“We Look Forward To Getting [Martin] Back”
September 22nd, 2017
Encouraging words
The Buccaneers’ great wall of silence on Doug Martin now has a crack in it.
At the time of this Friday typing, what you haven’t heard general manager Jason Licht or winning head coach Dirk Koetter say about Doug Martin is that the team can’t wait to hand him the rock in their fourth game of the season, when Martin’s drug suspension ends.
We’ve heard them dance around that, including Licht talking about how Martin might need a “carrot” and “there’s no guarantees.”
We’ve also heard Koetter say Martin’s situation is too unique to commit to his return, adding he’s never been in a situation before where a player is gone for a few weeks. (Frankly, Joe never bought the latter.)
But now offensive coordinator/receivers coach Todd Monken has offered what feels like a different tune.
Speaking Wednesday, Monken said the team looks forward to Martin’s return. Monken was asked what has to happen to let him know the Bucs are “OK” at the running back position.
“I think that we’re okay at that position,” Monken said.
“I think they’re talented players, there’s no question. Chuck [Charles Sims] is a guy that we’ve used on third downs to get the ball in space, that’s obvious, and we’ve used him in other situations running the ball. Quizz [Jacquizz Rodgers] is multi-purpose and Peyton [Barber] is still a young player. They’re all good players. Obviously, we don’t have Doug [Martin]. Doug’s a fantastic football player; we look forward to getting him back. But we’ve got to do a great job of balancing the carries maybe a little bit more, and we’ve got to do it better all around. We’ve got to block better on the perimeter, we’ve got to block better up front, but I think we’re fine at running back.”
After Monken speaks on most Wednesdays during the season, Koetter inevitably is asked to comment on something Monken says. Nearly every time, Koetter inevitably says something like, “Coach and everyone else has their own opinion and that’s fine.” Koetter did that on an unrelated issue this week, as well.
So are the Bucs bringing Martin back? Joe maintained weeks ago that Martin had a 15 percent shot to return because of his big salary, horrific 2016 film, history of unreliability and Koetter benching him on Christmas Eve when he wasn’t yet suspended.
Joe wrote that Martin’s chances would improve based on what other Bucs running backs deliver, and their health status.
Forgetting about Monken’s comment, Joe would say Martin’s odds have improved. First, Jeremy McNichols didn’t make the team. That was a giant boost for Martin compounded by the Bucs not finding a running back they liked on the street. Second, Charles Sims looked like his bad-2016-film self running the football against the Bears, albeit in two carries.
Joe thinks Martin might have a 50-50 shot right now to be on the roster when the Patriots invade Tampa. But there’s a load that can happen in two weeks.
September 22nd, 2017 at 11:06 am
I’m starting to think we bring him back as well. Although we ran the ball well, the “good Doug” is so much better than any of the backs we currently have on the roster. Assuming he is still clean, I think it’s probably going to come down to money. Will they ask him to take a pay cut, or just roll the dice and pay him? I really don’t know, but if we can get the “good Doug” back, that would be a HUGE help to this team.
September 22nd, 2017 at 11:10 am
Doug is coming back
Next question?
September 22nd, 2017 at 11:12 am
Martin seems to play the hardest, when money is involved, so bring him back with an incentive loaded contract.
September 22nd, 2017 at 11:23 am
Right now there is a 100 percent chance of Doug Return. Just the way its been for the last Month or so.
September 22nd, 2017 at 11:25 am
Chris, they can’t renegotiate his contract without making him an UFA. Based on his play in camp and the preseason that ain’t going to happen.
50/50 Joe? C’mon now. I would say realistically its about 95% chance that he comes back. I find it hard to believe that you really think it’s a coin flip at this point.
September 22nd, 2017 at 11:29 am
Hawaiian Buc Says:
September 22nd, 2017 at 11:06 am
I’m starting to think
—————
Lies! All this dude does is lie. Plus he don’t know chit
September 22nd, 2017 at 11:31 am
Yes, I’m with Chris on this one!
A “Sweezy” like restructure contract is the fair route to take by both parties.
I’m hoping we continue to run for 100 yds. per game to give Licht leverage.
Come on Rodgers & Barber…..get us over 125 yards this week.
Game 2 for the o-line should be interesting.
Go Bucs!!!
September 22nd, 2017 at 11:34 am
This could also be good for the locker room don’t you think? Licht could be saying” look guys we have your back”. It might not all be about production on the field. Unless Doug really looks bad, I see him back this season for sure.
September 22nd, 2017 at 11:38 am
I really hope they bring him back. Quizz is pretty darn good but Dougie brings so much more versatility. I think his head will be right for the playoff push.
September 22nd, 2017 at 11:39 am
It repeatedly baffles me this is even a topic. It’s a stone cold lead pipe lock. Doug Martin starts day one of his return. Next…. Joes I love your site but some of your opinions. Woww
September 22nd, 2017 at 11:42 am
Bears are very good against the run. And were Week 1, and week 2. Atlanta’s Freeman had only 37 yards and Coleman had 16. Neither had more Yards/carry than Rodgers. And Quizz ran hard, even with flu bug. Now Bucs face Vikings, also good against the run. Steelers’ Bell had no TDs and only 3.1/carry. So again, yardage will be tough come by. But I just think Rodgers is a stud, and will get you 1000 yards this year as lead back. He’s also a great receiver, although dump-offs are not Winston’s strength.
September 22nd, 2017 at 11:48 am
This is bad for the JBF agenda
If calling it as Joe sees it with a healthy dose of reality and information is an agenda, then Joe has one. –Joe
September 22nd, 2017 at 11:57 am
Word around town (One Buc Palace) and the sight of him in OTAs was that he is in very good shape. I like Doug as a player and person, so when he got suspended, I think he really took it to heart and said “man I f-d’ up.” Went out all offseason to get even more jacked up and work on his game. He’s coming back week 4 and I can’t wait to see him.
September 22nd, 2017 at 12:03 pm
*I guess it’s week four for us, week five for the rest of the NFL. Damn you Irma, we could’ve been 2-0 right now.
September 22nd, 2017 at 12:07 pm
Honestly l say it’s closer to a 90% chance dougie makes it back. He is a oour best hope for a decent run game
September 22nd, 2017 at 12:07 pm
Joes, you may think you’re calling it the way you see it, but you’re biased. Doug Martin is 100% coming back. It’s a non-story that you’re drumming up controversy over. This is the fakest news on this website!
September 22nd, 2017 at 12:12 pm
Exactly what Broy34 said.
September 22nd, 2017 at 12:14 pm
87.35%
September 22nd, 2017 at 12:15 pm
Let Joe get this straight: Joe admits (for the 80th time) this is how Joe sees it yet you are suggesting he’s not. When did you mindmeld with Joe?
If wanting the Bucs to win is biased, so be it. Joe has written and spoken dozens of times he has zero issue with Martin personally or in a professional circumstance in any way. In fact, Joe rather likes Doug Martin. But as always, Joe has to set aside personal feelings and be objective and truthful to himself.
September 22nd, 2017 at 12:24 pm
We shall welcome Doug back with open arms in 10 days :-).
September 22nd, 2017 at 12:30 pm
He wouldn’t be on the team still if they didn’t plan on bringing him back. Joes wont be happy about this
September 22nd, 2017 at 12:31 pm
First off I’m with TBTD…why all this talk about renogiating his contract? If we try what makes us think we’ll have the highest bid? As TBTD points out you don’t simply get to renegotiate a veteran’s contract. They would have to use the drug suspension to void his contract first which then makes him a UFA. 31 other teams would be free to bid against us.
If we’re only on the hook for this year’s salary by honoring his contract and keeping him locked up…he’ll be back if he’s healthy. He’s not a game breaker but he is a two time pro bowler. In a year when we’re trying to get to Minny and the SB we’re not going to let a two time pro bowler simply walk or have another team outbid us.
He’ll be back and we’re fine at RB. We have no superstars but we do have some decent depth with “good” if no great RB’s.
September 22nd, 2017 at 12:31 pm
There is no more incentive laden contract that Doug Martin currently has. If he plays and performs, he gets 5.7 mil. If he doesn’t, he gets cut. For those of you expecting a restructure, you will be disappointed. The only reason for either side to restructure will be if the Bucs decide that they want to keep him longer than this season. That will be AFTER this season.
He will return to the Bucs under his contract, something many of us have been saying since McNichols came to rookie camp talking about how he would “eventually get the playbook” The only way that there will be a restructure is if the Bucs decide he is worthy to risk any more seasons beyond this one. Then expect an incentive laden contract with a reduced salary. Not until then.
Not sure where the disconnect is here.
Play well, stay out of trouble = get paid.
Play poorly, get in trouble = get cut without pay
September 22nd, 2017 at 12:34 pm
Pre-draft, I thought 90% he was gone. Post-draft, 50% he was gone.
Now that he’s halfway through his suspension? I’d say 90% that he returns. Here’s to hoping we get a fully healthy “good” Doug. When he’s on, he’s great.
Hoping the strengthened interior line helps him, as well. I want to see him run behind Pamphile/ Marpet/Sweezy.
September 22nd, 2017 at 12:35 pm
Martin’s not going anywhere. He never was unless he fell back on old bad habits.
September 22nd, 2017 at 12:41 pm
Joe calling it like he sees it. Is that the same as seeing it like Ray Charles or seeing it like Stevie Wonder?
September 22nd, 2017 at 12:43 pm
I still wish we had another back on the practice squad other than Hansbrough. Nothing against him, I am pretty sure I understand what to expect from him.
I would’ve picked up Alex Collins for the practice squad when he was released by Seattle. Baltimore did and quickly moved him onto the roster for week 2 so that is gone. He was on my list after McNichols went to the 49’ers.
Talk about a bone-headed move for McNichols…. 5th string at best (once Joe Williams returns) on a group of talented backs. That could’ve been a career ending decision.
September 22nd, 2017 at 12:49 pm
@meh Agreed. Every FSU fan and their mother was begging for DC in the first and I just really don’t believe that would’ve happened even if Juice wasn’t there at 19. Never thought Dougie was going anywhere.
September 22nd, 2017 at 12:49 pm
LOL….not even entertaining that nonsense…joe will be thanking the bucs they kept martin once the run game explodes….GO BUCS!!!!
September 22nd, 2017 at 12:58 pm
So Joe, you guys play poker right? I do as well and I typically don’t gamble on anything else but I will on this one. I will wager $100 that he returns and I will give you 5 to 1 odds on it. If you truly believe it’s 50/50 proposition that he returns, this should be a solid investment for you. Just let me know if you want to wager on it. My offer is legit and I will pay up if I am wrong.
September 22nd, 2017 at 1:06 pm
I’m guessing Martin plays, does solid, and we let him walk or massively restructure and we draft at least 1 RB next year.
DE/DT/RB/OT/CB
September 22nd, 2017 at 1:08 pm
LC gets it..
September 22nd, 2017 at 1:23 pm
“Lies! All this dude does is lie. Plus he don’t know chit’
———
What is wrong with you? You really can’t handle anything can you? What a little princess, lol.
I may not know a lot, but I know more about the Bucs and more about football than you ever will.
September 22nd, 2017 at 1:27 pm
Unless DM is off partying his brains out, he’ll be back for sure. I look for him to have a solid season once he comes back.
September 22nd, 2017 at 1:28 pm
Maybe it’s time for JBF to add another voice…this NON-Joe was pretty certain that Doug would be on the roster come week 4 of the season. Don’t know or remember the odds if I gave them… but I definitely said there was a good chance he’s there when the suspension ends. I also said that I believed his contract would be restructured. If that has happened already or not I have no idea… only the team and Martin and his agent no for sure… but just the fact that the contract is now year to year with no penalty if they cut him, that might be enough for the Bucs.
September 22nd, 2017 at 1:47 pm
They just said Sam Bradford is out this week.
September 22nd, 2017 at 1:49 pm
Sorry.. you’re telling me we would rather have a #6 DE or #6 LB on the roster than our #1 RB with fresh legs on a short week to play NE? 99.9% chance he comes back…
September 22nd, 2017 at 1:50 pm
Eat crow Joe, Doug IS coming back.
September 22nd, 2017 at 1:52 pm
“Sorry.. you’re telling me we would rather have a #6 DE or #6 LB on the roster than our #1 RB with fresh legs on a short week to play NE? 99.9% chance he comes back…”
——-
In theory it sounds like those fresh legs would be helpful. However, keep in mind Doug hasn’t been playing football for a month – hasn’t even been in the building. There’s no way he’s in football shape. Playing football while not in football shape creates an extremely high probability of getting injured. I think if he’s back they’ll definitely give him carries, but don’t expect a 20 carry type of night.
September 22nd, 2017 at 1:53 pm
SMDH – Brandon, it has been stated numerous times already but I will again say that his contract can’t be voided without Martin becoming an UFA. Do you really think Marting would be willing to agree to taking a massive pay cut? Martin is actually in a good situation. He had a great preseason so he has two options, let the Bucs keep him and pay out the contract, or let them cut him and tell them to pound sand and simply go to the highest bidder out there. And there would be some high bids because he looks to be in really good shape. 6 months ago I agreed with Joe that he would be cut, but now Martin is actually in the driver’s seat. NO WAY IN HELL IS HE GOING TO AGREE TO A RESTRUCTURED DEAL FOR LESS MONEY!
September 22nd, 2017 at 1:53 pm
“Eat crow Joe, Doug IS coming back.”
——
I would probably be a little more careful pounding my chest. A lot can still happen in the time Doug comes back. Once he suits up against the Patriots I would say pound away, but until then speak softly………….
September 22nd, 2017 at 2:00 pm
Told ya…..
September 22nd, 2017 at 2:07 pm
why would we let him walk and let him be a valuable asset for another team. plus hes been around and knows the offense inside and out….not to mention that he is our most talented rb.
i would say it is 99.9% chance he is playing vs the pats
September 22nd, 2017 at 2:11 pm
When did you mindmeld with Joe?
……………
Lol Awesome Spock reference.
September 22nd, 2017 at 2:15 pm
Chooooo chooooooo!!!!!!
That’s the run Martin out of town express as it approaches the brick wall known as reality.
September 22nd, 2017 at 2:21 pm
On Doug’s contract I still have yet to get a clear answer on this – if anyone knows let me know – but is Doug’s contract for this year fully guaranteed if he plays? Assuming that is not the case then his contract is a great deal for both sides – Martin gets paid like a top back – but if he doesn’t perform like a top back then he can be cut at any time. If motivation is the issue then that should take care of it.
September 22nd, 2017 at 2:23 pm
@Rod Munch,
His contract for this year is fully guaranteed if he plays.
September 22nd, 2017 at 2:24 pm
“DallasBuc Says:
September 22nd, 2017 at 11:48 am
This is bad for the JBF agenda
If calling it as Joe sees it with a healthy dose of reality and information is an agenda, then Joe has one. –Joe”
Hah! Okay so when a player that the JBF agenda (there is no agenda, so normally Joe would stop you there, but we’ll continue. –Joe) favors sustains an injury that negatively impacts performance or forces them to miss playing time that player is not treated anything like the way Martin has been treated. See Gerald McCoy, the master at not showing up and getting it excused by tales of playing through injury.
Wrong, Joe simply evaluates Martin now as an ineffective veteran player coming off a bad season and a drug suspension.–Joe
Martin has been injured in the three down seasons he has had and this important point is either glossed over or eliminated from any discussion by the present agenda. When he was on the field in those seasons, he did not play well. Period. Forget about the time he wasn’t on the field. If an NFL running back doesn’t perform when he’s banged up, well, that’s a bad sign since most of them get banged up.–Joe
Furthermore the running back position inarguably is the most physical roster position that sustains the most risk of injury, often being tackled by multiple players that in some cases are twice their size on every play they touch the ball. That being said, when healthy Martin is a pro bowl player 100% of the time.
Martin was no Pro Bowler before he got hurt in 2013. And that’s just one example. What were you watching?–Joe
Agendas are terrific because they don’t have to function in a space where a completeness of facts exist unlike reality. A healthy dose of reality would include relevant and complete facts that do away with the favoritism that is overwhelmingly driven by impulses other than facts.
September 22nd, 2017 at 2:25 pm
Martin’s current contract is good for both parties. He performs…he gets paid and Bucs are happy. He doesn’t perform…he hits the street and Bucs owe him nothing.
September 22nd, 2017 at 2:31 pm
Ageee. 100%
September 22nd, 2017 at 2:43 pm
Odds going from 100% to 100% are NOT improving.
He has always had a 100% chance of returning.
As Koetter has repeatedly said: you can’t have enough good football players.
And a stat worth repeating: in 2016, first contact with Martin at least 1 yd. behind the LOS was on 43% of his carries. The team overall had RBs get hit at least 1 yd. behind the LOS on 28% of the carries, worst in the NFL.
Against the Bears, known to have a solid front seven, the Bucs ran the ball 34 times and on only 4 of those carries were first hit at least 1 yd. behind the LOS four times, or 11.8%.
And that was with the starting center at 270lbs.
Yes, a vastly improved OL does make a difference. I expect we’ll see Martin with some explosive plays when he returns.
September 22nd, 2017 at 2:46 pm
“Hah! Okay so when a player that the JBF agenda favors sustains an injury that negatively impacts performance or forces them to miss playing time that player is not treated anything like the way Martin has been treated. See Gerald McCoy, the master at not showing up and getting it excused by tales of playing through injury.”
———–
First of all, I wasn’t aware McCoy hasn’t been showing up. Funny, you and your sidekicks seem to be the only ones feeling that way. McCoy was a Pro bowler and all pro last year. I think he showed up just fine, even though he didn’t make enough tackles for the ignorant. The praises he receives from the front office and coaching staff (you know, the people who actually know his responsibilities) are far more important and influential than a few no-name morons that know nothing about football beyond statistics.
Second, Martin wasn’t hurt last year for the second half of the season, was he? He still couldn’t run for 3 yards per carry. But I guess that doesn’t count.
Finally, GMC (or anyone else you want to speak of) didn’t miss time because of drugs, now did he? Perhaps he was partying because he was soooo injured??? Quite simply, Doug chose drugs over his team.
I want Doug to do well and come back and help this team. He’s a Buc, and I cheer for all Bucs. I hope he runs for 2000 yards and wins the MVP. However, don’t make him out to be a victim here, because he’s far from a victim. He has made his own bed, but let’s all hope this story has a happy ending.
September 22nd, 2017 at 2:47 pm
While his contract is fully guaranteed, it’s essentially week-to-week. They can cut him in anytime and cut losses if there are any issues.
September 22nd, 2017 at 2:49 pm
“That being said, when healthy Martin is a pro bowl player 100% of the time.”
———
And when Mike Glennon is given 14 seconds to throw the ball, he is a Hall of Fame worthy quarterback. News flash – running backs play hurt. Every single one of them.
September 22nd, 2017 at 2:56 pm
All this discussion over a foregone conclusion, meanwhile Kwon has been officially been ruled out for Sunday.
🙁
September 22nd, 2017 at 2:57 pm
Stupid nagging Hamstrings.
September 22nd, 2017 at 2:58 pm
@ Hawaiian Buc: There is “hurt” and there is “injured.”
Every player plays with pain (an old football coach used to preach “A little pain never hurt anybody.” And he was correct.)
But few players play with an injury, and if they do play, their effectiveness can be limited.
Big difference.
September 22nd, 2017 at 2:58 pm
Stupid sexy Flanders.
September 22nd, 2017 at 3:03 pm
Man, I love watching people who get second chances, go right back to the behavior that got them in trouble in the first place.
(Not talking about Doug)
September 22nd, 2017 at 3:08 pm
JBF is stating their opinion or the way they see it as always. Last time I checked, Jedi mind readers were only in the movies. I dont understand why people doubt it except they disagree with a view and want JBF to be only in alignment with their viewpoint.
I disagree with JBF all the time…hell Im moderated once a month because my big mouth gets me in trouble. Sorry to those whom Ive offended as I am working on my flaws. It does NOT mean I cant see JBF viewpoint when it differs from my own.
Martin will be a BUC-100%. Sims, disco dance king, will be waived unless they feel he has more value than someone on special team unit or bubble of roster.
September 22nd, 2017 at 3:37 pm
@DoNUTS: Perhaps the reason folks contest The Joes opinions is that they just discard facts that could interfere with those opinions.
This isn’t a “Joe” thing, but a human thing.
Humans have difficulty shedding beliefs they discover may not be true.
An analogy is the Elisabeth Kübler-Ross 5 Stages of Grief model, based on death and dying: Denial (Martin is terrible and can’t be trusted) –> Anger (I can’t believe the Bucs didn’t sign Adrian Peterson or draft Dalvin Cook) –> Depression (The Bucs are screwed because of a terrible RB situation) –> Bargaining (Maybe the Bucs can trade Martin for a back, or maybe the team will renegotiate his contract, he’s still 50/50) –> Acceptance (If Martin has a good game against the Belicheats, they have a chance to excite stick Carriers and win the Division).
Today’s post is evidence of Bargaining. I anticipate Acceptance to begin on or near 7:06pm on October 1.
(I post this purely tongue-in-cheek. Any emotional distress or anger caused is purely coincidental and unintended. Your results may vary. 😉 )
September 22nd, 2017 at 3:43 pm
There was never below a 90% chance of Doug returning. Literally everyone expect Joe knew that
September 22nd, 2017 at 3:53 pm
“Man, I love watching people who get second chances, go right back to the behavior that got them in trouble in the first place.”
And what sort of behavior would that be?…disagreement? The unwritten rule book is full of pitfalls for those us not in the know. Kissing the mighty aas and being rah rah for the agenda instead of the Bucs is the only way to keep safe I guess.
September 22nd, 2017 at 3:58 pm
“Martin was no Pro Bowler before he got hurt in 2013. And that’s just one example. What were you watching?–Joe”
Uhhhh, 2012? Ya know his rookie season with 1,454 rushing yards and 1,926 from scrimmage. What was I watching? Hmmm…must more fake football to go with that fake news!
Sorry you can’t read what’s actually written. Joe wrote “in 2013.” He was not performing well that season when his shoulder blew out against Atlanta. Very simple. –Joe
September 22nd, 2017 at 4:00 pm
“Wrong, Joe simply evaluates Martin now as an ineffective veteran player coming off a bad season and a drug suspension.–Joe”
Wrong how?
September 22nd, 2017 at 4:00 pm
For all of you criticizing Joe, I promise you that he has better sources than every single one of you – combined. The Bucs have been very tight lipped about this whole thing, which can be interpreted either way. I have heard Koetter say “if” regarding Doug being on the team on numerous different occasions, so to say he was 90% coming back is pretty baseless. The Bucs have been extremely noncommittal either way, so either opinion is actually pretty valid. The difference is Joe puts his name on what he thinks, while all of us hide behind an anonymous internet name.
September 22nd, 2017 at 4:02 pm
“Uhhhh, 2012? Ya know his rookie season with 1,454 rushing yards and 1,926 from scrimmage.”
———
Correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t Josh Freeman throwing TD passes to Mike Williams that year? Do we think those guys are still great players? This is a what have you done for me lately league, and Doug hasn’t done much lately. Can he get back to his old form? I think and hope so. However, I don’t think it’s a slam dunk, and neither should you.
September 22nd, 2017 at 4:13 pm
“Sorry you can’t read what’s actually written. Joe wrote “in 2013.” He was not performing well that season when his shoulder blew out against Atlanta. Very simple. –Joe”
I read what you actually wrote and am fairly confident that 2012 occurred “before 2013” so if a more specific window of time was intended then it should have been specified. (Sorry, but “in 2013” is awfully clear and doesn’t include 2012. –Joe) To your specific point however he was not a superstar in few games he played in that season but neither was anyone else that year. It was a total disaster for the whole team and singling out a small subset of a season prior to tearing his labrum to base your decision then fine but most would see that in context and suggest it lacks perspective.
“Small subset?” Martin had 127 carries in 2013, was clearly not in his rookie form, wasn’t catching what was thrown his way, and he fumbled twice. Also, Bobby Rainey and Mike James came in and had big games against solid defenses. C’mon. Why make stuff up? This is why you’ve spent a lot of time and in the commenter cooler and are now in moderation.–Joe
September 22nd, 2017 at 4:19 pm
@ Hawaiian: “Joe” is not their names. “Joe” in its face is anonymous.
And I, for one, put my name behind what I post with one of my business websites. Roll over my name.
September 22nd, 2017 at 4:29 pm
@Cobraboy,
They are not anonymous, and all of us who have been on this site for more than 5 minutes know their names and faces. They are credentialed members of the media, something you are not. Therefore, they have sources that the rest of us do not.
September 22nd, 2017 at 4:36 pm
@Cobraboy that was a brilliant 5 point breakdown.
This is the first time Joes have changed their tune a little on Martin, I guess 3 weeks of baby steps makes for lesser waves in the pool than the cannonball of admittance we are all waiting on..
When week 5 comes around we’ll have a whole buffet of crow prepared for you, Joes 😉
September 22nd, 2017 at 4:39 pm
Can’t wait for Jacquizz to be named starting running back for rest of season. Show people why he was such a stud in high school and college. He’s not small. Just short. A power back who will pop you in the mouth. Great blocker! Everyone forgetting what he did last season? If it weren’t for freak foot injury during Raiders game, they would have pulled that one out. And he would not have missed 4 weeks, and had a shot at 1000 yards. Trade Martin now. Get something for him.
September 22nd, 2017 at 4:41 pm
No Joe, your not “calling it the way you see it” because you’re married to the wrong side of this story and won’t change your view. I mean 15% to 50-50? Please. Try 95-5. There is no marriage. There is no side.–Joe
Your bias (in this specific case) isn’t in “wanting the bucs to win.” If it were, your take would be how you can’t wait for Doug Martin to come back and you think he’s going to rush for a 1,000 yards despite missing 3 games this year anyway, yipee!! So don’t play that card.
Look, you don’t get to make stuff up about Joe. Of course, Joe wants the Bucs to win. Joe is a Bucs fan, has been for decades. Also, Joe’s business improves when the Bucs win — without question. Joe isn’t playing a “card.” Joe doesn’t have to believe Martin’s 2016 season and two other poor seasons were aberrations. Joe doesn’t tell anyone how to be a fan, and you shouldn’t either.–Joe
Instead it is based upon you taking the wrong side of this story, inflaming the rhetoric to drive a wedge in the issue and spinning the quotes to fit your narrative. That’s why this story is fake news. No other media is questioning “if” Martin returns except you!!!
Joe doesn’t operate worrying about what other media is asking, thinking or doing in order to form an educated opinion. Sorry. That’s never been the case around here. Also, Joe is simply calling this straight as Joe sees it, as Joe does with everything else. You don’t have to like it, but you also don’t have to fire up your own spin and consider it gospel.–Joe
September 22nd, 2017 at 5:40 pm
Looks like Joe in a lotta trouble lop
September 22nd, 2017 at 5:42 pm
So am I banned again? …for the high crime of disagreement?
Joe loves disagreement and welcomes it. However, your comments are often malicious attacks that misrepresent Joe and attack Joe’s credibility without merit. So your comments will be moderated. When Joe has time to play babysitter, they can be reviewed and published. –Joe
September 22nd, 2017 at 6:19 pm
@ Hawaii: Seems those sources weren’t that accurate, huh?
Joe may have press credentials, but I have many years of detailed X and O experience, several of them as a profession.
I listen to what players and coaches, past and present have to say a lot more than “credentialed media”, most who never played nor coached at any level. Sorry, but experience IN the sport trumps journalism school. But that is my bias.
Having credentialed access to PR spin doesn’t count for “deep insight.” I assure you that at both the college and professional level players, coaches and staff are specifically instructed to give away no details about squat without management permission. What people anywhere are “instructed” to do and what they actually do are often very different animals. –Joe
This site is called Joe Bucs FAN. I get the fan part.
This is just another case where Joe got it wrong, that’s all. A case where he looks for bias confirmation, any little sliver of something to prove his point and discarding the rest. The Joes are human. We all are. But understanding one’s own bias is important when trying to be “impartial.” It’s not that big a dealio.
The Joe’s can report and opine what they want: this is their circus, and those are their monkeys. The Joes are very entertaining, and part of that entertainment is stirring the pot. I love The Joes and Joe Bucs Fan. It’s one of my top go-to blogs. I find the comments as entertaining as what The Joes, Ira and all the JBF inmates post.
The comments fall into four basic categories from my chair: 1) The occasional rare, but brilliant, observation or insight, 2) FANtastic homerdom, 3) Does this guy ever actually watch football beyond Madden?, and 4) Dude must be an easy catch with butterfly nets.
The Joes are like the Little Girl with the Curls: when they’re right, they’re very very right, and when they’re wrong…well, they defend themselves.
Like I said: Acceptance will be a glorious day. “Cut him before the draft” will have blossomed into the Bucs starting RB.
This is all very cute and respectful, but man, you are way overthinking and oversimplifying. Keep in mind that experience teaches ALL of us that coaches and GMs and scouts and Xs and Os guys are wrong all the time, and are swayed by their own subjectivity that hardly is always grounded in good sense and objectivity. Joe isn’t here to be right, and Joe keeps no scorecard. But Joe will battle to no end with commenters in defense of misrepresentation. Joe is wrong enough without the need for others to embellish those errors. –Joe
September 22nd, 2017 at 6:53 pm
@Joe: I’n neither overanalysing nor oversimplifying. I am nerely expressing an opinion.
Fact is all humans gravitate toward folks with whom we feel most comfortable, and those who may share similar opinions and biases.
That said, some feel more comfortable with the words of journalists. Others feel most comfortable with the words from players and coaches.
Granted: journalists are trained wordsmiths. I’ve been around some great coaches that couldn’t string two sentences together without bleeps.
For instance, I take what John Gruden or Rex Ryan—coaches—says more seriously than what Sean McDonald, Beth Mowens or Lisa Salter—zero football experience—have to say.
But that’s just one man’s opinion, and opinions vary.
September 22nd, 2017 at 7:18 pm
Serious question Joe, based on what you saw during camp and the preseason, if you were the GM, would you bring Martin back? I changed my mind and personally I can’t wait to see what he will do in once he returns. I would love to know what you would do after game 3 and you were looking at a roster of Rogers, Barber, and Sims.
September 22nd, 2017 at 8:56 pm
@Cobraboy,
I don’t think you really understand my point. Joe gets to talk with the movers and shakers of One Buc. They read his stories, and if they knew they were bringing Doug back for sure, they would have probably said something (off the record). I’m assuming they didn’t, or Joe wouldn’t believe they were going to cut him. I don’t think the Bucs really knew what they are going to do with Doug. Had he come into camp out of shape, I think almost definitely would have been cut. Had he got a hang nail and decided he didn’t want to practice, he would have been cut. Had the team found out he was partying, he would be cut. Had we ran for 300 yards against Chicago, he would probably be cut. However, everything has seemed to go his way, and hopefully that’s a good thing. I would warn that there is still a couple weeks to go, and anything can happen in that time frame. So while it looks like Doug is returning, we really don’t know yet. Monken’s words were the first time anyone from the Bucs has said they were looking forward to Doug coming back. However, last I checked the decision is still going to be made by the head coach and GM.
September 22nd, 2017 at 9:36 pm
Joe is right. Stop calling out his mishaps and celebrate 🎉 him. We are all wrong w predictions. It’s why it’s called predictions and few months ago nobody knew DM status.
September 22nd, 2017 at 11:07 pm
@Hawaiian: I understood your point.
That’s a lot of “if’s”, bro. If my mother had balz she’d be my father.
You done drank the Kool Ade. You aren’t alone. And you aren’t the first.
I mentioned confirmation bias, looking at a tiny shred of anything that helps make your (biased) point.
Yes, if DM had done all those things the team might have made different decisions—like they did for a guy who did come to camp without the proper attitude and determination: McNichols. But right out of the box DM did the right thing. He was even praised for it.
There was *ZERO* reason for ANY coach, GM or front office personnel to say one word about Doug Martin, none. They owe fans and journalists zip, beyond the product on the field. If they give some info, count it as a blessing, not as fulfilling a requirement or journalist mandate. But because they said nothing did NOT mean DM was on the block, unlike the rumor mill said.
Trust me on this one: most players don’t trust the media. Some do, some grandstand, but most just tolerate them as a necessary evil.
As Koetter has consistently said: you coach up the guys you have. That is what this team has done. He and Licht have consistently said: we have no need to make a decision until after Week 3. And they haven’t.
September 22nd, 2017 at 11:59 pm
“DallasBuc Says:
September 22nd, 2017 at 5:42 pm
So am I banned again? …for the high crime of disagreement?
Joe loves disagreement and welcomes it. However, your comments are often malicious attacks that misrepresent Joe and attack Joe’s credibility without merit. So your comments will be moderated. When Joe has time to play babysitter, they can be reviewed and published. –Joe”
Please cite a single malicious attack in today’s debate about Doug Martin? Malicious attack….
September 23rd, 2017 at 12:41 am
By “play babysitter” do you mean engage in debate? I’m confused because you cannot help but engage with my disagreement yet you blame me for forcing you into a “babysitter” situation because I do not share your opinion. Seems like every single challenge is met with immediate hostility by you in the form of sharp language and when met in kind it is usually followed by unsubstantiated allegations of mistreatment like “making stuff up” or “misrepresenting Joe” in a quick reversal to victimization and reactionary cause to throw into moderation, suspension or banishment.
I have been around here longer than most. I was one of your first readers back in 08 from distant places and will always be a fan of the site. I know your value as a media organization and to the Tampa sports community. But if you are an average Joe Bucs fan then you can take as much as you can dish and negotiate disagreement without calling foul.
I have no expectation that this comment will make it out of moderation but I hope both Joes read it before I get banned for it.
September 24th, 2017 at 1:09 am
No comment?
September 24th, 2017 at 1:10 am
Hah. That question/comment goes straight to subversive mediation
Damn
September 24th, 2017 at 1:22 am
The arguments against debate are unsubstantiated and stink of “delicate sensibilities” 🙂
A phrase i used first years ago before you borrowed it uncredited. It’s fine. Like the common reading comprehension dig you are comfortable using all the time now. A DallasBuc device first on this site.
Life is strange and I am banned for legitimate reasons unknown