Mission Not Fulfilled
December 21st, 2017
Failed season.
Looking at a half-full glass, things can only go up for cornerback Vernon Hargreaves.
The second-year corner had a very forgettable season, unless you still have seared in your hard drive Hargreaves getting roasted like a marshmallow on an open fire at Minnesota.
Hargreaves had a competent rookie season for a corner and showed promise. Then, he fell off the map. At times, Joe didn’t even know if he was on the active roster or not he was so buried.
Now everyone following the NFL knows the Bucs season is over. Only thing left is figuring out where they will draft in April.
Yesterday, Bucs coach Dirk Koetter got a tad uncomfortable when asked what the Bucs have planned for Hargreaves next year. Koetter’s response reminded Joe of a scene in the movie “Gettysburg.”
Martin Sheen, playing Robert E. Lee, screamed at the actor portraying Jeb Stuart, “There is no time!” when Stuart more than once in the scene offered his resignation after botching Lee’s orders at the famed Civil War battle.
“Everyone will be evaluated at the end of the year and now is not the time for that,” Koetter said. “This week we are on a short week as it is and everything is focused on Carolina. We will address all that stuff at the appropriate time.”
Well, Koetter can look at the bright side: At least he wasn’t asked about Doug Martin’s alleged minor team violation.
As for Hargreaves, Joe is convinced he is Exhibit-A in poor coaching by the defensive staff. How does a guy go from having a solid rookie season to totally falling off the map in a handful of months? Either something happened off the field with Hargreaves, or he was jammed up (ruined?) by his position coaches.
December 21st, 2017 at 6:19 am
DE , DB , DE , DB
This draft should be about 2 position groups . Defensive line and defensive back.
Get free agent oline man . And get Someone better than JR is slightly Skeezy
December 21st, 2017 at 6:31 am
Agree that Hargreaves played better than last year. Mike smith talked about the cushion Hargreaves was giving the better receivers and he said VH3 had some leeway but he was told to decrease the cushion, and they were also looking for him to make more plays on the ball.Since he was demoted ,its pretty safe to assume he wasn’t responding to coaching. My guess is he not as fast or is able
to handle bigger more physical WR’s.
There are times when Grimes when Grimes gets fooled, but he often has the
makeup speed and athletic ability to make up for it.
If VH3 doesn’t improve the Knock should be on Jason Licht for overlooking
the difficulty VH3 had covering Julio for example in college.
December 21st, 2017 at 7:16 am
So much for 4.57 corners……..
Short and slow doesn’t cut it in the NFL……perhaps Jason Licht will figure out that you get corners from FSU, not from Florida.
December 21st, 2017 at 7:36 am
Its exhibit something. A thru O dirk already has on other things. This staff is a mess. I cant put down any players performance with these coaches. Once the new coaches get here and install their systems then Ill be able to. Hargreaves is a good corner. Not when he is playing 15 yards away from the receiver tho. Ask mike smith tho and thats up to the corner. Ummmmm what? Whos the coach here…well not for long.
December 21st, 2017 at 7:42 am
Cant coach short and slow… grimes is short and an athletic freak. the first round BUST vh3 is simply short and slow bum. A complete waste of time. I love when people use the 3xcise well grimes was short. Irrelvant comparison, grimes is an athlete and vh3 is a slug
December 21st, 2017 at 7:45 am
Mike Smith coaches D like it’s 1997 still – he has not caught up to today’s game
His pass D is pathetic – his runD is average but gives up gash runs far too often
The special teams is worse – punt and kick coverage are bad – punts blocked – not prepared to go on the field with 10 seconds left
If DK stays Smith and whoever the ST Coach is MUST GO
December 21st, 2017 at 7:48 am
@Joe … “As for Hargreaves, Joe is convinced he is Exhibit-A in poor coaching by the defensive staff.” That’s precious Joe. Tom nailed it: VHIII is short & slow, not a great combination for an outside corner. First year he got away with it because no one had film on him yet. Once opposing OCs figured out his tendencies, he was toast. Amazes me though how you can give him credit for having a “solid rookie season” but accuse his defensive coaches of being responsible for VHIII turning into a dumpster fire this year. You do realize that those were the VERY SAME POSITION COACHES don’t you?
Not that it matters mind you. Obvious that every Bucs’ victory is credited to the offense and every Bucs’ loss is hung on the defensive coaches in Joe World. Oh, forgot that we all need to heap praise on GM Licht for his wonderful drafting. Newsflash: ANY GM who misses on a 1st OR 2nd rounder should be fired. And he’s missed on several over his 4 years here. No sense in hammering his LACK OF VISION in building this Bucs’ T-E-A-M either obviously.
December 21st, 2017 at 7:48 am
Players decline for only three reasons:
Coaching, Injury or Fitness, Motivation
December 21st, 2017 at 7:56 am
Short and slow…that doesnt work with this crappy DL the bucs throw out there, again…the bucs should have drafted Laremy Tunsil in this spot, corners are all over the draft esp if dunderbox lict would have paid attention to the top WRs at the time in the NFC south Jones, Benjamin, Funchess, Thomas, etc, they are are tall, big and freaks…..as a gator alum n fan I saw first hand what benjamin, treadwell and amari cooper did to VH3 on a yearly basis
December 21st, 2017 at 8:06 am
The guy is a bust, right along with the Eli Apple kid that the Giants grabbed right before Hargreaves. Bad intelligence in the draft room led both teams to waste valuable picks and are one of the major reasons the 2 clubs now have 6 wins between them and are the 2 biggest disappointments for 2017 in the NFL and possibly the whole decade. Lots of talent still on the board and the Bucs take VH3 as well as Aguoyo on day 2…. People say Licht drafts well, he sure did not on the first 2 days of the 2016 draft!
December 21st, 2017 at 8:27 am
I’ve got to side with D.R. on this one. The reason isn’t always “coaching”. Everybody felt that this pick was a little bit of a stretch to begin with. It’s what happens when you draft for ‘need’. I think you have to look at the intangibles, and in this case the intangibles are that this team does not know how to evaluate talent (ie. DEFENSIVE END!).
I truly hope he regains his form. We can ill-afford to keep going to the well for 1st round picks that don’t pan out.
December 21st, 2017 at 8:28 am
as fans we don’t know the whole story…I “hope” he was dealing with the injury all year, to explain his bad play…
December 21st, 2017 at 8:41 am
While I am in favor of acquiring a CB in the off season (since Grimes is retiring), I also think you people are giving up on Vernon Hargreaves far too soon. So he had a bad second year?
Lots of players have that and go on to have fantastic careers.
I suspect he’ll come back next year and do very well, much like Mike Evans did when he had a bad year (and everyone wanted him cut).
December 21st, 2017 at 8:44 am
Vernon Hargreaves received a lot of hype coming out of college. Not sayin he’s a bust BUTT..he’s been nowheres close to expectations. Our Defense just looks slow with 2 or 3 exceptions. Santa Claus Please fix our defense. We cannot stand another 4-12 season! I hope Santa takes DC Smitty back to the north Pole and gives him a pressbox Rocker for Xmas.
December 21st, 2017 at 8:44 am
Tampabaybucfan Says
“Players decline for only three reasons:
Coaching, Injury or Fitness, Motivation”
Too simple. You forget…players also decline because:
Teams get film on him and determine how to stop him
Needs time to learn a new system
Still developing
December 21st, 2017 at 8:47 am
Clw JB Says
“The special teams is worse – punt and kick coverage are bad – punts blocked”
This drives me crazy about some fans.
We went all year without having a punt blocked…it happens ONE TIME and suddenly its a problem.
To me, this shows that you do not watch the games each week or that you have extremely poor memory.
December 21st, 2017 at 9:15 am
As for Hargreaves, Joe is convinced he is Exhibit-A in poor coaching by the defensive staff.
^^BINGO^^
smitty would’ve had jalen ramsey playing off and he would be looking just as bad….VHG isn’t a bust……he’s a man press cb….the defensive staff never played to his strength….everyone noticed how he played much better on the LOS in the slot….so play him at the LOS on the outside…..simple as that!!!!
smitty is killing this kid with his scheme…..play to the players strength and stop forcing a scheme on them….
VHG is only one of the many players that has regressed…GO BUCS!!!!
December 21st, 2017 at 9:20 am
@bonzai
ST has been a problem….kick off coverage has been poor….punt coverage has been poor….blocked kicks….
every facet of the game has regressed under dirk….GO BUCS!!!!
December 21st, 2017 at 9:37 am
Give this team some type of pass rush abilities and watch these corners take off! Kinda hard to cover a receiver when you’re 10 yards off of him and the qb has a full 5-7 seconds to find an open receiver. That’s a recipe for disaster
December 21st, 2017 at 9:55 am
Personally I think Hargreaves played much better when he played at the line of scrimmage. But with mike smiths cover 4 scheme most of the time they are playing off the ball. I say play Hargreaves up at the line and if he sucks doing that then he’s probably a bust.
December 21st, 2017 at 10:12 am
One punt being blocked is too many, i just do not get this mentality with some fans of how it is ok to get a punt blocked or oh shucks we almost won, we will get em next week, this team is going to be 4-12 and people somehow see a silver lining, that is just incredible, this team stinks from GM on down…..I would love to see the bucs go grab or try and grab the Nicktator out alabama, and have him work some magic with this squad, GUARANTEE he turns this team into a contender immediately….ya he was not great in Miami, but belichek was fired in cleveland and it worked out pretty good….this team needs to get kicked in the arse and build a defense, fire GM and coach give saban total control and watch jamies start eating his Ws
December 21st, 2017 at 11:43 am
“Cant coach short and slow… grimes is short and an athletic freak.”
VHIII has a faster 40 and significally better vert than Brent Grimes. The athleticism is there.
I don’t mind trashing VHIII for his play – but this argument simply isn’t valid. There are smaller CBs and slower CBs than VHIII who are some of the best in the game right now.
December 21st, 2017 at 11:44 am
“Newsflash: ANY GM who misses on a 1st OR 2nd rounder should be fired.”
Lol then every GM in the league would be fired.
2nd round is a 50/50 shot. 1st round is like 60/40 or 70/30 at best. There are significant busts every year in both those rounds. Look at the top 3 WR drafted in 2017 – they haven’t done sh1t htis year. Guess all those GMs should be fired today.
December 21st, 2017 at 11:50 am
Jalen Ramsey also plays on a team with an amazingly deep defensive line that wrecks the QB throughout the game. There is no telling how bad or good he’d have been in Tampa; or how VHIII may have been on a team like the Jags.
People can trash the pick if they want but every draft site had VHIII as a premier Round 1 corner lock; and the best pure CB in the draft (since Ramsey played S/CB).
I’m an FSU fan so I have no reason to defend VHIII; but the hatred here is totally misguided sometimes. He has the same measurable’s and athleticism as plenty of premier CBs.
I wanted Rankins with that pick – not because I didn’t believe in VHIII – but because I believe you build your front 7 first and then see how the CBs look. You can’t properly evaluate your secondary when the QB gets 4-8 seconds to pass on average.
December 21st, 2017 at 12:16 pm
LC
I hear you….fans bashing VHG is just ridiculous…..I agree with you about ramsey having tons of help along the dline but im pretty sure if he was in the same situation VHG is in he wouldn’t look as good….but like you said we’ll never know….
as I gator fan, I really wanted laremy tunsil….that was the player we needed….but I was satisfied with VHG because of his skill set and he was also a need…..if we get new coaches, I hope they play to his strengths which are man press up at the LOS….GO BUCS!!!
December 21st, 2017 at 12:52 pm
Lord Cornelius Says:
December 21st, 2017 at 11:44 am
“Newsflash: ANY GM who misses on a 1st OR 2nd rounder should be fired.”
Lol then every GM in the league would be fired.
————————————————-
You beat me to that exact response LC.
DR should know better than to make a ridiculous statement like that.
1st round picks on average turn into “busts” at a 46% rate.
2nd round picks bust at a 50-55% rate
Thus far (assuming VH3 is indeed a “bust” which has yet to be determined) – Licht has a 25% bust rate on his 1st round picks and 33% bust rate on his 2nd round picks. Well below the NFL average on his most important picks.
And just for comparison sake – In Dom’s 5 years as GM – he had a 60% bust rate on his 1st round picks and an 80% bust rate on his 2nd round picks.
December 21st, 2017 at 3:20 pm
“Thus far (assuming VH3 is indeed a “bust” which has yet to be determined) – Licht has a 25% bust rate on his 1st round picks and 33% bust rate on his 2nd round picks. Well below the NFL average on his most important picks.
And just for comparison sake – In Dom’s 5 years as GM – he had a 60% bust rate on his 1st round picks and an 80% bust rate on his 2nd round picks.”
Yep. This is also a great example of how much worse we could be off potentially with a different GM lol. THat’s a scary proposition if we end up with a guy 1/2 as bad as Dominic was even
December 21st, 2017 at 3:33 pm
Yup. Heard Bill Polian talk about this couple of months ago (not sure what you call “bust rate” but guessing you are referring to percentage of failed picks?). Polian said roughly 55 percent of first round picks make it and on second round picks it is 50/50. Of course, percentages drop as the draft grows longer.
Historically, the Bucs are awful with second round picks.
December 21st, 2017 at 3:37 pm
Buccaneer Bonzai who told you Brent was retiring?
December 21st, 2017 at 11:13 pm
Brent aint retiring he is escaping the pathetic franchise that is a complete embarrassment to football fans worldwide…. tampa is less desirable than Cleveland…. thanks glazer