Done With Edge Rush Crutch
December 12th, 2017
“Really, 2.5 sacks?”
After Sunday’s loss to the limp Lions, Joe is absolutely, positively finished with the Bucs’ team whining and crying about a lack of a pass rush.
The Bucs just finished their 13th game of the season and, with the exception of an accident against the Jets, have not had a pass rush all season. Bucs coach Dirk Koetter cited the lack of a rush for allowing Lions quarterback Matt Stafford to complete 82 percent of his throws — 82 percent!!!
Joe was doing a bit of research Sunday night on inept Lovie Smith’s Bucs and noticed that as rotten of a team as the Bucs were in 2014 (remember, that is the year they won the Chase for Jameis), the Bucs and Lovie actually got some production and sacks from three stiffs on the defensive line, homesick Ghost Johnson, weed-carrying, kneeling, late-hitting Akeem Spence and gun-totin,’ guitar-plucking Da’Quan Bowers.
Somehow, some way, Lovie found a way to get 8.5 sacks from that troika in 2014. In retrospect, amazing.
So Joe looked at the current Bucs roster and noticed three guys on the defensive line, two ends and a tackle, that are thought to be better than three stiffs like Ghost, Spence and Bowers (Ghost is a headcase; Spence is known far more for what he does off the field for the Lions than anything he has done on the field; and Bowers is slogging through the CFL and prone to Twitter screeds about how Bucs AC/DC-loving general manager Jason Licht ruined his career).
Below are the 2017 sack totals (through 13 games) and salaries of three respected Bucs defensive linemen: Robert Ayers, Swaggy Baker and Will Gholston.
Robert Ayers, $6,250,000: two sacks.
Swaggy Baker, $6,000,000: half-sack.
Will Gholston, $7,000,000: sackless.
(Just to be a smart aleck, Joe will point out that kind of cash could have bought Calais Campbell with pocket change left over for dinner and maybe a couple of cocktails.)
Koetter likes to point out that “our guys are our guys.” He’s right. And his assistant coaches are his assistant coaches.
If Lovie, of all people, could have found a way to get blood from an onion and cobble together 8.5 sacks from Ghost, Spence and Bowers, then Mike Smith and Jay Hayes ought to be able or should have been able to find a way for Ayers, Swaggy and/or Gholston to get more than 2.5 sacks between the three of them. If you are not mathematically inclined, that averages out to less than a sack through 13 games from three guys who are costing Team Glazer a combined $19 million for 2017. That’s just a shameful and embarrassing misuse of talent.
Joe’s had it with the whining about the pass rush (what edge rush?). Coach your guys up!
If Lovie could find a way, there is simply no excuse for such dismal results from the current defensive staff other than possibly some folks at One Buc Palace are just content with cashing weekly checks autographed by Team Glazer.
One reason Lovie was launched from One Buc Palace two years ago was he knew for weeks (months?) Kwon Alexander was going to be suspended late in the season, and yet Lovie didn’t/couldn’t/wouldn’t adjust or prepare.
The current defensive coaching staff knew in September they didn’t have an edge rush after Noah Spence blew out his shoulder (again) in Minnesota. And what have they done about it some three months later?
December 12th, 2017 at 12:10 am
I think Ayers has a little pride, but the other two are shameless paycheck cashers (products of the culture at 1 Buc that starts at the very top).
Swaggy cares as much for Tampa and their dwindling fanbase as Charlie Sheen cares about his last girlfriend (which is not at all).
December 12th, 2017 at 12:22 am
Part of the problem is that stubbornness, common to older coaches, prevents you from finding solutions instead of doing the same thing that’s not working. When Belichek’s guys couldn’t get pressure rushing four, he said f_it. “I’ll drop 9 guys into coverage on passing downs.” And it drove Manning and some other qbs crazy. Smith just keeps doing the same thing, hoping the result will change.
December 12th, 2017 at 12:22 am
Why not bring up McCoy’s five sacks? They only cost over 3 million each. Maybe he is supposed to be a disrupter and not measured by sacks alone?
How is Baker considered to be “Edge Rush”? I thought he was an interior lineman. Simeon Rice was “Edge Rush”. If Baker was brought in to turn the corner on “Edge Rush” then the GM failed miserably at choosing what he needed.
December 12th, 2017 at 12:27 am
For one, Joe was using the three players as an example. Second, GMC has been one of the best defensive tackles in the NFL since he came into the league. The story, in case you couldn’t tell, was about non-production, not production.
Don’t know who did. Joe never did. As pointed out in the story, Joe cited two ends and a tackle. Baker is a tackle.
Reading comprehension is a wonderful thing.
December 12th, 2017 at 12:35 am
Joe,
If I could ask one question to Koetter or Smith I would ask why aren’t receiver being jammed at the line?
December 12th, 2017 at 12:36 am
I find it interesting that both coaches have stuck to a course and don’t care what the public has to say. I think you’ll find that in most coaches good and bad.
December 12th, 2017 at 12:48 am
Campbell would not have found the production in Tampa that he’s getting in Jacksonville. That is a stacked defense, unlike the Bucs. You can’t just plug a guy in and assume he’s gonna have the same production. With the Bucs, he wouldn’t even be close to 10 sacks. Especially with Noah Spence out and Ayers missing games.
December 12th, 2017 at 12:52 am
My bad. I figured an article titled “Done with the Edge Rush Crutch” would be about actual edge rushers. Lovie Smith had a top ten defense and top five offense in 2015. So, it is no surprise he was a better coach and got more out of his players than the current bunch.
December 12th, 2017 at 2:07 am
I get the feeling Joe is ready to give Koetter and the gang the boot. Maybe you just don’t wanna publicly say it. They’re gonna be kicking rocks in 3 wks, no way they survive this disaster. Besides #3 has his big payday coming up and I don’t see the Glazers trusting the current staff with a potential 100 million dollar investment in their franchise QB. Only reason Koetter is head coach is because of Winston and apparently that love affair is deteriorating quickly. Unless it’s just fake news and in that case Ian Rapoport should be fired
December 12th, 2017 at 2:12 am
real men sack qb’s…
hehe…
truer words have never been spoken
December 12th, 2017 at 2:13 am
Joe has discussed this in detail on Ira’s pods of late. Joe’s open if not willing to see Koetter have a chance to fix this thing. With just a bit of luck and a kicker, Bucs would be in a wild card race. Yeah, really.
Remember, Koetter won nine games last year with no running game and one receiver.
With the exception of Mark Duffner, there needs to be a housecleaning of the defensive assistants. Love Mike Smith but as he and Koetter often say, the NFL is a results business.
December 12th, 2017 at 2:25 am
Hey we got Cross and Martino back so things are looking up.
December 12th, 2017 at 2:58 am
If it is true that JW and DK are having issues so much that it’s in the national media there’s no way ownership allows it to carryover into next season. No one talks about the Bucs unless it’s a Uber ride gone bad,or the QB starting a fight on the sideline that got ME13 suspended, and now this. Glazers are hearing and reading the same things we are!Someone has to go. Wish you all the best Koetter.
December 12th, 2017 at 3:07 am
To me this is which came first the chicken or the egg? Is it a terrible pass rush or the fact we have only one corner?
When I watch the games I see the QBs will get the ball out so quick because there is such a cushion on the outside. This not only limited the time for the pass rushers to get home but put the DBs at a disadvantage to be able to cover tightly and create coverage sacks.
So why play soft coverage so often?
Did the coaching staff know the pass rush was terrible and backed up the DBs figuring the QB will have all day so lets not get burnt?
Or did they know the DBs were trash and hoped the pass rush would save them?
I tend to lean to this one considering we have not tried to jam or use press man. We know we would get roasted. Also we attempted to bolster this position during the season with Ward but couldn’t pick up the phone and call Freeney or anyone else to help.
December 12th, 2017 at 4:05 am
Noah Spence is an edge rusher?
When has he ever shown any prove of that?
Noah Spence is a 6’2”, 245# Lb being miscast here, out of desperation.
Because they are too stupid to play the defense that they actually have the talent for.
A 3-4 defense
Which is why Spence is being forced to play against 6’6”, 320# tackles
And also why he keeps getting his shoulder torn off
December 12th, 2017 at 4:10 am
Proof*
December 12th, 2017 at 5:46 am
Joe, you’re becoming much too predictable (just like someone else we all know?). First it was ‘Yards for Winston’ … and no, passing yardage doesn’t win football games, points do. Now it’s ‘We’re losing because we have no pass rush’. News flash: Bucs are losing because 9 other T-E-A-M-S were better than they are (with 3 more better teams on the horizon).
Bucs’ pass rush doesn’t suck … It’s non-existent. Sorta kinda what happens when your GM (the provider of the ‘resources’) stocks the DLine with talent that he KNOWS aren’t world-beaters when it comes to pass rushing. He did his best to get away CHEAP, and it’s costing the Bucs dearly. GMC & McDonald are bonafide DTs IMO. Baker & Siliga? Not so much (OK, not at all). I love Will Gholston’s heart, but something’s wrong, and has been all season (Hint: as ‘reporters’ y’all might try to find out what). Ayers is getting long-in-the-tooth (hey, he is 32 & at 273 lbs has no business playing inside because we have no DTs right now). Noah Spence has the heart of a lion IMO, but is simply too small to last 16 games at DE in the NFL. The rest (Russell, Clarke, O’Connor) haven’t shown me much to this point in the season.
And yet, despite Licht’s incompetence at finding ‘Talent for the Trenches’ Bucs’ defense (yes, under Smitty) has managed to do something that Lovie couldn’t: Smitty’s defenses (2016 & 2017) actually rank considerably BETTER when it comes to POINTS ALLOWED than they do in YARDAGE ALLOWED. In 2016 they ranked 15th in Points Allowed (decent), but 23rd in Yardage Allowed (boo). This year they rank 22nd in Points Allowed, but 31st in Yardage Allowed. Lovie’s defenses ranked 25th & 26th in Points Allowed in his 2 seasons. The one common denominator in all 4 years? The quality of players that Jason Licht provided to BOTH coaches.
The real underachiever here has been the Bucs’ offense. Licht spent his wad on ‘Weapons for Winston’ when he should’ve been building the trenches, on BOTH sides of the ball. Hmmm, seems like someplace I remember a Biblical story about the dangers of building your house on sand instead of on a solid rock foundation.
December 12th, 2017 at 5:55 am
Sack production increases when you blitz the QB. How much is the lack of sacks due to the defensive scheme? How many defensive ends have the Bucs drafted in the past four years?
December 12th, 2017 at 5:56 am
Baker – never liked from start and was hoping to be wrong
Ghoston- never had sack production so don’t know why JOE would expect different. I didn’t care much for keeping him especially at that price but he was made by many and JBF also to be a need to sign. I think the guy never had a healthy year in books. His production was on par as Martin and JBF demanded him to go.
Ayers – thought he would make impact, disappointment.
Cut all 3 and sign a real aafree agent DE ( not and injured or potirntial one a real one )
December 12th, 2017 at 6:06 am
What about Jay Hayes?…..He was supposed to be a steal….great Dline coach…..did he simply become a poor coach at Tampa?……he was even touted as a potential DC.
I really don’t think it’s the coaching regarding our Dline….we simply don’t have the players….didn’t draft high on DEs….(oh, except for the Dominick disaster, Bowers)….and Noah Spence who has been hurt since he arrived.
December 12th, 2017 at 6:48 am
Joe
Your Right 3 million a Sack is a bargain
Your Love if a GMC is now Ridiculous
You criticize everyone one this team but him
He is the LEADER of the DEFENSE
What is HE doing to change the team
Heck you write every other on Jamies
Atleast he talks about Winning
All we get from GMC is we were” Flat Today”
“BUT My Check was Fat “
You are a genius though GMC must be you in to the lockerroom
December 12th, 2017 at 7:04 am
I agree in part with what TBBF said. Hayes (and Smith) did not suddenly become dumb. Not that I completely exonerate them, but a coach is only as good as his players. And for Licht to have completely ignored huge obvious NEED positions of DE (as well as RB) is dumbfounding – as dumbfounding as Lovie giving away our Oline and replacing them with nobodys!
Licht does a great job drafting if one ignores NEED (he may have another grand slam this year). But how the heck does one just totally ignore NEED positions like DE and RB?!?!!!!! yeah, yeah, we are very deep at LB. Who cares if we can’t get to the QB?!
December 12th, 2017 at 7:19 am
ATrain- Just for fun last night I decided to watch ONE player on Miami’s defense, the DT Suh. I did it for a number of reasons but primarily because he and GMC were drafted together. Some people say that the DT is supposed take over games, change how the offense plays. Some say we don’t have that in GMC. Well, watching last night’s game there was an element that did take over the game. That element did NOT come from the middle as one would assume with the great DT Suh and his 3.5 sacks (4.5 now!).
The announcers called it an EDGE RUSH! Until this game I was completely unaware of this element. After all, we are told that a DT is supposed to do all of this. Watching curiously, I was able to locate what the announcers referred to as a DEFENSIVE END. The DE for Miami, some guy named Wake, kept coming around the OT creating “PRESSURE”, another term that I was unaware of. That “pressure” from the “edge rush” caused the GOAT to be hurried, sacked, and throw picks.
“Where was the DT?” I found myself asking. He was in the middle getting gobbled up by blockers on MOST plays. And I asked, “Isn’t he supposed to be ‘changing the game’ as others refer to with GMC?” Nope, on this night, this night belonged to the “EDGE RUSHERS”!
What a novel concept that a DT can play in the middle and allow DEs to rush and harass the QB!
Oh, that 3 million a sack from GMC? Yeah, that’s a bargain! This season, Suh commands 4.23 million PER SACK.
Perspective!!!
December 12th, 2017 at 7:29 am
Spence was a bad pick not as a player but for this team when considering what you needed but picked a guy who is to small to be an every down rusher
I seem to remember the Joe’s being on board with resigning a guy who can only play run defense even though we still suck at stopping the run
Final thought is this defenseless front needs a full makeover especially GMC. The self proclaimed leader of this defense was just in the sidelines crying about an unknown injury during a game when though there were only 4 games left and they are completely out of the playoffs. This was no Ryan shazier type injury and I just can’t see hiw a grown man crying on national TV somehow demonstrates leadership.
This current regime will get fired because the coach is to loyal to place the best 11 and the gm won’t make in season roster moves, if dirk gets embarrassed Monday night he should but he won’t since he’s not embarrassed by the sorry offense he runs
December 12th, 2017 at 7:54 am
Db55
Your guess is as good as any. Ill always wonder that. For some reason mike smith doesnt believe in it. You’d figure after getting embarrassed so many times he would at least try it one game. This staff has no balls. Theyre soft. Maybe theyre afraid one of their guys will get hurt jamming a receiver, the same guys who get torched every week. If they dont play more man teams are just gona copy the lions now and throw quick passes to the rb and tight end and slot wr, as other teams have before detroit. It looks to me the other teams offensive coach sees what the bucs d is playing on the first drive, then attacks the weakness all game. Of course once the game starts the bucs make no adjustments, and other teams know it. Ive seen quotes from different coaches the bucs offense is the most predictable in the league, heard the same about the defense. Pretty sad and a definite indictment on this sorry staff. Adios. For all you people picking on certain players, cmon really? This staff has no clue how to coach them up or adjust. Let the new coaches decide who to keep. I guarantee we will be surprised by who plays well in a new system. This whole thing is on the coaches, simple as that.
December 12th, 2017 at 8:12 am
That’s on smith
And licht for rolling the dice on 2 guys coming back from injury.
December 12th, 2017 at 8:33 am
From a business cost perspective….missing on free agents is way more expensive then missing on draft picks. These veterans get their pensions, annuities and hsa’s funded on top of their higher salaries and signing bonuses. Draft picks often are signed at minimums or at Most below avg salaries of their peers.
Licht has blown chunks on free agents and is avg but not great on draft picks. If he stays he won’t have control of the roster. Currently he sits with no extension so that speaks volumes.
December 12th, 2017 at 8:39 am
@Darin … “This whole thing is on the coaches, simple as that.” Simple as that? Not hardly. Tackles by Mike Smith … 0. Sacks … 0. INTs … 0. Passes thrown by Koetter … 0. Rushes … 0. Blocks … 0. Need I go on Darin? This is a bottom-third T-E-A-M talent-wise. And close to the very bottom when it comes to making the big plays necessary to be a playoff T-E-A-M. Not smart to shoot the coaches (yet again) BEFORE you give them the player talent to be a contender. THEN if they don’t get results … adios amigo.
December 12th, 2017 at 8:51 am
Inept Mike Smith.
Inept Irk Koetter.
Inept Buc Ownership.
December 12th, 2017 at 9:22 am
Lovie was launched from One Buc Palace two years ago was he knew for weeks (months?) Kwon Alexander was going to be suspended late in the season, and yet Lovie didn’t/couldn’t/wouldn’t adjust or prepare.
I thought lovie was canned because they didn’t want to lose dirk….or lovie was canned because of the relationship winston and dirk had….that 2015 team overachieved with the talent we had….
and people think dirks a better coach….I cant tell….that 9-7 season is looking like a bigger fluke with each passing week….dirk has solidified himself as the worse coach in bucs history…..everybody on the team has regressed….happy he wont be here for much longer…..GO BUCS!!!!
December 12th, 2017 at 9:24 am
anyone seen:….
@realist
@stpete
GO BUCS!!!!
December 12th, 2017 at 9:25 am
^^^813, and with more talent than Lovie!
December 12th, 2017 at 9:56 am
Gmc makes that combine salary ALONE!!! To be more accurate 16 mil almost totalled all of than and he got 5 sacks 😂😂😂
December 12th, 2017 at 10:02 am
^^^Which is twice as many sacks as 3 other players combined! It’s pathetic on ALL counts.
Lamarcus- What is this “edge rush” thing Gruden was talking about last night?! I wrote about my experience above. I had no idea that there were DEs who are supposed to bring pressure also.
December 12th, 2017 at 10:13 am
and if I see beckwith lining up at DE one more time im going to lose it!!!….why are we putting this young man at risk?….he’s going to end up messing up his shoulder like spence or injuring his knee tangling with those tackles like he’s a 6’5 285 pound DE…..
his advantage is his speed….send him on a delayed blitz from the outside or up the middle instead of showing the offense exactly what we’re going to do and allowing them to adjust and pick up the blitz….GO BUCS!!!!!
December 12th, 2017 at 10:28 am
The Ghost of Lovie Smith will soon be joined by the Ghost of Dirk Koetter and Pressbox Smitty.
December 12th, 2017 at 11:06 am
“The real underachiever here has been the Bucs’ offense.”
Bingo.
1. If you are top 5 in passing yards you should be a top 10 scoring offense. The disparity is due to
A) Horrific red zone calling by Koetter.
B) Horrific red zone execution and sloppy play in general. – i.e. big O-line penalties that kill drives / take points away; or turnovers by Winston.
Mike Smith has had way less talent to work with than Koetter; yet is in the same ballpark in terms of a points scored/allowed ranking. Both have sucked this year – but Koetter has sucked harder.
His playbook was sh1t this year for the most part. He did not build a playbook around the talent and he does not maximize the talent whatsoever. He has one of the harder offenses to run for a QB in the league; with the amount of deep drops and lack of short route options.
I just can’t see how anyone could have any hope in Koetter as a play caller in 2018. Head coach maybe but holy sh1t turn over your playbook and get a real OC who is with the times
December 12th, 2017 at 11:30 am
BUCSFAN your point IS?
Joe wrote about Baker being paid and only having 1/2 sack
Doesnt he play DT?
Well so I read the article and wrote about the LEADER of the DEFENSE
and SUH has collected his pay check and sits back and collects JUST LIKE GMC
NOW look a Campbell
GMC is the HIGHEST paid player on the team
THE LEADER?
But we get what from him
Oh he takes two blockers
Yes this is true sometimes
What do we get after the game
WE were FLAT OH WELL
You will defend this man to the end just like JOE with no criticism
Well not me Im not BLIND
IF JOE thinks the others on this team have earned criticism WELL SO HAS GMC
PERIOD
IF YOU THINK GMC HAS put out all every play every game and is the only one doing that on this team HAHA your BLIND
December 12th, 2017 at 11:54 am
Geez ATrain! I didn’t mean to offend your sensitivities. I was really just commenting light-heartedly on the difference an edge-rush makes.
You are so singularly focused on GMC that you don’t know how to comment on anything else.
Lighten up. At least tmax and DB55 have fun with it. You just sound angry.
I’ll leave you alone in your safe place.
December 12th, 2017 at 1:10 pm
When you go dumpster diving in free agency – this is what you get. Ayers was a huge mistake since he was a guy who had never done anything until a contract season, then playing out of position he got a run of games where he got sacks. Gholston made zero sense to me as he’s nothing but a run stopper and $7-mil/year seemed extreme. Baker I give the most slack to as he was signed for backup money – yet people thought he was/is a starter – also it was considered a good deal by most everyone that follows football. The issue is the Bucs signed him to be the guy next to McCoy – and he isn’t that.
Lesson – and it’s a lesson we learned from Gruden – don’t think a few third-tier players are as important as one top tier player. Gruden let Sapp walk and cut Lynch in order to sign a bunch of garbage aging offensive linemen and so he could give $5-mil to Charlie Garner. The outcome was completely predictable.
December 12th, 2017 at 1:57 pm
Well Bucsfan
You must miss all my other posts on defending Winston and thoughts on Coaching
Yes in a very happy place…
Relax I just gave it back… SO MANY Blind followers of a man who careless about winning,.
Yet we wonder were is the losing attitude coming from..
December 12th, 2017 at 2:22 pm
I get you ATrain. It’s hard to get behind this team at all these days. The losing, year, after year, after year wears on you.
The issue I think with him is that he knows nothing else. Last year was I think maybe the 2nd time the team actually had a winning record.
I always say I’m a Bucs fan. As a fan, I will always root for my team. We are going to disagree sometimes, that’s OK. Don’t think for a minute though that I’m not FULLY aware of the pitiful showing our defensive line has been all year. Whether he has 5 sacks or 20, this is a team game and we just are NOT getting it done. I would be surprised if they did not blow this whole thing up in the offseason. Everything’s on the table, including GMC.
Sorry if I was a little pointed earlier! Too much caffeine! 🙂
December 12th, 2017 at 2:32 pm
What’s the opinion on Jay Hayes now? Surely he will be packing his bags come this offseason.
Very surprising considering how everyone was hooting and hollering how we had picked a “steal” by luring him away from Cincinnati.
December 12th, 2017 at 3:10 pm
I just wanna say… Screw Gruden!!!
December 12th, 2017 at 5:24 pm
Bucs Fan
I like pointed its good
I think some of this gets back to the Bucs
Don’t think I’m one that would cut GMC
I just want all he has to give
When he is on he is DANGEROUS and possibly Better than Sapp
But he gives up to much