Bias Against Safeties
February 5th, 2017
Victim of bias.
It is clear to Joe that in the room of Pro Football Hall of Fame selectors, choosing a safety is a difficult task.
After former Bucs great John Lynch was (again) snubbed last night in the vote for the Class of 2017, it’s obvious there is a bias against safeties.
Lynch was first a final-15 finalist in 2014. He is now the lone person from that group of 15 not (yet?) going to Canton after Morten Andersen was elected yesterday — a kicker who had little to no impact on his teams’ successes, save for one kick in the 1998 NFC championship game. One friggin’ kick!
Joe’s research shows a grand total of seven full-time safeties in the Pro Football Hall of Fame. By comparison, this summer when the Class of 2017 is enshrined, there will be four kickers in Canton — four!
So there are more than half as many kickers in Canton, part-time players, as there are safeties? You mean to tell Joe in the proud 96-year history of the NFL only seven safeties have been deemed worthy of the Pro Football Hall of Fame?
This is just nonsense!
February 5th, 2017 at 8:11 am
It sucks but at least Lynch didnt get snubbed over Dawkins.
February 5th, 2017 at 8:16 am
Him taking the g m job is probably going to slow things down a bit. Its going to happen and now its going to take longer
February 5th, 2017 at 8:39 am
There is a bias against safeties because they mainly tackle and cover deep.
If safeties were as valuable as Left Tackles…DE’s…DT’s…obviously QB’s there would be more of them in the HOF
And so if you look at salaries…hey it’s America…show me the money…and Capitalism rules…money talks…to determine the actual value of a POSITION as judged by the NFL…safeties are just not that valuable.
Even in the defensive backfield they are not paid nearly what CB’s make.
Top CB’s make 15 million a year…11 CB’s made over 10 million with another 4 earning right at 10 mlllion.
Safeties OTOH simply do not earn that kind of jack. Only 4 safeties topped the 10 million mark with one more at 9.5. Richard Sherman makes 40% more as the Seahawks CB than Earl Thomas at Safety.
Bottom line is that the LEAGUE values safeties far less than even CB’s and if you toss in the really high paid positions…QB…WR…DL ..LB’s…LT’s all earn waaay more than safeties.
Conclusion…if safety as a position is simply not that valuable relative to the other positions it only stands to reason they would not be valued as much later on when HOF voters weigh in.
I’m no football expert. Until I looked at salaries I did not realize how relatively little value the league places on safeties compared to the other positions. If safeties are paid that much less it means they are in a position that simply cannot contribute as much as others.
February 5th, 2017 at 8:45 am
Of course there is a bias!! You just have to look at Steve Atwater who is not in the Hall, who should have been the 8th safety in the hall!!!!
February 5th, 2017 at 8:50 am
BTW I see a silver lining in this. Ronde deserves to be in the HOF far more than Lynch. If Lynch makes it before Ronde I fear a prejudice will build against so many players from one team…then again perhaps since that defense is one of the all time great units maybe it won’t have any effect.
I just believe Ronde should be a lock…he’s put up some freakish numbers over a long and successful career.
One thing about both Lynch and Ronde is how dependable they were. I can’t remember the number of times these guys were not in the lineup and in the training room with injuries.
February 5th, 2017 at 9:08 am
There is no justification that a kicker should get in ahead of Lynch and also Jason Taylor on a first ballot, as well as Terrell Davis who really only played 4 seasons. It’s an outrage.
February 5th, 2017 at 9:09 am
The three NFL network lovelies made it cause all week long they were talked up by programming, the only one of the three that should have made it was LT, the other only in cause they’re media darlings, the HOF is all about media smuchers not real players who have IMPACT in the game. Lynch was more deserving than 4 of the five moderns who were elected. If players voted Lynch would for sure have a gold jacket.
February 5th, 2017 at 9:40 am
As usual Mr. Realist is dead on. NO other safety should be enshrined until Atwater is in. Total Shame…
It would be easier for Lynch to have been enshrined if he was not playing for such an underachieving team led by a hypocritical, one dimensional, stubborn FOOL with a CAREER losing playoff record who could not field even a BAD offense. Dungy cost the bucs at least one super bowl and the colts at least one yet that bum gets in the Hall of Fame over more qualified and deserving coaches especially the Tom Flores the first minority to win a super bowl. Too bad Lynch had to play for such a mediocre one dimensional coach in Tampa. For a team that only won one super bowl and underachieved in the playoffs they are lucky to get three in
February 5th, 2017 at 9:44 am
its kind of comical buc fans complaining over Lynch getting snubbed especially when the Hall of Fame LOST all credibility putting another former buc in before more deserving coaches. Karma
The legend of Dungy surpassed his actual accomplishments long ago!
February 5th, 2017 at 9:55 am
Lynch is in my HOF.
I don’t need to see some sculpted bust of him to tell me that.
I’ll wait and I’ll wait some more.
February 5th, 2017 at 10:07 am
I agree with St Pete. Also, no way Lynch should get in ahead of Atwater, as far as safety, and Simeon Rice as far as Bucaneers. He had some great hits, so did Jack Tatum, if ypu want to talk feared hitters in the secondary , Tatum ranks ahead of Lynch. And yeah, he wrote a stupid book, the hit on Stinglley was legal at the time. And dont give me he was turd for a human, so is Sapp and the original LT.
February 5th, 2017 at 10:09 am
I’m telling you. Lynch is being snubbed for his reputation as a Punishing hitter.
February 5th, 2017 at 10:11 am
And I also agree with Tmax , if Dungy wasnt a stubborn fool, we would have been in more Super Bowls. If we could have put out something that even resembled and NFL offense we would have and should have beaten the Greatest Show on Turf. No one geld them to less than 11 points that year in that dome.But we did, and could only muster 6 points against an average defense.
February 5th, 2017 at 10:12 am
Held
February 5th, 2017 at 10:16 am
I always believed that a HOF should have been a player who redefined the position or made a large impact on the game. Jason Taylor does NOT meet that standard. John Lynch might be snubbed because his style of play is no longer allowed in the new NFL.
February 5th, 2017 at 10:18 am
Lynch is getting snubbed because Dungy choked in the playoffs and could NEVER field a offense that was even bad… For a Team to get in multiple players enshrined that team must win more consistently. Bucs were a great defense on a bad football team with mediocre to poor results. They were glory years to us die hard buc fans but compared to other great teams bucs underachieved due to irresponsible leadership and poor coaching from dungy. Truth Sucks! Lynch was a great player next with once in a lifetime great in Sapp and a consistently great Brooks so he’s fairly lucky to be a finalist given the results the bucs produced. It’s still about wins and loses and if bucs would have won more playoff games / superbowls under the mediocre stubborn fool Lynch would be in. Sapp and Brooks get in even on a loser. Barber, Lynch and Rice needed the bucs to Win one more bowl to ensure their enshrinement. Once again it really is meaningless the hall of fame is a joke now that dungy gets in ahead of much more deserving coaches.
February 5th, 2017 at 10:19 am
Their lowest point total at Trans World before that NFC championship game was 27 points, the first game of the year. After that 31 , than 34 or more in the other 6 home games. We held them to one friggiing td and couldnt beat them, d..n shame, should have been at least two Super Bowls with that D, and we would have crushed the Titans that year. We woukd have put in maybe five players from that D if we would have beat the Rams that year.
February 5th, 2017 at 10:26 am
I think not enough attention is paid to that fact about the Rams and what we did to them. In 8 regular season and one playoff game , they averaged 36.6 points per gamme. They had just scored 49 the week before against the Vikings! And we held them to one td…..frigging sad, we should have had two Super Bowls, our great players on D pay the price for a s…tty offense and stubborn head coach.
February 5th, 2017 at 10:55 am
Steve Atwater
John Lynch
Ed Reed
Troy PAlumalu
Kenny Easley
forget the position and just watch football.
They all had an impact to deemed HOF worthy.
Easley is the most borderline to me.
February 5th, 2017 at 11:00 am
First of all, Thank you Ira Kaufman for the extremely hard work that you have put in!!!!!! You were tasked with an impossible job of getting a boarderline player in at safety!!!! But now that is over, we can focus on to the important task of getting the greatest player to wear a Bucs jersey into the Hall of Fame,,, Mr Rhonde Barber!!!!!!!
That is all that matters now!!!!! is getting the true Hall of Famer into were he belongs!!!!!!!
Go Ira!!!!!!!
And GO Bucs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
February 5th, 2017 at 11:04 am
The Buc Realist
Greatest buc ever. great debate as always. I’ll give Ronde as the MOST consistent and reliable buc of all time. Yes, even over brooks. But I have to correct your fine sir, Sapp is the greatest buc of all time followed by Selmon.
February 5th, 2017 at 11:08 am
Realist
One thing that I believe we both agree on 100% is the fact NFL Television or Television in general is better when Warren Sapp is on air.
Sapp is a great role model for folks who need 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th,7th chances. Get the QB Kila back on TV NFL Network Screw the PC Police they and the networks are too busy with Trump to notice Sapp back on TV. It’s all clear!
February 5th, 2017 at 11:38 am
Sapp
Selmon
Ronde
Brooks
Lynch
My top 5 and I only saw highlights of Selmon. Sapp might be tied with him for me had I lived in Florida back then.
Ronde made the pick against the Eagles for the dagger. Nuff said. No stats needed for me.
February 5th, 2017 at 11:40 am
THAT!
That INT will forever be etched in Buc fans brains until the day they DIE!
February 5th, 2017 at 12:01 pm
I thought I would calm down over night but I am still p!ssed off!! I really can’t believe Lynch didn’t get in. But the HOF has a problem on its hands. Brian Dawkins, Ed Reed, Troy Palomoulo don’t go in if John Lynch doesn’t. Now what?
February 5th, 2017 at 12:07 pm
John Lynch got snubbed because John lynch didn’t have an Hall of Fame career. During 15 seasons in the NFL, John Lynch had 1,054 Tackles, 26 INT, 13 Sacks. That averages about 70 Tackles, 1.6 INT and 0.8 Sacks per season. John Lynch made 9 Pro Bowl because of his hard hits. His stats are not Hall of Fame worthy for a SS.
February 5th, 2017 at 12:19 pm
There may be a bias against safeties but I don’t think using kickers selected is a good comparison or rationale to make the point.
There have been 4 kickers/punters selected……that position is unique and somewhat stands alone. Only one punter (Ray Guy) was selected….the other three were kickers and that is a scoring position.
Safeties have to compete against 21 other position players.
For me, the comparison doesn’t make much sense.
After all….there are no long snappers in the Hall of Fame….what an injustice!!!
February 5th, 2017 at 12:21 pm
John Lynch was a good to very good safety. By comparison Ed Reed was a great safety from day one. Now can you compare John to Ed ? It’s not even close. I’m a bus fan and I am the voice of reason. John was very good not great.
February 5th, 2017 at 12:29 pm
22 Head Coaches are in the Hall of Fame including Tony Dungy. But Marty Schottenheimer and his 206-139-1 record as a HC. How can a Head Coach win over 200 games in the NFL and not be in the Hall of Fame? There’s 22 Head Coaches in the Hall of Fame. And Marty Scottenheimer is 6th in All-Time wins for Head Coaches, but he’s not in the Hall of Fame. So 17 Head Coaches are in the Hall of Fame with less wins than Marty Schottenheimer.
February 5th, 2017 at 12:33 pm
The Hall of Fame should expand open spots to get into the Hall. Why make deserving players still waiting years wait longer for entry? It does not make sense to me. If the players are nominated, put them all in without the voting theatrics. Is it going to diminish from the top line players already enshrined? I don’t see why it would. Build another wing onto the Hall. The more the merrier.TV talking heads like Dungy going in, no thanks.
February 5th, 2017 at 12:50 pm
There was a Safety that was elected to the Hall of Fame last night. SS Kenny Easley of the Seattle Seahawks was voted in last night. He was a Senior’s Committee Nominee ( former players who have been out of football at least 25 years).
February 5th, 2017 at 1:00 pm
Some heavy greasing of skids to shove Dungy into the Hall. Based on what? I must of missed it.
February 5th, 2017 at 1:08 pm
The hard reality is teams didn’t have to game plan for Lynch as the primary concern…He was a very good player that took advantage of opportunities created by Sapp, Rice, and Brooks. You then had Barber who mastered how to manipulate the Tampa 2 against opposing passers…Lynch was the benefactor of a their efforts and did an excellent job but he didn’t change a teams focus like a Polamalu.
February 5th, 2017 at 1:17 pm
While I agree that Lynch didn’t have the stats, I’ll frame my argument like this: In order to get a lot of stats, a player has to be on the field. Our D was so good back then, with many playmakers, that I would bet we led the league in 3 and outs and fewest opponents offensive plays over the course of Lynch’s carrer. It’s hard to amass great stats as a Saftey when the other team runs twice, throws incomplete and punts. The D Line and linebackers are involved in every play. I’d bet there were a majority of games when his opportunities were limited due out D getting off the field so fast. It’s just something I’ve thought about but haven’t seen argued before. It’s like the dream team. A lot of players who average 20+ points per game on their own teams, but on the same team they just don’t have enough opportunities to put up stats. I think Lynch’s stats are a byproduct of this.
February 5th, 2017 at 2:10 pm
My Top-5 Hall of Fame Snubs. 1. Terrell Owens (2nd leading WR of All-Time). 2. Marty Schottenheimer (6th in All Time Wins) 3. Ken Riley ( Tied for 5th in All Time Interceptions). 4. Edgerrin James ( 12th All Time in Rushing ) Also 433 Receptions. 5. Roger Craig (Over 14,500 Yards, rushing and receiving) Played in 3 Super Bowls, won all 3. Played in playoffs, all 11 seasons of his NFL Career.( With 3 different teams). Had 1,000 yards rushing and 1,000 yards receiving.
February 5th, 2017 at 2:17 pm
LakeLandBuc
How can you leave Tom Flores off that list. 2 superbowls, insane playoff winning percentage and the first minority to win a Superbowl. Shottenheimer certainly can not be ahead of Jimmy Johnson either.
February 5th, 2017 at 2:22 pm
Looking at the list of some of the snubs or not in yet makes it even more a miraculous what SNOW job or Sales Job the committee pulled to get a mediocre dungy in the hall of fame.
There is NO justification or Sales Job that can out weight the fact Dungy has a CAREER LOSING record in the playoffs. Hall is for the best of the best not mediocre popular tv hypocrites.
I realize Journalism is extinct in america but these media has beens that never were posing has hall voters are just a bunch of attention seeking fools that have rendered the hall of fame a joke and nothing more than a popularity contest with a politically correct agenda. It’s sad and pathetic actually.
February 5th, 2017 at 2:32 pm
tmaxcon. If Tom Flores didn’t take the Seattle Seahawks HC position. He would be in the Hall of Fame. He was 14-34 as the Seahawks HC, but he should be in the Hall of Fame. He has 4 Super Bowls wins, 2 as a player and 2 as a HC. Also he was the 1st Minority to win a Super Bowl as a HC ( Not Tony Dungy).
February 5th, 2017 at 3:19 pm
Tmax, I agree. It’s popularity contest. Taylor ahead of Rice? Are you kidding me? Was he dominate on the biggest stage? Oh yeah, he never got there. And Ken Riley and Roger Craig? Wow, ….it’s a sham, like the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame
February 5th, 2017 at 3:22 pm
Tom Flores should have been in, and Don Coryell. He was ahead o head of the game, an innovator. Running 3,4 wides before it was a thing.
February 5th, 2017 at 6:02 pm
There are 3 members of the 85 bears d in the hof and 1 from the 2000 ravens both more loved by the media than the Bucs d. I doubt Lynch gets in mainly cus the d only has 1 title
February 5th, 2017 at 7:15 pm
St.PeteBucsFan, you said it best Im afraid.
But if were going to devalue Safeties, then Morten Anderson? Really? A RB who played for 6 years? Im supposed to tell someone one day what was a great NFL running back like, and Im going to say Terrell Davis?
The NFL had better wake up if it wants to maintain its dominance over the American sport world for the next 50 years. Some young folks right now may laugh at that statement, but I promise you in 1955 if I told someone that In ten years Baseball would start to decline and football would be no.1, the laughs would have been heard around the world. Nothing lasts forever,
The NFL is a league who is changing too fast for its core fan base, not giving enough time to catch up. This is why the Ratings are down for NFL Tv.
Theyve Over Saturated the TV market with THursday, Sunday Night games, changed the game to where B rated Quarterbacks are breaking records of the most celebrated of NFL Heros.
This is a league whos most famous play, the TOUCHDOWN PASS…is not even a play that it knows when it exists. You can watch a game, and Refs do not know from one city to the next when a catch is a Catch. Thats first and foremost on the NFL’s need to do list.
Its a travesty John Lynch didnt get in, Safety or not.
February 6th, 2017 at 7:23 am
It’s obvious that the hall of fame voters are a bunch of self righteous morons.
February 6th, 2017 at 1:04 pm
You think safety is bad?
Ask why fullback Moose Johnston never made it into the Hall… blocking fullbacks get less respect than kickers these days.
February 6th, 2017 at 3:07 pm
I wonder if Jeff Garcia writes a letter to the HOF committee every year telling them why TO was such a piece of garbage?
Warner did not deserve it, the guy had 3 seasons of being a 4000 yard plus passer on teams that were all pass first. Think of that. Winston is one 4000 yard season away from tying Warner, and Winston is still the youngest starting QB in football. Warner only made his first SB after a BS call from the refs and the “greatest show on turf” puts up 11 points versus the Bucs… wait, let me take that back, they put up 9 points and a safety. The guy then later loses a Super Bowl to the Steelers. Big deal any jabroni QB can lose a Super Bowl, just look at Matt Ryan.