DeSean Jackson Reasonably Priced
February 20th, 2017
How much?
Yes, there is sometimes rancor within the walls of JoeBucsFan.com world headquarters, and it has nothing to do with throwing away the week-old empty pizza boxes.
As Joe has written, the two Joes are split on which Redskins free agent wide receiver Bucs AC/DC-loving general manager Jason Licht should throw wads of Team Glazer loot.
One Joe is enamored by DeSean Jackson’s ability to stretch the field. The other Joe wants dependable Pierre Garçon. Both Joes would be OK with either one.
Jeff Kerr, Eagles beat guy for 247Sports.com, was researching and believes the NFL value for Jackson is very reasonably priced at $7.6 million annually.
Jackson, 30, led the NFL with 17.9 yards per catch with the Washington Redskins last season. He finished with 56 catches for 1,005 yards and four touchdowns. In Jackson’s final six games, he had 22 catches for 538 yards and two touchdowns, averaging an astounding 22.0 yards per catch.
Jackson’s age has driven his market value down, despite being one of the game’s best deep threats. Comparable players to receive similar deals over the last few years around Jackson’s age are Brandon Marshall (three years, $26 million), Mike Wallace (two years, $11.5 million), and Larry Fitzgerald (two years, $22 million).
Marshall was coming off a 61 catch, 721-yard season with eight touchdowns when he signed his contract with the New York Jets in 2015. Fitzgerald had 109 catches for 1,215 yards and nine touchdowns before signing his extension prior to last season.
Interestingly, the same outfit Kerr got his information from, Spotrac.com, has Garçon estimated to bank $8.7 million annually on his new contract.
If those estimates are remotely accurate, then the Bucs could easily afford either one, assuming the Redskins don’t lock them down.
February 20th, 2017 at 9:14 am
I wouldn’t mind if they decided to overpay a little bit for one of these guys just to make sure they get him.
Personally, I would prefer Garcon over Jackson just because there are more of the speed WRs, like D-Jax, in this years draft than there are polished route runners, like Garcon. That’s the only reason tho. I’m scared of signing D-Jax because of his injury history.
February 20th, 2017 at 9:48 am
Injury history is always a concern. I honestly have not kept up with either DJax or Garcon physically.
Age however is NOT a big deal. In addition to the WR’s Joe has listed we have the example of our own Joey Galloway!
Joey tore the ACL in his left knee playing for the Cowboys. He rebounded and put up some decent numbers and we traded Keyshawn to get Joey who turned 33 his first season with us. He injured his groin in his first game with the Bucs and missed six games in 2004. That would have been enough for JBF posters eh?
Torn ACL…groin injury and 33 years old!!! But the Bucs resigned him in the offseason and 2005 was Joey’s greatest year as a pro…catching a career high 83 passes for 1,287 yards and ten touchdowns. The next year he started 14 of 16 games, making 42 receptions for 1,057 and seven touchdowns. It was also just the second time in Bucs history that a player had gone over the 1,000 yard receiving mark in back-to-back seasons.
I get warning signals like age and injury history…..but players are INDIVIDUALS! Joey Galloway played his very best football for the Bucs in his mid 30’s. We have not had a player since Joey who could stretch the field!!
You all know me…I am freaking jonesing for some SPEED!!! Not a quick TE…or decent RB…but REAL SPEED.
Just three off season moves could move us from the slowest offensive unit in the league to one of the fastest. We sign Djax…we draft Dalvin…and we draft Curtis Samuels who will play mostly wide but can run it as well. Our offense becomes explosive…ME13 gets a little space…and Cameron Brate with his great hands, connection with #13 and his smarts gets room to operate as well!!
That still leaves 5 draft picks…or at least 4 even if Licht has to spend three picks to get both Dalvin and Samuels to pick up another DE…TE…Safety..whatever.
Signing Djax also leaves enough FA money to grab a stud DL like Campbell or Fairley.
#WeaponsforJameis!!!!
February 20th, 2017 at 9:52 am
Thing is, when your job is on the line, you cannot point to an outlier as the norm. Most owners frown when an expensive, long-shot gamble turns belly-up.
Trust Joe, age is a significant factor for NFL teams when gauging price and quality of a free agent signing, including the Bucs.
February 20th, 2017 at 9:57 am
It’s obvious the Bucs need to add another WR weapon to this team this offseason. The question becomes which is better: draft or free agency? Personally, I say free agency and DJax is the guy. I prefer the proven player that compliments Evans with speed instead of hoping a rookie can make an immediate impact at #19. Imagine a late defensive stop in a game and the ball gets punted back to the Bucs and DJax is back there waiting for it…
February 20th, 2017 at 10:01 am
Stpete. I’m all in with you on getting some juice on our roster.
But I gotta level with you man, with the way Dalvin is raising his stock with the “gurus” of the draft, and nationally TV scouts, there ain’t no way he’s getting out of the top 10.
In my perspective, it would be borderline reckless of Jason Licht to trade away 3-4 draft picks on a running back in the 1st round, when there is a guy like Christian McCaffrey that will more likely than not be available for us when we pick.
McCaffrey is the complete package that Cook is. You can argue your hesitance about his race, but his gene’s speak for themselves. You can argue he ran against Pac 12 defenses, I can argue Cook ran against creampuffs as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5k_A7atcmY
Take this kid seriously, and know that we could potentially come away with Desean Jackson ( or kenny stills ), as well as Curtis Samuel, and an entire draft class behind them.
February 20th, 2017 at 10:07 am
Either one is good for me. We just need weapons.
February 20th, 2017 at 10:10 am
Blake
I do not disagree with you at all. If Dalvin jumps up into the top ten he’ll be pretty well untouchable for us. I’m cool with that. NOSBOS assures me however that he’ll be available at 19. 🙂
If not I think like you and perhaps 87. If DC falls to 15 or lower then we should consider a move. I cannot see us trading into the top ten for anybody…just too expensive. In that case get Samuels and Foreman and try a little Thunder and Lightning like the old days.
Unlike many here I’m just not that big a Mixon fan..not because of the video or his poor attitude with parking lot attendants….but because of the offense he played in and some inconsistent numbers….big against some teams…not so big against others. Foreman rushed for over 100 yards in ALL 12 games breaking a Texas record held by the legendary Earl Campbell. I’d love to have a young Eddie Lacy or Marshawn lynch type and be able to go into beast mode. Imagine the play action fakes from #3 and if we had Samuels and Djax we’d still have some speed.
February 20th, 2017 at 10:20 am
I too am a fan of Foreman. Love his size, power, quickness, and surprising burst/ speed. The only scenario I see us getting both Forman and Samuel, is if we trade out of the 1st round and take them both in the second.
But I really do think that McCaffrey is the real deal. And would be worthy of our 19th overall pick.
And If you like the Marshawn Lynch/ Frank gore types, check out Kareem Hunt. Kid did damage out of a small school, but also put on a show at the senior bowl.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9JdwwEgYAw
Shows a lot of quality traits, great feet, excellent balance, good size, shows power and elusiveness, and great vision. Getting him in the 3rd would also be another solid route to go.
February 20th, 2017 at 10:33 am
DJAX will want and get more money. He most likely won’t be worth the money but he will get a lot
February 20th, 2017 at 10:45 am
I don’t care how far he falls, if it’s not 19 I’d be livid if we move up for Cook. He’s not worth it. Sorry. No RB is. No to a RB in the first PERIOD.
If C. Harris or D. Barnett are sitting there I’m taking DE. Skill players are interchange. BUT your linemen needs to be a cohesive unit that grows together. That’s why I choose Poe over Campbell… Age
That’s why I choose Stills over Jackson. Oh and yes I’ll take Mixon in the 4th
Pryor
Stills
Brate
Evans
Mixon
Rodgers…
First 3 picks can now be used on more BPA than needy mentality
February 20th, 2017 at 10:45 am
I would rather have the 24 year old receivers..Robert Woods and Kenny Stills.
February 20th, 2017 at 10:53 am
I meant to say I’m not scared of D-Jax injury history. Just happened to read my comment again lol.
February 20th, 2017 at 11:01 am
@LakeLandBuc… That’s what I’m saying. We can significantly boost this roster with talent, experience with NFL defenses… And that NEED FOR SPEED that @Stpete wants so bad. All while staying young. No more bridge players. Jameis and Kwon have us CROSSING the bridge ALREADY
February 20th, 2017 at 11:10 am
People need to prepare for getting used to the fact that Doug is likely coming back. Remember I said I told you so…
Use a late rounder on depth at RB, sign Desean and hopefully stills, and go Corey Davis (who I want more than anyone) or OJ Howard in the first. OL in second.
February 20th, 2017 at 11:20 am
I don’t see how Doug Martin coming back is a fact…
February 20th, 2017 at 11:26 am
I would take DeSean Jackson over Pierre Garcon. Jackson may have missed games in 2015, but aside from that he’s been healthy. The thing that gets my attention is the fact that he has more yards and TDs than Pierre Garcon…and also seems to be better at stretching the field (stat-wise).
I could get behind DeSean Jackson easily.
Plus, it would remove a need from the top of the draft.
February 20th, 2017 at 11:28 am
So y’all must’ve missed the part when the Comish said Jason Licht will be talking with ALL GMs in the league to gauge they’re interest in Dalvin Cook. Why so I would like to ask you all??? Don’t know about y’all but that smells like to me he would be trying to figure out what it’s going take to move up in the event he feels someone may be thinking of grabbing him before 19. Cringe til that facial expression sticks on your face. The writing is on the wall. DC is the main objective of the entire draft.
February 20th, 2017 at 11:29 am
I didn’t mean it was a fact….yet. I’m just saying it’s more likely that it will happen than people realize. There have been two credible sources that have leaked as of late that management wants to give him another shot. See where he is with rehab and if he’s healthy, proceed with him.
February 20th, 2017 at 11:29 am
Eric Says
“People need to prepare for getting used to the fact that Doug is likely coming back. Remember I said I told you so…”
Joeypoppems Says
“I don’t see how Doug Martin coming back is a fact…”
Joey, Eric said ‘likely’, not a fact.
But I happen to agree with him. I suspect a contract will be negotiated, but even if it isn’t, I suspect he’ll be back. I also don’t think Licht will take a RB in round one…more like round 3.
February 20th, 2017 at 11:30 am
Oops, eric beat me to it 😉
February 20th, 2017 at 11:31 am
Eric y’all also must’ve missed the part where he said he would raise San eyebrow if Dalvin isn’t the Bucs first round pick. 😂This ishh funny. Look be an ostrich as bury your heads in the sand if that makes you feel better, won’t change the draft night gamelan any.
February 20th, 2017 at 11:32 am
So that’s like saying it will 100% maybe happen. Doesn’t make any sense lol
February 20th, 2017 at 11:33 am
Nole on Sat- Bucc on Sun Says:
February 20th, 2017 at 11:28 am
So y’all must’ve missed the part when the Comish said Jason Licht will be talking with ALL GMs in the league to gauge they’re interest in Dalvin Cook. Why so I would like to ask you all??? Don’t know about y’all but that smells like to me he would be trying to figure out what it’s going take to move up in the event he feels someone may be thinking of grabbing him before 19. Cringe til that facial expression sticks on your face. The writing is on the wall. DC is the main objective of the entire draft.
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That was all speculation.
February 20th, 2017 at 11:33 am
Lastly my bet offer will be good all summer long. Holla at me.
February 20th, 2017 at 11:34 am
@Nosbos
He should be doing his research on other teams interest. Now you have been saying for a while that teams shouldn’t show their hands too early. What if this is a smokescreen by Licht?
I’m not saying that is what it is, but you can’t rule it out.
February 20th, 2017 at 11:34 am
Do you have any feelers inside OneBucsPlace Blake???
February 20th, 2017 at 11:35 am
I believe the ONLY reason people want Martin gone is because they want a particular running back in this draft, and they feel the only way they’ll get him is if Martin is released.
This is a first time offense. players are almost never cut after one offense, unless they are depth.
As to his 3 bad years? Last year he had 50-50 on good vs bad years and no one cared. It’s just another justification now.
I look at it this way…keep him at a lower price if possible. At worst, he becomes a bridge player.
February 20th, 2017 at 11:35 am
No, and neither do you.
He said he wouldn’t be surprised, meaning it was speculative opinion on his part.
February 20th, 2017 at 11:36 am
If he ever makes public statement “we want Dalvin” that would be showing your hand. Buzz coming from the building is not showing your hand.
February 20th, 2017 at 11:37 am
Nole..I hate to say this, but we have 3 backs on our roster. Doug Martin, Peyton Barber, Charles Sims and Dirk Koetter want to re-sign Jacquizz Rodgers. That’s 4 RBs, I don’t see us drafting a RB in the 1st Round. They may not draft a RB at all. Even if they don’t blame Doug back we will still have 3 RBs on our roster before the draft. But I believe Koetter will bring Doug back.
February 20th, 2017 at 11:37 am
@Nole
Don’t be silly. What are you going to say when the pick comes if it isn’t Cook? You’re going to look mighty silly! The truth is, you want the guy really badly, and I respect that, but that doesn’t mean Licht does.
February 20th, 2017 at 11:37 am
I would still rather have a Pass Rusher at 19 but IF we go Offense then I am ALLLLLL IN on McCaffery
February 20th, 2017 at 11:37 am
Or doesn’t, I should add.
None of us really know what Jason Licht will do.
February 20th, 2017 at 11:38 am
Go back an relisten bro. He said “he would raise an eyebrow if they didn’t draft Dalvin”.
February 20th, 2017 at 11:39 am
Either one will work , but also I lean toward D Jax, he has game changing ability, can stretches the field , if we can add speed and game changing ability at RB as well , we will have a amazing offense and playoffs should be a given
February 20th, 2017 at 11:39 am
LakeLandBuc, Peyton Barber is expendable. Technically, so is Martin. It could go either way.
I personally subscribe to the ‘if you already have too many needs, don’t create more’ theory, but who knows which way it will go.
February 20th, 2017 at 11:39 am
Same thing, he revised it from I wouldnt be surprised, to I would raise an Eyebrow. Big whoop, no need to split hairs.
February 20th, 2017 at 11:39 am
Bonzai please that’s ridiculous none of jbf poster’s know me personally to overly concern myself wit being wrong bro.
February 20th, 2017 at 11:40 am
Nole…seriously…do you really believe ANYTHING you hear from a rep of the team before the draft?
February 20th, 2017 at 11:40 am
Dalvin won’t make it out of the top 10. Not after Mayock, Kiper, and every other televised scout has said they view him as the top back.
February 20th, 2017 at 11:41 am
I hear you, lol.
February 20th, 2017 at 11:42 am
No on vjax….we need speed so kenny stills is my choice.kenny britt is not a speedster but is a complete reciever. Get stills younger better long term solution really fast
February 20th, 2017 at 11:45 am
@Bonzai
I want Doug Martin gone for multiple reasons. First his injury history, 2nd he isn’t guaranteed any money. I don’t see the appeal in sticking with an injury prone RB who you don’t owe anything to.
If he was having a good season last year and still ended up getting suspended, a lot of people would be fine with keeping him. But he was hurt…. AGAIN. It’s time to move on from him while the organization has a “get out of jail free” card.
February 20th, 2017 at 11:47 am
He isn’t going anywhere, trust Joe.
February 20th, 2017 at 11:48 am
Joe can promise you that NFL GMs are not watching NFL Network or BSPN for their draft advice.
February 20th, 2017 at 11:49 am
If I tell you in one sentence early rumblings are saying this and in the next sentence say “I would raise an eyebrow if they didn’t”. H3ll to me sound like you would have some sort of connect inside providing you wit a little Intel giving you the confidence to make such a statement. Day after another person basically said the same thing. Thanks Gil. I guess they feel you and Comish are just boosting ratings.
February 20th, 2017 at 11:51 am
That’s like saying you can’t see the Bucs drafting a wide receiver because they have six on the roster.
February 20th, 2017 at 11:52 am
I personally wouldn’t say Gil and Commish ONLY talked about Dalvin Cook for “ratings”.
Lets face it tho. Dalvin Cook is the hot topic of the offseason lol
February 20th, 2017 at 11:52 am
Bonzai I find it hard to believe with as poor as our running game was last season that he wouldn’t be a high propriety. He played his ball right in the Bucs backyard. I’m sure they noticed.
February 20th, 2017 at 11:53 am
Draft speculation holds as much merit as strength of schedule. Any word out of any front office about any player today or even for the next month needs to be taken with a grain of salt. We thought Jameis was a slam dunk two years ago and it was later leaked that Mariota was still on the table leading up the week before.
There is way too much that is going to happen by that time and any dalvin talk could potentially be a smoke screen as well.
I respect the opinions of people who want doug gone and to draft a rb in round 1 but I must say, I HIGHLY DISAGREE. I do not believe nor agree that we should be using a first rounder on an rb with our current needs.
February 20th, 2017 at 11:55 am
While I agree that they don’t base their own opinions off of what is said by Television personalities, they have access to the same information.
Players rise and fall every year during this time of the year. One striking example I can think of, is when Teddy Bridgewater entered the 2014 offseason as the QB1. And sometime between scouts pouring over film with a fine toothed comb, and Bridgewaters poor pro day, and him skipping the combine, he dropped all the way to the 3rd Qb spot and was drafted 3rd.
Behind none other than Bumbling Blake Bortles, and Johnny 8Ball. Who improved their stock during the offseason, and all the talking heads were in agreement that the Jags and Browns had made the right move.
Not saying that Cook is going to bust, but he definitely could. And I can see a Rb needy team, like the Jags, Jets or Panthers taking him in the top 10.
February 20th, 2017 at 11:57 am
Blake you could argue that Cook played against cream puffs but you would be lying. Florida, Michigan, Clemson alone all had great defenses. When keep talking you dig a deeper hole sir.
February 20th, 2017 at 11:57 am
Joe Says:
February 20th, 2017 at 11:51 am
I don’t see us drafting a RB in the 1st Round. They may not draft a RB at all. Even if they don’t blame Doug back we will still have 3 RBs on our roster before the draft.
That’s like saying you can’t see the Bucs drafting a wide receiver because they have six on the roster.
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It’s also very similar to saying that you don’t see them drafting a top flight Tight end because we have one good one.
February 20th, 2017 at 11:58 am
Lol………..Johny 8ball!!!!……………..ROTFLMMFAO
February 20th, 2017 at 12:00 pm
Eric if you ever get a chance to meet Jason Licht personally. I want you to ask him one question. “Was mariota ever really being considered over Fameis”???
February 20th, 2017 at 12:02 pm
Ndog Says:
February 20th, 2017 at 11:57 am
Blake you could argue that Cook played against cream puffs but you would be lying. Florida, Michigan, Clemson alone all had great defenses. When keep talking you dig a deeper hole sir.
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http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/florida-state/2016/gamelog/
He played his best games against schools like USF,
February 20th, 2017 at 12:03 pm
Of course Licht would say no to that question Nosbos. How often do coaches/front office guys ever say anything bad about guys on their own team? lol
February 20th, 2017 at 12:06 pm
Pop the fact he drafted who he drafted answers that for me. But let me get this str8 Blake Dalvin has bust written on him but Howard is a sure thing why??? Because he went to bama???
February 20th, 2017 at 12:08 pm
Show us his numbers against UF,Clemson,Mia and Michigan Blake.
February 20th, 2017 at 12:09 pm
Of course. If he liked Mariota more than Winston he would’ve picked him lol
February 20th, 2017 at 12:10 pm
I’ve stated multiple times that nobody is a sure thing.
But to my knowledge, O.J. Howard has 0 significant injuries in his history.
Where Dalvin has had his shoulders surgically repaired multiple times.
February 20th, 2017 at 12:14 pm
Mind you we were inches from beating this years national champion just based off the strength of Dalvin.
February 20th, 2017 at 12:15 pm
Can we see the numbers Blake. You can talk shoulders all the way up to draft night. Tell us all how many games he missed as result of those bad shoulders.
February 20th, 2017 at 12:18 pm
Doesn’t make the injured shoulders disappear dude. It’s not like his body will be enduring less physical punishment at the next level.
February 20th, 2017 at 12:26 pm
WK OPP ATT RUYD TTD
9 CLEM 19 169 4 (National Champs)
13 FLA 26 153 1 (2nd best SEC defense)
POSTSEASON-FSU
BOWL MICH 20 145 1 (Best Big 10 defense and top 5 team.)
And this does not even take into account his receiving yards. All done with a redshirt freshman qb and basically no NFL quality WR on the field.
February 20th, 2017 at 12:28 pm
Still not worth trading away picks.
February 20th, 2017 at 12:30 pm
So yes Blake he did rush for 200+ vs USF but I will take smaller size domination over these power programs listed above as well. Show me another RB with numbers like that against those quality of defenses and then we will have a valid debate. Again these numbers don’t even include receiving yards which is what makes him special and they are still awesome.
February 20th, 2017 at 12:34 pm
Thanks Ndog cause Blake wasn’t gone do it.
February 20th, 2017 at 12:34 pm
I do not understand those who claim drafting any RB in the first round is a waste.’
So are we to believe poster who claim that or NFL brass who ignore those posters?
You can simply look at the history of RB’s drafted in the past….
http://drafthistory.com/index.php/positions/rb
2006 Four were taken in the first round
2007 Two in the first round…AP and Marshawn Lynch
2008 FIVE taken in the first round
2009 Three in the first round
2010 Three in the first round
2011 One in the first round
2012 Three in the first round including our own “Muscle Turtle”
2013 None taken in the first…LeVeon Bell in the 2nd…would he be worth a 1st?
2014 None in the first
2015 Two in the first
2016 One in the first
In the past 11 drafts RB’s were taken in the first round in all but two drafts.
In six of those drafts MULTIPLE RB’s were taken in the first round and one year FIVE were selected.
If you add up the numbers you’ll see that RB’s represented about 8% of all first round draft picks. And so were the NFL types who made all those picks stupid?
I mean besides us for taking the “Muscle Turtle” in the first.
Does anybody wish to wager whether there will be at least two maybe three backs go in the first this year? Why would that happen if it’s such an OBVIOUSLY bad move? Why are we even worried about getting Dalvin at 19 if no RB’s are worth taking in the first?
February 20th, 2017 at 12:35 pm
We agree on that Blake but I still want everyone to understand the quality of player we are talking about here. But yes RBs lifespan makes it hard to give up multiple picks and it be worth it. But if he is somehow there at 19 we better take him.
February 20th, 2017 at 12:36 pm
And the only thing you left out Ndog was the youth on our O line. 6 different o line combinations last season.
February 20th, 2017 at 12:39 pm
Great questions Pete. That last line.
February 20th, 2017 at 12:50 pm
I SAY..Go after Deshaun Jackson. He’s proven and still has a lot left in his tank.
Not many rooks at pick 19 will have an immediate impact. And the receivers we want? Will be off the board. Bring back Doug Martin. He’s gonna have a chip on his shoulder and will play lights out this upcoming season. And if possible…trade down to get a 2 for 1 deal. There are many good players in this draft.
February 20th, 2017 at 12:55 pm
Also and this is no knock on your guy but I agree with Comish in his comparison between Howard and Greg Olsen more so than Howard and Rob Gronkowski.
February 20th, 2017 at 1:05 pm
@Stpete
It’s not that RBs “aren’t worth a 1st round pick” it’s that RBs can be found anywhere in the draft. Lets break down the years you picked out.
2006: 4 in the 1st, the 6th RB drafted was Maurice Jones-Drew who had more success than the 4 1st rounders
2007: 2 in the 1st, nobody in that draft can touch those 2 guys, but Pierre Thomas went undrafted and he was a solid RB for the Saints
2008: 5 in the 1st, Matt Forte, Ray Rice, and Jamaal Charles all went after them. Justin Forsett was a 7th rounder and Danny Woodhead went undrafted.
2009: 3 in the 1st, Lesean McCoy was the 4th RB taken, Rashad Jenning was a 7th rounder and Arian Foster went undrafted.
2010: 3 in the 1st, Legarrette Blount went undrafted (we all know why). That draft class of RBs was actually pretty bad lol
2011: 1 in the 1st, DeMarco Murray went in the 3rd round
2012: 3 in the 1st, Lamar Miller went in the 4th and Alfred Morris in the 6th.
2013: Yes, Le’Veon Bell might be worth a 1st, but he wasn’t a 1st. That same year Latavius Murray went in the 6th and CJ Anderson went undrafted.
2014: 0 in the 1st, and Devonta Freeman was a 4th rounder
2015: 2 in the 1st, David Johnson in the 3rd, Jay Ajayi in the 5th, Thomas Rawls undrafted
2016: 1 in the 1st, Jordan Howard was 2nd in the league in rushing and went in the 5th
There are success stories of RBs being drafted in later rounds seemingly every year. So when somebody says a 1st round pick on a RB is a “waste” that is why.
February 20th, 2017 at 1:08 pm
If I could go and get Jameis a Greg Olson to pair with Mike Evans and Cam Brate, I’d do it in a heartbeat. Without a second thought.
Especially if I could still get Curtis Samuel, and A guy like Kareem Hunt or Sameje Perine in the 3rd round.
February 20th, 2017 at 1:13 pm
Bonzai
I think Joey probably addressed this but AGAIN…nobody is that torqued about the “Muscle Turtle’s” Molly use. It was a betrayal of his team in need but I could get past that…as you say ONE offense.
But how do we get past the 60% of the time he was USELESS!!! How do we get past the times in 15 running behind a good line he was sprung into the secondary only to consistently get hauled down from behind?
He has 11 runs of over 40 yards and only 29 runs over 20 yards in his entire five years with us. What about him excites you? In his good years he was only good not great..in his three horrid years he was useless. That’s why I want him gone…not because of off field stuff but because of on field stuff.
February 20th, 2017 at 1:20 pm
I will leave these questions open for anyone to answer since hindsight is 20/20.
In 2006 what is a better pick? Reggie Bush in the top 5 or MJD in the 2nd round?
In 2008 what is a better pick? Chris Johnson 24th overall or Jamaal Charles 73rd overall?
In 2009 what would’ve been a better pick? Knowshon Moreno 12th overall, Lesean McCosy in the 2nd round, or Arian Foster in the 7th round?
In 2010 what would’ve been a better pick? Ryan Mathews 12th overall or taking a chance on Blount in the 7th round?
In 2011 what would’ve been a better pick? Mark Ingram 28th overall or DeMarco Murray 71st overall?
In 2012 what would’ve been a better pick? Doug Martin in the 1st or Lamar Miller in the 4th?
In 2013 what would’ve been a better pick? Getting a top 3 back in the 2nd (Bell) or a top 15 back in the 6th (Lat Murray)?
In 2015: what would’ve been a better pick? Melvin Gordon 15th overall, David Johnson in the 3rd round, or Ajayi in the 5th round.
In 2016 what would’ve been a better pick? Zeke in the top 5 or the guy who was 2nd behind him with only 13 starts in the 5th round?
February 20th, 2017 at 1:27 pm
Pryor or Djax, Jpp,Poe, draft Dalvin and Dede all set!!
February 20th, 2017 at 1:40 pm
Joey
I can do the exact same thing with every position on the field including QB.
Tom Brady in the 6th…yadda yadda…pick ANY position and you can make that argument.
We are talking about odds here. NO player…NO position is a sure thing in ANY draft…EVERY position has examples of successful players who were drafted in later round or not even drafted!!! Johnny Unitas was taken in the 9th round back in the day and quickly released by the Steelers before ending up with the Colts and a HOF career.
No one is suggesting that there are NEVER good players at any position…why did we pick ME13 in the top ten when Antonio Brown went after 21 WR’s before him…late in the draft.
All we are saying is that RB is the SAME as other positions….the higher you pick the greater chance you have for success. It’s not an accident that AP and Marshawn Lynch both went in the first round. Did they perform well enough to justify those picks. I think so. We could play this…the find some in the later rounds forever and with virtually every position although most teams gamble more on QB’s than any other position because of their value.
If you wish to “increase the odds” for success at any position you simply do it by drafting earlier…no guarantee but the best bet.
If you doubt that simply check out this link and where the HOF RB’s were drafted. It even surprised me…more HOF QB’s…if you count Brady..a lock..were taken late than RB’s. In fact NOT ONE HOF RB was selected out of the first round! Teams run the ball 40% of the time…Dirk a little more…RBs touch it 15-20X a game…so let’s see where the really great RB’s get drafted.
EVERY ONE of them was in the first round and this is where they went overall..
Jim Brown 6th
O.J. 1st
Csonka 8th
John Riggins 6th
Walter Payton 4th
Tony Dorsett 2nd
Eric Dickerson 2nd
Emmitt Smith 17th
Jerome Bettis 10th
Marshall Faulk 2nd
That even amazed me!! Only Emmitt Smith out of the top ten much less out of the first round. BTW those are guys from the 60’s forward…Bronko Nagurski doesnt count lmao.
If you want to play ya gotta pay.
http://www.profootballhof.com/heroes-of-the-game/hall-of-famers-by-draft-round/
Oops missed the legendary Earl Campbell who went #1 overall. Was he a wasted pick? And can you say Donta Foreman the Texas RB who broke Campbell’s record.
February 20th, 2017 at 1:45 pm
Stpete, Terrel Davis is a HOF Rb, and he wasn’t selected in the first round.
February 20th, 2017 at 1:47 pm
https://www.joebucsfan.com/2017/01/data-says-wait-running-back/
And this chart here proves very easily that Running back is not the same as every other position. It’s far more likely to find a competent starting running back outside of the first round than it is to find any other position.
February 20th, 2017 at 1:53 pm
Also it appears a few HOF Rb’s were selected outside the first.
Curtis Martin and Thurman Thomas being more recent, and then few old timey old timers.
February 20th, 2017 at 1:57 pm
RB isn’t like other positions tho. The NFL is a pass first league 60-40 split in pass-run as you pointed out.
There isn’t a demand in the league right now for top tier RBs and it is clear by the way a lot of teams are shifting towards the committee approach. Which is why RBs fall every year. Yes they are the same as every position in the sense that the better prospects go first, obviously.
And those HOFers all played in a different era than the one we are in now. The game has changed and teams win off the arms of the QBs more so than the legs of their RBs.
And we drafted Mike Evans in the top 10 over Antonio Brown in the 5th round because Brown was drafted 5 years prior lol.
February 20th, 2017 at 2:00 pm
Blake
Correction noted…that link only went to 97 and Davis got in later…THE ONLY HOFER TO NOT go not only in the first round…most of them went in the top ten and several were #1 overall.
That chart you just supplied was more statistical mumbo jumbo….I realize you have a hard on for OJ…that’s fine…perhaps he’s the best pick. I prefer Dalvin or McCaffery as you know.
But my point here is not about the specific players in this draft but rather the overall absurd prospect that great RB’s are not worth a 1st round pick. AGAIN….why are all the HOF RB’s first rounders…Davis excepted…and he had a brief career behind an incredible OL.
It doesn’t matter which position…if you want a “shot” at greatness you are better off…the odds are in your favor…if you pick them higher in the draft.
When you go to the racetrack do you bet all longshots? Longshots pay the big money and sometimes you can get lucky. I simply prefer to make the safest bet on a position that can contribute immediately.
That btw is something we haven’t even discussed. Which positions contribute the quickest…RB…WR…where raw skill is critical and intricate schemes like the OL or QB’s must absorb are not so important.
Even if OJ is all that do you expect any TE to come in next year and have the same impact as a stud RB in year one? Two? Or perhaps three? Do we think we can win THIS year?
February 20th, 2017 at 2:10 pm
Somewhere, Doug Martin is reading this, crying.
February 20th, 2017 at 2:15 pm
Ok. I do not have a ” hard on ” for O.J. Howard, just think that if we were lucky enough for him to fall, he would be a phenomenal pick.
And yes, I firmly believe that in todays era of the NFL, Dominant Tight ends impact the game more than most top running backs. A running back might get more touches out right, but a true all around weapon at tight end can have a positive impact for your offense on nearly every snap.
And as I stated earlier in this thread, were O.J. not available, I would be more than happy selecting Christian McCaffrey, because he is a versatile weapon as well. Not only does he show skills running in between the tackles, I think he can line up as a receiver on any given play too. Which would be great considering that Quizz IS a solid running back that has earned his touches as well. Throw his dual threat skills on offense in with the fact that he could be an electric return man for us.
That would be some tremendous value. At the same time, I wouldnt be mad if we were to draft a Stud DE or Safety with our top pick. And I certainly wouldnt be averse to trading back. We have a ton of options. I just really hope one of them isn’t trading up for a RB unnecessarily.
February 20th, 2017 at 2:17 pm
That’s why I privately I call you the Lord of Ring’s “Gandolf the Grey” Pete. You always droping science. Preach!!!
February 20th, 2017 at 2:23 pm
I’m trying to think of position with a easier transition from the college level to the pros.. Not WR alot of time it takes those guys a year or so to deal with pro press coverage.
February 20th, 2017 at 2:26 pm
@NosBos it’s a crapshoot. You got development guys, and immediate impact guys at every position.
Like in 2014 where Mike Evans, OBJ, Allen Robinson, Allen Hurns, And Jarvis Landry all took the Nfl by storm.
February 20th, 2017 at 2:26 pm
@BuccaneerBonzai … “None of us really know what Jason Licht will do.” Best line of the day Bonzai. Matter of fact, I’d go you one further: Jason Licht doesn’t know at this point what Jason Licht will do in the draft. Until free agency plays out, how could he?
February 20th, 2017 at 2:28 pm
Good point Blake but most of those guys were taken in the first and graded out as first round talent. That’s why you make me scratch my head with this notion that Dalvin will somehow be a bust.
February 20th, 2017 at 2:31 pm
That may be fact Defense but it is not too early to realize your running game was impotent last season. Therefore”eyeing closely” like we’ve been told a particular RB wouldn’t be nonsense if you ask me.
February 20th, 2017 at 2:32 pm
The highest graded player in Daniel Jeremiah’s career as a scout was Reggie Bush. Safe to say Reggie Bush was a bust.
Nobody knows how prospects will turn out as a pro.
February 20th, 2017 at 2:37 pm
Robinson, Hurns and Landry were all drafted after the second round tho.
And Bro, I’m sorry to tell you this, but it all stems from that fact that I do not see him staying healthy at the next level. He has a skinny frame, and a checkered injury history already. Throw that in with the tremendous workload he expended playing at FSU, 766 touches before throwing in plays in pass pro, and I can see him getting dinged up in the NFL.
Yeah, he didn’t miss a game in college, but if He required surgery to get healthy in the offseason, that tells me it was because his body was beginning to breakdown and needed to be repaired.
Keep in mind, the NFL season is longer than it is in college. And for the most part, the dudes playing D are all bigger, stronger, and faster than their college counter parts. So why would his body hold up better against a longer more violent season?
This is what scares me about drafting Dalvin Cook.
February 20th, 2017 at 2:37 pm
Man, oh man, you have absolutely no use for a guy who in his third year led league in TDs for a tight end. smh
February 20th, 2017 at 2:39 pm
Guess we’ll soon see if that scares Jason Licht now won’t we. And that was reggie bush him being inadequate on the pro level had exactly what to do with Dalvin Cook???
February 20th, 2017 at 2:40 pm
Blows my mind everytime I read it as well.
February 20th, 2017 at 2:42 pm
Joe why are you trolling me bro? How many times do I have to tell you that I love Cameron Brate for you to get off my case bro. Lol.
I’ve explained to you numerous times that in my perspective getting another force at Tight end is only going to help Cam and Mike get open more often.
And that I’ve seen every snap of Jameis’ pro career and know that he is more successful throwing to guys with a large catch radius. Throw in the fact that the kid is a punishing blocker that would put in work in the running game.
Getting O.J. Howard would be a win, win ,win.
February 20th, 2017 at 2:43 pm
The man says he wants explosiveness. ME,Deshean,Sameuls(Or Ardarius)Brate and Mr. Dalvin. That’s the definition of explosiveness.
February 20th, 2017 at 2:45 pm
Because you said “most of those guys were taken in the first and graded out as first round talent. That’s why you make me scratch my head with this notion that Dalvin will somehow be a bust.”
Which I took as you think that Dalvin being a 1st round talent means there is no way he can be a bust.
So I pointed out how the highest graded player ever of a well respected guy in the draft business in Daniel Jeremiah was a bust. That’s all.
February 20th, 2017 at 2:45 pm
Can someone give us a graph on how much two TE sets coach K ran while in Atl with Gonzalez.
February 20th, 2017 at 2:45 pm
anything is possible
February 20th, 2017 at 2:47 pm
Okay I got you Pop. Time will tell us all here shortly. I’m willing wager whatever on him not. But I can be patient. I’ll be reminding y’all next season about this bust talk trust me.
February 20th, 2017 at 2:48 pm
Give me the winning power ball numbers while you’re at there Nosbos.
February 20th, 2017 at 2:49 pm
But I hear folks mentioning two TE sets. Does Koetter have a history with that. Joe if you don’t mind or anyone else that frequents Bucs practices. Did you see much of that with Brate an ASJ at any time???
February 20th, 2017 at 2:50 pm
You crazy long as I been trying to hit.
February 20th, 2017 at 2:52 pm
@NosBos I remember seeing a whole lot of 2 TE sets week 1 vs ATL when we ripped them a new one.
Also recall a bunch of Cam Brate Td’s come out of 2 TE sets in the redzone.
February 20th, 2017 at 2:52 pm
I don’t think he will be a bust. I think he can and will be a very good feature back for what ever team he ends up on.
And yes, that offense lineup you posted would be an explosive one. However so can:
Mike Evans
Cam Brate
Pierre Garcon
Taywan Taylor
Alvin Kamra
or
Mike Evans
Cam Brate
Kenny Stills
Malachi Dupre
Kareem Hunt
There is a lot of different combos to inject explosiveness into this team. That is why I am against trading up for 1 guy because we don’t have to rely on 1 specific guy in this draft. That’s just me tho
February 20th, 2017 at 2:52 pm
I am listening to the Commish’s podcast and what stuck out to me the most is ” If we could get Perine in the 3rd and Mack in the 4th I would be like OH FCK YES!
February 20th, 2017 at 2:54 pm
@Joey Im a no on Kamara, and a go for McCaffrey. Bigger sample size, and more impressive vision/ playmaking ability in my eyes.
February 20th, 2017 at 2:59 pm
McCaffery has no injury history to raise flags, Is a Three Headed Spear, Unbelievable work ethic, and Superior Genes. If we go Offense in the first that is who I want.
February 20th, 2017 at 3:00 pm
I would take McCaffrey over Kamara too. McCaffrey is in a weird spot for me at this moment tho. #19 for him might be a reach of a pick, but I dont think he lasts to #50 in the 2nd round.
I disagree with Daniel Jeremiah in that I think Kamara will be a 2nd round pick and could be there at #50.
February 20th, 2017 at 3:01 pm
I’m no on Hunt. Nothing about him jumps out to me.
February 20th, 2017 at 3:02 pm
@Nosbos did you see him tear up the senior bowl?
February 20th, 2017 at 3:03 pm
See now y’all might like this but McCaffery remind me an awful lot of reggie bush. Body type, the multiple ways he was used in school. But no one sees him as a potential bust right… Rrriiiggghtt.
February 20th, 2017 at 3:03 pm
On the political side of things the Russian Ambassador to the UN just died suddenly in NYC
February 20th, 2017 at 3:03 pm
He is just a really good in between the tackles runner, with great vision, and excellent balance through contact.
He would be great value in the 3rd.
February 20th, 2017 at 3:03 pm
I watched the senior bowl but he didn’t jump off the screen in my opinion.
February 20th, 2017 at 3:05 pm
Nobody thought Bush would be a bust either. Which is why he was a top 5 pick
February 20th, 2017 at 3:07 pm
I’m betting that the Bucs will go big in free agency this year, yet be very strategic in terms of who they target and focus on impact players who can help them make a run for the NFC South crown. Gut-feel FA prediction for the Bucs:
Re-sign … Total cost: $20 mil
DE (Will Gholston)
DT (Akeem Spence)
Safety (Bradley McDougald)
LB (Daryl Smith)
CB (Josh Robinson)
RB (Jaquizz Rodgers)
WR (Russell Shepherd)
C (Joe Hawley)
Add … Total cost: $30 mil
#2 WR (Desean Jackson).
DE (Calais Campbell)
Safety (Tony Jefferson)
Tackle (Matt Kalil)
In the draft, Bucs will target RB, WR, TE, DE, Safety, DT, OL. Gut-feel.
February 20th, 2017 at 3:09 pm
A lot of people are making the Reggie Bush comparison. I don’t really see it. Yes they were both Triple threat guys, but I think McCaffrey is more patient as a runner, with exceptional short area quickness, smooth feet, and an arsenal of jukes and moves at his disposal.
Watch his game vs Iowa where he has Desmond King ( highly ranked Safety prospect ) seeing ghosts. Kid broke Barry Sanders Record for all purpose yards, and I believe he could be a year one impact player for us.
Where bush was more of an outside runner, and a screen catcher. With really good burst and track star speed. And while Bush may have been a reach in the first, I don’t view him as an out right bust. Only because he helped the saints reach the super bowl and that counts for something. But thats just IMO.
February 20th, 2017 at 3:10 pm
And to me, the injuries is what really derailed Reggie Bush. His left knee is a mess.
February 20th, 2017 at 3:11 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSYMQSjUra8
Hunt wasn’t perfect by any means, but he definitely flashes some skills as a play-maker.
February 20th, 2017 at 3:15 pm
Reggie Bush 6’0 203lbs Christian McCaffery 6’1 201lbs. They look the same on film to me.
February 20th, 2017 at 3:18 pm
because of their size? lol
February 20th, 2017 at 3:19 pm
Like i said, its a subtle difference, But Christian is a more patient in between the tackles runner with quickness. And Reggie was a speedster who would almost always bounce it outside.
February 20th, 2017 at 4:31 pm
This is easy.
We already have a jersey for Jackson, just have to change the #.
February 20th, 2017 at 4:49 pm
This the thing tho Blake and I’m not trying to start wit you bro. But Dalvin 5’11 215lbs and you feel he’s skinny. Christian McCaffery 6’1 201lbs. If you take McCaffery you making him your feature??? I kinda feel Reggie didn’t quite pan out because they like Hybrid players or tweeners. Not all the way RB but not quite built for WR.
February 20th, 2017 at 4:51 pm
No Pop because of they’re playing styles they look the same bro. You brought up Reggie Bush. I feel they are similar. So if Dalvin is potential bust why exactly is McCaffery not. Considering he resembles a guy that was to be quite honest in a lot people’s eyes a bust.
February 20th, 2017 at 4:52 pm
I think Christian Has the bigger wider frame though.
And doesn’t have the same surgical history as Dalvin. Plus as Joey already pointed out, the only reason people view Reggie as not panning out was due to his injuries.
And I think that there are plenty cases of 6’1 200 pound honkey receivers working out. New England just won the ‘chip with 3 of them.
February 20th, 2017 at 5:07 pm
Dalvin Cook will be healthy long enough to help this team win a SB. That’s the way I’m looking at it. Not worried about injury history. This team to me is closer than most Buc fans think. Closer meaning, not just playoffs.
Dalvin Cook will be healthy long enough to help this team win a SB.
February 20th, 2017 at 5:09 pm
“honkey” receivers…. smh
Anyway I can see that argument with McCaffrey panning out as Reggie Bush. I do agree with Blake about the subtle differences in their styles. However teams can’t be afraid to draft someone because someone with a similar style to that player didn’t work out. Every player is different.
I do disagree with him about Dalvin Cook’s size. Actually according to some of the experts, Cook has the perfect size.
Daniel Jeremiah says an ideal size for RBs is 5′ 11″ 215 lbs 4.51 speed. Cook checks all those boxes.
Todd McShay says he likes RBs that are slightly under 6′ 0″ around 220 lbs which Cook is also pretty close to.
And the main knock on McCaffrey is his weight. Apparently his coaches believe he could build up into the 210 lbs range, but don’t want him to add on too much in fear that he could lose some of the things that make him as good as he is.
February 20th, 2017 at 6:12 pm
87 we think alike. If I can get a supetbpwl or two out of you to h3ll wit shelf life.
February 20th, 2017 at 7:51 pm
I’m going on Record and say that the Bucs will not draft a RB in rounds 1-4.
February 20th, 2017 at 8:24 pm
LakeLand….noted.
February 20th, 2017 at 8:35 pm
Buc1987..I’m not backing down from my prediction.
February 20th, 2017 at 9:49 pm
Now that’s funny.