No-Win Situation For Koetter
December 13th, 2017
Who has an agenda to split these two up?
If one is to swallow Ian Rapoport’s report whole, Bucs coach Dirk Koetter was and is in a no-win situation.
A refresher: Rapoport rolled a hand grenade into the bunker Sunday morning with a report that Koetter and America’s Quarterback, Pro Bowler Jameis Winston, are not totally on the same page and their relationship is, well, strained.
One issue Rapoport cited was an alleged lack of support from Koetter when Jameis was hurt. Just on face value, Joe can’t buy that claim.
Koetter, in public comments, has been over-the-top in heaping praise upon Jameis in recent weeks. Just last Friday on SiriusXM NFL Radio, for example, Koetter went on a long soliloquy about how the public perception of Jameis is twisted and unfair and that folks should back off. Koetter also said, in so many words, as long as he’s the coach of the Bucs, Jameis is his quarterback. That’s just one of many examples Joe could cite.
If that’s not support, Joe doesn’t know what is.
But let’s, for argument sake, take the lack of support charge as true (even though there really isn’t any evidence). When Jameis was injured at Arizona. the Bucs returned to Tampa Bay that night 2-3. Now Koetter has on multiple occasions made it clear that Jameis returned to the starting lineup because he was medically cleared to play, and of course, Jameis thought he could overcome his bum shoulder, even though he really couldn’t (outside of the Buffalo game).
So what was Koetter supposed to say to support Jameis? Was Koetter supposed to rave about Jameis playing while physically being damaged goods? That would be beyond stupid.
Joe can only imagine the collective seizures Team Glazer would have suffered watching their coach talk about willingly playing The Franchise while he was too injured. Joe is confident the second time Koetter lauded Jameis for playing when he should have been shelved, Koetter, for all intents and purposes, would have effectively signed his resignation (see: Whisenhunt, Ken; Tennessee or Shanahan, Mike; Washington).
Yeah, the easy (smart?) thing for Koetter to do would have been to shut Jameis down. But as Koetter has said repeatedly, Jameis was cleared medically and Jameis thought he could play through it. Granted, even a one-legged player with a blown ACL is going to beg to stay on the field and the head coach is supposed to be the adult in the room. Just look how a vocal mob of Bucs fans are screaming for a new coach with the current 4-9 record. Koetter knew full well he needed wins. Damned if you do; damned if you don’t.
Koetter was and is between a rock and a hard place.
Joe isn’t sure what the source of Rapoport’s report wants Koetter to do, outside of resign. Someone sure as hell seems to have an anti-Koetter agenda.
December 13th, 2017 at 8:06 am
I hope Koetter stays
………get a good DC because we’ve all seen ENOUGH of this horrible defense
December 13th, 2017 at 8:09 am
@Joe … “the head coach is supposed to be the adult in the room.” Article could’ve stopped there Joe. The rest is excuses for Dirk not doing what a HC is supposed to do: put his T-E-A-M in the best possible position to win. Continuing to play Jameis didn’t do that, and bunches of Bucs’ fans knew it. Why Koetter didn’t is beyond me.
December 13th, 2017 at 8:15 am
And BucsAnthem, Smitty is NOT the problem. Licht stocked this defense with mediocre players & then everyone expected Smitty to pull off a miracle. There are no miracles in the NFL … just good, talented players making plays and good, talented coaches putting them in the best positions to do that. The first half of that equation isn’t happening often enough right now, and it’s impossible to tell if the second half is until this roster is fixed. Bucs ranking 22nd in Points Allowed tells me a lot about Smitty & this defensive coaching staff given this mediocre roster. BTW, I too hope Koetter stays, but as the HC not as the OC. He’s shown that he can’t wear BOTH hats simultaneously.
December 13th, 2017 at 8:16 am
@ Defense
……and you’re assuming the latter
What makes you or any other bucs fan so sure that he was unfit to play???? Media or Speculation driven???
These players always play hurt or through pain and we all know this. If he’s cleared to play….then end of story.
Besides….it doesn’t matter anyways cause the defense would’ve just “gave up the booty” again
December 13th, 2017 at 8:19 am
Here’s the Deal:
Brady pressured last night like Winston has been for three years – 40 percent completion percentage and 1 TD ……… Cutler protected like Brady normally is with some good offensive game plan like Brady gets week in and week out – 70 percent completion % and three tds
Dolphins back up RB at beginning of the year goes well over 100 and Avg over 4 yards a carry………… Patriots running game was a clone of Doug Martin and the Bucs over the last 20 games.
Coaching ,coaching ,coaching ,coaching !!! New England got out coached , And And Brady got pressured like Winston does week in and week out and he was way worse than Winston .”… You must protect the QB, Koetter never has !!! Nor has he ever had a running game and you don’t need a stud RB to do it but you must have a clue as to your best players Koetter Doesn’t !!! it’s. Really PrettySimple !!!
December 13th, 2017 at 8:23 am
@ Defense
I was on that same bandwagon inregards to the defense and not have the players…..but watching what we’ve been witnessing is downright offensive. It’s all about coaching and schemes, wouldn’t you agree? The best coaches do this to squeeze max potential out of their players and we’re not even seeing a drop of it.
…..and I didn’t think I could’ve seen a worse defense from Lovie until this year under Mike Smith.
December 13th, 2017 at 8:25 am
They are an one offensive lineman, a running back, a cornerback, a pass rush, and another year to mature away from being a damn good team.
Those calling for the coaches head are idiots. Absolute morons who know nothing about football.
They need the stability of management and the coaching staff.
The defense simply needs a pass rush and one more good CB.
December 13th, 2017 at 8:26 am
Just because Koetter says the right things on the podium doesn’t mean he is supporting him behind the scenes
December 13th, 2017 at 8:32 am
I hope Jameis supports Koetter by helping him pack his belongings in boxes at seasons end. For those who want to Blame Smitty more then Koetter lets not forget who hired his pal Smith in the first place. One can also blame Licht for that, since it’s really his job to find the best D.C. available.
December 13th, 2017 at 8:36 am
D.R. It’s the same reason he insisted on rolling with Doug Martin instead of Peyton Barber. The same reason he’s been giving Adam Humphries more snaps than Chris Godwin. Despite Peyton and Chris being more productive with less opportunities. The man is stubborn and stuck in his ways.
December 13th, 2017 at 8:41 am
I want Koetter to stay but he needs to either give up play calling or just pretend he’s the head coach. And concentrate on his offense. Apperently he’s having a problem right now doing both. We have the weapons and he just seems confused. Sophmore jinx perhaps?
Still amazed that Shannaham allowed that to happen to RG111z
December 13th, 2017 at 8:46 am
You’re exactly right, Joe. Koetter is a “no-win”-kinda coach.
December 13th, 2017 at 8:48 am
@ Getaclue
Bingo. How many coaches don’t support their quarterback publicly. Joe needs to find his head from where it’s buried deep.
December 13th, 2017 at 8:48 am
If Koetter stays the only way we get a new Defensive coordinator is if Smith gets his by the Giants. Fingers crossed
December 13th, 2017 at 8:51 am
Go hire the con man Glazer boys.
Don’t listen to the local hack media or moronic fan base that that ran him out of town to begin with.
If you want to win and not ruin Winston.
December 13th, 2017 at 8:57 am
Kotter is dealing with an immature kid.
December 13th, 2017 at 9:07 am
When Shameus was at FSU, Jimbo got on his a$$ all the time for dumba$$ plays. A coach is there to coach, not powder the players a$$es
December 13th, 2017 at 9:11 am
Solution:
Keep Koetter
Keep Licht (extend three years)
Replace Smith
Hire an offensive coordinator from outside the organization
Hire a new defensive line coach
Trade Gerald McCoy for a first rounder and a 4th rounder
Trade Fitz for a 5th to a needy team (he went 2-1 when called upon, so he’ll have value)
Try to find a great RB in free agency
Find a young stud DT in free agency
Draft a DE in round one
Draft a DT in round one
Draft a RB in round two
Draft a DE in round three
Now, I don’t want McCoy gone personally, but he has the most value of all our players. This year.
Lavante David might have some value, and we could slide Beckwith over in a pinch, but Gerald can get us the most bang for our buck.
And for heavens sake, can we get a real FB on this team so the running game can take off???? Year after year people say FBs have no place anymore, yet everything else this team tries has failed. Try something new for a change!
December 13th, 2017 at 9:14 am
btw, I heard on the podcast when Barber was compared to Earnest Graham. I think that is a fair comparison.
Graham was Mr. September, earned a starting role, and once he got it did poorly. That’s what I believe Barber will do.
The franchise RB of this team is NOT on the team yet.
That said, a good run blocking OL and a good run blocking, short yardage FB will help just about any RB look good.
December 13th, 2017 at 9:15 am
Eric Says
“If you want to win and not ruin Winston.”
lol, yeah. Because Jon Gruden never ruined QBs while he was here…
Come on, man…lol
December 13th, 2017 at 9:19 am
Issic Haggins Says
“You must protect the QB, Koetter never has !!! Nor has he ever had a running game…”
Well that’s total bull.
The starting OL has been very good at protecting Winston, and if he never had a running game, how do you explain Doug Martin being #2 in the NFL one year under him?
December 13th, 2017 at 9:28 am
There are multiple reasons to criticize Dirk Koetter.
This isn’t remotely one of them. This is sensationalist rumor mongering.
December 13th, 2017 at 9:41 am
I think support can mean more then lip service in the media. The independent evaluation of the shoulder indicated there was something not right behind the scenes. Koetter has a long history in the NFL….not a lot of complaints about the guy from his past players. Winston routinely butted heads with Fisher, seems to enjoy wallering in controversy……The issue is Winston but the fall guy will be Koetter.
Another angle to this is Winston is in yr 3 and not showing any growth. His representatives #1 goal is to somehow/someway get him that $100 million deal. Parents do this in little league sports…..blame the coach for not using their kid the right way, the coach has favorites, blah blah blah……With a $100 million up for grabs, the blame game is on the table and it wouldn’t shock me if its coming from his parents. Also, from a public relations perspective, it changes the dialogue from Winston/Uber to Winston/Koetter.
December 13th, 2017 at 9:43 am
Anti koetter for good reason
No one is saying we’re almost there have dirk one more year to get us to the playoffs, were not even a wildcard team, Dungy was fired for losing in the playoffs. We’re gonna give this guy another year to say let’s see if he can have a winning season. The NFC sounds and the division in general is tough, you can’t have the weakest coach in the division and in the division thinking he will compete with playoff coaches. Dirk is not taking this team to a Superbowl, he is still worried about motivating players to practice
December 13th, 2017 at 9:51 am
Yes, trade fitz who signed a 1 year contract, next year…
December 13th, 2017 at 9:54 am
Bonzai- I would have agreed about Koetter until about 2-3 weeks ago when he spoke about his mindset when we failed on that 4th and 1. He coaches scared and that’s not how you win football games.
As far as Licht goes, failing on VHIII in addition to the Aguayo fiasco might be enough to seal his fate as well.
I hate the thought of constant turnover, I really do. The Glazers will have to ask themselves if this mess is fixable.
December 13th, 2017 at 10:14 am
the only people in a NO Win Situation are Buc Fans…. With Glazers in charge and crybaby cancer93 still on roster the roster the fans are truly in a no win / hope situation.
December 13th, 2017 at 10:25 am
Koetter ultimately has one job… win. Period.
How he does it is a variable that should be understood when a coach is hired. If Koetter was only capable of winning with a healthy and efficient Jameis – then how is Koetter any different or better than any random average Joe coach?
I think we found out this season that he is not.
There were sooooooooo many red flags coming into thew season on a bad mentality coming from the coaches. GMC loved to say something that Koetter always told the team… “We need to go 8-0 at home, then we can go 4-4 on the road and make the playoffs.” GMC said this a dozen times during the offseason, Hard Knocks, and during the season – always saying he was quoting Koetter when doing so, What? Go 8-0 at home and then you can play .500 ball on the road??? Who thinks like that? That’s ridiculous. NOW – look at how the Bucs play at home vs on the road, especially on defense. It’s night and day. You don’ think that mindset has anything to do with it?
Now, look at New England. One game at a time. One play at a time. Do your job. Then on to the next one. That’s it – nothing else. Bellichick doesn’t have his guys look at the big picture of an entire season and discussing which games it is okay to lose and which games are okay to win. When I saw that, I knew right away the Bucs did not have the right man leading the charge. I hoped I was wrong… it’s time to move on.
December 13th, 2017 at 10:34 am
Its a done deal except for Koeter and pressbox Smitty..packing their bags and leaving Tampa.
December 13th, 2017 at 11:02 am
Bonzai please let us know who is in the market for a overpaid 29 year old injury prone DT hat is willing to give up a 1st and a 4th, not gonna happen, maybe a 4th, but the most likely scenario is he gets cut due to salary and expected deterioration of skills, which is not the Buc way, the Bucs usually cut bait too early or hold on too long
December 13th, 2017 at 11:38 am
We are simply weak in the trenches on both sides of the ball!!!!
Our OL can’t run block….our DL cannot rush the passer…that’s two fundamentals that are killing us right now!!!!
#buildthetrenches!
December 13th, 2017 at 12:04 pm
Jon Gruden did wonders with Rich Gannon and Brad Johnson…..
c’mon man……
December 13th, 2017 at 12:21 pm
@ joe, ……scoring under 20 pts under koetter has the agenda LOL
its one or the others fault …which one joe?????writing has been on that wall for 3 years!!!!
and no I do not want that number off the bathroom stall…..cause it STINKS
December 13th, 2017 at 12:24 pm
You let’s JW his third coach. What happens if he still sucks?
Are we locked into a $120 mill worthless QB?
Blow it up again. Fire the Glazers.
December 13th, 2017 at 12:27 pm
Buccaneerbonzai……sorry but your comments are ignorant and one sided as FU**
when did we have a top tier talent at qb w/ gruden …..we were never THAT sorry to have a top 5 pick but once
and 25 teams passed on aaron rodgers not just the bucs….he publically attoned for that *gruden
he sure took chris simms and Garcia to the playoffs though LOL
your agrgument is just petty and futile…….
December 13th, 2017 at 12:54 pm
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I think the main problem is that Koetter is an OC and NOT a head coach. Every year there are hot OC’s and DC’s that are given HC positions and no one really knows whether they are capable of being HC’s.
To me, I’d love to see Gruden return and Koetter accept a “demotion” back to OC … but I doubt he’d ever do that.
Heck, I’m with Will Cain who believes that HC’s simply need to be motivators who can handle people with quality coordinators in tow and that they therefore do not need to have any “experience” in coaching … he wants Tony Romo to be the next Cowboys coach … and I agree with him.
The above said, to me, RAY LEWIS, could be one of the greatest head coaches the game has ever seen … as long as he has great coordinators game-planning for him.
I’d love to see Ray Lewis as our next head coach with the Patriots coordinators (McDaniels and Patricia) in tow … but of course, no owner will give Ray a HC job with no experience and BOTH the Patriots coordinators will probably ONLY accept a head coach job themselves to leave New England … such is the conundrum that all teams needing a new head coach find themselves in, which is why so many retreads are hired year in and year out …
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December 13th, 2017 at 1:02 pm
If there is a next coach….smart move is to draft a solid QB prospect. It gives the coach….the organization so many angles of protection. Even if Winston is playing decent or well, if the prospect behind him has equal upside (tony romo/prescott) the team has leverage and the ability to move on. Bucs have to make the investment now to avoid the constant musical chairs of GMs/Coaches…..unless the plan is to simply always rebuild and take the easy tv money.
December 13th, 2017 at 1:09 pm
It’s funny, you have fans (even The Joes saying) Dirk takes it too light on players in the offseason, but now the fans want to bubblewrap Jameis the rest of the way. Look, we have a lot of youth on offense, and we need to get cohesion going for next year. We also have to a keep a winning mindset despitethw record and learn to win tough games in December. Giving up on the seaskn sends the wrong message with a feanchise qb in place.
December 13th, 2017 at 1:16 pm
Bucsfanman,
You have two sentences back to back , when Koetter went for a 4th and 1. Then state He coaches scared. I don’t believe a scared coach is going for it on 4 4th down. Or taking shots in the end zone when he needs 2yrs for a 1st.
Maybe I missed your point, can you explain the discrepancy.
NFL NUT,
Ray Lewis! Love love love it! I think having RL deliver a pre game speech would probably make JW explode in anticipation. May need a rethink
December 13th, 2017 at 1:24 pm
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Duke,
You and I think alike … I seriously think Ray Lewis is a HOF-coach in waiting … yet no owner will probably ever give him a shot.
I seriously cannot think of one guy on earth that would command more respect in an NFL locker-room than Ray Lewis as a head coach would.
To me, head coaches should NEVER be calling plays anways, so I don’t care if Ray isn’t a play caller … head coaches should be “managers of men” and individuals that can get the best out of all 53 … and I believe Ray Lewis can do that.
Again, my dream matching would be Ray Lewis as HC with Josh McDaniels as OC and Matt Patricia as DC … and not only would no player ever mess with Ray or fail to carry out his wishes, neither would any coordinator … I could see McDaniels crap his pants if Ray just looked at him wrong.
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December 13th, 2017 at 6:41 pm
If Rappaport is saying anything about a strained relationship it had to come from someone close to the story. He didn’t just make the story up out of thin air. As the old saying goes where there’s smoke there’s fire
December 13th, 2017 at 10:16 pm
Bonsai, Koetter as a head coach !!!
Winston got clobbered 17 Times first game back from his injury , the game he got injured he was getting crushed the whole game !!! I believe over the last three years he has been hit far more than any QB in the league.
Btw in a long vertical offense you have to protect even better than normal and you must , absolutely must have a running game. The Bucs have last had a 100 yard rusher over a year ago and You don’t need stud running backs to do it ( hello dip shts, Miami last night against New England). The reason the Bucs don’t is Koetter, plain and simple he is his own stubborn worst enemy .
Martin has been missing holes, running into his own line , running with no patience, running with his head down ,alligator arming easy passes, mis judging easy passes , dropping easy passes , non effective on short yardage , Avg 3 yards a carry for a long long time . No Qb in any offense let alone a long vertical offense will ever be 70 percent as good as they can be . This is in this case purely coaching, 100 percent coaching !!
I have made many comments and predictions prior to situations , not after, prior!!! And to show you I know dam well in and out what I’m talking about , I will make you a nice bold prediction ……… If Koetter stops handcuffing himself and gives Barber 22 plus carries against the Falcons the Bucs will put up 27 or more points on the Birds Mon. This with a mediocre back that is still way way way better to the offense Dirk runs than anyone lease on the roster( which by the way I said very clearly last Oct 2016). Dirk has stopped Dirk and ruined some of Winston this year!!!
Bonsai I appreciate your point but you clearly understand what’s going on ,your just a Bucs homer, if you don’t understand , well then you just don’t understand football!!!
Mike Smith and Licht with the cornerbacks they fielded gave the D no chance and yes I stated this before the season also, the CB play at times is as bad as the NFL has ever seen. Poor Grimes has no no no help and not a lick of good coaching either.