Jameis At Heart Of Dirk Koetter’s Future
November 6th, 2017
Ira Kaufman is the most beloved, revered and esteemed Buccaneers columnist in town. He has hung his hat at JoeBucsFan.com world headquarters since July 2016. Tampa Bay’s only Pro Football Hall of Fame voter, Ira busts out columns here every Monday, Wednesday and Friday, and his award winning podcasts fire Tuesdays and Thursdays. You can also see Ira every football Sunday at 10:30 a.m. on FOX-13, Scott Smith’s Tailgate Sunday.
BY IRA KAUFMAN
These are the hardest knocks Jameis Winston has ever experienced as a football player.
You can see it in his face and you can hear it in his voice as he tries to explain this train wreck of a season.
Some fans, maybe more than a few, are turning on Winston in his hour of despair, suggesting the Bucs should draft a quarterback with a first-round pick that now looks like Top-5 material.
Let’s get real. Winston isn’t going anywhere — except to a meeting with the Glazers to discuss Dirk Koetter’s future. Despite his struggles, Winston remains the primary reason to believe this franchise can reward its frustrated fan base with some dynamic football in the future.
Unfortunately, that future isn’t now, and Winston must take his fair share of the blame.
“I’ve got to do my job better,” he says. “I’m not doing good enough.”
Can’t argue with you there, No. 3.
Instead of elevating his game with a better supporting cast, Winston has regressed in 2017. Even before he hurt his right shoulder in Arizona, Winston wasn’t playing good enough. More specifically, he still can’t connect downfield. Through eight starts, he has only two completions of 40 yards or more.
Two.
Relationship Will Be Everything
Jacoby Brissett has six. C. J. Beathard has three. Anybody calling either of those two working stiffs a franchise quarterback?
Winston has the same number of deep connections as Mitch Trubisky and Kevin Hogan — and I don’t see a DeSean Jackson on Chicago or Cleveland.
“I don’t think I’m doing a good job to put our offense in position to score,” Winston says. “I’m not playing good enough.”
Koetter’s relationship with Winston is at the heart of the matter for the Glazers. They waited two decades to land a potential star under center and they’re not going to walk away from the No. 1 overall pick in the 2015 draft.
They still believe in Winston, so the question is simple: does Winston still believe in Koetter? If ownership decides Koetter isn’t the right man to develop Winston, he’s gone.
One of Koetter’s major issues right now is his offense looked a lot better when he was a coordinator, setting a franchise record for yards during Winston’s rookie season.
Since Koetter ascended to head coach, Tampa Bay’s ground game has lost its spark, topping the 100-yard mark only nine times in 24 games. In 2015, the Bucs ran for at least 100 yards 12 times.
Ground Zero
That lack of complementary football has hurt Winston’s production, but he hasn’t helped himself with poor decisions and inaccurate throws.
The Glazers have hard decisions to make about a football team that is glaringly soft. Both lines need a serious upgrade and this secondary isn’t nearly good enough.
Although he hasn’t stepped up, Winston isn’t stepping out. Even if he sits out the rest of the season, his take on the locker room and the executive suite will have a major impact on ownership.
When his day was done on Sunday in New Orleans, Winston turned instigator, triggering an ugly sideline incident. It won’t be the last time he’ll find himself in the middle of some upheaval around these parts.
November 6th, 2017 at 2:44 pm
It was a stupid and immature thing for him to do to poke Lattimore. Completely unbecoming of an NFL starting QB.
November 6th, 2017 at 2:51 pm
Licht likes to cut his mistakes quickly…That includes ALL players I hope because they need to have a long look at “South Americas QB”…The expected progress is not there and a handful of younger QBs show much more than JameMISS…10+ years of this Franchise QB? That’s pure torture, even for long time Bucs fans…
November 6th, 2017 at 2:55 pm
He’ll be fine
November 6th, 2017 at 2:56 pm
Winston may be able to improve his poor decision making but can he become a more accurate qb?Why does he get a pass with so many really good weapons available and such poor throws?.. Bucs need a qb that is better then middle of the pack or below.
November 6th, 2017 at 3:00 pm
******
JOE, I need to call you out for sloppy reporting!
BEFORE the injury, Winston and the Bucs were 2-2 and should have been 3-1 if Folk had just made his chippie FG’s against the Pats … AND … at that point, Winston was on pace for exactly 4,792 yards, 28 TDs and just 12 picks … he was putting up career numbers across the board and was “progressing” just fine.
The next week he was hurt and the season went to crap with 6 straight losses.
Don’t push sloppy reporting or use lazy media narratives as those are two things I can’t stand!
******
November 6th, 2017 at 3:05 pm
Good takes Ira.
Glazers will ride the Jameis Winston train to its destination – wherever that may be.
Ultimately – they will be rewarded for that decision I believe.
But all things Buccaneers – are a mess right now and the owners have got some major sorting out to do…
November 6th, 2017 at 3:08 pm
dynamic football in the future ?! What a statement. Fans want dynamic football? We want faking wins man WINS 🙂
November 6th, 2017 at 3:15 pm
*************
Further to the above, it seems to me that Jameis is getting crucified for playing through the injury and trying to tough it out rather than just take the season off ala Andrew Luck or take games off ala Marcus Mariota and many other QBs.
Had Jameis been sat for the past 4 weeks and the the Bucs lost all 4 games … NO ONE other than the nonsensical loons would be bashing Jameis as the FACT would be that when Jameis was healthy and playing the team was 2-2 and should have been 3-1 and that he was on pace for 4,792 yards,28 TDs and 12 picks … numbers which anyone would be thrilled with for any QB not named Brady or Rodgers.
However, instead of sitting and resting his shoulder the last 4 games, he tried to play through the injury and now everyone is ripping the kid … it’s idiotic.
Do people not remember some of the atrocious performances Favre had when playing injured, or the atrocious performances Peyton Manning and Roethlisberger and Elway and many others had when dealing with even lesser injuries than Jameis is now?
People have no perspective and don’t seem able to frame things in a historical context, so they resort to all manner of nonsense … so sad.
*************
November 6th, 2017 at 3:19 pm
****************************
If the Bucs fire Koetter and Licht and hand the keys of the kingdom over to a new coach, and he doesn’t want Jameis, there are a ton of AFC teams that would give the Bucs a King’s ransom of picks for Jameis including the Broncos, Jets, Browns … and if the Bucs will absord the salaries of their current starting QBs in the trade you can add the Ravens, Dolphins and Chargers to that list as well.
As a Jameis fan, if he has to go to an AFC team I’d prefer to see him traded to the Broncos as that is an actual quality organization rather than the dog & pny show that is Tampa Bay …
Regardless, as I see it, IF the Bucs tank the season they can go one of a couple directions:
1. Trade Jameis for a boatload of picks (say a 1st, 2nd, 3rd this year and a 1st next year) and draft a new franchise QB (likely Wyoming’s Josh Allen or Lousiville’s Lamar Jackson as I expect Darnold and Rosen to be off the board) with their first pick and fill roster holes with the rest.
2. Trade Jameis for a boatload of picks AND sign a free agent QB like Cousins or Garappolo and then use ALL of the picks to build up the roster, including the two first rounders on Bradley Chubb and perhaps Mike McGlinchey if Saquon Barkley is off the board.
3. Keep Jameis and use the pick
Now, even as a massive believer that JW will make the Hall of Fame one day, even I know that TEAMS and not QBs win rings and so I couldn’t fault Tampa fans for salivating at the 2nd option as Cousins is solid enough to win a ring on a LOADED team and a team with TEN picks in the 1st-3rd rounds over the next 2 years which a Jameis trade could achieve could indeed be a LOADED team!
*************
November 6th, 2017 at 3:21 pm
They still believe in Winston, so the question is simple: does Winston still believe in Koetter? If ownership decides Koetter isn’t the right man to develop Winston, he’s gone.
One of Koetter’s major issues right now is his offense looked a lot better when he was a coordinator, setting a franchise record for yards during Winston’s rookie season.
^^BINGO^^
I believe Winston has lost faith in dirk and realizes dirk is an OC at best….IMO Winston made dirk look better than he was in 2015….
regarding dirk being better at OC, its obvious he did better because lovie wanted to run the ball….that’s no secret….
get a real coach in here that can get Winston and this team to the next level….GO BUCS!!!!
November 6th, 2017 at 3:22 pm
He threw all week…why did he play if he’s injured? that’s not helping the team win by playing injured…Too many excuses made for Winston…ugly trends continue with him…JACKSON is running down the sideline wide open at least once every week and he can’t hit it…
November 6th, 2017 at 3:26 pm
JW is not and will never be the saviour at QB the front office thinks. He has no maturity or accuracy and lacks on field decision making skills as well. Bucs should follow the Eagles blueprint and ship all the high priced malcontents out and draft a QB with a good head on his shoulders. They shipped out Bradford to get Wentz and its paying dividends. Get rid of Ward, GMC, Martin, Donovan Smith and yes, Winston and get a Sam Darnold, Dlinemen and DBs in the draft and a coach and GM that know what they’re doing.
November 6th, 2017 at 3:27 pm
Nothing wrong w/ Jameis that some growing up and decent coaching up can’t help. It’s ridiculous to even contemplate that an NFL team would give up on a guy this young and talented to take a flier on some kid from college. Not gonna happen. The D needs some serious overhaul and a dose of real leadership of the Hardy Nickerson, Mike Singletary, Ray Lewis variety. They desperately need a guy that hates to lose and won’t take it. One that makes guys accountable. The O-line needs a little fire like that too. Every one associated with this current team seems OK with losing. I don’t hear anything to dispute that. just crickets.
November 6th, 2017 at 3:37 pm
NFLNUT
the dumbest thing the glazers can do is allow a coach or GM to trade Winston….if the JAGS haven’t traded BLAKE BROTLES, why on earth would we trade JW….you get a coach in here that will find a way to win with the talent we have now….and the talent we have now aint bad at all….
if we’re looking for picks, trade GMC and LVD(I would hate to let him go but he would bring back at least a 2nd round pick)….then trade down from #4 to maybe #10….we would have a boat load of picks for the NEW COACH to work with….GO BUCS!!!!
November 6th, 2017 at 3:37 pm
pelbuc … you want Sam Darnold? You do know that Darnold is compared to Jameis more than anyone else right? That Darnold throws a ton of picks and takes wild chances and has a never-say-die attitude and trusts he can make every throw even when he can’t, right? Darnold is just a white Jameis … if you bash Jameis but want the white Jameis, me thinks you have some hidden racist tendencies …
November 6th, 2017 at 3:37 pm
Do we suspect the Glazers learn from history? A significant number of Buc fans certainly do not.
So…what do Doug Williams…Steve Young…Trent Dilfer and Vinnie Testeverde and Jameis Winston have in common? All five…first round draft picks…franchise QB’s.
There are three SB winners in that group and Testeverde made it to the AFC championship in a 20 year career…#3 has NOTHING in common with that…yet?
So will #3 join them in another attribute….a franchise QB run out of town prematurely by moronic Buc fans only to win their SB’s elsewhere.
Yeah that’s the ticket let’s ship #3 so he can win somewhere else…those 4000 yards each of the last years would possibly be appreciated by a different fan base.
November 6th, 2017 at 3:39 pm
And people want to know why I’m so hard on out Bucs? Any smart organization..Smart..mine you..would go ahead and put Jameis on IR and let him have his shoulder surgery so he can be ready for spring trng. But not the Bucs, they are gonna rest him for 2 games, and then let him even further aggrevate his shoulder causing even more downtime going into next season. And you guys wanna know why we are losers? If I were the Glazers, I’d call Jameis in and sneak him the Gruden playbook and have him start studying now. PLEASE FIRE KOETTER AND SMITTY. Smitty can sit in the press box and eat burgers with another team!!! Watch the crowd go into a frenzy chant of, WE WANT GRUDEN..during his induction at Ray-Jay..nough said. (I’m GD sick and tired of the SOB’S (same ole Bucs!)
November 6th, 2017 at 3:48 pm
************************
813bucboi,
A new coach will probably only sign a contract if he’s told he can have the QB he wants … if he doesn’t want Jameis, he’s not signing that contract imho.
Now, I agree with you that the Bucs will be idiotic to trade Jameis as I believe he’ll make the HOF one day … but … if Harbaugh wants to coach the team, sign Cousins and trade Jameis for a boatload of picks to make Tampa a LOADED team, I doubt the Glazers say no to him …
As for Bortles, Bortles was benched multiple times and the team had given up on him … enter Tom Coughlin … he drafted Fournette, signed Calais, Bouye and instantly turned the Jags into a defensive and ground-n-pound monster … now all Bortles has to do is throw off play-action to wide open guys like Mariota … Coughlin made the game extremely easy for him … he’s still not very good but you don’t have to be very good to win games on a team with a dominant defense and a great rushing attack.
However, ALL coaches will view Jameis as a 4-5k guy and a guy to build an offense around just as they did with Fouts, Marino and Moon … and Jameis may never be given a great rushing attack or defense as the salary cap forces teams to focus on one side of the ball for the most part … it’s sort of a catch-22.
One can always look back and say, “Imagine what Fouts and Marino could have done with the Steel Curtain or even Montana’s 49ers defenses” … but one can also say, “Imagine the stats a young Brady or a Russell Wilson could have put up had they had great receivers to throw to their whole careers” … no QB gets a “perfect” situation … Brady, Montana and Bradshaw probably had the three best situations of all time and Tarkenton, Fouts, Marino and Moon may have had four of the worst situations of all time, but ALL 7 of those guys are first ballot HOF’ers despite all 3 of the 7 ever winning a single ring.
I’d love to see Jameis in a perfect situation or even a Brady/Montana/Bradshaw situation … but that isn’t very realistic as Tampa is a small market team with little history and the organization has never proven they can sustain success for very long at all … the organization is far closer to the Browns and Lions than to the Patriots and Steelers.
*****************************
November 6th, 2017 at 3:51 pm
Jameis a hall of famer?
He can barely hit an open receiver these days. Even before being “hurt”
I want some of those drugs man. wow
November 6th, 2017 at 3:54 pm
^ Jameis has more CAREER passing yards & TD passes than Favre, Brady, Brees, Rodgers and Matt Ryan ALL HAD COMBINED at the same age … yes, Jameis will be a HOF’er in the future, I have very little doubt about that. That doesn’t mean he’ll ever win a ring though as maybe the 3 best pure passers ever (Fouts, Marino and Moon) NEVER won a single ring … they all made the HOF though
November 6th, 2017 at 3:58 pm
The problem with this team isn’t coaching… its the players. We have the 2 most childish leaders leading this team. Jameis leading the O and Mccoy, who is a nice guy (way to nice) leading the D when he’d rather be home playing xbox and comic books. Did you see djax in the backround when Jameis was talking eating w’s… his face was like is the guy serious with the highschool crap… we are fallowing this guy?
November 6th, 2017 at 3:59 pm
NFLnut…….your making bad comparisons because Winston is lacking the Mentality to lead men and is showing immutarity.
Once Winston gets that part down then it’s time for those comparisons.
Some say it’s coaching others say he can’t figure it out.
Jamies is a leader but not at a true pro level like the other guys you mentioned. He still has more to prove. You are jumping the gun.
November 6th, 2017 at 4:05 pm
I don’t think any team will offer no more than a 2nd or 3rd round pick for Jameis
November 6th, 2017 at 4:16 pm
Gruden.
November 6th, 2017 at 4:21 pm
Lets not forget who the head coach was when dirk was having twelve 100 yd rushing games in a season. Lovie made him run the ball more often. Im no lovie fan but it sure helped the offense. Too bad he couldnt help his own defense. Since Dirk is calling his own shots his o and d lines have gone soft from lack of practice. Cant run the ball if they try n try. Dirk is a good coordinator, bad head coach. Not the man for the job. For those who think you cant fire a coach every 2 years, oh yes you can. Until you find one worth keeping longer. Any other job in america wont put up with bad work over 2 months, better yet 2 years. Lets stop going cheap and get a real head coach. One who likes to practice tackle football, one who knows when to use timeouts, go for 2, use a challenge, discipline his players etc etc etc. This guy is inexcusable right now. The fact he will get to coach 8 more games is too nice. Boooooooooooo. Oh and jameis will be fine. Accuracy issues of course, needs plenty of work in a different system. Stop throwing the damn ball out of bounds tho, now thats frustrating. Boooooooooooo
November 6th, 2017 at 4:30 pm
Where’s the crazy fans claiming Winston was second best qb in the division. Got to root for him that’s who we chose but don’t have to suck him off. Demand better from our quarterback and stop hyping up players who are average compared to the entire league, that does for GMC also
November 6th, 2017 at 4:56 pm
Beginning to think there may be a liittle too much tinkering by Licht with the
roster.
The O-line is not run blocking that well. Thats puzzling since,we are supposed to have a bunch of road graders.Have they lost their identity because Jason thinks he would be a good center.I won’t speak to that, but he has more bad snaps than EDS who I thought was a problem.
The wasted year on Ryan Smith also at safety is questionable.He looks to be turning it around with some playing time at corner.
Defense Rules mentioned that we could have had Alvin Kamara or Kareem Hunt instead of Justin Evans who seems like a big reach at this point.
His bridge players are not playing as well, struggling to get on the field or injured.
While desean jackson is a proven player, Swaggy and TJ ward have not panned out so far.
November 6th, 2017 at 4:58 pm
EDit : Was talking about the Marpet move in first paragraph.
November 6th, 2017 at 5:10 pm
Think I see 3 camps evolving here: (1) Keep Jameis; (2) Trade Jameis; (3) Cut GMC (that’s for you tmaxcon). I’m solidly in the ‘Keep Jameis’ camp. Have said for weeks that he’s been playing hurt; don’t know that impacted his accuracy, but it sure didn’t help & made the frustration of not performing well even worse I’m confident. Jameis has ‘issues’ to be sure … just like every player in the NFL. None are perfect, but he’s shown enough in 2 1/2 years here to remain a keeper. At this point however, I personally think he’s too young to be anointed as THE LEADER of this team (also think the same thing about Kwon by the way).
Drew Brees, sly fox that he is, used the run & short passing to dissect the Bucs yesterday. Hard to sack a QB when he’s either handing off to a RB or 3-step-drop and fire the quick, short pass. Brees threw 27 passes & connected on 22 of those (81%). Guess what … only 2 of those 27 were deep passes (he connected on 1). The remaining 25 passes were all short, and he connected on 21 of them (84%). Add in 32 rushes for 151 yds and you have a recipe for dissecting the Bucs (we couldn’t stop the rush or the short pass & the Saints knew it). And oh ya, Brees focused on Michael Thomas (8-for-11) and Alvin Kamara (6-for-7). Jameis (and Fitz) spread the ball around to 10 different receivers.
Lack of a running game has definitely hurt Jameis. Too many mouths to feed doesn’t seem to be helping either, and Dirk’s love of ‘explosive plays’ & deep passes hasn’t helped. Somebody needs to start preaching P-A-T-I-E-N-C-E to this staff. Would love to go back & see how many times throwing deep (on any down) has resulted in us ultimately having to punt (or worse) on that series of downs. My gut tells me it’s the root cause of a lot of our 3-and-outs.
November 6th, 2017 at 5:16 pm
I really think the answer on Jameis lies somewhere in the middle…..he is good enough to take us to the SB……but not good enough to carry the team on his back….he needs a good running game and a very good defense.
With those the team can absorb his errors.
As for his downfield inaccuracy……stop doing it so often…..throw shorter passes….we have all sorts of weapons…..speed in the slant…..possession receivers and TEs….
I have maintained that Koetter’s gameplans and playcalling has been bad….I stick to my opinion on that until he proves differently.
November 6th, 2017 at 5:28 pm
The head coach should have sat Jameis for a week, two weeks ago. Let him heal, and get back on the field full strength. Was Koetter allowing him to play for Jameis’ benefit, or for Koetter’s?
November 6th, 2017 at 5:42 pm
TBBF
Largely agree with your take but I perhaps still have higher hopes for #3.
First off maturity is not a fixed attribute. It changes with time and experience. #3 has a lot of time yet to mature…something I agree needs to happen.
I do not get all sturm and drang over #3’s accuracy. Even with that horrid outing Sunday he’s still at 61.4%…tied at 22nd with Carson Palmer and within 1% of Andy Dalton, Dak Prescott and Cam.
#3 has improved his accuracy over each of his first three years. And yeah it’s an excuse but #3 is freaking snakebit right now. Perfect bomb to DJAX…TD…called back…nobody counts that throw but he did execute…he hit DJAX with another bomb which was dropped and I’ve lost count of how many passes ME13 has dropped and even the sure handed Brate has dropped a couple.
This entire mess has plenty of culprits!!!
November 6th, 2017 at 5:43 pm
TBBF
But if I read you correctly you’re saying #3 is at least as good as Dilfer and Testeverde if not Young.
November 6th, 2017 at 5:51 pm
I don’t believe Jameis will ever be a true franchise QB. The book on him coming out of college was accuracy and inconsistency. Three years later, what are we still talking about? He is who he is. I’m ready to move on.
November 6th, 2017 at 6:03 pm
I would add Jameis to the deep pass fan club .The deep pass to Evans between
two defenders that is repeated all to often was a Jameis call accordig to Koetter last year. I would agree that Koetter should just say no. what puzzles me is
there have been reports that Jameis pre game throws and Practices have been crisp.Why is that when a defense steps on the field passes are frequently
thrown in difficult places for the receiver to catch and continue the play.He threw two great passes that I will credit him with: The OJ screen and the pass where he led Evans properly. Now the out routes to Evans and DJax I think jameis has thrown well in the past ,but the pass to Evans was too high and DJax had even less chance since his sailed out of bounds.
There just may be a few too many thoughts swirling around in his head when he attempts a pass. Protecting the ball and giving his receiver the best chance at catching the ball has to become more natural to him or else he may be forced to become a game manager.
November 6th, 2017 at 6:32 pm
The Bucs Players and coaches owe the fans one thing this season: AN APOLOGY!!! In a show of unity they should use their platform to apologize to each and every fan for once again breaking our hearts. We show up every year even though the team doesn’t. In a show of unity the Bucs players and coaches should link arms before a home game, pass a microphone from one player to the next and apologize to us. They owe us that much for their consistent poor performance year after year.
November 6th, 2017 at 6:33 pm
I can’t believe all of you JW defenders. The guy piles up garbage time stats. All you guys can point to is yards. How about wins? he is 17-23 as a starter. Here are the QB’s I would take over Winston(in no order):
Brady
Rogers
Rothlisberger
Cousines
Prescott
Manning
Wilson
Wentz
Goff
Brees
Ryan
Smith
Newton(same accuracy issues but cam can run)
Watson
Flacco
That’s 15 QB’s ahead of Winston.
no way we should pay this guy ~$30mil in two years. Let’s draft a QB in the draft the next two years and see if we can find a much less expensive AVERAGE QB, Because that is what Winston is, AVERAGE!
November 6th, 2017 at 6:37 pm
bucs-imo, you are correct. JW is not and never will be a franchise QB
November 6th, 2017 at 6:38 pm
Nfl nut
Jameis is hall of famer and now you compare him to Brees , Brady and Rodgers. Because of early career stats? Those stats also show second highest turnover machine since he came out. All players should be measured by wins. I know he is young but no excuses in year three. His number is 3. And he put up 3 points last game and 3 points this game. (Maybe I am onto something. )
Brees , Brady and Rodgers eat W’s in real life. Jameis just pretends on his fingers.
Starting to think you are part of his inner circle or something.
Hey. I truly mean great kid and he will do amazing things after football. Just worried about was he is doing now. Bad bad bad. Hope he figures it out in his head cause he has all the talent in the world
Ps- I would still like those amazing drugs you are taking
November 6th, 2017 at 6:53 pm
I think the odds of Jameis developing into a true franchise QB are slim, unless you mean a mediocre QB leading a mediocre team. I don’t think he has the smarts, maturity or leadership skills. It was all supposed to happen this year, but now it’s “No, a few more years are needed.” Meanwhile other young QBs are entering the league and putting JW to shame, and this will continue every year while the Bucs wait for Winston to mature…
November 6th, 2017 at 7:00 pm
Jameis Winston will be an NFL coach killer, getting several head coaches fired while never living up to what to what people think is his potential.
November 6th, 2017 at 7:32 pm
Jameis pre game throws and Practices have been crisp.Why is that when a defense steps on the field passes are frequently
thrown in difficult places for the receiver to catcH
—————–
I think you just answered your own question. He is shook behind that line. You get hit 260+ Times and see how you feel. When he has time to throw, he accurate to everyone but Djax, his wr drop passes and his oline get called for holding on every big play. What more you guys want? He’s Andrew Luck 2.0 simple as that.
No oline, no running game, no defense. Has to win on his own or lose every game. How do you not see this?
November 6th, 2017 at 9:05 pm
@DB55 if he’s really that shook then his career is as good as done.
See: David Carr
November 6th, 2017 at 9:25 pm
As stated before. …Atlanta moved on from both these Coaches for a reason.
Dirk/K – Failed** at Coaching JW ….this was Manifest this season, …as JW was all over the page.
The decision to not start Fitzpatrick in Buffalo after He rescued the Bucs from humiliation Vs Cardinals. .
Well, cost the Bucs 3 losses afterwards. …2 which were Season define events.
JW was hurt in Buffalo and was totally crap in next 2 games.
The Team had to win 2 to stay in the hunt…
The team totally fell apart as a working unit,…except the lone Hero, …Bucs FG Kicker since the debacle vs the Patriots …a probable win. ..if our Hero was kicking in that Game**
These players take home in 3 games more than most in Tampa make for a year.
They get paid to play total crap, ….coach. ..total crap.
Upside is we have hit bottom. ….ship is Sunk.
Lockers and Jersey name changes.
For God sake! ….go back to Pewter Uniforms and Helmet
Hire character coaching and character players who play with a passion.
The GM has to go. …He failed and it’s best to begin new.
JW is not the future…..I’d move him and seek out a QB who can read defences, has leadership.
It’s over ….Tres Muerte’s. ….The 3 deaths
November 6th, 2017 at 10:07 pm
True, but Jameis didn’t play like he was hurt. He gave team a TD lead, late. Turns out, that was fuel for Koetter to keep him in lineup.
November 6th, 2017 at 10:13 pm
you guys can analyze and pick apart this situation as much as you want but in the end this all boils down to one thing. Your soul less team decided to pick a quarterback that not only should not be in the NFL, but should be in jail. The NFL to this guy is basically parole. I was a die-hard Bucs Fan until this piece of crap team decided to go with this alleged criminal over Mariota. Just because the numbers looked a little bit better against subpar performers you stupid a-holes up in the front office think that that was a good move. That’s when I decided I will no longer be a Bucs Fan and now and a Tennessee fan and I’m loving life. I used to also be a fan of the New Orleans Saints as well- – Until those assholes decided to go ahead and gets Adrian Peterson. Maybe we’ll help our running game to hire somebody who should probably be in jail for child abuse. Suck it up Tampa you got what you deserved hope you like it
November 6th, 2017 at 10:42 pm
JW got hurt in Buffalo,…..When Fitzpatrick could have started.
I’m old school,…You reward the Hero and the guy who gives it all.
Fitz deserved the Start in Buffalo. …the Magi dumped on him like He was of…
NO Value! .
That signals to the players that management is confused
Every game after is team going thru the motions uncertain of Coaching staff,while JW injury status or reps during the week signals futility..
The Players realize the team is desperate and has no leadership
They completely fell apart in New Orleans to close the case that the team is totally dysfunctional! .
You have to blame the Coaches and GM for the past 3 losses.
The Cardinals game was Red Flag warning.
Bad choices compounded, …..now the team is broken with no confidence.
November 6th, 2017 at 10:47 pm
***************
TO ALL THE LOONS
Bucnuts2 … if you think Joe Flacco is better than Jameis you should be institutionalized … the ONLY starting QB worse than Flacco this year is DeShone Kizer … Flacco SUCKS, just absolutely SUCKS.
Also, Jared Goff sucked last year and this year got the QB whisperer, good for him but no NFL GM’s are taking Goff over Winston in a draft.
There are other guys I’d pick on, on your list as well, but even if just those two guys are removed as they should be, you’d have 13 QBs ahead of Jameis and 18 behind him … so … any great TEAM can win a ring with the 14th best QB … flippin Rex Grossman took the Bears to a SuperBowl and Trent Dilfer, Jeff Hostetler and Brad Johnson won a SuperBowl.
Also … how quick everyone forgets what Jameis was on pace for in his first 4 games, you know, the ONLY games he played with a healthy throwing shoulder … 4,792 yards, 28 TDs, 12 INTs, a 95.5 passer rating and a higher completion percentage and lower interception percentage than Wentz and Dak who everyone love to talk up … then Jameis hurt his throwing shoulder and the season went to crap … wow, how surprising … ripping on Jameis for the team’s losses after his THROWING shoulder got jacked would be like ripping Aaron Rodgers or DeShain Watson for the Packers and Texans recent loss because they weren’t tough enough to play … complete garbage!
As to the guy saying it’s too early to compare JW to the guys I compared him too … you miss the FACT that what I posted were FACTS and not mere opinions. Rodgers was still sucking his thumb on the bench at Jameis’ current age and Brees, Favre, Brady and others were just getting started.
Jameis is ahead of pretty much EVERYONE’s curve other than maybe Dan Marino … another guy who became an all-time great but was never surrounded with a quality defense and team and never won a ring.
And to the absolute idiot that said no team would give up more than a 2nd and 3rd for Jameis … dude, I wouldn’t be shocked if the Broncos would give that up for old man Eli Manning or Philip Rivers and that is the package the Browns offered for AJ McCarron who has done nothing in this league, is largely unknown and was nothing special at all in college either, just a game manager who played with a Saban dynasty … if McCarron can draw a 2nd and 3rd, Jameis can draw a TWO #1s, a #2 and a #3 easy … I wouldn’t be surprised if Sam Darnold aka White Jameis enters the draft this year that the Browns get the same package for him from a team like the Giants, Jets or Cardinals … and Darnold is a turnover machine with nothing but “potential” right now.
I don’t mind educating many of you but some of you have such low football IQs and seemingly no perspective or historical context that it gets a little irksome … wise up people, it’s not that hard to do!
***************
November 6th, 2017 at 10:54 pm
***************
P.S. Just so everyone knows, I call all of ya’ll “loons” affectionately … I know you’re all Bucs fans and just want to see “your team” win rings so you can brag and the like … I get it.
I just don’t like idiocy and when I read it, sometimes I like to set the record straight and educate the ignorant.
As for whether I am part of Jameis’ inner circle … I believe some here know who I really am but have kept my identity private which I appreciate. However I will say that I am NOT a blood relative or even a college buddy or anything like that. I am a business person but someone who has been around sports in various capacities for years and I believe I know what I’m talking about and value my opinion more highly than any “anonymous poster” on this forum.
Now, if Jon Gruden or Tony Dungy or Ron Wolf or someone like that starts posting on here and telling me I am mistaken if my vi8ews and statements, I would likely happily concede, but when some loon like “celler dueler” aka “Wewantgruden” and others starts spouting nonsense, don’t expect me to accept it.
I respect Lord Cornelius’ posts and I recognize the true fandom of many other posters and enjoy reading those posters posts, but some of you are close to unbearable due to the level of idiocy displayed in your writing.
Regardless … this is an awesome site and even the loons can type interesting things from time to time, so do carry on …
***************
November 6th, 2017 at 11:14 pm
JW has a stellar Corp of recievers. ….from TE to wide outs.
He has not played with any consistency,
Rumor that He has no or low recognition of defences is tabled…the stats in past games suggest he is dumb in this arena .
Dirk /K failed to coach JW ….the inconsistent play supports that,
Or…JW is entirely overrated… and can’t read defences.
One poster this forum said previously that Fitzpatrick can’t throw,…but can read defences,
JW can throw, ….but can’t read defences.
I’d suggest that JW can’t read defences and is coin toss on throwing .
He gets in a groove…..or he is forcing throws and not thinking.
Candidly,….we needed a downhill running Fridge like Alstott,
Who can block. ..buy the QB that extra moment.
Our Backs could not run or take outlet pass, …We choked continually on drives.
Much of that is on JW ….and awareness recognition.
I’m sorry to slam him …yet it’s a requirement of NFL QBs,
Bucs ran out of gas on offence 3rd down. ..
And caved In on defence – 3rd down.
Field recognition/ awareness ….the team was not prepared ….falls to coaches.
November 6th, 2017 at 11:21 pm
Some of you guys need to chill with blowing up the team and getting rid of everyone, especially Winston.
First off, the greatest coach of the current era of football has already scoffed at the idea that Winston needs to do anything else to show he is a franchise QB. Second, all of his stats are steadily improving except TD passes which I think is on the coaching staff. Third, for those attacking his accuracy, even if Winston was completing 70% of his passes thats only good for another two or three completions per game.
The stats support that he is improving as a player and QB. He is still immature and showed it this past weekend. He should have a long career in the NFL and I hope that it’s with the Bucs.
November 7th, 2017 at 10:40 am
The quarterback is supposed to lead his team, but the head coach should be the supreme commander of the whole team, including the quarterback. I currently do not see that.
November 7th, 2017 at 6:07 pm
NFL nut, aka Jameis’s left nut you are the complete idiot on thesemessage boards. Using a 4 game sample to legitimize your hof claim is true lunacy. JaMiss has more weapons on offense at age 23 than any of those guys ygou mentioned. Mike Evan, Desean Jackson, and Doug Martin were all real probowlers not 3rd alternates but all of the sudden they suck and are the answers to Winstons woes? Sorry buddy you are wrong its the one thing they share in common JaMissaton as their “leader. What a joke you are, sad thing is you think you are more knowledgeable than the rest of us.