Still Part-Time Hargreaves
November 7th, 2017
Lost in the embarrassment of the Bucs failing to compete on Sunday — again! — was another relocation and demotion for Vernon Hargreaves.
A quick timeline:
Hargreaves had been brutal and was demoted from outside cornerback, where he played nearly 100 percent of snaps, to nickel cornerback for the Buffalo game. He played ok.
During that game, new outside starter Robert McClain, a free agent who was unwanted on the street for many weeks this spring, got a concussion. So the following week Hargreaves moved back outside against the Panthers. And he was pretty solid.
But two days ago in New Orleans, Hargreaves was back at nickel with McClain healthy and playing 100 percent of the snaps outside and Ryan Smith getting the other 100 percent at corner with Brent Grimes injured. Hargreaves was in on 45 percent of snaps, per Pro Football Reference.
Man, Hargreaves has fallen from grace. He can’t beat out Smith or McClain for playing time, even after coming off a couple of decent games. This guy was the No. 11 overall pick last season!!
With the season out of reach, Joe sure hopes the Bucs stick Hargreaves back outside and see if he can man up and grow at the position. They didn’t draft him to play nickel.
November 7th, 2017 at 3:46 pm
Man up is the appropriate word. This team has entirely too many boys.
November 7th, 2017 at 3:50 pm
But.. but.. but.. “if you can play ball, you can play ball.”
Losing your starting job means you can’t ball at all bro.
November 7th, 2017 at 3:52 pm
this staff sucks….the kid played well up close to the LOS for 2 games and then he’s back to the nickel/bench….this staff is ruining our players….the only way he’ll get better is if he plays….is mcclain the future?…NO!!…GO BUCS!!!
November 7th, 2017 at 3:52 pm
Everyone said he was a huge mistake, 5’10 slow CBs shouldn’t be a 1st round prospect, Licht constructed this team, no more Lovie to blame this on, time to turn off the Licht, how’s that grand slam looking now, DSmith is horrible, Jameis is getting worse and starting to act crazy, Marpet is good and Kwon has a chance if he gets a decent coach, free agents have resoundingly been disappointing, Licht on bonafide hit is the freaking punter, no one in the last 5 drafts is pro bowl caliber other than Evans, it’s over
November 7th, 2017 at 3:54 pm
Wonder why we can’t stop the run or rush the passer.
In the deepest defensive line draft in 20 years
We take a small slow db
A 230 pound defensive end
A kicker.
And u wonder why we are going 2-13 this year….
November 7th, 2017 at 3:54 pm
The 11th overall pick is playing nickel.smh
November 7th, 2017 at 3:58 pm
It is kind of hard to evaluate CBs when they play on a team with the worst pass rush in the league.
VHIII & RYan Smith have both had some solid performances; and really terrible one’s as well through their first 2 seasons (basically rookie year this year for Smith). The pass rush has been terrible all year though; with no good performances really.
It’d be interesting to see how well CBs across the league play historically when their team is last or 2nd to last in QB pressures/hits/sacks/etc generated from the front 7. I’m guessing not many had great seasons.
November 7th, 2017 at 4:07 pm
https://www.joebucsfan.com/2016/06/short-corners-long-on-talent/
———–
But wtf do I know?
November 7th, 2017 at 4:09 pm
Could it be the Free agent acquisitions this year are hurting us the most? I guess I want an explanation of how a 9 win team last year continues to get manhandled in games. I suppose the answer is so complex that we may never really know.
November 7th, 2017 at 4:10 pm
lichts once promising draft picks are crumbling under the pressure and curse of the losing culture. it’s miserable to loss and even more miserable when high paid team captains actually condone and appreciate stinking up the place week in and week out.
November 7th, 2017 at 4:15 pm
He would have been fine if Smith new how to coach .
November 7th, 2017 at 4:19 pm
Saw a lot of hustle out of Ryan Smith on Sunday. Had 4 tackles & 5 assists playing in all 60 snaps. McClain had the second most on the team (4 tackles & 3 assists) also playing in all 60 snaps, while VHIII had 1 tackle 0 assists in 27 snaps. Not sure how many passes defensed anyone had, but Brees did go 22-for-27 so couldn’t have been very many.
Not at all sure what these coaches are doing right now personnel-wise. And why they’re doing it. Tandy is apparently healthy but sat the whole game. So did Elliott. McCoy played in 90% of the snaps, but McDonald (who I thought hustled his tail off) played less than 50% of the snaps. Kwon got pushed around in the middle I thought, but still he played 100% of the snaps, while Beckwith (who’s stouter in the middle IMO) only played in 57%. Just kept thinking “If what you’re doing isn’t working, TRY SOMETHING ELSE.”
Any update on Will Gholston? It didn’t look good when he went off.
November 7th, 2017 at 4:21 pm
don’t worry VHG….the new coach will know what to do with you….GO BUCS!!!
November 7th, 2017 at 4:31 pm
Defense Rules
Kendell Beckwith will never be an outside LB.
November 7th, 2017 at 4:33 pm
Defense Rules Says:
November 7th, 2017 at 4:19 pm
Saw a lot of hustle out of Ryan Smith on Sunday. Had 4 tackles & 5 assists playing in all 60 snaps. McClain had the second most on the team (4 tackles & 3 assists) also playing in all 60 snaps, while VHIII had 1 tackle 0 assists in 27 snaps. Not sure how many passes defensed anyone had, but Brees did go 22-for-27 so couldn’t have been very many.
Deon sanders said on nfl network,” when a cb has that many tackles, it means the wrs are catching all over them”….
and it true….I played cb at BCU….one year we played Miami I had 7 tackles…LOL…they were catching everything….my brother who didn’t attend the game looked at the stats and said damn bro you was balling…I said I tried…he asked me if I played safety that game, I said nawl…they was throwing all over the place….lol…we put up a good fight tho….coaches were proud we didn’t embarrass yourself….. GO BUCS!!!
November 7th, 2017 at 4:38 pm
I will say it again. He only played well on the outside against Carolina because he is able to keep up with slower WRs.
The fact is he is just flat out too slow to play on the outside. That is why he was playing so far off. So he has a better chance not to get beat deep.
He might not have been drafted to be a slot CB but that might just be what he is due to his speed. Which would be a big misevaluation by Licht and the rest of the staff.
Some other misevaluations, imo:
Ryan Smith as a Safety
Ali Marpet as a Center
Noah Spence as a 4-3 DE
November 7th, 2017 at 4:44 pm
We sent the wrong GM to Tennessee.
November 7th, 2017 at 4:54 pm
Ryan Smith and Justin Evans both balled Sunday.
November 7th, 2017 at 5:11 pm
Laremy Tunsil was pick here but Licht has no plan just grassping at straws and kickers to build this franchise, time for him to go and unfortunately the bucs at square one again
November 7th, 2017 at 5:13 pm
VGH3 played very well against Carolina. McClain sucks,
Idk why we didn’t jus keep VH3 out there to prove himself more. I blame Mike Smith. He’s obviously the one telling his corners to play that far off
November 7th, 2017 at 5:13 pm
Funny but most teams drafted well over the last 3 years. I would like to hear why each was drafted and whom put on their stamp of approval. Our best picks have been non drafted players.
November 7th, 2017 at 5:14 pm
Out of chaos comes order and out of order comes chaos.
November 7th, 2017 at 5:17 pm
I’d hate to see Koetter go, but if he some how stays, he needs to let go of his buddy Mike Smith.
November 7th, 2017 at 5:19 pm
813bucboi … I agree totally, but then again, Brees was 22-for-27. And I saw several where he missed the throw, not that we defended it. Your exactly right though, when your CBs are making that many tackles there’s an excellent chance you’re gettin’ whooped. Only CB I see any hope in as an outside corner for the future is still Ryan Smith. Sure wish they hadn’t wasted that year trying to make him into something he’s not. VHIII isn’t an outside CB (due to height & speed especially), but as a nickel he’s got some decent potential. Waste of a #1 pick but hey, at least he’s helping us some.
November 7th, 2017 at 5:28 pm
@def
agreed
didnt see much of Ryan Smith on pass coverage, but the kid isnt scared to throw his body on the sweeps and he seems to be a sure tackler….very surprised
****any news or why licht isnt talking much?
November 7th, 2017 at 5:35 pm
IT IS SO BAD AT ONE BUC PLACE , IT WILL TAKE 5 YEARS TO CLEAN UP THIS MESS, EVEN THE STINK DON’T WANT TO BE THERE…. 4- 12 THIS YEAR AND HEADS WILL BE ROLLIN’ ON BOTH SIDES OR THE BALL AND COACHES AND LICHT TOO…….YOU CAN’T WIN WITH THIS BUNCH OR BROKEN WHEELS……
November 7th, 2017 at 5:50 pm
What made these guys so hungry last year suck so bad this year? First, they didn’t have bad team captains like Mike Evans, with malign influence from guys like DeSean Jackson who think they are bigger than the team. Next, is the Jameis “family show” and kid antics delivered with charisma and heart, doesn’t make good decisions and complete passes. His team is losing confidence in him because he still can’t hit DJax or anyone on a long ball. Third, plenty of good prep is easy for this vanilla offense with an overtasked HC playing OC and playcaller. Fourth, lack of “want to” and leadership from guys like Swaggy Baker is killing the drive of guys like Kwon and McDonald and others. Fifth, these guys don’t care about there fans–especially if the fans who buy tickets gripe about their kneeldowns and lack of discipline. Sixth, they can’t draft a DE or three that is healthy, and refuse to find one in free agency. Net result of all these leads to the seventh: these guys aren’t playing for each other, not playing for their coaches, and sure aren’t playing for their fans. 0-8 through second half of season. They get worse every week; there is no team they can beat right now.
November 7th, 2017 at 6:12 pm
Last I checked…Nickle has been more important these days. Not really a demotion.
November 7th, 2017 at 6:14 pm
@BUC MAN
It will only take 5 years IF the Glazers fire Koetter. If they show some backbone and keep him, things will turn around quickly.
November 7th, 2017 at 6:18 pm
VHIII will be fine. Everyone here said he was great last year. Players sometimes have bad years.
I’m really not worried about him at all. Moving him to Nickle might insprie him to try harder though, so I’m in favor of it.
You people turn on players far, far too quickly. I can name many instances where you guys wanted to cut players that ended up becoming good. In fact, as I recall, fans wanted John Lynch cut in his second year. He himself has said multiple times he wasn’t sure he would even make the team back then.
November 7th, 2017 at 6:19 pm
Jason Licht is in hiding
November 7th, 2017 at 6:22 pm
I agree with Lakeland….where are the Glazers and/or Licht? I know some NFL owners keep low profiles, but it would be nice to hear their comments on this disaster of a season.
November 7th, 2017 at 6:24 pm
Jameis Winston’s completion percentage is 61.8% and Tom Brady is 65%. And Jameis doesn’t throw 5 yard slants all day.
Joe why are these people so uniformed?
November 7th, 2017 at 6:28 pm
Check that Brady is at 68. Nevertheless
November 7th, 2017 at 6:35 pm
@Buccaneer Bonzai
He was litterally the worst CB in the NFL last year. He gave up over 1,000 yards on his own, the only CB in the NFL to accomplish such a feat.
He can be inspired all he wants, its not gonna make him any faster…
November 7th, 2017 at 6:38 pm
Never liked this pick, but always tried to root for him and get behind him.
If we had any semblance of a pass rush, maybe he’d be better on the outside, but we don’t. He’s simply not fast for his size, and everyone could see that before he was drafted. That said, you invested a 1st in him so mind as well see if he can still improve, whether at nickel or outside.
Team Needs: DE, CB, RB, OT, DE, CB, DT, S
November 7th, 2017 at 7:06 pm
First off, Licht should’ve moved up to draft Ramsey instead of moving up to draft Aguayo. Can’t do anything now, but I root for this local kid. To me, it’s got to be coaching, the scheme, or lack of discipline and true leadership of this defense. 93, 58, 54 are not leaders like how 55, 99, 20, and 47 were. He’s not the only defensive player struggling. I would not give up on him by far. 20 struggled at first too and was not that fast either.
November 8th, 2017 at 4:02 am
licht is busy selling off his home and packing his bags….and at night guzzling beer
November 8th, 2017 at 4:03 am
he really does have a big meaty head…that is all i think about when i see him…a huge squared off meaty noggin
November 8th, 2017 at 4:12 am
this all comes down to no pass rush…and i’m sorry but our d line is crazy soft…mccoy and baker are just soft dudes…look at their body types – soft men lose when going up against rugged men…them dudes just ain’t rugged – and spence at best was small rugged – and that gets pushed around too…it all starts up front…and the bucs front is just too damn soft…gohlston is a tough dude, but gave himself whiplash or something…i saw somewhere that it said sean payton rat tailed him in the neck with a towel and thats why he’s hurting…anyway just kidding about gholston…hope he’s okay
November 8th, 2017 at 4:13 am
what a cockameymey team we’ve got here!
November 8th, 2017 at 8:02 am
I don’t trust this coaching staff, even now that it’s over they don’t want to evaluate the teams talent.
November 8th, 2017 at 10:09 am
@defense rules
Agree with your take on Beckwith
H e has the look of a run stopping middle linebacker.Where Kwan’s speed make him better. Since we are bad at stopping the run, at minimum we should try Beckwith at Mike on running plays.
November 8th, 2017 at 10:10 am
edit:
kwan’s speed makes him better in pass defense.
November 8th, 2017 at 10:45 am
I just wish the Bucs would start building from the trenches first and then start moving out from there. Not saying the Bucs corners are all pro but I’d like to see what they can do when the damn d line can get some pressure on the qb and imagine what Winston could do with a pocket to step up into. He’d probably still float the ball high but one can hope he’d throw a more accurate pass
November 8th, 2017 at 4:32 pm
Good call Joe, stick him back out there. I also suggest that someone tape up his index fingers to the 3 neighboring fingers and prevent the wagging finger until he consistently proves he hasn’t been an absolute BUST.
November 9th, 2017 at 3:30 am
Bob in Valrico Says:
kwan’s speed makes him better in pass defense.
Isn’t that what DB55 did? Played middle deep on pass downs.