Kicking Game Killed Bucs
November 21st, 2017
Still haunts Bucs.
Sometimes, a mistake can fester for a long time. Sometimes, that mistake can prove very ugly.
Now Joe isn’t here to regurgitate the error of the Bucs when Roberto Aguayo was selected in the second round in 2016. The Bucs this summer washed their hands of him but the stench remains, even while the mistake has (finally) been resolved.
The ramifications, however, linger.
After the Dixie Chicks survived a late attempt by the Seahawks last night to send the game into overtime, Atlanta improved to 6-4. Per NFL.com, that 6-4 record, if the season ended today, would be good enough for a wild card berth.
Yes, Aguayo was bounced in preseason. His replacement, Nick Folk, may have been worse. He clearly cost the Bucs a win over New England missing three field goals in a 19-14 loss.
The Bucs would be 5-5 if they had beaten New England, right on the door step in the wild card race with four division games still to play.
It just goes to show how razor-thin it is in the NFL from being a winning team and a losing team. That a mistake of a transaction 19 months ago can still have such huge ramifications.
November 21st, 2017 at 11:16 am
Scapegoat that’s all this article is, the moment Nick folk was signed you were the first to come out bragging about this ONE great season he had and you look silly trying to back track
The Patriots came into that game with one of the worse defenses in the league at that point and like every single game this year koetter with all these weapons gets shut down
You’ve stopped bragging about all the passing yards this team has and how many yards Winston has thrown for since coming into the league. You refuse to look at stats that really count like how many touchdowns he has. Koetter is horrible in the rezone. The kicking game has been bad but what’s worse is how bad a koetter lead offense depends on field goals instead of touchdowns
November 21st, 2017 at 11:17 am
I have been saying that for a long time every time what’s sad was he missed kicks that were less than 40 yards that game.
November 21st, 2017 at 11:17 am
I have been saying that for a long time every time what’s sad was he missed kicks that were less than 40 yards that game.
November 21st, 2017 at 11:17 am
Good point. Too bad. Still a glimmer of hope.
November 21st, 2017 at 11:20 am
That new England game was lost on the kicking game, and again on a miscue. Howard in the end zone on a play that brate makes all the time, only one problem, brate always catches the ball to his right side which is where Winston threw it to. Oj went left……game over.
November 21st, 2017 at 11:24 am
It’s fester, “a mistake can fester for a long time” – like my first marriage for example.
November 21st, 2017 at 11:25 am
@notthereyet
BINGO MY FRIEND!!!!!
couldn’t have said it better!!!!!….
what happened to being the #1 passing team in the league….then it went to #2….now we don’t hear about it at all…..
one minute he post an article describing how awful the defense is and how its worst than lovie and after playing 2 sorry teams, the defense has turned the corner…..
the rams put up 30+ with ease with Robert woods, Sammy and copper kupp…..we can barely score 20 with evans, brate, djax, oj, hump, CG, sims….
instead of scapegoats, hold the coaches accountable…..bash them like you did the previous staff…..GO BUCS!!!!
November 21st, 2017 at 11:25 am
If we score TDs. We don’t have to worry as much about the kicking game. Don’t get me wrong every team needs a reliable kicker. But we’ve been horrible at scoring TDs this year. Especially in the red zone.
November 21st, 2017 at 11:33 am
I am always amazed at the idiocy of some of the Bucs fans.
November 21st, 2017 at 11:34 am
We passed on sooooooo many d lineman to draft him
Wow
November 21st, 2017 at 11:34 am
813buc
We were number 1 when jw was playing. He is not playing so it’s not the case anymore
But yea hold that Stick Carrier Godfather accountable. Koetter hasn’t doesn’t done a good job this year no matter the qb
November 21st, 2017 at 11:39 am
DB55 Says:
October 6th, 2017 at 10:13 am
I keep telling ya Jameis is NOT Koetters qb. Koetter likes pocket qbs and Jameis does his best work outside the pocket. Jameis doesn’t throw 40-50 attempts he throw 28-35 in desperation time. Koetter wants Matty ice back and can’t bring himself to change his old tattered playbook. But wtf do I know?
but I thought dirk was promoted because of his work with Winston in 2015?….I thought he did such a great job that they didn’t want to lose dirk and hinder winstons development?…..
are you suggesting dirk isn’t developing Winston the way he should?….and if the marriage isn’t working who do the bucs let go?…Winston or dirk?
I agree with you regarding Winston tho….I only want to see him throw the ball at a max 32 times….would love to keep him between 25-28 with him using the boot leg or roll out more often…..
if dirk uses the kicker in the ARZ game instead of going for 2 after our TD’s we could’ve had that game…..and with all the weapons we have, we couldn’t score 20 points vs the panthers….the kicker may have cost us 1 but dirk has cost us at least 2…..GO BUCS!!!!!
November 21st, 2017 at 11:51 am
If we hadn’t played 4 awful, sub .500 teams, we’d have a goose egg in the win column.
November 21st, 2017 at 11:52 am
The sad part is the fact that the Bucs passed on SS Vonn Bell for this BUM Kicker.
November 21st, 2017 at 11:58 am
Lakeland
SS Bell had a 50% chance of being a bust! You do not get to come here and cherry pick the 50% who made it AFTER the fact. When Licht was picking none of that was certain…again it’s a 50-50 crapshoot.
I often wonder what would be said right now if Aguayo was in the correct 50% and not the bust. What if he’d kicked several game winning FG’s and was on the way to being the next Janikowski? Hindsight is 20-20.
November 21st, 2017 at 12:00 pm
StPete
Place Kickers come a dime a dozen
You don’t waste a 2nd round pick on one
November 21st, 2017 at 12:01 pm
@StpeteBucsFan
Sorry dude, but Aguayo was objectively a bad pick. They could have taken ANYONE! And they still would have been a better pick than Aguayo.
Trading up for a kicker in the 2nd round when you have a roster laden with holes is just flat out stupid. And it may just cost Jason Licht his job.
November 21st, 2017 at 12:04 pm
If Lovie Smith had made that Bonehead move
We would still be hearing about it
Maybe for another 50 years
November 21st, 2017 at 12:14 pm
Every issue this team has starts with Licht…..he’s wasted too many valuable picks…and free agent signings. The Aguayo pick might not even be his worst if this thing with Winston gets messy…..I’ll repeat that…..A KICKER IN THE 2ND ROUND THAT IS NOW OUT OF THE LEAGUE, MIGHT NOT EVEN BE HIS WORST.
Not that shocking we suck.
November 21st, 2017 at 12:17 pm
If, If, If, If,If,
It’s time to start looking forward….I’m getting tired of looking back…..Bennett, etc.
I quit looking back when we drafted Bo Jackson #1.
Murray looks at least adequate.
Lets get a healthy Spence…..pick up a CB or DE in FA……draft a RB & DE high…..perhaps a LT……we have the makings of a great team….lots of young talent.
Doesn’t look like our FAs have paid off very well except Grimes…..let’s sign him to 10 or 15 more years….
Win Sunday….spoil the Falcons chances….embarrass them in their new stadium and start a QB controversy.
November 21st, 2017 at 12:21 pm
Just another reason Jason Licht should be handed his “walking papers” by the end of this year. In that scene on Hard Knocks he mentioned Aguayo being 3 of 7 and Folk was just 4 of 7 too. That should have told him they needed another kicker to battle Folk for the job after Aguayo was let go. Instead, Folk missed kicks 2 weeks in a row AND cost us the Patriots game. Why after starting 3-5 last year do we start slow at 2-6 again? It’s because the players weren’t playing ballz out and it cost them BIGTIME! What kind of players has Licht brought to the team? Losers, whiners, and malcontents is MOSTLY what I see. Players that give up easy a lot of times. Too bad we can’t get McKay back! #ThanksForTheMemories #WalkThePlank #BringBackMcKay
November 21st, 2017 at 12:32 pm
StPete, Blake and Lakeland won’t listen to facts (especially Lakeland). The dude who was actually drafted with that traded pick didn’t even make the final roster that year.
November 21st, 2017 at 12:36 pm
3 turnovers vs bills killed us too. Otherwise, thats a win
November 21st, 2017 at 12:48 pm
still have those 4 division games. the power to overtake the falcons is all with the bucs due to 2 head to heads. we’ll see how they handle the opportunity.
November 21st, 2017 at 12:51 pm
TouchDownTampaBay
The Kansas City Chiefs received 2 picks
CB KeiVarae Russell 3rd Round
CB Eric Murray 4th Round
KeiVarae Russell is no longer with the Chiefs
Eric Murray is still with the Chiefs
Roberto Aguayo, Carolina Practice Squad
November 21st, 2017 at 12:51 pm
every remaining game is against an NFC team currently ahead of the bucs. this is basically their playoffs, losing a game and the tiebreaker to any of those guys probably puts them on the outside
November 21st, 2017 at 12:52 pm
And that besides the point
When they moved up in the draft
Everyone thought it was for Vonn Bell
November 21st, 2017 at 1:07 pm
And a few kicks last year cost us the same fate ….
November 21st, 2017 at 1:12 pm
Actually when the Bucs drafted Amigo. They had a good PK on their roster. Connor Barth was the most accurate Place Kicker in Bucs history. They drafted Amigo and cut Connor Barth.
November 21st, 2017 at 1:38 pm
I almost threw up in my mouth when I saw that picture of Aguayo!
Kicking was ONE issue. We have had a myriad of issues to choose from this year. The biggest issue being an offense that can’t score TDs.
Trading for Aguayo will definitely remain in Buc lore as one of the dumbest moves in its long history of dumb moves. Sorry StPete!
November 21st, 2017 at 1:57 pm
@touchdown, it really doesn’t matter what another team did with the picks. They have different needs. No other m would do something so dumb.
November 21st, 2017 at 2:16 pm
And they still would have been a better pick than Aguayo.
Actually that’s not factually true Blake! There was a 50% chance he would have been a better pick at the time of the draft! A bust is a bust!!! I don’t care if it’s a kicker, QB,,DE whatever…if they don’t help your team they don’t help your team.
Now I do not get all those who devalue the position of kicking when we see what Vinateri and others have done. It’s not a fun position to cheer for…I get that…but as we’ve have seen already this year it’s literally the difference in winning or losing and how some of you can’t see that the difference between winning and losing three games a year is freaking worth a 2nd round pick just blows my mind!!!!
If I told you give me a second round pick and I’ll give you 2-3 more wins next year we’d all jump on that. And NO great kickers are not a dime a dozen anymore than great QB’s..OTs whatever. We are not the only team to go through kicking problems. We’ve watched Minnesota get tossed from the playoffs two years ago simply because their kicker couldn’t convert a gimme.
November 21st, 2017 at 2:26 pm
Licht needs to be pushed out the door with all the mistakes he has made with no vision
November 21st, 2017 at 2:43 pm
With what this team needed (talent) ….moving up in the second round to pick a kicker (with potential) …WAS A JACK-ASS MOVE…BY THE BACKSTABBER…trying to show everybody he knew best!! TAKE A KNEE!….KEEP AMERICA FREE!!
November 21st, 2017 at 3:17 pm
lol A few made FGs still wouldn’t make this team contenders.
Far from it at this point.
November 21st, 2017 at 3:25 pm
Amen PR! Still have a LOT of holes.
November 21st, 2017 at 4:07 pm
Let’s thank our “bold” GM for this idiotic move. He gave up a 4th round pick (acquired from moving down 2 spots to pick Hargreaves) as well to move up to pick Aguayo. Just think of the defensive help Bucs could have had by picking someone other than Hargreaves in the 1st round, someone other than Aguayo in the 2nd and an additional 4th round pick. He also picked Spence in the 2nd round. All wasted picks! Let’s not forget he picked the wrong QB as well.
November 21st, 2017 at 4:30 pm
The kicker was perfect in the Buffalo game ;(
We had too many injuries in the Minny game
Could have beaten Carolina, but had too many penalties, overthrown balls, drops, etc.
Yada-yada
November 21st, 2017 at 4:35 pm
What is true is that a competent kicker would have us at 5-5.
Take away the Hump fumble, then we’re 6-4. But, we’re not…
#perception
November 21st, 2017 at 5:44 pm
I watched Matt Bryant put on a kicking clinic last night ensuring victory for his team.
Can somebody remind me again why we let that guy go? I wanna say injury but that’s no reaso to cut a franchise kicker………And sorry if you don’t like the term franchise kicker but that’s what he should have been.
Letting that guy go has cost us well of a dozen wins and cost its fans extreme embarassment.
Pretty sure it was Dominick who cut him and that was a losers thought. One thing I will say about Licht is that he values those 3 points which is critical of a GM. And yes he hasn’t been able to figure out how to get a good kicker in here so you have to blame him for poor evaluation……..But I will always defend the Agaryo pick because he identified a huge need and did every thing in his power to fix it. It just so happens that kicker evaluation has never been in his power. I blame the evaluation not the pick.
November 21st, 2017 at 5:48 pm
And don’t anybody say we should have won that NE game cause you shouldn’t win a game when you need FGs and you have a scrub kicking for you……Not to mention if we even do make our FGs you change the game situation for many of the possessions that Bellicheck gets to play. Blaming the kicker is a cop out…….There was more to that game then just kicking. We lost and we deserved to lose.
November 21st, 2017 at 5:48 pm
Sorry Stpete, but you’re just wrong here dude.
Aguayo would’ve had to be near perfect from any range in order to even come close to being worth his draft status.
You can get a very, very, very good kicker off the street. Like the guy you mentioned as being super valuable. Adam Vinatieri was a proud kicker for the Amsterdam Admirals before signing as an undrafted free agent with New England.
I am of the mindset that the three positions that you should almost NEVER spend a draft pick on are Kicker, Punter, and Long Snapper. Sure, SeaBass has been a great kicker for the Raiders, but he was certainly hasn’t been any kind of transformative player for them, and definitely not worth a 1st round pick, no kicker is.
That pick could have been used on Yannick Ngakoue, or Vonn Bell and we’d be in a much better spot. Or it could have been used on another player who busted out. And it would have been an understandable miss, that happens.
But to trade up, and take a kicker who turned out to be a head case in the 2nd round of a really deep draft, that’s just flat out unacceptable.
November 21st, 2017 at 7:22 pm
Blake…..I gotta disagree. Any draft pick that provides an impact on the field was a successful pick regardless of the position.
Quality kicking is a key part to success. You can draft a good kicker in the draft and that’s every bit as good as getting one off the streets…….just like you can find any position player off the streets.
As much as you want to say you can get a quality K off the streets you can also get a subpar K the same way……..As much as you want to say we could have drafted a better player with that #2 pick we just as easily could have drafted a bust.
What does matter is not which position they play but what impact they have and how long they provide that impact. All’s that matters is the evaluation and if they actually make an impact………That gets proven on the field not of ratings or draft status.
The evaluation o Arguaryo was bad, simple as that. If it was right nobody would have a problem with the pick. Very rarely does a kicker come long to be talked about as a pick and a desperate team will always be there willing to reach on it because of the importance of the 3 points……..Maybe next time that kicker works out and will leave no senond guessing
November 21st, 2017 at 7:36 pm
The bottom line is if you can turn your kicking game from one of the worst in the league to one of the best at the expense of one 2nd round pick then it’s well worth it…….The history of what impact 2nd round picks truely have in the league dictates that……….If the history of second round picks suggested that they are worth a top end player 90% of the time then selecting a kicker would be foolish……not to mention a kicker wouldn’t even be in the conversation like Argaryo was.
The reality is just that 2nd round picks don’t have the impact Bucs fans wish to believe they are. All that matters is the evaluation, they thought Argaryo would impact the team. They were wrong, get over it. I don’t hear anybody crying about how poor of a pick Spence has been…..or dozens of other 2nd round choices this franchise has made. Draft status means nothing after that day in April. Bucs fans need to stop obsessing about one choice…..Any single second round choice has never or will never make or break any GM or his team.
November 21st, 2017 at 7:53 pm
I still think Roberto will get his head together and have a career in the NFL. He should be a lesson to us all that sometimes things just don’t work out despite everyone trying to make it work.
November 21st, 2017 at 7:57 pm
Jo mi amigo, senior Himmy Hack, ju are talkin out of jour Culo.
If you don’t recall the reason why are kicking game was so bad in 2015, it was because *ahem* Jason Licht decided it was a good idea to trade for this guy named Kyle Brindza, after Patrick Murray, who was money in 2014, got hurt. Instead of just rolling with the solid, proven guy in Connor Barth. Licht wanted to prove how smart he was by trading for a kid with a big leg.
So you see, the nature of how crappy the kicking game was in 2015 was just an Illusion. There was absolutely zero justification for drafting a kicker in the 2nd round. All Licht had to do was wait for Pat Murray to get healthy.
This entire ordeal, all of it, including up to the Nick Folk debacle, it all stems back to Jason Licht trying way to hard to find the magic fix for a problem that wasn’t even really there. All he had to do was plug in Barth, and wait for Murray to get healthy.
Drafting a kicker period, let alone trading up for one in the 2nd round, when you have massive needs on both sides of the ball, is down right irresponsible. And currently stands as the biggest stain on JL’s resume.
November 21st, 2017 at 8:01 pm
Oh and I don’t know what kind of history of the NFL you have concocted in your head, but team’s absolutely can and do find impact players in the 2nd round of the draft nearly every year. Yes it comes down to evaluation and player selection, but that is true for every draft pick of every round ever.
November 21st, 2017 at 9:18 pm
What’s irresponsible was the evaluation which proved to be wrong.
And your right about Licht botching our kicker situation with those bad decisions.
But it ain’t about me concocting anything in my head…..The history of second round draft picks over the entire history of the league proves that second round picks are no sure fire thing to make an impact…….In fact they have smaller chance of having a sustained impact then not.
So if you see a kicker that you believe will transform your kicking game and can sustain there’s nothing wrong with pulling the trigger. Just like with any pick it has to produce to make it a good pick.
It’s just sour grapes man………..They made a big move for a kicker cause they believed in the guy. It didn’t work out, happens all the time with second rounders. Tampa fans just make way to big a deal about this one pick.
Picks don’t work out that’s part of the deal. More important then worring about one pick(out of how many? 50+?) it’s more important to worry about the ones that actually do work out………..Its ridiculous to worry about if you picked Kwon in the fourth or Keuchly in the first. All that matters is getting an impact via the draft. After the draft only the players matter not the rounds.
November 21st, 2017 at 11:37 pm
Blah blah blah, water is wet, fire is hot.
What a bundle of wisdom you are.
November 22nd, 2017 at 2:21 am
Letting a mistake fester–no doubt. kinda like how they let Hargreaves go from very bad to a game wrecker before doing anything about that. Relying on Noah Spence for our edge rush after major shoulder surgery, who took his place?–I don’t know them. No I do not have confidence in Koetter–he refused to address the problem with Hargreaves until we lost games over it–kid still can’t ball–put a poll up on Jason Licht–next coach change he should go also.
November 22nd, 2017 at 5:03 am
#BlumpkinPie for all the Bucs if we do not beat #Hotlanta
November 22nd, 2017 at 9:32 am
Blake_Bucsfan Says:
November 21st, 2017 at 12:01 pm
@StpeteBucsFan
Sorry dude, but Aguayo was objectively a bad pick. They could have taken ANYONE! And they still would have been a better pick than Aguayo.
Trading up for a kicker in the 2nd round when you have a roster laden with holes is just flat out stupid. And it may just cost Jason Licht his job.
Completely agree with you on this Blake. This and everything else you’ve commented on this post. A second round pick on a kicker is a wasted pick. I believe Licht is a tool when it comes to talent evaluating both on rookies and free agents. We haven’t had a good talent evaluating GM since Rich McCay. I have zero confidence in this regime, the entire front office and the coaching staff. Koetter needs to stick to what he’s good at, being an offensive coordinator. You know I’m still looking for all this so call talent on this joke of a team. Other than a handful of guys on this team, the rest of the roster blows and are here for a paycheck. This abortion of a season makes me sick, but then again this is the same repulsive feeling I felt about this team going into this season……unlike a lot of you I don’t believe in this roster and completely see the glaring lack of talent we have on this team. I look at this team as a true fan, not a homer wearing pewter and red colored glasses.