’ve seen has been to the effect of it being a combination of factors, where you can’t put all the blame on one or the other. For every “expert” that puts out stats on one things, there are others who put out numbers to the contrary. Big deal.
Good teams, with good leaders find a way to make 1+1=3.
Bad teams, with bad leaders find a way to make 1+1 = 1. Or even 0.
This team has numerous problems. It is why any single player or group of players may thrive elsewhere, or has thrived in the past, but can’t get it done now. Too many negative factors interacting with each other.
December 15th, 2017 at 7:29 am
I would have liked to see how we stacked up against the rest of the league. I think the worst 5 having more yards than DM is saying something but how many more carries do they have? As stated in the post DM is 29th in carries. I think looking at yards before contact as it relates to yards per carry and also looking at broken tackles would give us a better picture.
Not advocating for DM, I personally think we should have never re-signed him.
December 15th, 2017 at 7:29 am
one of the reason Hargreaves was demoted is because he was not playing tight enough coverage. I remember Mike Smith talking about it and saying they told
Hargreaves about it and he still kept playing the same way.
December 15th, 2017 at 7:41 am
Roy, I think you are exactly right on this one. It has been a combination of things all at different times…”consistently inconsistent” in just about every position and phase (offense/defense/special teams). Still plenty of good things we can have happen this year. I’ll keep watching and rooting for the Bucs. Go Bucs!
December 15th, 2017 at 7:45 am
Good points,Luv my Bucs
Just the facts,not cluttered with extrapulotions or projections .
December 15th, 2017 at 7:46 am
edit:
extrapolations
December 15th, 2017 at 7:51 am
I rarely agree with Joe, but the Bucs were wrong in bringing Martin back, at full price mind you. Hunt, Kamara, plenty of cheap rookies could’ve been had in rounds 2, through 4. Add his three game suspension to the mix, Licht screwed the pooch on this one. Barber is a keeper, but we will need to draft at least one back before round four this year, and hope to get more help there in the later rounds, or UDFA’s. D end is a priority, but won’t completely fix the pass rush. Didn’t the Browns, and 49ers draft D ends in the 1st round? They’re not exactly playoff bound. We also need D.T.’s, corners, and either a center, and or another guard for the O line. This is a bad team from the inside out. We better find a G.M. who won’t waste draft capital on kickers, and signing lazy F.A. D lineman.
December 15th, 2017 at 7:53 am
Please let Barber finish the year as starter so we can see what we have. I beg of you. I beseech you!!
December 15th, 2017 at 7:55 am
Send this article to that moron Koetter.
December 15th, 2017 at 8:08 am
Martin is better than Joe thinks (and will likely prove it on another team next year).
The Oline is worse than Joe thinks (both starting guards in particular have been bad at run blocking).
December 15th, 2017 at 8:26 am
You forgot to write how much you like Doug Martin damn seriously you got something right congratulations but I mean beating the dead horse is really pointless. The entire world already knows the guy isn’t better than barber at this stage in his career and we all know it would be commiting career suicide not to take the out he gave you in his contact so honestly the only thing you should be writing at this point is why this head coach your sucking off continues to start him and make him he’ll like he’s a major piece on this team going forward. .
Don’t take it personal pure frustration with this coach and I want them all gone along with Martin, Conte, sweezy, Ayers and gholston the guy they paid all that money for run stopping ability on a team that can’t stop the run
December 15th, 2017 at 8:28 am
BoJim Says:
December 15th, 2017 at 7:53 am
Please let Barber finish the year as starter so we can see what we have. I beg of you. I beseech you!!
We will see a RB that will get 20 more yards a game then a worn down DM22 ,but he can not pass block!!!!!! if you take all these RB to training camp next year, DM22 will look the best of the bunch again, but will wear down after games!!!!!!!!
The answer is the same as the guards!!!! They are not good enough!!!!!!! if you want this roster to be in the ” playoffs or bust” caliber that some mistakenly thought this year!!!! Then they need to be replaced and upgraded!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Go Bucs!!!!!!!!!!!!
December 15th, 2017 at 8:58 am
@Pickgrin … “The Oline is worse than Joe thinks (both starting guards in particular have been bad at run blocking).” Preach on Pickgrin! Marpet had solved one of our Guard problems so what did the Bucs do? Yup, moved him to Center so now we have TWO problems at Guard. I keep thinking back to when Alex Mack was a FA that we could’ve had for a reasonable price. What did Licht do? Let the Falcons sign him & we moved our best Guard to Center. Brilliant. He also thumbed his nose at Jake Matthews as a LT when he was a FA and could’ve been had for a reasonable price. Result: Falcons signed him also. And yes, BOTH ARE NOW STARTING, and we’re once again struggling with OLine problems.
@ Realist … “they need to be replaced and upgraded!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!” Preach on Realist!!!!!!! Build from the trenches out.
December 15th, 2017 at 9:46 am
$9M is pretty expensive for a Center DR. But I get your point and agree to a degree that Licht has not put enough emphasis on improving the Oline by any means available in order to protect the franchise QB investment and boost the running game.
To be fair – his options for obvious Oline improvement have been somewhat limited – but as you pointed out – Mack could have been brought in for a high price (which we WERE in a position to afford if OLine help was considered a priority) and Tunsil could have been drafted instead of Hargreaves.
If those 2 moves had been made, I imagine we would be in a good bit better shape up front right now…
Tunsil – Pamphile – Mack – Marpet – D. Smith
December 15th, 2017 at 9:46 am
I see the joes are beating the dead horse again…
December 15th, 2017 at 10:45 am
“Yards before contact” is entirely different than “first contact at least 1yd. behind the LoS.”
This OL was built to protect Winston, not run the ball. They are better dropping back than blasting forward. There has not been one game where they dominated the LoS. Once again, I suspect they lead the league in RB first hits behind the LoS.
Of course, Joe isn’t bashing Martin 24/7 except when he’s bashing Martin 24/7.
December 15th, 2017 at 1:40 pm
That same O-Line will be back next year …=REDRESSION!!!!
December 15th, 2017 at 1:41 pm
^REGRESSION^
December 15th, 2017 at 2:02 pm
Martin sucks.
He sucked before, he sucks now.
When another team signs him- he will play great, until he fools them into giving him a big contract
And he will suck then.
He has never played good, unless it was his first year, or contract year.
Once hes in the money- he lays down.
And its pretty obvious to see.
Unless you just wanna stay blind.
December 15th, 2017 at 2:20 pm
I’ve been critical of the oline, but in pass protection. It’s hard to be objective, though, when you’re watching Buc’s games because our pass rush is so poor