ESPN: Time To Move On
December 23rd, 2017
Under fire.
The four-letter is of the mind it’s time for Team Glazer to turn the page.
ESPN Bucs reporter Jenna Laine takes a deep dive into what went wrong for the Bucs this season. As one can imagine, there’s a lot to work with there.
Laine correctly notes that rarely does a team finish with at least 10 losses without changes being made. And Laine believes in the final analysis, the key change with the Bucs should be a new head coach.
Laine writes that barring a significant about-face in the team’s fortunes the next two weeks, or for Team Glazer not wanting to look like Cleveland South, which makes changes to its staff whenever there is a threat of a frost, Laine types that she cannot find a valid reason for Team Glazer to retain Dirk Koetter.
While Koetter’s playcalling has come under scrutiny this year, a number of the Bucs’ issues have also boiled down to execution. Koetter didn’t fumble the ball at the Atlanta 5-yard line in the second quarter Monday, or on third-and-1 two weeks ago against the Detroit Lions. He didn’t inadvertently pitch the ball to Dean Lowry as he was being sacked, setting up a 62-yard touchdown for the Green Bay Packers. Those plays all boil down to execution, but it is his job to not only put players in the best possible position to make plays but to enforce the details that make flawless execution possible.
In the past three weeks, with Winston back, the Bucs have lost two games by three points or less and one game in overtime. Players are still competing hard, which is a positive — especially when you consider that an absurd amount were injured Monday. But what can’t and shouldn’t be overlooked is that the Bucs have not won a game in the NFC South this year, joining the New York Giants, Cleveland Browns, Chicago Bears and San Francisco 49ers as the only teams that are winless within their divisions. The Minnesota Vikings, Green Bay Packers, Miami Dolphins and Indianapolis Colts have been without their starting quarterbacks for extended periods this year and have all been able to manage at least one divisional win with their backups.
Unless ownership sees a vast improvement in these final games or unless they realize that they were too quick to act in firing previous head coaches after two years, there’s nothing that warrants keeping Koetter around.
Joe is torn on this issue. Has Koetter done a good job coaching this year? Look at the record. That’s all you need to know.
But Joe still can’t get over how Koetter — for only the second time since Chucky was fired — guided the Bucs to a winning season and got the Bucs to within a cat’s whisker of a wild card last year with no running game and just one reliable receiver. It’s as if folks pretend this never happened.
Not counting the fact that this year his quarterback got hurt, and he started the season with a brutal kicker and no reliable defensive end. That’s not on Koetter.
Doesn’t this grant Koetter slack to be able to fix things?
And no, Joe is not yet convinced a guy who only once with the Bucs had a top-10 offense (No. 10 in 2003) and who hasn’t coached for a decade, will magically turn around their fortunes. (FYI, four times Koetter has had a top-10 offense.)
December 23rd, 2017 at 3:10 pm
I don’t know many coaches that want to start a job with your qb looking at a suspension. Keep Dirk as a lame duck coach next year. You never know Jameis might be cleared and Dirk might of spent the off season soul searching his offense and things might click…Would make a hell of a story 20 years from now. lol
December 23rd, 2017 at 3:11 pm
Speaking of ESPN, I’m watching this USF game and Flowers gets tackled way out of bounds. No penalty and then the tard refs flag the USF bench for a 15 yard penalty. Unbelievably ridiculous officiating. What is it with the hate from officiating for Tampa teams?
December 23rd, 2017 at 3:13 pm
Ahhh but Joe if only Dirk was only responsible for the offense still. He’s just not cut out for all that comes with being the head coach. Grudens teams are always motivated. Can’t say that about these Bucs under koetter, and he admits he worries about it….
December 23rd, 2017 at 3:15 pm
The H does this person know. She’s never coached, or played… and she certainly doesn’t watch the Bucs every week like we do. She gets payed to talk, and right now the Bucs are in the mouths of all drinking sour egg nog, and I hate smelling their breath… One more year for Koetter without Mike Smith.
December 23rd, 2017 at 3:20 pm
Just fire Smith. Start the defensive overhaul. 2 more CBs, resign Grimes, trade VH3, 3 new safeties (keep Evans), let EVERYONE on the line go. Trade GMC for a kings ransom, or build around him with pass rushing talent. This idea that they HAVE to stop the run first is old thinking. Who cares if they’re great against the run if instead you have 4 guys in the backfield all day? They’ll be good at the run too…by default.
Obv the LBs are good to go.
December 23rd, 2017 at 3:25 pm
Why don’t we fire Smith, hand off the playcalling sheet, and chalk this year up to bad luck? If Koetter can’t figure it out next year, move on. He has earned one more year, plus at least the players like him, so it isn’t like a Ben McAdoo situation. #KeepKoetter
December 23rd, 2017 at 3:25 pm
CMurda..I too am seeing that..just SMDFH..
December 23rd, 2017 at 3:26 pm
I’m not of a mood to make a move unless it’s Chucky. Mind you I wouldn’t trade koetter for Chucky on the field but Chucky is the ONE choice to sell tickets. Hard to fault the Glazers for selling tickets especially when IMHO Chucky versus Koetter probably close to a toss up with an edge for Chucky.
Bucs fans havee been promised the next greta coach for so lng that we’re numb to these predictions.. I know it’s not darts or horseshoes and we sucked…but I do think we’re close enough that continuity might provide some significant value.
Any talk of selling tickets for next year is simply blowing smoke up ur posteriors..
The franchise NEEDS wins to sell tickets, not a shny new coach.
again though I concede Gruden is in a different category and would indeed sell seats and increase fan enthusiasm dramatically even if it’s not really warranted.
December 23rd, 2017 at 3:29 pm
IM not sure how one bad season gets a guy fired. Schiano/Lovie has multiple bad years.
December 23rd, 2017 at 3:31 pm
Jon also had top ten offenses in 1999, 2000, 2001.
But who is counting.
December 23rd, 2017 at 3:32 pm
Hahaha I feel the exact same way I felt when I decided on my mind that Lovie Smith needed to be fired and nothing was going to change my mind. Barely missing out on a wildcard spot is simply to low a standard and it would be fine if they missed the playoffs again this year but showed that the team was moving forward.
The defense sucks but without it dirk wouldn’t get the win in Miami or with the Jets. The truth is the defense is the reason for the wins and the offense is below average with above average players…. Bye bye dirk and if the players didn’t want to lose him then they should execute better
December 23rd, 2017 at 3:40 pm
Sorry but firing Mike Smith who by the way if the reason he had a job this year isn’t going to fix this. Dirk how friends and familiars not the best man for the job as he does with his players. His philosophy on how to build a winner sucks just like his offense. I don’t care what he did in Jacksonville or Atlanta because he’s got two of the best receivers in the game one of the top tight ends and the best on in the draft. No excuses for the losses. No one was using the running back position as an excuse after game 1 against Chicago another game by which the defense handed them points and great field position
December 23rd, 2017 at 3:42 pm
Hell bring back smith too! Were screwed next year anyways! Lets just waste another year on these clowns.Do you trust Licht and Koetter to fix ALL the problems and needs this team has when they created most of them? It took how many games to figure out that doug wasn’t getting it done and then to cover for resigning him they still wouldn’t bench him until the media starting asking questions. I can’t watch this crap next year if they keep these guys.
This team is way too soft too, they don’t respect Koetter or smith.
December 23rd, 2017 at 3:44 pm
Joe can’t remember the last time he didn’t see Jenna at a game.
December 23rd, 2017 at 3:46 pm
[Don’t be stupid. — Joe]
My Dad wants Frank Reich / John Defilippo of the Philadelphia eagles”
Son of Kobe Faker
December 23rd, 2017 at 3:49 pm
To me, Smith needs to go before Koetter. Smith’s defense has been shoddy for two seasons save for that winning streak last year. VHIII has been a failure so far, and we feel inclined to push our corners off each receiver. Move on from Smitty and bring in a fresh face that can take advantage of our talents.
December 23rd, 2017 at 3:53 pm
Licht must have said something to get that extension.
Wonder if he threw Dirk under the bus already like he did Lovie.
December 23rd, 2017 at 3:54 pm
I’d be willing to bet we can do better then four friggin wins next year without Koetter as coach, or meathead Licht fielding the team. This whole crew needs to be shown the door including perennial losing players like McCoy. I don’t want to remodel the house by leaving a few walls up, that’s what we did after firing Lovie. I want to scrape this out house to the ground, set a new foundation, a build a brand new house.
December 23rd, 2017 at 3:56 pm
I want both Koetter and Smith gone. Butt..would be elated to just have..DC PressBox Smitty gone as of NOW!!! I think Licht will campaign for Koetter. But part of the compromise will be Smitty has to go. And If Koetter insist of keeping His road dog? Then he can join him.
December 23rd, 2017 at 4:02 pm
Didnt Licht get the extension BEFORE the season?
“All that is a severance pay”
Son of Kobe Faker
December 23rd, 2017 at 4:05 pm
Koetter needs one more year even though we are at an all time low. He needs to finish this with Winston, who is also in his last contract year. If they both stink it up/suspension, then Bucs can clear house and “rebuild”. ugh. again. Laine is okay but she may regret her statement with 2 weeks to go if he sticks around. The media room may be extra chilly next week with a 2 min presser from coach.
December 23rd, 2017 at 4:07 pm
We are reaching that point in a bad season when we tend to get philosophical when in fact everyone is basically taking a “WAG” Wild ass guess on every possible excuse for another losing season. Truth is there is no excuse, Sh*t happens and you move on to next season. My WAG this year focuses on too many shiny new objects and the inability to coordinate all this new talent into a winning team.The team had no chance to grow into a coordinated effort. the coaches were overwelmed by the huge offensive upgrades, and no one knew how to use them constructively. IMO the current coaches need an offseason of film and research to figure this illusive puzzle out. Unfortunately that won’t happen. Fans who think they know everything about developing an NFL franchise will intervene and the Glazers will hire another two year project that will spend their first year lost and second year wandering where they will be coaching the following year. The shiny objects will be forced to learn another playbook and the cycle will continue for another ten years. Wasted talent. wasted effort, wasted money and only a few wins to show for it. You think we would have learned after the last decade
December 23rd, 2017 at 4:31 pm
******************
JOE,
I am sort of in the same boat as you … I like Koetter as a person and I think he did a fine job in his first season as coach, which counts for something.
HOWEVER, I am also of the mindset that a team should ALWAYS upgrade whenever they can, be it with players, coaches or GMs. This said, if Patrick Peterson was a free agent and said, “I want to play for the Bucs but I’m not playing with Brent Grimes” I would be of the opinion that no matter how good Grimes is, since he isn’t as good as Peterson, he should not be resigned and Peterson should be signed.
The above said, if BRUCE ARIANS, JON GRUDEN or JIM HARBAUGH tell the Bucs, “I want to be your next coach” I believe Koetter should be fired, as he simply is not on the same level as those three coaches. That’s not an knock on Koetter, it’s simply praising those three coaches.
Now … if the ONLY options the Bucs have are other coordinators such as Josh McDaniels, Matt Patricia and Todd Walsh … I may actually be in favor of bringing Koetter back as I’m not confident any of those three guys would be better, or that any of those three are even capable of being head coaches …
One current coordinator that would be a very, very tough call is JIM SCHWARTZ as not only is he an absolutely magnificent defensive coordinator, he was a head coach in the past and one known for commanding respect in the locker-room AND for almost fist-fighting Jim Harbaugh after a game! This said, Schwartz is the one coordinator I may be willing to hire as the next HC, but even with him, I’m not totally sure I’d let Koetter go.
In conclusion, if Arians, Gruden or Harbaugh wants the HC position, I’d fire Koetter in a heart-beat. If Jim Schwartz wants the job, I would strongly consider firing Koetter. If Josh McDaniels, Matt Patricia or any other mere coordinator wants the HC job … I might just stick with Koetter for at least another year.
******************
December 23rd, 2017 at 4:35 pm
Koetter not done a good job coaching since being in Tampa. I have no idea what the concern is about terminating him. Either add to the bottom line or get out the door. No entitlements.
December 23rd, 2017 at 4:36 pm
*****************
By the way, the main reason I would indeed fire Koetter to hire Gruden is because I truly do NOT believe that HC’s need to be play callers at all, so in a way, I don’t care if the game has advanced in the 10 years Gruden’s been gone (though I honestly agree with Warren Sapp that there is no way the game has passed Gruden by).
To me, a HC simply needs to be a “leader of men” and someone who commands respect and I believe Gruden can do that from Day 1 … I don’t know that any of the current group of mere coordinators that are HC candidates can do that … and I don’t think Koetter can do it on the level of Gruden.
As for Jim Harbaugh … I don’t care what negatives exist with him, he is a true leader of men that commands respect the second he walks into a locker-room and his players love him and will nearly kill themselves playing for him … that’s my kind of coach.
As for Bruce Arians … I honestly consider him to be perhaps the 2nd best coach in the entire NFL next to Bellichick, as well as an offensive genius. The guy is also a straight-shooter who is a leader of men and commands respect. My only concern with him is his health … and that’s a big issue.
*****************
December 23rd, 2017 at 4:38 pm
Swartz stacked def is getting blown out last 2 games…however i think they were tired and will be more focused vs raiders
We need an offensive minded HC or off coord to develop jameis winston…
That is and the only thing that truely matters
December 23rd, 2017 at 4:39 pm
LMAO off at Kalind. Just pick up 11 new defensive players in the off season and we are good to go. Jesus are fans must all just play Madden all day and have no freaking clue how the NFL actually works. SMH!
December 23rd, 2017 at 4:41 pm
Jenna Laine is a talented good journalist. She reports the news not make the news with unfounded speculation.
December 23rd, 2017 at 4:53 pm
When you hear they had soft training camp and that they are young and talented, then you need to seriously question Dirk’s judgment. I also like the guy but let’s face it. This entire team has been soft from the get go. Soft defense with poor tackling and no pressure. Soft offense with poor decision making and mental errors. All a reflection of coaching.
If I’m the Glazers then I am asking Dirk “Did you really do everything you could to put a winner on the field?”. If that is the question then I don’t think Dirk can honestly say yes and that’s a bad place to be.
December 23rd, 2017 at 4:56 pm
Joe if you want a Koetter back, more power to you. Koetter has regressed severely as a head coach. I think it’s a dead end street. But if you fire him you better have a big name ready to go. I’d like to see Gruden back, who always have the Bucs a chance to win. With Koetter here, all too often, you just know the Bucs are going to lose. The Saints can play only backups and the Bucs are still going to lose. Against Carolina though I’d give them a solid 12% chance to win, and that’s solely because of Jameis. I think Chucky can transform Jameis into an elite QB. I also love Shelton Quarles but their free agent acquisitions have been junk. Jason Licht needs to address this quickly.
December 23rd, 2017 at 5:00 pm
And to bad that 3-4 defense never came to fruition. Their 4-3 has been destroyed by mediocre offenses.
December 23rd, 2017 at 5:06 pm
The 2017 bucs season was a failure at the start because Jason Licht could not admit his 2016 failure…..
Want to guess?
December 23rd, 2017 at 5:14 pm
As much as I would like to see Gruden on the sideline next year I still think Dirk should get at least one more year to prove himself, this TEAM is a mess. Licht had better get some help on defense quick OR he should be the one on the way out the door. This team will NEVER finish better than 9-7 or 10-6 until there are changes on the defensive side of the ball. If Jason thinks Jameis and the offense can win more than that without a defense he shouldn’t be a GM.
When Tampa won the Superbowl it was the 10th time a Top 3 defense faced a Top 3 offense and ALL 10 times the defense won the game. Not sure what has happened since then but we ALL know defense wins Championships, look how good the Jags are doing. Not sure if we need a new DC because we lack SO much talent on that side of the ball. Licht had better use EVERY pick in the Draft this year on defense or I will be hammering for the Glazers to fire him EVERY week next year. How can he neglect that side of the ball every season when defense is SO important to winning games? I think Jason should be the FIRST to go as it stands. He does NOT know how to evaluate talent if you ask me and that is the MAIN reason the Bucs suck so bad right now. Coaching only has a little to do with it when you don’t have much to work with. I thought the Bucs would make the Playoffs this year but NOW don’t expect them to get there next year either. I didn’t realize how little talent we have. Heads should roll if we don’t make it next year though, starting with Licht. You can tell this team is close though. Go BUCS!
December 23rd, 2017 at 5:22 pm
We would still be in the playoffs with the defense we have…
Its the offense why we are not in the playoffs because we have the talent to out score our opponents
The 2017 season was a failure from the start because jason lichts failure to admit his 2016 failure….
JR SWEENEY
December 23rd, 2017 at 5:25 pm
People forget how bad the Bucs were before Licht got here. Basically a total gut job. New QB needed which then required a line to protect said QB and weapons to help.
Only so many draft picks to accomplish the rebuild and clearly the defense has been neglected. I would imagine a heavy focus on the dline in this off season or Jason should pursue work elsewhere.
December 23rd, 2017 at 5:27 pm
Fire Smith, Bring in A 3-4 defensive coach
Look to Baltimore and Pittsburgh
Trade McCoy to a contender, he deserves to escape this continous Rebuilt trash heap.
Use Spence as a rush Linebacker, Ala Von Miller.
Starting Lbers- David, Alexander, Spence, Beckwith.
Those guys can rush the QB, better than our DEs( so could my Grandmother).
Draft a great CB, sign a Vet CB. Dump VH3
Now we can have a great defense- like our First great defense.
John McKays 3-4 defense
Koetter and Licht return. Although they both deserve to be fired for not getting this team a DE
December 23rd, 2017 at 5:30 pm
I’m sick of people calling for others to lose their livelihood. With all due respect to Jenna, ESPN is constantly paying people off and Id never wish that on her.
Koetter is not inept. He makes mistakes. So does Belichick. His QB has been hurt all year, Licht hasn’t given him a decent line on either side of the ball, and DJax is a drama queen demanding the ball.
If our defense could stop the run, like last year, Bucs beat the Falcons on MNF. If our kicker does his job, Bucs beat Brady on TNF. If our defense stops AP and Fitzgerald, Bucs get a road win in Az.
It’s a game of inches, and constantly turning coaches over only buries this team further. Glazers have wasted GMC and David’s careers, and we act like Gruden is somehow gonna fix that.
So Jenna, good riddance. Hope no one asks you to get fired one day, considering ESPN is the Browns of broadcast sports
December 23rd, 2017 at 5:31 pm
JR SWEENEY should have been cut end of last year and our 2016 offensive line should have been the same with marpet at guard and hawley at center and
JR SWEENEY OFF THE TEAM…jason light couldnt admit his 2016 mistake
Gump and klueless thought putting a bad back nobody sweeney as guard and put marpet as center was a masterpiece
Jameis for the 6 first games was playing shortstop and fielding grounders from marpet
You want to start a play, season with a mindfuked confused young marpet without confidence at a important position
Our offensive line was a mess and trickled down to every facet of our team
Gump could not admit his mistaked
December 23rd, 2017 at 5:31 pm
If I’m the Glazers, I do what most good CEO/Owners, I ask Licht & Koetter what their recommendations are for the team next year.
If Koetter is smart and want’s to save his job, he will suggest delegating the playcalling….in addition request help with the Oline and put Marpet back at guard.
Koetter & Licht should suggest an overhaul of the defense with a new DC
If Koetter does that, he likely can stay.
I hope he stays but with some significant changes.
The problem is that decision may have already have been made.
December 23rd, 2017 at 6:08 pm
New coach, new system, 2-3 more years of losing badly guaranteed. Keep the coach, get better lines, start winning next year and build with our young players. Simple as that.
December 23rd, 2017 at 6:12 pm
“Where was the buc sheep when i got fired after 2 years”
Lovie Smith
December 23rd, 2017 at 6:19 pm
hey Joe , bringing up a guy who only once had a top 10 offense but with no #1 pick at QB
is sloppy and one sided reporting
the fact that an offense only in the top 10 once BUT has 2 division titles, 3 playoff appearances
Makes you look IGNORANT….with an agenda against THE ONLY SUPERBOWL WINNING COACH
December 23rd, 2017 at 6:20 pm
DROP THE MIC LOL
December 23rd, 2017 at 6:21 pm
all that is better than 3 years scoring under 20 points….which we needed sunday
LESS IRRELEVANT STATS can be made to look however you want like
lipstick on a pig
December 23rd, 2017 at 6:25 pm
and joe is still giving koetter 100% credit for this 9-7 season when that year
the D bailed us out by its #1 on 3rd down and holding 8 teams under 20 and multiple were single digits
SINGLE …….8 GAMES!!!!!!
GEEZ your really insulting the reasoning of your readers lol or maybe I’m just TOO smart for it
December 23rd, 2017 at 6:42 pm
Some of you guys make me laugh. You do know why Koetter can’t simply cut Smith and get another top notch D Coordinator, don’t you? Because no one in their right mind would take the job with the HC and possibly GM being shown the door the next year. That is absolutely no job security, regardless of how hard you try or well you have done. Smith and Koetter are tied together at this point….one goes, you have to send the other one packing as well.
December 23rd, 2017 at 6:45 pm
Son of Kobe…. Lovie has much bigger problems…many on his team have transferred out this year…about five or six of them. And their early signing ranking is last in the Big 10. And if he has another season like last one, he may have to go to division two or three if he wants to be a HC again.
December 23rd, 2017 at 6:54 pm
Gruden passed on Rogers any many others Gruden gets a hell no from me. Koetter and Licht needs to stay. Period. End of story.
Tampa baybucs fan says complete overhaul on defense. Yes. Keep everyone but msmith and his subordinates. Get an oc to call plays and Koetter overlook the team we will be ok.
December 23rd, 2017 at 6:56 pm
Sign a top DE (DeMarcus Lawrence or Ziggy or Sheldon Richadson) and a top CB (Trumaine Johnson or Malcolm Butler) and draft a DE (Bradley Chubb), SS (Ronnie Harrison), CB (Holton Hill), RB (Royce Freeman) and a developmental DT, OT, OG and C with out 5th, two 6ths and 7th round picks and our defense could be a quality D next year, especially if we switch to a 3-4:
DE: Lawrence – Swaggy
DT: GMC – McDonald
DE: Chubb – Gholston
OLB: LaVonte
MLB: Beckwith
MLB: Kwon
OLB: Spence
CB: Johnson – Hargreaves
CB: Grimes – McClain
FS: Evans – Tandy
SS: Harrison – Conte
On paper that’s a loaded defense.
December 23rd, 2017 at 7:04 pm
After my whole life being a bucs fan . I find myself saying I’ll know at the end of the season wether or not I’m still a bucs fan or a new Jacksonville Jaguars fan. If the gruden thing is just talk , I’m going to have to root for the only winning team in Florida. Maybe we should hire chucky in the same role as Tom over in Jax and let koetter be a puppet coach. Seems to work in Jacksonville
December 23rd, 2017 at 7:16 pm
Its all about decision making lets review. Drafting a TE as your 1 pick was not a team need good player just taking plays away from brate bad decision / not drafting a DE in the first round the was a bad decision / pass rush makes corners better than they are / forcing the ball to Jackson play after play after play threw the whole offence off bad decision /not drafting a running back high in the draft another bad decision / almost every key decision that has been made has been wrong and how can you trust the ones in power making these mistakes . NOT LETTING OUR COACH AND GM GO WOULD BE ANOTHER BAD DECISION
December 23rd, 2017 at 7:29 pm
Tbbf-
That’s a very reasoned analysis. What are you doing on JBF lol?? Joking aside I agree with you. Koetter needs to just coach. Bring in a real OC to call plays (not Monken). And build up the the lines!
Let’s not forget people:
• Hard knocks curse
• hurricane Irma
• no bye week
• Jameis injured at least half the season (but still playing)
• both DEs injured before the season even began.
Lastly, it was not Koetter, or Licht, or Jameis who made Barber fumble in the red zone. Or made OJ fumble the week before. Or made our kicker miss 3 FGs against New England. Or made Hump fumble the final Drive against the Bills.
Lots of issues, and maybe at the end of he day it all does fall on the HC, but I can’t see them replacing him with someone better after we’ve had a revolving 2 year door for our HCs for the last decade.
Also please face the facts folks, Gruden ain’t coming back.
December 23rd, 2017 at 7:45 pm
Yeah, Joe has an agenda against the greatest coach in Bucs history. smh
Only agenda Joe has is wins. Nothing in Chucky’s history suggests he can develop quarterbacks (don’t think that may be an issue?). And, yes, not having coached since 2008 is important to Joe.
If the Glazers want to go to the wayback machine for a coach, how about a guy who also last coached in 2008 but also has a sterling resume in developing quarterbacks. A guy like Mike Holmgren.
December 23rd, 2017 at 7:47 pm
Koetter is never going to be a Bill Bellichick granted. The question is, is there somebody out there who is a proven elite coach AND is gettable for the Bucs? If not, you stick with Koetter another season until such a commodity becomes available. Mike Smith, however, is a problem. You have to get a lot more out of a defense which has some definite talent. Speaking of talent, the OL & DL are the biggest problem areas, and that needs to be addressed immediately.
If you do those last two things (fix both lines & replace Mike Smith), even with Koetter’s mediocre coaching, this team can make the playoffs next year (with maybe a couple breaks that they never got in 2017)…. then you build off of that, however, what you don’t do is tear this team down again & start with yet another new coach.
December 23rd, 2017 at 7:59 pm
Unbelievable,
The above is a solid post … however, why do you say it’s a “fact” that Gruden isn’t coming back? From everything I’ve been hearing and reading there is more smoke than ever before and the job is his if he wants it … and he very may well might want it.
Regardless, I agree with you that a real OC is needed and I do feel that if the team goes all out to sign and draft defensive players, the team could be infinitely better next year … even with Koetter and Smith staying.
December 23rd, 2017 at 8:06 pm
In other news, Rashaad Penny just finished up his season … 2,248 rushing yards on just 289 carries for a 7.8 yards per carry average … and 23 TDs … and word is the kid might slip to the 4th round of the NFL draft.
I’m thinking, unless Saquon Barkely is on the board when we pick in the first round, we’ll go DE, CB and SS in the first 3 rounds … and draft a RB in the 4th … and this kid might be a steal!
December 23rd, 2017 at 8:11 pm
Let me ask the following question. If developing a qb is the most important thing what NFL qb has Dirk ever developed?
David Gerrard?
Blaine Galbert?
Matt Ryan was already Matt Ryan when Dirk took him over and some say he almost ruined him and Dirk was let go.
So this record makes him a QB guru?????
December 23rd, 2017 at 8:14 pm
@Nut- I just don’t see it happening.
We hear this chat and smell this smoke every 2 years in Tampa.
The guy just got put into the Ring of Honor.
How are you going to hire a guy, who you will eventually have to fire, who is already in the ring of honor?
Plus if you remember, our drafting was atrocious his last several years here. He’s not going to come back to Tampa with less power than he previously had,
December 23rd, 2017 at 8:14 pm
*hear this chatter
December 23rd, 2017 at 8:39 pm
Is there someone out there better than dirk koetter lol that’s a joke right? Is there someone out there better than a first time head coach that has game management skills of dirk koetter a guy scoring fewer points than last year when he didn’t have all the weapons he has?
Offensive and defensive play caller in New England come to mind I’d even take Schwartz as head coach, hell every coach that gets fired on black Monday is better than dirk.
December 23rd, 2017 at 8:42 pm
Let’s look a little closer at Dirks recorde, focusing on the passing game.
Here is the passing rankings of his teams he has been offensive coordinator of at Jacksonville, Atlanta and here
07 15th
08 16th
09 19th
10 27th
11 32nd
12 (Matt Ryan) 6th
13 (Matt Ryan) 7th
14 25th
15 17th
This is the record of a passing game guru? The only two top ten seasons were with ready made Matt Ryan with Jones and company, and even then he got run out after they went 4-12.
The narrative does not fit the facts.
December 23rd, 2017 at 8:54 pm
jOE IS SMITTEN WITH dIRT WOW U CAN KNEES NOW
December 23rd, 2017 at 9:02 pm
My issue with this coaching staff is the issues we had last year and this year are the same. Red zone offense rushing the passer and covering. None of it got corrected. What makes you think it will in another year?
Joe I think it’s easy to say Gruden hasn’t coached since 2008. He hasn’t been out of football. Every week since he’s been on Monday Night Football he goes interviews coaches, studies tape of the whole league and watches practices. I read article last year about his football”office” he keeps in Tampa and how he is constantly adding plays to his playbook. I think he would be a better coach now. I didn’t mind Gruden the coach it was Gruden the GM that got him fired. Hopefully he has learned from his mistakes.
December 23rd, 2017 at 9:23 pm
Firing a HC is good “news” for sports channels. I can’t argue with her logic, but national media doesn’t understand the Bucs HC problems or has a full grasp on our past.
December 23rd, 2017 at 9:35 pm
If the Bucs do fire Dirk, they will want to make an impact hire.
They need to sell tickets and keep folks in the seats so they will need something exciting to sell. There is absolutely nothing exciting about the Bucs right now at all and they have nothing to sell. They will have to manufacture some excitement and hype, maybe through a big name coach or a big trade or free agent signing
December 23rd, 2017 at 9:43 pm
“Nothing in Chucky’s history suggests he can develop quarterbacks” -Joe
Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, what? Don’t get me wrong. I’m certainly not in the Scott Reynolds/ Kobe Faker camp of “Gruden or Bust,” but to what you said there is just flat out untrue.
The guy turned a career back-up into a league MVP. Don’t get much better than that.
December 23rd, 2017 at 9:55 pm
@JabooBuc … “People forget how bad the Bucs were before Licht got here. Seriously? You REALLY want to play that card? Licht got here in 2014 … Bucs went 2-14 (last place in NFC South). Improved dramatically in 2015 … All the way to 6-10 (again, last place). Improved more in 2016 … to 9-7 thanks to the DEFENSE that Licht did almost nothing to improve BTW (improved to next to 2nd in division). Now in 2017 … regressed big time to most likely 4-12 (back to last place again).
From 2009 – 2017: Different GMs, same results. Want to know why we’ve won NO games this year in the NFC South Joe? It’s really quite simple: the other 3 T-E-A-M-S are significantly better than we are, on offense and defense.
People keep screaming for Smitty’s head, but I don’t care who they had as a DC this year … this defense provided this coaching staff nothing to work with. Scheme all you want, but there was no talent on the DLine, and precious little in the secondary. In fact, Smitty worked miracles last year with a defense that wasn’t much better manned than this year. And yes, I’d say unequivocally that we won at least 4 games last year strictly thanks to that defense. Everyone’s letting Licht off the hook for his drafting prowess (?) when in reality he’s blown the drafts by not addressing the greatest T-E-A-M needs at the proper points. Last year we desperately needed DLine help … he drafted Stevie T in the 7th Round. Last year we desperately needed RB help … he drafted McMuffin or whatever his name was in the 5th Round. Yup, keep praising his drafting prowess, as we keep firing coaches … instead of the Architect of this Train Wreck.
December 23rd, 2017 at 9:59 pm
A veteran. And Chucky’s been living off of that since. That’s like saying Mike Zimmer developed Case Keenum. Feel free to name any young quarterback Chucky developed.
Look, Joe’s not anti-Chucky. But what exactly has happened in the past three months to turn Chucky into Bill Walsh much less Dennis Green?
December 23rd, 2017 at 10:23 pm
Ok and what young QB has Dirk developed?
December 23rd, 2017 at 10:40 pm
Joe
I neither love nor hate Gruden.
That being said, I don’t fault him for not developing a young QB here or in Oakland. In both instances he was with a team full of veterens who were in “win now” mode and making the playoffs most years. It made no sense to bring in a young guy or rookie who would learn on the job and have his growing pains. Gruden wanted veteren QB’s who were NFL battle ready and could understand his offense.
The one time here that Gruden had a young QB to developer was when Rich McKay dumped and forced Chris Simms on him, a QB that Gruden knew did not have the play style or skill set to fit his offense. McKay had not consulted Gruden about Simms and didn’t tell him he was drafting Sim. Gruden was furious and this was one of the chain of events that lead to McKay’ s departure from the Bucs.
Most teams that draft and developed a young QB are either young teams that are rebuilding or bad teams that don’t contend. Gruden was not in that situation
December 23rd, 2017 at 10:54 pm
“A veteran. And Chucky’s been living off of that since.”
Funny because I thought he made a pretty good living off of winning this franchise a Super bowl, and being 3 time division champ in the NFC south.
Like I said, I’m not on the Chucky or bust bandwagon. But you ask me is he better than Koetter? And I would say yes without a doubt.
What QB has Dirk Koetter developed into a league MVP? And don’t dare say Matt Ryan, because Ryan had success before Koetter got there, and had his best years under Kyle Shanahan.
Grudens track record as both a Coordinator and a Head coach is BY FAR superior to Dirk Koetters. And that’s just a fact.
December 23rd, 2017 at 11:00 pm
There are issues all over the place – bad luck, bad coaching, bad play, bad development – the Bucs I think give the current staff another year before they get cleared out. The Bucs need to move on from some players though to make room to go get the players they need.
December 23rd, 2017 at 11:05 pm
Oh and the last time I checked, Jameis is a 3 year veteran with far more success in the league than Rich Gannon ever had before Gruden developed him into a Superbowl Caliber signal caller.
December 23rd, 2017 at 11:06 pm
Dirk doesn’t need to go anywhere. Stop with the two years and fire. Get him a running back. The running game was abysmal! You need a running game to build anything off of. Like I said before. The Bucs need to do whatever they have to to get Saquon Barkley in next years draft. Edge rushing help would be great to find somewhere next year.
December 23rd, 2017 at 11:14 pm
Blake:
Again, Joe worships Chucky for what he did for this franchise and will argue all night long he’s better than Father Dungy. But tap the brakes if you think he’s got some Midas touch with quarterbacks. Good for Chucky he turned around Gannon. Sure, he did fine with Brad Johnson. There is also more than a few quarterbacks that he turned into roadkill along the way from his days in Philly as offensive coordinator to his end [for now] with the Bucs.
December 23rd, 2017 at 11:16 pm
Jameis?
Matty Ice?
David Garrard (DUCKS!) 🙂
December 23rd, 2017 at 11:18 pm
Excuse me Joe, What I said was, “What QB has Dirk Koetter developed into a league MVP?”
December 23rd, 2017 at 11:20 pm
Nevermind, didn’t realize you were quoting someone else. Feel free to delete that.
December 23rd, 2017 at 11:22 pm
Well, if the Glazers are only using that as a criteria for hiring a coach, going to guess if they run Koetter, the coaching search is going to be a very protracted process unless Chucky comes out of the booth or unless the Glazers can land Mike Holmgren — which would be a better hire than Chucky if you ask Joe.
Hey, isn’t George Seifert alive? He had an MVP quarterback too! 🙂
December 23rd, 2017 at 11:25 pm
Never made any such claim Joe, if you recall, my main point of contention was directed toward the comment you made stating that nothing in Jon Grudens history suggests he can develop QB’s.
December 23rd, 2017 at 11:26 pm
And Joe stands by that. Gannon was a veteran (as was Brad Johnson).
December 23rd, 2017 at 11:31 pm
Don’t forget Dirk molded Blaine Gabbert to historic greatness also.
Let’s latch ourselves right on that!
December 23rd, 2017 at 11:39 pm
Interesting how there is no follow up stories by the Joe’s on the weekly Koetter confidence poll where 70 percent of voters have little to no confidence. Facing 4-12 and 0-6 in the division is a tough pill to swallow. But I guess since the millionaires fought hard, coaching gets a pass.
December 23rd, 2017 at 11:40 pm
Rich Gannons numbers in the 11 years before getting to Oakland:
11,158 yards 66 Touchdowns 54 Interceptions
Rich Gannons numbers in 4 years after being developed by Jon Gruden:
15,787 yards 105 Touchdowns 44 interceptions
You know who else was a veteran Quarterback? Steve Deberg. Nobody turned him into an MVP.
Gruden developed Gannon. Fact.
December 23rd, 2017 at 11:42 pm
@Eric
Exactly. What talented 1st round QB prospect did Jon Gruden turn into a headcase Joe? I can’t think of one off the top of my head.
December 24th, 2017 at 12:33 am
You go Blake!!!! Those Gannon stats are impressive!!
Gruden or Bust!! I’ll go to the games if we get Gruden..
December 24th, 2017 at 12:39 am
joe just because gruden had no history of developing a young qb doesn’t mean he had one and failed to do it
unless I’m wrong wasn’t he with farve as a qb coach when he came sorry as hell from Atlanta???
he sure developed chicken spit simms enough to get us to the playoffs…..
IF HE NEVER THREW THAT INT ON THAT PLAY IN THE 4TH AGAINST THE REDSKINS WHO KNOWS…UP TO THAT POINT HE PLAYED VERY WELL
how developed is jameis been making worse plays w/o the playoffs UNDER KOETTER
funny how matt ryan had his best year last year and the year before w/o koetter…..hmmmmm lol
ohhh but that’s grudens fault….or losing in the first round to the SUPERBOWL GIANTS
LOL…..RIIIIIIIGGHHHHT
December 24th, 2017 at 12:40 am
drop the mic …..AGAIN LOL
December 24th, 2017 at 12:42 am
ALL OF YOU GRUDEN HATERS HAVE SELECTIVE AMNESIA
no man is perfect but dam…..like Rodney Dangerfield…..NO RESPECT…..
December 24th, 2017 at 12:48 am
BTW….Simms went where after ….I don’t even remember……lol
did he make the playoffs with that team …..or win the division……
that would be NO
Gruden/ Brooks (GM) and bring back the creamsickles/ new pirate glazers
#lavontesaidit #fullfixglazers
December 24th, 2017 at 12:48 am
You go Nate! “chicken spit Simms”..lol..
December 24th, 2017 at 9:54 am
Let me take you there JOE- He didn’t take us to a 9-7 season. it was the defense and Mike Smith’s contract proves it.
December 24th, 2017 at 10:27 am
No. More. Chucky. Egomaniac. Gruden!!
Give Koetter one more year.
Dump Smith.
Go Bucs!! This will be a good game cos we’re the walking wounded (SOP) on defense!!