Jameis: Not Elite (Yet)
February 16th, 2017
Talks Super Bowls.
America’s Quarterback has invaded America’s minor league town.
(Honestly, has there ever been a minor league that hasn’t had a franchise in Orlando? XFL, CFL, USFL, arena league, baseball, basketball and hockey leagues of all types?)
This offseason, Pro Bowler Jameis Winston is working out with a guy by the name of Tom Shaw who runs a camp for NFL prospects. Jameis even speaks to the future NFLers in the camp.
Shaw, per Stephen Ruiz of the Orlando Sentinel, didn’t care much for Jameis when he was coming out of Florida State but has warmed.
Shaw has been so won over by Jameis, at one workout session, Ruiz asked Jameis if he is an elite NFL quarterback.
No way, said Jameis. Or at least, not yet.
Winston realizes what separates him from being an elite QB.
“Well, I have to get Super Bowls,’’ he said. “I have to consistently win football games. I have to consistently prepare and execute on and off the field like those men. This is just my third year, so I know I have a long time to get there, but I like things to happen sooner than later.
“I’m just trying to be the best I can be.’’
Notice Jameis said “Super Bowls,” as in plural? He didn’t mention anything about stats, but the implication was clear. When he leads his team to the Super Bowl. More than one. Team, not individual stats.
That’s pretty cool.
Joe will write this up for next week but Joe talked to Terry Bradshaw in Houston about Jameis. You’ll love Bradshaw’s response.
February 16th, 2017 at 3:04 pm
Did anyone consider him elite? Well anyone with any knowledge of the game?
Great pocket presence, leadership and improvisation skills but he has a long way to go to get close to that Elite category. And get the kid some freakin weapons
February 16th, 2017 at 3:06 pm
Tony
Check the record books!
February 16th, 2017 at 3:08 pm
My wife and I have an expression to describe various people. Some people are smart…some not so smart…but there are some people “who get it!”
#3 GETS IT!!! This is why he is so attractive to fans and teammates. He gets it! And my wife and I have one more qualifier for folks we like to call our friends and people we simply admire. We like people who are omfortable in their own skins. #3 is clearly comfortable in his skin and doesn’t need to toot his own horn. He’ll let his play speak for itself and he’s confident but not cocky that it’s only a matter of time.
#3 has the very best personality of any player on the Bucs and perhaps the entire NFL. Yeah as he himself acknowledges he has work to do…but does anybody doubt that he’ll do it. Does anybody believe he won’t approach it all with an incredibly positive attitude.
I LOVE positive people…which sometimes gets me in trouble here at JBF. 🙂
February 16th, 2017 at 3:13 pm
One small correction, Joe.
When Jameis said ‘I have to get Superbowls’, he meant ‘I have to get Superbowl wins’, not SB appearances.
February 16th, 2017 at 3:27 pm
Not somewhere on the beach with one those lil drinks with the lil umbrella inside. Rather somewhere puttin in that”work”. Some of you will be forced to eat your criticism. Don’t say I say I didn’t warn you.
February 16th, 2017 at 3:34 pm
Jags just cut bate wit OT Kelvin Bachum. Their are people on jbf waayy smarter than myself that could give us the run down on him. Sure one of you will.
February 16th, 2017 at 4:06 pm
*****
Most young QB’s with his resume probably would have said:
“For sure I’m elite. I won a heisman, a national title, was the #1 pick, mad the Pro Bowl and am the first QB in history to start his career with back-to-back 4,000 yard seasons … and I’m still just 23 years old. Who else can say all of that? No one.”
However, that’s not Jameis … Jameis does indeed “get it”.
He’s also a sincere believer who knows the only perfect one was JC and that’s his ultimate example … have you seen his twitter page … it’s loaded with verses and is really quite impressive, especially when compared to the self-promotional diva pages of most athletes today!
Now, personally, I do consider Jameis “elite”, at least on a second tier level, behind only guys like Brady, Rodgers and Brees … I believe he’s in the same class as Big Ben, Stafford, Luck, Ryan and guys like that … right now … and yet, he’s only 23 years old … awesome.
******
February 16th, 2017 at 4:09 pm
Also Jameis is Elite in at least 2 categories. Yards per completion. And completion percentage against pressure. The latter category being 2nd only to Tom Brady.
February 16th, 2017 at 4:13 pm
Get Jamies a #2 WR and he’ll be a consistent 30 + TD QB.
February 16th, 2017 at 4:48 pm
Jameis is nowhere close to elite. He’s got a lot of work to do. Especially in the accuracy Dept. Get to the playoffs, Win a division, Get to the superbowl..win a superbowl. He;s done none of those yet. Until then? He’s just a good leader trying to win as many games as possible. Get him a little more help and we shall see.
February 16th, 2017 at 4:51 pm
I would not say he is elite yet. He’s only 23. I do agree with a lot of what everyone has said above. If you give him weapons, some time to develop I am sure he can get to the “great” status. I view the elites as Manning, Brady, Montana, Young, Elway, Aikman, Bradshaw and Favre … Just to name a few. I think he has the chance to be elite. But way too early to say he is elite at this point. He needs to protect the ball a bit better as well. Before anyone says it I know Favre was careless with the ball too.
February 16th, 2017 at 4:56 pm
Mike Johnson … the problem with your statement is it’s all about “team success” and that is not a solid measure for individual excellence.
Was Drew Brees “elite” the year he won the SB but “not elite” last year? No. Brees has been elite for years and years no matter what the Saints “team” record has been.
Jameis had a higher qbr, raw qbr and pts added (like WAR in baseball) than Russell Wilson, Derek Carr and Philip Rivers and more pts added than Ben Roethlisberger, four QB’s most consider to be “elite” … and Jameis did it with a bad offensive line and NO offensive weapons outside of Evans … the kid is a 2nd tier QB right now and to me that is “elite”, just not Brady/Rodgers/Brees elite.
Jameis was a better QB than Matt Ryan in his rookie year … he didn’t get worse and Ryan get better over the past 12 months … they are both still the same QB’s … it’s just that the Falcons “team” played better and Ryan had a massve amount of weapons to throw too … he’s now the reigning NFL MVP, OPOY, 1
February 16th, 2017 at 4:59 pm
Convinced that Jameis is a franchise QB who’s more than capable of leading us to the Super Bowl(s). But it’s the TEAM that we build around Jameis that will ultimately determine whether or not we get there & whether or not we win. Many can remember certain franchise QBs like Dan Marino, Jim Kelly & Fran Tarkenton who were each VERY VERY GOOD and got their teams to the SB, only to lose (some multiple times). Jameis is the least of our concerns in Tampa Bay. We need to surround him with a solid defense & special teams, a solid OLine and especially provide him with some high quality weapons. He’ll do the rest.
February 16th, 2017 at 5:00 pm
continued …
“1st team all pro and reigning NFC champ … and he’s still not as good as Jameis … he’s just got a better “team”.
People make way to much out of “team success” when evaluating individual talent and it’s pretty ridiculous.
I mean, come on … can you imagine if NFL Scouts were like, “I think we should draft Wayne Gallman over Leonard Fournette because Gallman “won more games” and had a better win/loss record in college? That scout would be fired!
Mitch Trubisky is considered by almost all talent evaluators to be a better NFL prospect than Deshaun Watson and to be drafted higher … and yet Watson’s w/l record is amazing and Trubisky’s is nothing special at all.
Anyways … Jameis Winston right now is not in the class of Brady/Rodgers/Brees but there is not one other QB that I would say is definitely “better” than him, not one … not Cam, not Matt Ryan, not Big Ben, not Ribvers, nt Luck, not Stafford, no one.
February 16th, 2017 at 5:02 pm
Defense Rules … spot on.
Marino, Kelly and Tarkenton were all undoubtedly “elite” and yet they combined to win a total of ZERO rings. Heck, Marino may have been the most “elite” pure passer the game has ever seen!
Team success has very, very, very little to do with individual excellence.
February 16th, 2017 at 5:03 pm
Joe it’s always been about multiple SB’s for Jameis and I.
For all the negativity Tmax gets crap for he understands this too.
Jameis Winston is going to win multiple SB’s.
All aboard?
February 16th, 2017 at 5:05 pm
Can’t we all just be happy with something we have never had?
A Franchise QB with the tools and will to become Elite!!!!
Settle down will ya?
February 16th, 2017 at 5:06 pm
@DB55- Just like the GOAT Bill B says in New England, stats are for losers.
February 16th, 2017 at 5:07 pm
There’s less than 10 ” Elite QBs” in the NFL. The rest are “average” or “below average.
February 16th, 2017 at 5:09 pm
My precious pearls of wisdom are awaiting moderation. 🙂
February 16th, 2017 at 5:17 pm
DislocatedBucsFan … Terry Bradshaw was NOT an elite QB … the guy threw 212 TD’s to 210 picks … he was a good player on DOMINANT “teams”.
That is my whole point about how “team” success has very little to do with “individual” excellence.
Gimme Dan Marino and Dan Fouts over Terry Bradshaw and Troy Aikman despite the former pair having ZERO rings and the latter pair having SEVEN rings.
February 16th, 2017 at 5:17 pm
#weaponsforwinston
Browns reportedly WONT franchise Pryor if can’t make a deal
February 16th, 2017 at 5:30 pm
*****
LakeLandBuc … let’s say you’re right that there are ONLY 10 “elite QB’s in the NFL … and let’s say that Brady/Rodgers/Brees are obviously the top 3 … and let’s even say that Eli and Big Ben on their past merits of winning rings are in that top 10 … that’s only 5 guys … who are the other 5 that are DEFINITELY “better” than Jameis? I can’t think of a single one.
You could say Russell Wilson on his past merit of winning a ring BUT Jameis has a better qbr, raw qbr and pts added than Wilson this past year.
You could say Matt Ryan and Cam Newton based on them winning the last two MVP’s BUT it’s obvious Jameis was better than Cam this past season and better than Ryan the year before, so I wouldn’t say either are definitely “better” than Jameis.
To me, the below is clear:
TOP TIER: Brady/Rodgers/Brees
2nd TER: Lots of guys (Roethlisberger/Manning/Rivers/Jameis/Ryan/Luck/Stafford, etc)
3rd TIER: Lots of guys (Wentz, Tannehill, Simien, Cutler, etc)
BOTTOM RUNG: Lots of guys (Goff, Osweiler, RG3, Fitzpatrick, etc)
Guys like Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Jeff Hostettler and others are proof positive that just about any QB that can earn a rating in the 70s and throw at least a couple more TD’s than picks is capable of winning a SB on a great “team” while an all-time great like Marino is proof positive that even an ultra “elite” QB on a bad “team” is not going to win anything!
The Bucs have a 2nd tier, “good” QB right now with the potential to be a top tier, elite, all-time great QB … and they need to build a great “team” around him, period!
******
February 16th, 2017 at 5:40 pm
Shocker Tennessee Tony is the first one on this article about Jameis not being perfect. Who would have guessed that?
February 16th, 2017 at 5:43 pm
Winston, Koetter and Licht will bring us several Lombardi’s.
Winston will eclipse Matt Ryan within 2 years.
Go Bucs!!!!
February 16th, 2017 at 5:45 pm
tdtb2015 … Jameis was better than Ryan in 2015 … he’s already better than him; he just doesn’t have the same team around him.
February 16th, 2017 at 5:47 pm
I said there’s LESS than 10 “Elite” QBs in the NFL, And personally I would consider Tom Brady as the only Elite QB in the NFL. These other QBs are ” sometimes “elite” and other time garbage. And I have never seen a Elite QB, who has never been to the playoffs.
February 16th, 2017 at 5:53 pm
IMO the fact that the Browns are unlikely to Franchise Pryor is the Best News All Week. I’m telling you that kid is gonna be a Star. I hope we go full steam in pursuit of him. I have said since the season was over that if we could land Pryor and Campbell in FA then the Draft will be Easy.
February 16th, 2017 at 5:53 pm
LakeLandBuc … I take your reply as meaning you can’t refute my statement at all.
As for Brady … please. Rodgers is “better” than him. His career rating, td-to-int, etc., all blow Brady’s out of the water … Brady just has the Pats organization and team.
Brady is a great QB and the Pats are a world-class organization that constantly field great “teams” … and that has led to 5 rings.
Montana was the same way … great QB + great teams = dynasty.
However there are many current and former players, coaches and the like that would say Rodgers is “better” than Brady and Marino was “better” than Montana but that they simply didn’t have the “team” around them.
The NFL isn’ta one-on-one sport, heck it’s not even like the NBA where one guy (Jordan, LeBron) can “carry” a team to a title … there s no single NFL player that has ever been great enough to carry an entire 53 man “team” to a title, and Tom Brady sure as heck isn’t that guy.
I have no doubt Jameis is good enough to win a ring right now … I’m just hoping the “team” around him will be the same.
February 16th, 2017 at 6:09 pm
NFL NUT..That’s just my opinion..that’s all it is..a opinion.
February 16th, 2017 at 6:13 pm
It doesn’t matter if anyone on this board thinks he’s elite. He doesn’t think he is. So he will drive himself until he is. He probably is wired to think that the only elite QB is Brady.
February 16th, 2017 at 6:44 pm
No one knows what he needs to do more than #3. The Bucs will do their best to surround him with what he wants and needs. You best believe the organization is still pinching itself for it’s good fortune. Set no limits on Jameis. Just pray he stays healthy for his career. If he does, the nation will get to see what a leader of men looks like for a long time. Stop nitpicking and enjoy the journey.
February 16th, 2017 at 6:48 pm
@ndog- Born n raised n Tampa currently residing in NYC. Never lived in Tennessee
February 16th, 2017 at 7:12 pm
A guy with a plus 5 turnover ratio for the year is not elite. And no he’s not better then Matt Ryan OMG. I think with another good offseason and some better players he will be on his way to being so though.
February 16th, 2017 at 7:13 pm
Maybe not but we all know you love your boy in Music city. But living in New York means you have probably never seen Jameis play live which also means you haven’t seen the lack of separation our receivers get or all of the other variables that you get from a live game which helps explain your dislike and confusion about the Bucs QB.
February 16th, 2017 at 7:29 pm
LakeLandBuc … no worries, you’re opinion is as valid as mine … we just disagree 🙂
tnew … you are probably 100% right and I am thrilled that Jameis is “all about the team” and wants to win more than put up numbers … that’s a rare mindset for a young QB.
PatrickBucs … YES Jameis is already “better” than Matt Ryan and was as a rookie as well. I stand by that statement. However Ryan is surrounded by explosive playmakers and all-world offensive talent and Jameis is surrounded by average talent.
Even Mike Evans, as great as he is and as much as I like him as a payer, is nowhere near the “talent” that Julio Jones is.
Brate, who Jameis is turning into a star, was an UDFA out of Harvard and is not in the same class as a guy like Mohammed Sanu as a “talent”.
The Quizz/Sims/Barber trio SUCKS compared to the Freeman/Coleman combo Matt Ryan has to work with.
Even Taylor Gabriel blows Adam Humphriies out of the water as a “talent”.
Listen, Matt Ryan is a very good QB but I honestly believe that even a garbage QB like Osweiler or Fitzpatrick or could have had a Pro Bowl caliber season if they were surrounded by the all-world talent on Atlanta’s offensive side of the ball.
IMHO Jameis was “better” than Matt Ryan last year, is “better” now and will continue to be “better” … to me Jameis is a true leader and a guy that can carry a team on his shoulders … Matt Ryan is a nice QB that can put up great stats when surrounded by all-world talent … it’s sort of like how I view the comparison between John Elway and Jim Kelly … Kelly is to Ryan as Elway is to Jameis.
February 16th, 2017 at 7:29 pm
So ME and Pryor possible huh. That’s a HK on one side and a Draco on the other.
February 16th, 2017 at 7:43 pm
^^^^^What Nos just said!^^^^^^
February 16th, 2017 at 7:48 pm
I would love to get Pryor!!! A big guy with speed and athleticism. In fact he’s an athletic freak!!! From Wiki…
With Browns quarterbacks Robert Griffin III and Josh McCown inactive during a Week 3 contest against the Miami Dolphins, Pryor started as a receiver and took a few snaps at quarterback behind rookie Cody Kessler. He also had one play at safety at the end of the second half. Along with his 144 receiving yards, Pryor finished the loss with three completions for 35 yards, 21 rushing yards and scored his first rushing touchdown as a Brown. He was the first player in the NFL to have at least 120 receiving yards, 30 passing yards, and 20 rushing yards in a game since Frank Gifford did so for the New York Giants in 1959.
This guy can flat out ball. I’m thinking Hines Ward … another converted QB..with more size and speed. He’s just starting to learn proper route running and his upside is off the chart.
He IS a sore loser. Does not want to play for losers! Are we losers? Or can we accommodate his need to win?
February 16th, 2017 at 7:54 pm
I would LOVE to see a Pryor signing! Can you imagine a ME/Pryor/OJ Howard/Brate/Mixon starting 5 … there isn’t a defense in the NFL that could stop that “5” … crazy to think about.
As for Pryor being a “sore loser” … how can he even dream of re-signing with the Browns if this is true? Jameis and the Bucs would be a dream come true for this kid I would think …
February 16th, 2017 at 7:55 pm
NFLNut… But I do believe that Jason Licht failed Jameis last season.
February 16th, 2017 at 8:06 pm
LakeLandBuc … you and me both buddy, you and me both 🙁
Hopefully 2017 will be different and Jameis will have some real weapons to work with … one thing that makes me nervous though is that Licht came from the Patriots who outside of Moss and some insanely talented TE’s for Brady to work with have never really given him much in the way of WR’s and RB’s
I’m just hoping Licht doesn’t draft OJ Howard and think “the offense is set” and then draft and sign all defensive guys …
February 16th, 2017 at 8:21 pm
I’m going to wait and see what Jason Licht do. Last season I waited and waited and I’m still waiting.
February 16th, 2017 at 8:32 pm
NoSBoS,
Here’s a NFL.com mock that picks Dalvin Cook and lots of O-Line help. Not endorsing, just pointing out that legitimate mockers are making your point. Keep hope alive! lol.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000786173/article/reuter-4round-mock-draft-top-talent-drops-with-early-qb-run
February 16th, 2017 at 8:45 pm
@Ndog-we have season tickets section 312 row c come by some time we’ll have a few beers.
February 16th, 2017 at 8:45 pm
Speaking for Pablo
“Some say that in order for Hamus to be elite, Haboo would have to get rid of his elongated arc……Pablo would never get rid of his….and he suspects that Hamus will want to keep his also”
February 16th, 2017 at 9:07 pm
10/4 Mac and good look homie. I know I ain’t out my mind for thinking it not only is possible contrary to what the “looonnng gone tribe” says. But would be dynamic. I got a similar vision NFL mines just ME/Pryor/Samuels/Brate/and of course Mr. Take it to the house Dalvin in the backfield. Who you gone double??? I dare you bring a extra man in the box.
February 16th, 2017 at 9:07 pm
Has any NFL QB ever been elite within their 1st years of playing? don’t think so. Luck was good, not elite his rookie year.
February 16th, 2017 at 9:10 pm
So that makes two right Mac??? Guess I’m crazy.
February 16th, 2017 at 9:18 pm
He’s had the most promising start to his career of any QB this franchise has ever seen. If you have a great QB you have a chance to compete every year. So far, it looks like we have good times to look forward to.
Is Winston elite? Hell no. An elite QB wouldn’t miss some of the throws that he misses. When he gets to the point where he connects on most of the “easy” completions that you need to keep the chains moving, then he will be elite. When he doesn’t turn the ball over when he’s backed up inside enemy territory, then he will be elite. Until then, he’s still just another run of the mill QB that’s done a halfway decent job his first couple years in the league, of which there’s been alot of those guys. Will he ever be truly elite? I don’t know, but at last he still has a chance to get to that point. He hasn’t proven yet that he can’t get there
February 16th, 2017 at 9:20 pm
NOSBOS
He who laughs last laughs best….that could be you on draft day!
February 16th, 2017 at 9:24 pm
Marino was elite in his 2nd year
As for Jameis “missing throws” … did you watch the SuperBowl? Brady missed a bunch of throws … and threw a pickable ball on the “game winning drive” … Alford just happened to drop the easy pick and then Edelman made the circus catch and the rest is history.
My point is that even “elite” QBs like Brady and Rodgers miss receivers and overthrows guys multiple times in every single game … watch some games that don’t involve the Bucs and you’ll understand this
February 16th, 2017 at 9:35 pm
Until then, he’s still just another run of the mill QB that’s done a halfway decent job
He threw for over 4,000 yards last year!!! That placed him in 12th spot among all NFL QB’s last year. If he was run of the mill what were Eli Manning, Tom Brady, Ben Rothlesberger, Alex Smith, Marcus Mariota and the 20 QB’ who threw for less than #3. Oh but wait…#3 was playing with top receivers and a great OL…(snark font off)
But then there is his rookie year…he was only 14th in yardage again with over 4,000 yards.
Jameis Winston is the FIRST QB IN NFL history to throw for over 4,000 yards in each of his first two years. Run of the freaking mill stuff eh?
Man some of you negative nellies would come out of a wedding night with Sofia Vergera beotching about the p&ssy!!!
February 16th, 2017 at 9:47 pm
I ain’t even gone gloat draft night Pete. Won’t be so much as a “I told’em so”from me. But in the privacy of my home I’ll be talking all kinds ishh.
February 16th, 2017 at 9:48 pm
“run of the mill”??? Wish I could hit that wit ya homie.
February 16th, 2017 at 10:09 pm
A run of the mill QB is Sam Bradford, Ryan Tannehill and Alex Smith, that phrase doesn’t apply to Jameis at all.
February 16th, 2017 at 10:21 pm
I’m not going to get too excited about the Browns saying they don’t want to tag Pryor. It would be nice to land him though.
February 17th, 2017 at 11:35 am
So Tampa Tony you fly down from New York every Buc home game? If true i have new respect for your opinion.
February 17th, 2017 at 2:41 pm
JW is far from elite at this point in my opinion but he has the desire so we’ll see how he progresses. It’d be great if he turned out to be elite but I really don’t care as long as we win a SB or two. Brad Johnson was far from elite and we won one with him at QB. To me that’s all that matters.