Double Standard
December 11th, 2017
Roster-builder.
There seems to be one consistent complaint from Bucs fans this year: the Bucs are have a talented roster that is grossly underperforming.
We read this virtually daily. Yet many of those same folks who are galled by how the Bucs are not utilizing this talent also want to run Bucs AC/DC-loving general manager Jason Licht.
You can’t have it both ways.
If one believes the Bucs have a talent-laden roster, then why get rid of the person responsible for building that roster? It seems there are only four starters — Gerald McCoy, Lavonte David, Doug Martin and Demar Dotson — who preceded Licht’s tenure. The rest were signed/drafted by Licht.
No, Licht does not yet have a contract for 2018 (yet). However, if Team Glazer was going to make a general manager change, the top two GM candidates likely are already spoken for.
Former Chiefs general manager John Dorsey signed with the Browns last week and former Stinking Panthers general manager Dave Gettleman appears to be the front runner for the opening in New York.
And that is good news for Licht.
December 11th, 2017 at 9:03 am
I say go with the status quo for one more year…..we all know the weakness and holes in the roster talent….despite that the team played hard yesterday….one more year ….
December 11th, 2017 at 9:09 am
Licht ain’t the problem.
December 11th, 2017 at 9:13 am
There are pockets of talent on this team as in the WR corps and LB but that is where it ends, and jason licht did not see nor address any of the bucs deficiencies in recent years, you can look at bucs, jags, bills and rams as teams in same years and situation as the bucs the GMs of those teams had a plan or process and built teams, the bucs GM has no vision to build this team to succeed and should be sent packing
December 11th, 2017 at 9:16 am
easy explanation ….plain logic really isn’t that hard…but I know this is sales
licht hits on top picks because we sucked with high picks…..who misses completely on 1st and 2nd rounders….excluding agyauo
BUT as it relates to free agent decisions and mid picks …….TEEEERRRIBLE
December 11th, 2017 at 9:18 am
#JasonLichtBalls #DirkDiggler #WeaponsForFlinstone #DrugMartin #KwontonSoup #ShallWeGoOn
December 11th, 2017 at 9:21 am
HE GETS another year cause of last year draft
4 studs
PLUs gruden wants him
December 11th, 2017 at 9:22 am
Keep Licht, can ALL of the coaches and draft for NEED next year and not best athlete on the board
December 11th, 2017 at 9:24 am
As a fan, this is as close as I’m going to get to giving the Glazers an elevator speech. I’m all in for keeping Koetter and Licht: how has changing every two years helped? Let’s try something something completely different – consistency and faith in a system.
Our so-called “talent” is only on the offensive side of the ball and doesn’t include the RB and all the O-line positions. Clearly, the d-line is in need of a massive overhaul. Getting some pass rushers through FA and the draft will bring a better season next year, but only if we stay the course!
December 11th, 2017 at 9:24 am
Licht can stay but Koetter has to go!!!
Can’t believe I just said that but him starting Drug Martin yesterday did it for me.
December 11th, 2017 at 9:25 am
This is true Joe. Theoretically, this offense should be light-years ahead of where it is in terms of talent. Our conversations would still be about the defense not stopping anybody, but we should be hanging 30+ points on teams on a regular basis. Of course, the latter part of that statement is based on my infinite knowledge from playing Madden!!!
It’s truly frustrating to watch Jameis miss open WRs on a per-game basis. There is ZERO chemistry with all but one player, Cam Brate, and we are in week 14.
Play-calling has been atrocious, but one has to wonder if it’s not because of the QB. You can’t keep making excuses for the guy.
As far as Licht goes, this team was void of talent to begin with. He’s hit some and he’s missed some. You can argue both sides of this.
December 11th, 2017 at 9:27 am
Licht needs better support internally and a better sounding board to help with FA.
The additions in FA killed the team blue collar worker like mentality that helped turn the tide. Bringing in Baker and Ward added entitled vets that didn’t mix with a young roster.
We need a seasoned personnel guy to work with a Licht type to help change the culture.
December 11th, 2017 at 9:34 am
Pablo says how is Aguayo, Hargreaves, Spence, ASJ, McNichols, Sims, ect… working out? Aguayo pick set the franchise backward.
December 11th, 2017 at 9:36 am
No doubt has made some very good draft picks, and some busts. But all too
often the free agents don’t measure up to expectations or repetitive injuries keep them off the field. Licht has to do much better in free agency.I think he should give up this
area of responsibility and focus entirely on the draft.
The ultimate measure of Licht’s success will be whether Jameis stops creating turnovers that hurt the team. This is Licht’s pick to lead the team,so will his evaluation be accurate or did he fall in love with Jameis’s intangibles and ignore the history of turnovers and slow starts. It will be someones job to decide that in the next year. Will it be the Glazers,Licht or another GM ?
December 11th, 2017 at 9:36 am
@Joe
there is a difference between a talented roster and talent on a roster. On the D. there are a few young players that get a pass because of the coaching. You have a stud CB that is 34 and may not be here next year. You have one of the best LB corps in football. After that, the D can be totally dismantled.
On O, you have a QB that I would not rank in the top 32. You have an O line that has holes. Great tight ends and receivers. So you need to ask yourself, what was available when we drafted and how would they have better fit our needs. Analyze that and then you can determine if we have a good GM and just so you do not forget, we have 2 frontline offensive players that are free agents.
December 11th, 2017 at 9:37 am
There is no double standard because the “this team has too much talent” side of it is dead. This team has enough talent to be a 4-9 team.
On paper yes the team has talent. Being talented on paper stopped mattering after the 1st game.
You dont get anything for winning the offseason.
December 11th, 2017 at 9:41 am
I agree with Dusthty!
Plus Licht is not going to sign a one year extension…so the Glazewrs are going to have to pony up with the extension…problem is, they will be stuck with Licht.
Draft choices have been OK in recent years, but blew two #2’s and Simms at #3 is a WASTE.
His FA signings and blown $ on FA that do not produce outweigh his draft successes. He has to do the complete job. Dominick did better(?) I hated Dominick.
Martin=Wasted big$ and opportunity to draft a decent RB in higher rounds of the draft.
Sweezy=paid a guy to sit on the bench last year
Fatty Baker=big mouth under performer
TJ Ward=Under performer
Evan Smith = average at best
Vincent Jackson=hurt WR that was cooked
Micheal Johnson=nough said
Collins = nough said
That is just some of the wasted FA $ that did nothing but steal Glazer $$$$
Time for him to move on!
December 11th, 2017 at 9:41 am
We’ve had a dismal pass rush since Licht has been drafting, and signing F.A.’s. What has he done to improve our most glaring weakness? Nothing. Instead of fixing the pass rush he’s moves up in the second round for a kicker? He sold you fools on Spence, and Smith coming back from injury, and becoming double digit sackers. He sold you on Smith being the best L.T. in the game, Sweezy being a pro bowl guard, and Marpet being the next Alex Mack. Ya’ll still buying what this meatheads selling? Give him more time, he’ll make things worse. This guy doesn’t have it.
December 11th, 2017 at 9:42 am
If Licht was under contract next season I would think he should stay. But he isnt. And I dont know if there is a strong enough argument he can make to the Glazers to get an extension. Especially if all the coaches are out.
December 11th, 2017 at 9:42 am
“You dont get anything for winning the offseason.”
Which is unfortunate because it is ALL that Buc fans have!
December 11th, 2017 at 9:45 am
I agree with this article, you can’t have it both ways. I personally think Licht has done a decent job in the draft but a little conservative in free agency. In thinking back to a few big named free agents that have hit the market over the past couple of years he was interested in several of them but just didn’t value their worth at what they were asking. I’d like to see Licht get extended but if the Glazers are seriously looking at Gruden he’d probably want full control out or to bring in another one of his boys like he did with Bruce Allen.
December 11th, 2017 at 9:46 am
Where is the development. Guys look so promising their rookie year and not any better in year 2 and 3. That’s coaching.
December 11th, 2017 at 9:47 am
JL is the most successful GM the bucs has ever had for good players drafted or picked up in a few short years outside of Rich McKay 10 year tenure.
Most bucs fans are too dumb enough to realize this fact
December 11th, 2017 at 9:49 am
Jason has some bright spots and seems solid. The kicker was a terrible move but I don’t understand going into the season with no proven pass rusher when thats been a huge problem and going into the season thinking sweezy off injury would be good and going into the season with the rb situation the way it was. Some of those calls make no sence
December 11th, 2017 at 9:54 am
Four years is long enough to turn a team around and as it stands right now the Bucs under Jason Licht have a worse winning percentage than under Mark Dominick.
Besides that, if coaching is the issue then who hired the coaches?
The Buccaneers need to hire the guy at EA Sports who figures out all the team ratings in their Madden video games. They also need to hire a guy from Vegas who figures out the over/under for win total. Despite all the changes the Bucs made the roster was only rated an 80 by EA Sports. Vegas set the over/under at 8 and as usual, Vegas had the number right.
Sorry to tell you Joe but you lost your bet.
December 11th, 2017 at 10:01 am
Every team in the NFL has a talented roster full of good players. You just have to know how best to utilize them and they have to play disciplined
December 11th, 2017 at 10:03 am
I don´t think we have a such talented team, we are really good in WR and LB, we dont have a running game by any means, a QB that plays good football sometimes, but he turns the ball over…..But the worst thing is he leaks internal things to the press, that is cancer men!!!!! Keep Koetter, keep Light and fill the holes via draft and FA……Stop with the Gruden thing….is getting ridiculous
December 11th, 2017 at 10:06 am
Licht has done well in the drafts but poorly in FA for the exception of Grimes.
Imagine, when Doug Martin is gone…..we only have GMC & LVD starting from all of the Dominick years…..an unmitigated disaster.
I don’t like churning coaches so I’m for another year of Koetter if some changes are made……need a DC & OC.
December 11th, 2017 at 10:11 am
Gruden+Licht= Same Agent.
Gruden comes back, Licht stays. His free agent signing have been terrible but thats where gruden comes in. They offset each other, Licht is great at the draft, gruden is great with free agents. Especially since Gruden has been studying players since he has been with ESPN. What we need to focus on is who will be Gruden’s DC?
December 11th, 2017 at 10:20 am
There are plenty of good players on the Bucs roster to be well above 4-9.
The coaching has been a train wreck. We see the same sad gameplans every week.
I was very wrong about Mike Smith. I actually thought he’d be a solid coach and signing him to stay was the best off-season move by the organization. He has been embarrassingly bad.
Player body language tells me they have little faith in the coaches, including Winston. Dude’s sideline temper tantrum after yet another bad throw showed he has no discipline, a coaching issue. If you believe in your coaches, you don’t throw all those bad balls, and you keep your cool on the sideline.
December 11th, 2017 at 10:22 am
@TBBF: what credible OC and DC would come work for a HC who is on the shortest leash for tenure in the NFL?
December 11th, 2017 at 10:23 am
I agree they have talented players at some positions, which the GM gets credit.
However, a chain is only as strong as its weakest link, and he has left us vulnerable in key areas, such as no pass rush at all.
So guys like Stafford eat our lunch and we get beat. Like a broken record.
That is where his deficiencies lie, and would be his downfall if he’s not renewed.
December 11th, 2017 at 10:25 am
Licht has been pretty successful through the draft because he tends to draft BPA, as opposed to drafting at a position of need. I like drafting best player available in theory, but not when you pretty much ignore the most important aspects of a team – both lines. I’m not sure how capable he is of filling needs, which worries me. That being said, I would give him more time, but it better be done next year. I can’t take another rebuild.
December 11th, 2017 at 10:30 am
There is no double standard. It’s a fallacy to believe this roster is stocked with talent. Licht has done a horrible job especially with the Oline and Dline and Kwon has regressed noticeably. Licht has received tons of credit for obvious picks like OJ and Godwin but his misses have far outweighed his hits. Bucs have to re-do both lines and DBs as well as RBs. The GM has been no better than Dominik but with lots more leeway and $$$ to throw away. He picked the wrong QB and decided to build a team around an immature, inaccurate, bad decision making QB. The GM should be the first csualy of this putrid season!
December 11th, 2017 at 10:38 am
The team severely lacks talent where it counts the most…..in the trenches. You must establish an identity through your o-line and/or d-line. I would argue o-line is top priority when trying to evaluate/develop a young QB….who happens to already have a knack for being inconsistent. The hype around the grand slam is nonsense.
D. Penn > D. Smith…..should have kept the old veteran to groom Smith and make him EARN a starting role.
A. Marpet > J. Sweezy…forced Sweezy on the field to try to show the Glaziers he wasn’t another waste of their cash….has totally backfired.
Its not that Licht cant find talent….he lacks the ability to build the roster effectively.
I believe the next person that comes in willmight see value in Licht but the coach will have full roster control and final say. No coach would allow the GM to trade into the 2nd round for a kicker. That’s simply moronic. Lets also not forget, we had a solid kicker, Licht got rid of him and started the merry go round postion for the next 3 yrs.
December 11th, 2017 at 10:43 am
Bu this
You can’t be serious… Gruden is horrible at personnel, be it draft or FA. If you have your way we will have every 39 yr old washed up player on Grudens roster. That and players only buy in to his BS for a little while
Derrick Brooks for GM. Tony Dungy for president of football ops. Let them hire the next coach.
December 11th, 2017 at 10:54 am
Are you sure it was that bad? As of today there are 16 players from the Dominick era that are on NFL rosters some including the Bucs (you forgot Gholston). I don’t think that’s too bad being four years removed from the last time he was GM. I wonder how that will compare to Jason Licht four years from now.
The problem with Dominick was that his misses were darn near as bad as the Aguayo miss.
December 11th, 2017 at 11:02 am
JMarkBuc
Gruden always had his teams prepared and motivated. Gruden has also been studying players since he been with ESPN. So yes, I am serious. My first option at coach isn’t available (Harbaugh) so why not go with Gruden? You’re telling me that Gruden wouldn’t be a significant upgrade from Dirk?? Only thing we need to skeptical about is who will his D.C. be?
December 11th, 2017 at 11:07 am
Please give me the horrible Gruden decisions and a Division Title or two, and mix in a Super Bowl win.
PLEASE.
December 11th, 2017 at 11:12 am
I’ve said it a thousand times…hear me now, the season is done, the team is regressing, time to bring in a new regime …NOTHING GOOD WILL COME FROM THE BACK/STABBING JOB LICHT PREFORMED ON LOVIE!
December 11th, 2017 at 11:15 am
Give me a break. Licht didnt back stab Lovie, his defense did. If Lovie was still here we would still be picking in the top 10.
December 11th, 2017 at 11:36 am
So if your making the argument Gruden was horrible with personnel, which is a pretty valid argument, he must be one heck of coach then. I mean he finished his last two years with a 9-7 record using basically a terrible and aging roster. He must be super talented at coaching bums.
December 11th, 2017 at 11:38 am
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There is talk that Gruden and Michael Lombardi (GM) will be a package … and also that Josh McDaniels as some Patriots development staff guy will be a package as well, so if the Bucs hire Gruden or McDaniels, Licht may be gone … otherwise, I assume Licht will stay and hire his own coach …
*********************
December 11th, 2017 at 11:38 am
I was a rare day when a Gruden team was not prepared.
The worst I can remember was when Kiffin announced he was leaving and the D tanked. I’ll never forgive Kiffin or his evil spawn for that.
So either bring in a Youngry Lion (Harbaugh or McDaniels) or a proven leader of men with passion like Gruden.
This soft, undisciplined, predictable, excuse-driven playground nonsense has to come to a screeching halt.
December 11th, 2017 at 11:42 am
Can’t we all just agree…. lol…
December 11th, 2017 at 11:51 am
We have 6-10 talent at best no matter who the coach is
December 11th, 2017 at 11:51 am
BucThis – I have bad news for you! The Bucs will be picking in the top 10 this year. 4-12 will land you in the top 5 actually most of the time.
December 11th, 2017 at 11:55 am
The Bucs has the least talented team in the NFC South. That’s the reason for them being the ONLY team in the division with a losing record. People keep talking about how much talent they have. Where is the talent? It must be based on potential ( paper talent), it’s certainly isn’t based on their performance. Just keep fooling yourselves (Delusional Bucs Fans) and enjoy the annual humiliation.
December 11th, 2017 at 12:36 pm
4 years in, and you should be showing signs of growth on both sides of the ball. Not just potential on one side.
The D-line is atrocious. The O-line is not anywhere near as good as both Koetter and Licht believed it to be. The Aguayo situation, not drafting one of the plug and play starting Running backs in this years draft, not signing Calais Campbell…
Yes, Jason Licht has brought in some good players. And from my perspective, he is a solid over-all evaluator of talent. And I would go as far as to say if he was not in a contract year, he probably wouldn’t even be fired.
But his short comings, and poor decision making on players that were either colossal failures, or would have been have been tremendous additions if they were signed… Well at this point I’m just not sure whether his good has outweighed the bad.
But it doesn’t matter what I think, It matters what the Glaziers think, and whatever the heck those guys are thinking, they had better start acting fast. Because the absolute worst thing they can do is get rid of Licht after all the great candidates are spoken for.
December 11th, 2017 at 12:39 pm
TouchDownTB- Thanks captain obvious. Clearly, a 4-12 will land you a top 10 pick. This is why there is a discussion about coaching, GM, and personnel change.
My point about Lovie picking a top ten pick was referring to this latest draft where we picked 19. Meaning not even Lovie would have been able to get to 9-7 or even 7-9 for that matter.
December 11th, 2017 at 1:31 pm
@BucThis: I ain’t giving no more breaks ….some can’t or make that are unable to or refuse to believe that Licht would BACK/STAB Lovie, but he had to to keep his job. BACK-STABBING HAS CONSANGUINEOUS….I need not say more.
December 11th, 2017 at 1:35 pm
I have no problem with Licht at GM. He pretty much kills it every year in the draft. It’s this terrible coaching staff that is not being able to use the talent correctly. But I suppose that is also on Jason a bit. 3-4! 3-4! 3-4! GO BUCS!!!
December 11th, 2017 at 2:17 pm
To me Licht is the only one whos job should be safe. He hasent been perfect but he clearly has made this team very talented even with the whiffs. It’s not his job to win games, only to stack the team with talent.
December 11th, 2017 at 2:41 pm
Joseph Momma
I would give Gruden a whirl, if and only if he is not allowed anywhere near personnel decisions. GMs GM, coaches coach, players play.
December 11th, 2017 at 2:49 pm
Jason Licht is under contract for 3 more games and that’s it.
The Glazers has not picked up his 5th year option. And they haven’t even mention an extension. Somewhere Jason Licht is shaking like an alcoholic. A 4-12 record won’t help his case.
December 11th, 2017 at 4:02 pm
Mike Lombardi has been linked as GM in the Gruden return rumors.
December 11th, 2017 at 5:36 pm
Well at least we do know..Our Bucs will concentrate on the Defense for the draft and free agency. They almost have to. Maybe even a new DC.
December 11th, 2017 at 7:42 pm
Licht, Koetter, and Smith’s biggest miscalculation of talent was along the defensive line. Poor D-Line play effects the whole defense, its hard to judge just how bad the secondary is when the opposing quarterbacks literally have all day to pass the ball. Bad Defense means less opportunities for your offense…meaning the offense is pressing knowing they have to score early and often because the defense sucks. Horribly D line play has a total ripple effect that effects the whole team.
IMO…fix d line this off season (draft and free agency), give front office another year and see what happens.