Lavonte The Pass Rusher?
November 10th, 2017
Interesting words from Dirk Koetter.
Desperate times call for desperate measures.
And one of those measures to help the defense, Joe thought, was the Bucs giving offenses more 34-front looks. Since winning Bucs coach Dirk Koetter likes to say he wants his best 11 players on the field, and the Bucs have riches in linebackers, why not a 34?
Well, the Bucs do dabble with it a little but Koetter is hesitant to go full-blown 34 defense because he believes this will neuter his best defensive player, stud tackle Gerald McCoy.
But now the Bucs are dumpster diving for defensive ends. Jacquies Smith was hurt again and cut. Noah Spence was hurt again and is on injured reserve. Will Gholston will at least miss Sunday’s Stewart McClown/ASJackwagon Homecoming Game with a scary neck injury.
So how desperate are the Bucs? Well, yesterday, Koetter was asked about the possibility of linebackers or defensive tackles moving to defense end on passing downs.
“Sure, both of those things,” Koetter said.
One reason Joe was harped so much to use a 34 more was to perhaps have outside linebacker Lavonte David blitz more. David is having one of his best seasons and once upon a time, David was able to get after quarterbacks with a good degree of success.
Hey, it worked for Greg Schiano!
November 10th, 2017 at 9:07 am
That’s the most idiotic thing I’ve ever heard. David is a great linebacker but you mean to tell me with all the knowledge in that building your actually thinking he’ll be effective at end as small as he is? Something he’s never done, lol you would do that instead of switching to 3-4 just because of GMC? Damn I can’t wait for this season to be over so they can fire this moron. Talk about not knowing how to get the best out of you’re players, he’s a coordinator and that’s all he’ll ever be nothing wrong with that except somehow we go from lovie to another Raheem Morris type of coach. How embarrassing
November 10th, 2017 at 9:09 am
Stupid coaches being stubborn w system. When you have a smart speedy LVD who can be moved around to creat QB pressure and he isn’t being utilized that way then the defensive play caller is an idiot.
Joe is 100% right LVD on this roster is the only player capable of hitting a QB.
We can’t play a 4/3 with such a soft Dline
November 10th, 2017 at 9:21 am
What’s better than a sling for Jameis’ shoulder? … An O-Line!
Connect the dots…build a functional O-Line…Keep our Franchise’s Hopes and Dreams off the turf…Run for more than 1.7 yards every once and a while…Have better than 6% chance of getting a first down…Keep defense off the field…Keep Defense from getting run ragged…Keep defense from getting beat up…keep defenders from getting injuries…Let LD do what he does best (aka, not play defensive end)
November 10th, 2017 at 9:22 am
No wonder Mike Smith and koetter got fired in Atlanta and the team hasn’t missed a beat since hiring a first time head coach because he knows football and had the balls to get things done. These guys are last in the league in Davis and want to stay in a 4-3 because of one guy who’s doing absolutely nothing anyway that you continue moving the guy who’s been your best defensive all year by far to d end for the first time in his career you would play him at a new position? My question is if they could do that to David why not switch McCoy? Something about that stinks bunch of coward coaches
At least with lovie we knew his coaching days were over clinging to his old ways that didn’t work, so it was simply just annoying that he wouldn’t change. these guys simply have no clue what to do. I’ve never been this embarrassed to be a buc fan. Schiano, Raheem and lovie because of this team assembled can use the excuse they didn’t have talent and still were better coaches than Dirk
November 10th, 2017 at 9:27 am
Koetter is hesitant to go full-blown 34 defense because he believes this will neuter his best defensive player, stud tackle Gerald McCoy.
if dirl “believes” that, then he’s hurting the other 10 guys that play on defense….its a team game not a GMC game….he aint done nothing this year at DT…
If they want to stay in a 43 that’s cool, just moved GMC to DE with CM98 and CB90 in the middle with whoever at the other DE position….that may give us a better chance at stopping the run and making the team 1 dimensional…
this staff has to go…not switching things up for 1 player is crazy….GO BUCS!!!
November 10th, 2017 at 9:33 am
Ed Says:
November 10th, 2017 at 9:09 am
Stupid coaches being stubborn w system.
^^BINGO^^
GO BUCS!!!
November 10th, 2017 at 9:39 am
schiano sure let the defnse loose and LVD was a sack machine when schiano was running the defense
November 10th, 2017 at 9:48 am
You don’t need to run 3-4 to have Lavonte blitz. Bring him out of the 4-3 rush more than four lol!!! That’s the only way the Bucs are getting home!!!!
November 10th, 2017 at 9:58 am
DT’s to DE? Hmmm. Since we have nothing to lose another experiment I’d like to see is practicing and playing GMC at DE. Seems like his explosive getoff..his best asset might be a good thing….seems like if he’s used to manning up against double teams and all the Sumo wrestling and hitting that goes with that…that bull rushing a solitary OT might be easier?
So we rush LVD…and I’d also like to see some Ronde style rushes from VHG.
At this point if it was legal I’d have Koetter coming off the sidelines after the QB…we need to throw the kitchen sink at them…until we figure this our…getting pressure on the passer….our defense is dead in the water…I don’t care how talented you 3 technique tackle might be.
November 10th, 2017 at 10:07 am
Hey, it worked for Greg Schiano!
^^^ LMAO They were blitzing David last year though. It’s like the coaches forgot everything from last year. Not good.
November 10th, 2017 at 10:15 am
if they want to move a LB to DE to create rush how about moving D.Bond to DE….he was great at getting after the QB at OU….if NS58 was injured playing DE, what do you think will happen to LVD who smaller….I would rather risk DB59 at DE than LVD54….
and why wait until the season is over to try find ways to create a rush….they should’ve tried getting creative after CK lit us up in MINN….GO BUCS!!!
November 10th, 2017 at 10:18 am
just like one dimensional dungy wasted the great players whyce handed him in 99,55, 47 etc… The bucs organization has wasted LVD. he has not been consistent since schiano… neither lovie nor smith have figured out how to use him best.
November 10th, 2017 at 10:23 am
Even Darryl Revis will be soon exposed, w/o a pass rush.
This looks a lot like another “wait until next year” year for us.
Tampa almost needs a totally new football team.
Lately, we really suck, and it is just not the coaches and their schemes.
Our players suck, and are playing terribly.
It seems like every game we play, we are getting called out by the national media for being out of our Gaps, failing to turn the play inward, or blowing assignments.
November 10th, 2017 at 10:46 am
Somebody mentioned Joe Dirt earlier. He might have a hybrid role. Remember his biggest weakness is that he’s simply too slow to cover NFL LB pass responsibilities. But if he’s just in the game to go crazy and get a passer or stuff a runner…that might suit his talents.
November 10th, 2017 at 11:06 am
I’m starting to wonder if a 3-4 defense is the direction we need to go?
For one – 4-3 elite pass rushing DEs seem rare to find compared to 3-4 OLB/DE hybrid pass rushers.
Rushing the QB is the #1 goal on defense in today’s NFL. I’d rather have an elite pass rushing unit that may struggle vs the run; than a line that can hold up on the run but can’t rush the passer. I’d always rather prioritize D-lineman and pass rushers over CBs and Safeties. Get the pass rush going and see how well the secondary may look as a result. Then fill those cracks in.
813 I’m on a roll with agree’ing with you; in that we should just make GMC a pass rushing DE. His strength is his first step but not shedding blocks / holding the line really. Why not have him play that roll on the line in a 3-4? Does he not fit as a 3-4 DE? Move Baker in the middle and have GMC / Gholston or CM98 as the other lineman; then you can play Lavonte / Kwon at OLB for blitzes and Beckwith and whoever inside?
We could transform the defense pretty quickly next year if we wanted : Draft a badass nose tackle, another OLB/speed rusher, and another D-lineman that can play middle or end in a 3-4?
LDE – McCoy
NT – top 2 round draft pick
RDE – top 3-4 round draft pick
OLB – Noah Spence
ILB – Kwon Alexander
ILB – Lavonte David
OLB – top 2-3 round draft pick
Would also have flexibility/depth of moving Beckwith inside and either Kwon or David to OLB. Will Gholston could probably play DE in a 3-4? So we’d have some depth there. Would probably need to draft 2 NTs though to make sure we’re covered.
Make those moves; taking a NT/OLB/3-4DE, and a RB with your top 4 draft picks; playing the board as needed. Use picks 5-7 on O-lineman.
Sign a CB. Move VHIII to nickle permanently. Play the signed CB / Ryan Smith on outside with VHIII in nickle. Evans & whoever at S i don’t even care. I just want a pass rush.
Solid plan? LC for GM? Or is this a terrible idea lol
Would also be fine with moving McCoy for a couple high picks (maybe a 2 and 3; or just a 1 would be awesome); and executing the same plan basically but spending one of those McCoy picks on a 3-4 DE.
November 10th, 2017 at 11:13 am
LC
if 2 passionate fans can think of this, why cant people who get paid millions think of this….
but I think moving GMC for picks would be beast for this team….but i wouldn’t let licht make that move…he’ll probably give GMC away to a SB contender for a 7th round pick and a LB….lol…GO BUCS!!!
November 10th, 2017 at 11:19 am
lol yeah I just feel like moving GMC now before his play drops is a total Bellicheck move. He’s gonna be 30 in February and it’s not like he’s someone we all think is a bad4ss in the locker room that we need to mentor a draft pick.
I’d probably take a 2 and a 4 for him which I’d think is reasonable; but hope for a 2 and 3. I don’t think we’re going to get a 1 because he’s just too old. Brandin Cooks was traded for a late 1st and was a top 10 WR in like every stat and is only 24.
November 10th, 2017 at 11:42 am
Bond has ideal measurables for the linebacker position and untapped athleticism waiting to be used. He possesses natural athletic ability in his pass-rush sets and has the tools to beat college blockers to the ball.
Playing most often as a pass-rusher at OU, Bond will have to transition to a stand-up role on first and second downs. With average long speed and poor instincts, that move will take time. He does have the tools to bump down to a pass-rusher role on third down but may need to add strength and size first.
why aren’t we putting players in position to be successful?….obviously we have players on the roster that have experience in getting after the QB….why expose your best player on defense(LVD) to injury by forcing him to play a position he has no experience in….it makes no sense…
putting him at DE will make us weak against the run….I know if I were an OC, I would run right at him every time he’s lined up in the LOS at DE….GO BUCS!!!!
November 10th, 2017 at 11:48 am
Stud DT!! Hahahha! What a joke. He couldn’t get a sack in two hand touch. What games are you watching? He barely does anything. He’s had 1 good game all year. He’s a natural loser too. I’m not saying he’s the problem, but he sure as hell isnt the solution. Years of evidence proves that.
November 10th, 2017 at 11:59 am
I wish dirk knew lavonte is allowed to rush the passer no matter his position
November 10th, 2017 at 12:02 pm
Let’s put are tight end’s out on the edge! They’re big fast and strong! Can’t do any worse
November 10th, 2017 at 12:18 pm
how about letting riley bullough aka joe dirt try and fix our rb woes….
A two-year starter at middle linebacker for the Spartans, Bullough actually moved to tailback as a freshman, where he initially beat out current Chicago Bears running back Jeremy Langford for the starting job.
give him the ball….I bet he’ll average 4.5yards just off his high motor alone…GO BUCS!!!!
November 10th, 2017 at 12:22 pm
813bucboi:
I been wondering why we as fans can identify our problems but the higher ups cant figure it out. At this point I’m hoping they read the forums and take notes. I just want to be a competitive football team
November 10th, 2017 at 12:28 pm
Why not just draft or sign decent Edge Rushers?
November 10th, 2017 at 12:39 pm
Kansas
crazy aint it!!!!….GO BUCS!!!
November 10th, 2017 at 12:47 pm
Make LVD a QB spy and launch him. MSmith is a dumbbell for not doing so. There’s a good reason why Blank dumped him in Atlanta. You also have GMC, Kwonster and Beckwith. Experiment with pass rushing them. It will help produce turnovers, too. This ain’t a 2-6 team player-wise. Coaching-wise? Hmmmmmmm.
November 10th, 2017 at 12:59 pm
Lord C, I was with you right up until the ‘LC for GM’. At this point, what have we got to lose by changing things up? Bucs HAVE TO find a way to generate pressure on opposing QBs AND still be able to stop the run. It’s not an either/or … successful defenses MUST do both. Using primarily a 3-4 this Sunday, with Baker in the middle, GMC & McDonald on either side, plus putting Beckwith in the middle with Lavonte & Kwon on the outside and Bond/Glanton next to Beckwith could put our best 7 in there. Rotate in Russell & Siliga and voila … we couldn’t do any worse than we have been. Might even work.
Besides experimenting with the defense though, I think Bucs coaches also need to experiment with the offense. With Donovan & Dots hurting, might be a good time to try Hawley back in a Center, move Marpet back to Guard, Pamphile to LT (unless Donovan or Dots can play) & I’d try Benenoch or Wester at RT. Might be dicey trying that on Sunday, but if Donovan and Dots can’t go, what other choices do they have?
November 10th, 2017 at 1:04 pm
Was wondering about something else this AM (although it’s probably not at all doable): letting Dirk Koetter be JUST an OC, letting Smitty be HC until the end of this year, and letting Jay Hayes be DC. I’m still convinced that Dirk can be a very good OC IF that’s what he’s totally focused on, and Smitty has obviously had lots of HC experience. Promoting Jay Hayes to DC gives us a fresh set of eyes running the defense, and he’s obviously highly experienced. But like I said, probably not at all doable.
November 10th, 2017 at 1:20 pm
Look, I love that GMC is a top DT in the league. But, we are wasting his talent by continuing to run this defense. He is having little impact because of the scheme and talent around him. If we could get only 50% production out of GMC in a slightly different Scheme, but get consistent pressure, then why not do it?
Why not try it out? Let’s put him on the edge. We are not winning any games with him in the middle, why not lose a couple games with him on the edge?
And I am just going to say it. If the players are not willing to try something different to find a way to win? then they are not team players.
November 10th, 2017 at 3:10 pm
Good posts and I agree we need to be more creative with blitzes and games to get more consistent pressure (risk/reward so you have to manage the risk). But I’m not sure the only reason coach doesn’t want to go full 34 is because of McCoy. Not sure those words came out of his mouth, but if someone heard it please quote it…it would be odd. I did hear him say very few teams run a pure 34 and among 400 snaps he only saw the jets do so once. I think (my opinion) the reasons (plural) are that it takes a lot of practice to install. It’s not just the DLine…it’s the linebackers and safety keys. They are different than with a 43. BL is I think we can do some limited 34 and some increased 43 games to get more pressure. Hope to see it this week. Go Bucs!
November 10th, 2017 at 5:13 pm
@tmaxcon What strain are you smoking saying that Dungy wasted these guys careers.. DB55 639 tackles 12 ints 4 1/2 sacks 7 Pro Bowls 5 First Team All-Pro
#99 231 tackles 64 sacks 14 FF 5 Pro Bowls 4 First Team All-Pro
#47 426 tackles 5 1/2 sacks 6 FF 18 ints 4 Pro Bowls 2 First Team All-Pro
Look at there stats after Dungy…
November 10th, 2017 at 5:30 pm
We were laughing at Greg schiano this off-season about what he said but apparently he was right about our defensive line. He called it a mile away but there gm couldn’t see it….. Just shameful to even have to type this
November 11th, 2017 at 11:46 am
Would love to see what Rex Ryan could do as a DC with the players here esp a healthy spence
November 11th, 2017 at 11:47 am
Schiano was talking about his defensive line with Michael Bennett And McCoy on it smh, you know the guy we let walk to get rings