Tankjob May Have Begun Sooner
January 26th, 2017
The resurrection of the nightmare of not re-signing defensive end Michael Bennett got Joe thinking.
That was after Joe cleaned up the mess from Frisbee’ing a bowl of corn flakes across the kitchen and punching the refrigerator.
The idiotic failure with Bennett unearthed all the personnel gaffes the Bucs made before AC/DC-loving general manager Jason Licht began throwing his muscle around One Buc Palace and wrested control of football transactions from lazy Lovie Smith.
We all remember what some (rightly) considered a tankjob against the Saints to end the 2014 season, thus claiming victory in the Chase for Jameis. It was a move Joe applauded then along with right-thinking Bucs fans.
In retrospect, the tankjob began sooner, thanks to Lovie.
Think about it: If you woke up a drunk passed out on the sidewalks of Ybor City, not even in his foggy inebriation would he be intoxicated enough to run off a Hall of Fame cornerback in his prime, Darrelle Revis, plus a durable and future anchor of one of the NFL’s top offensive lines in Oakland, left tackle Donald Penn, trade a young, solid starting center who could also play guard, 2017 Pro Bowler Jeremy Zuttah, and sign a journeyman stiff of a quarterback in Stewart McClown.
It is almost beyond Joe’s compression someone could make so many harebrained mistakes in a handful of months, let alone someone getting paid some $4 million a year.
(If the guy paid $4 million a year actually thought all of the aforementioned transactions were good moves, it is the NFL version of the Lufthansa Heist. A football rip-off of the highest order.)
The more Joe thinks about it, the tankjob didn’t begin during the season-ending Saints loss in 2014, the tankjob to win the Chase for Jameis began in the winter 2014.
January 26th, 2017 at 1:04 pm
Hmmm maybe it’s what 87 said way back when…
McCown was the tank.
I need my own podcast.
January 26th, 2017 at 1:10 pm
Im not much of a conspiracy theorist, but this does make some sort of sense….
January 26th, 2017 at 1:11 pm
@Buc1987
some say that the “tank job” started back in 2009!!!!!!!!!!!!
January 26th, 2017 at 1:16 pm
Eh. I personally never believe there ever was a tankjob, but maybe I’m just naive. I felt even in the Saints game they were trying to win. Never underestimate how incompetent a person can be. I see it around me all the time in places I’ve worked. I’m a big fan of the quote, “Look around and see how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of the people out there are more stupid than they are.”
January 26th, 2017 at 1:21 pm
The Tank job started in 1976 with a few winning seasons in between the years.
January 26th, 2017 at 1:28 pm
I see how the argument can be made, but based on 2 wins and 6 wins in two seasons with the Bucs and 3 wins with the Fighting Illini I’m more inclined to believe it was merely very bad coaching vs. deliberate tanking (save perhaps that last Saints game in 2014).
January 26th, 2017 at 1:30 pm
Tampa Bay Tankers est.1976
January 26th, 2017 at 1:40 pm
“some say that the “tank job” started back in 2009!!!!!!!!!!!!”
lmao.
Lovie sure as hell didn’t preach a rebuild in any of his pressers. Dude was basically talking sh1t about the 4 win team he inherited and how the fans shouldn’t have to wait for a team to be competitive.
lol.
January 26th, 2017 at 1:40 pm
Thanks Lovie. Without him we could have missed out on Jameis and Mariota.
January 26th, 2017 at 1:40 pm
I’m a huge conspiracy theorist. And I feel our run game was tanking last season. Reason why to be seen later in the year.
January 26th, 2017 at 1:49 pm
lol NOS how fitting.
lol Realist.
Buc1987 Says:
December 11th, 2015 at 3:03 pm
“Then of course there’s us fans out there that think the tanking might, just might have started earlier than that Saints game.
Everything Jameis has done so far tells me it would have been worth it to throw in the towel early last season.
Anyways….McCown WAS the tank!
That’s my story and I’m sticking to it.”
Go Bucs!
Buc1987 Says:
December 11th, 2015 at 3:10 pm
“Oh and for Couch Fan. No he wasn’t tanking from the very beginning and yes he did believe in McCown when he signed him. Just so no one jumps all over me for my conspiracy theory.
McCown WAS the TANK.
Had they put Glennon ( a kid with something to prove) in over McCown mid-season, then he might pull off a win or two. They couldn’t have that. That would ruin their chance for Jameis.
Again. Pay attention everyone. I’m not a conspiracy nutjob. Nutjob yes, but not a conspiracy one.
One more time. McCown was the tank.
Repeat after me…”
January 26th, 2017 at 1:50 pm
Conspiracies I tell ya.
January 26th, 2017 at 1:53 pm
<>>
NAH DOOOOOOOIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!
The moment McClown was signed as the starter and didn’t need to compete for the spot we knew what was up. I’m no MGM’er but clearly we would have won more than 2 games with Glennon at QB.
McCown is the reason there was a MGM in the first place.
January 26th, 2017 at 2:06 pm
This is dumb… Lovie wasn’t trying to make buffonish errors. He was just a buffoon and couldn’t help himself.
January 26th, 2017 at 2:16 pm
So if I understand you correctly Joe, the cost of my 2014 season tickets was nothing more than a gift to the Glazers. Paid for 10 games and didn’t have a prayer of winning any of them apparently. If true (and it IS just speculation on your part), then everyone in the Bucs hierarchy must’ve been in on the fix.
Sorry, but I really don’t want to buy into that conspiracy theory. Deflate-Gate was ludicrous enough (and it was minor), but throwing a whole season from Game One? How could any fan be expected to root for a team with that little integrity? Even bigger question is how could any player play for such a team?
January 26th, 2017 at 2:17 pm
Doug Williams get you to the playoffs in 3 of 4 seasons after his injury during his rookie year. Then they refuse to resign Doug, instead they trade their 1984 1st round pick ( which turned out to be the top overall pick) for a backup QB ( Jack Thompson) who was already considered a bust with the Bengals. They got a whole 19 games out of Jack Thompson, before he retired as one of the biggest busts ever in the NFL. It’s either Stupidity or Tanking.
January 26th, 2017 at 2:41 pm
“compression”??? You might try comprehension.
I would offer to be a proofreader, but I don’t think you could afford me.
tickrdr
January 26th, 2017 at 2:49 pm
From what I recall, there were high hopes that Lovie Smith would win right away. In fact, Jason Licht declared the Bucs were ready to compete now and the Joes were right there with him.
https://www.joebucsfan.com/2014/07/compete-now/
January 26th, 2017 at 3:10 pm
Nice quote America’s Commenter lol – and I agree with all that.
The message preached to the fans was “we’re going to compete now”. If they wanted to truly tank that whole year then that was the dumbest PR campaign I’ve ever seen to prepare the fans. If they wanted to tank they could have been pushing messages like “we know it’s hard to be patient but this team needs to be built the right way” or some BS like that
I also agree with 87; in that they may have said F*ck the season a little earlier than the final week by not starting Glennon at all despite McCown sucking and being older.
I’m sure as hell glad it all worked out the way it did regardless
January 26th, 2017 at 3:14 pm
Schiano is the reason that Bennett wasn’t resigned, he’s the one who traded Talib and Blount to Bill for a bag of magic beans – then sent a 1st and 3rd rounder to the Jets for an injured Revis. Also Schiano was such a piece of Jersey trash he drove Josh Freeman to a live of drugs, *allegedly.
When Lovie got here I don’t think there was any doubt he was told to tank for Winston – all the moves that were done, from cutting Revis to not bothering to hire an OC once the old one couldn’t show-up for work – 2014 was meant to be a miserable year. The Lovie haters are just obsessed with this idea that a highly successful coach just suddenly forgot how to win because they didn’t like the fact he didn’t yell and scream. I Joe had been around during the Dungy era I really wonder if we’d have constantly heard the same thing.
Lovie in 2015, with a rookie QB and a secondary so bad it wouldn’t start for 50% of the high schools in this area, managed to squeak out a 10th ranked defense. Give Lovie Ayers, Spence, VH3 and Grimes – and guess what, that defense is much much better – meanwhile the Bucs offense is much much better as Dirk is working one on one with Winston and still up in the booth concentrating on what he should be doing all along, which is running the offense. Had Lovie stuck around and Dirk doesn’t get a HC gig and is still the OC I don’t see a situation where the team does worse with the same players. Even if you think suddenly Lovie forgot how defense works in the NFL and only again had a top 10 defense, but lets say it stayed at 10 – the offense returning to its 2015 form would have more than made up for that.
Just come on Joe, whats with these non-stop “I hate Lovie” stories, why do they still exist and are still constantly being written? What exactly did Lovie do to you guys, did he take away your field passes or something?
Let it go… Because Lovie didn’t yell and scream constantly didn’t mean he didn’t care if he won or lost. If you want to write non-stop stories about a true piece of garbage dirt bag then write about that Jersey Trash(tm) Schiano and mock him for the long list of idiotic moves he made – and they were his moves alone, he ran the place and told Dom what to do.
January 26th, 2017 at 3:17 pm
@LakeLandBuc … “It’s either Stupidity or Tanking.” Great observation. We need a JBF poll on that one. I vote for Stupidity.
January 26th, 2017 at 3:33 pm
You forgot that Lovie currently has one of the worst defenses in college football at Illinois so……
January 26th, 2017 at 3:46 pm
The_Buc_Realist Says:
July 23rd, 2014 at 7:19 am
I, Just like Lovie, are more intrigued in seeing that there is 3 new starters on the line from this time last year. Only McCoy will retain his position from last year.
I am excited about the bucs, not about their chances in the nfc south, just excited they hit the reset button this off-season.
January 26th, 2017 at 4:19 pm
I don’t think it was a purposeful tank job, I just think it was the doing of a guy that should never have been given the keys to a NFL franchise. Lovie is completely outmatched in the B1G Ten, let alone the NFL.
January 26th, 2017 at 4:23 pm
@rod… the reason Bennett wasn’t resigned is bc Dom drafted Bowers and Dom wanted to play him. Jason and Lovie thought Mclown could play so they passed on Derrek Carr. Lovie thought anyone could play corner in his great D and got rid of Revis. Dumb, Dumb , Dumb.
January 26th, 2017 at 4:26 pm
Gift to Lovie.
January 26th, 2017 at 4:30 pm
6-22 That’s what Lovie did. And a total of four home wins in two years.
Ran off Revis.
Ran off Penn.
Didn’t want Zuttah.
Benched Mike Glennon (twice) and started a never-been who he cut in Chicago for Jason Campbell (!).
Wouldn’t hire an offensive coordinator when Jeff Tedford got sick.
Ran an eyerake of a defense.
Need Joe continue?
No! Never will.
January 26th, 2017 at 4:50 pm
Oh Rod Rod Rod.
There’s was 3 times as much Schiano bashing than Lovie.
Lovie was just bad enough to make us forget Schiano though.
January 26th, 2017 at 5:11 pm
“Lovie in 2015, with a rookie QB and a secondary so bad it wouldn’t start for 50% of the high schools in this area, managed to squeak out a 10th ranked defense.”
lol wtf. We were bottom 7 in the NFL in PPG we gave up in his 2nd year and regressing. Worst in the league in completion % given up
Bottom 1/4 defense in the league. That’s what we were before we hired Lovie to improve the team. He had 2 full off seasons with full personnel control to do it. I only wanted an average scoring defense – top 16 in the league by his 2nd year as a goal; and we weren’t even close.
That was going against some of the worst QBs in the league too..
This year we looked just as bad early on but somehow became one of the best defenses in the league the final 8 weeks. How can you explain that in any other way beyond coaching? Same players different results = coaching
January 26th, 2017 at 5:12 pm
“You forgot that Lovie currently has one of the worst defenses in college football at Illinois so……”
Yeah seriously – how can Lovie lovers ignore that?
Dude is rich as hell and was a horrible coach when here… There is no reason to feel sorry for him or defend him lol he doesn’t give a sh1t that he did a terrible job
January 26th, 2017 at 5:12 pm
Lakeland, The “Throwin’ Somoan” a bust? I guess there has been faaaaar too much stupidity, over the years, for fans to forget;(
I fault Stupidity! They began the tank job later in the season, when they realized what McClown was; a McClown! Lovie tried to sell him to us; he truly believed. That was about the same time they released the 3 linemen (don’t forget D. Joseph who had a couple of years left), before ever meeting them, let alone seeing them work in camp.
Sorry Joe, Revis was a complete mistake and not in his prime but, in his recovery; his 1 mil-per-game recovery. We lost a 1sr & a 3rd, that was to become a 2nd had they kept him. That decision had to be made. Lovie got us Jameis and that is the positive. The Lovemeister was awful!!!
Sure miss Bennet. That was a (non) move worthy of a rockstar!
January 26th, 2017 at 5:22 pm
lord
I honestly am close to preferring schiano over lovie and I never imagined myself saying that. At least schiano’s defense was solid. smh
January 26th, 2017 at 5:23 pm
@ Rod Munch
He may have ranked top 10 in one defensive category or another, but he certainly didn’t not have a top 10 overall defense.
January 26th, 2017 at 5:35 pm
J 2.0 says:
“clearly we would have won more than 2 games with Glennon at QB.”
Probably – maybe an extra game or 2 – but MG was 1-5 as a starter in 2014 I believe soooooo.
After the season was over and they got Jameis – In thinking back to what occurred, it became pretty clear to me that the tanking began well before the Saints game. I’d say somewhere abouts 2-9 was when the goal of not winning another game became the priority.
And I agree with ’87 that McCown was the tank in that I believe 1 player and 1 player only knew that tanking the end of the season became the objective. And that 1 player was Josh McCown.
Think about it – the QB touches the ball on every play – and on damn near every game I went back and watched after the end of the 2014 season with that theory in mind, I saw McCown do just enough throughout each game to ensure that the Bucs would not win. A fumble here, an interception there. It doesn’t take much – maybe just a couple intentional “bad plays” per game to ensure defeat.
January 26th, 2017 at 5:41 pm
Total Bull, Sorry J0E.
Jason Licht was in charge of the roster and cap…as he always says of that time, yet no one acknowledges. He even said it last week…and it was quoted here I believe!
He said that his first year as a GM he wanted to make a splash, and so he spent a lot of money, even though he was always taught NOT to do that.
I don’t know how many times he has to confess before everyone gets it!
January 26th, 2017 at 5:43 pm
“And I agree with ’87 that McCown was the tank in that I believe 1 player and 1 player only knew that tanking the end of the season became the objective. And that 1 player was Josh McCown.”
Yeah I can run with that too if you like. I’ve contemplated whether he himself knew or not. So I have no problem agreeing with that premise.
Look it made NO sense to NOT put Glennon in. None. Even the dumbest, stubborn coach on planet earth would have put Glennon in.
McCown was the tank and I’m sorry for all you fans that bought season tickets that season, but I’d have pissed away a couple thousand on tickets just to get Jameis. I would forget and forgive real quick.
McCown was the tank.
January 26th, 2017 at 5:44 pm
And I’m not sticking up for Lovie. I’m sticking up for established facts. Lovie still did a bad job at the things he was actually responsible for. But the oline? Revis? Signings? All Licht (except McCown, who Lovie wanted and Licht decided to get him for him).
January 26th, 2017 at 5:47 pm
Hey tickrdr, I’m 6’4 220 my Bp is 114/78 79hbpm I will be 51 in a few months. Is my bp high or low to you.
January 26th, 2017 at 5:48 pm
Buc1987 Says
“McCown was the tank.”
Only in the last third of the season. Licht spent a lot of money with the intent of winning. Why else spend the money?
It wasn’t until they knew McCown sucked and Glennon was just good enough to win one game that they tanked, just past the halfway point.
And I can just see Licht talking with Lovie.
“We’ll get a first pick, get a QB and both of us will have security next year.”
Then:
“I’m sorry, Lovie…I tried to talk them out of it. They’re firing you and I don’t even know if they plan to fire me too.” (fingers crossed)
January 26th, 2017 at 6:15 pm
RustyRhinos Says:
January 26th, 2017 at 5:47 pm
Hey tickrdr, I’m 6’4 220 my Bp is 114/78 79hbpm I will be 51 in a few months. Is my bp high or
………………………………
I am the same age with the same BP but my Hbpm is lower 68. Doc tells me I am in Perfect shape for my age.
January 26th, 2017 at 6:16 pm
Bonzai…correct sir.
Read my above post from way back when to Couch Fan.
They signed McCown with every intention of him being good and when the season went to hell. The tank was on. Cause he was still in there.
I don’t even want to call it a conspiracy. I don’t believe in most of them. but this.
January 26th, 2017 at 6:21 pm
Total Bull, Sorry J0E.
Jason Licht was in charge of the roster and cap…as he always says of that time, yet no one acknowledges. He even said it last week…and it was quoted here I believe!
He said that his first year as a GM he wanted to make a splash, and so he spent a lot of money, even though he was always taught NOT to do that.”
He never said HE wanted to make splash that I can find. Here is the actual quote that I believe you are really misrepresenting:
“That was not the way,” Licht said in retrospect. “I was never around an organization that did it that way, but I did it and I accept responsibility for it. It just took me back to what my core values and beliefs are regarding free agency: you can’t buy a championship, you’ve got to build one.”
To me I read this as saying “I’ve never wanted to do it that way; but Lovie hired me and I did it because that’s what he wanted and I’ll take responsibility for doing it”
He’s never going to point a finger at Lovie because it is classless so I’ll never have any evidence that probably satisfies you since it’s not realistic. But there’s so many quotes and facts that point to the opposite of everything you believe:
1- Lovie had total personnel power – the GM was never going to sign anyone that Lovie didn’t want. That is different than the Koetter/Light dynamic
2- It was Lovie that talked sh1t about the O-line of 2013. I don’t recall Light making that a big deal as much as Lovie
3- The entire narrative written by every Buc person at the time was that Lovie didn’t need Revis for his scheme – and that he’d get more effective performances by signing a DE/CB/DT with that contract money
It’s just weird that you don’t think Lovie was the driver of so many of those moves; when the facts seem pretty obvious
January 26th, 2017 at 6:33 pm
To me I read this as saying “I’ve never wanted to do it that way; but Lovie hired me and I did it because that’s what he wanted and I’ll take responsibility for doing it”
……………
This is the same way I interpreted it Lord C
January 26th, 2017 at 6:54 pm
It was also Lovie saying teams should use all their available resources to make the team better – I.e spend all available money / I.e big splash in 2014 after being hired
January 26th, 2017 at 7:00 pm
@SB and Lord
Go watch the end of season 2014 press conference of NFL GM Licht!!! He specifically says that anthony collins is on him!!! But did not say a peep about all the rest of the hand picked free agents of lovie!!!!!
To me this is why buc bonzai is bananas so interesting!!! No matter how wrong and no matter how many facts come out later, he will never look back and admit he is wrong!!! and he has been ridiculously wrong on many things!!!!! He even hates me because he thinks that I was someone who picked on him or fought with on some web forum over 10 years ago!!!! Which by the way as most times, I have no idea what he is talking about!!!!!
GO Bucs!!!!!!!!!!!
January 26th, 2017 at 7:48 pm
Wow, just wow.
You mention one quote, when there are plenty of others. Put them together and you’ll get the true story.
But you’re going to believe what you want to believe. Meanwhile, Licht just keeps on signing injury prone players.
January 26th, 2017 at 7:54 pm
The Buc Realist Says:
“and he has been ridiculously wrong on many things!!!!! He even hates me because he thinks that I was someone who picked on him or fought with on some web forum over 10 years ago!”
Again…wow.
You really do not have an honest bone in your body, do you? I never once made such an accusation. The fact that you even know about it when I have NEVER brought anything like that up says a lot.
And me wrong on many things? Yep. It happens. Not nearly as much as you, but it happens. Happens to everyone.
But on this, I am NOT wrong. Licht has made those statements during interviews, radio shows and press conferences. Just admit it…you want to keep blaming Lovie, who certainly made his share of mistakes, but you do NOT want Licht to be blamed for ANYTHING.
Licht is blameless?
How UNRealistic is that???
Poser, lol.
January 26th, 2017 at 7:56 pm
Oh, and I want to call your bluff. Please, IF you claim I made such accusations, provide the links to them. According to you, I said these things, so where is your proof?
I won’t hold my breath because you cannot produce what does not exist.
January 26th, 2017 at 7:57 pm
@Lord
He said that before the Glazers hired a GM.
January 26th, 2017 at 8:26 pm
@Buccaneer Bonzai
You don’t think I keep score around here!!!!!! If I was not “The Buc Realist” then I would have been ” The Buc Historian”!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You brought it up a couple of times, And I am embarrassed that I even spent time looking for one of the instances!!!!!!
Buccaneer Bonzai Says:
August 8th, 2016 at 7:34 am
@Realist
Oh, btw…I’m talking about those of us who knew you before JBF 😉
Buccaneer Bonzai Says:
August 8th, 2016 at 9:14 am
You seem to have missed the part where I mentioned “before” JBF. You were on the Buccaneers forum, were you not?
January 26th, 2017 at 9:05 pm
Bonzai…this is fun. Where’s your retort?
Realist…hmmm that’s my game. You should’ve asked me to find it for you!!! lol
January 26th, 2017 at 9:18 pm
Oh well. Good night old man. Must be past your bedtime.
January 26th, 2017 at 10:04 pm
I do not think Lovie tanked on purpose. That is a terrible accusarion to throw around. Love him or hate him, there is no need to disrespect him like that.
Peraonally i think Lovie was just a terrible personel guy. He had all the power for the first time in his career and he didnt have a clue what he was doing. He made rookie mistakes and overestimated his coaching ability. He thought young guys, and guys he previously coached were the way to go. But it back fired on him. he ended up releasing some of our best players and replaced them with considerably worse ones. Jennings over revis? Collins over Penn? We had a ton of cap space and didnt need to cut salaries, he did it because he is clueless how to run a roster. Lovie didnt tank, he was just so bad that it looked he did.
January 26th, 2017 at 11:05 pm
@defense rules
you are so correct in your post on this thread. Those of us that are season tix holders totally gave our money to the Glazers during that crap! Personally I discontinued my tix when this was apparent. I signed on again this past season when i felt things were changing. We will see as we go forward.
January 26th, 2017 at 11:47 pm
@Rusty Rhinos and @SB:
Both of those BP readings are excellent and quite normal. The range of ideal normal BP ranges from ~ 100 – 120 mmHG for a systolic reading ( the upper number), and ideally the diastolic reading should be < 80 mmHg ( the lower number), but even the 120-140 systolic and 80-90 mmHg ranges are considered essentially normal by me, but now being considered "pre-hypertension" by some docs. Normal resting heart rate ranges from ~ 50 to 100 beats per minute.
I often take prophylactic beta-blockers to control my HR and BP, when I read some of the posts on JBF. LOL.
tickrdr
January 27th, 2017 at 12:14 am
Thank you tickrdr. I owe a good deal of my Health to genetics and the rest to hard work. I ate horribly, smoked, drank, did other unspeakables as well. However I always valued Core strength when I worked out more than anything else. Now all my friends who were so concerned with their pecs and biceps have weak legs and bad backs. Geez so many parallels to take away from this.
January 27th, 2017 at 4:54 am
for the above reasons, this is why it will take at least 2 drafts and FA for the Bucs to be highly competitive. It’s a shame what Lovie was allowed to do. He could have been stopped by the owners but they turned a blind eye to his cut and slash of what turned out to be Pro Bowl caliber players. I think there will still be some frustration as the current regime attempts to rebuild and retool the Bucs. I am hopeful for a big turn around in the coming years.
January 27th, 2017 at 2:22 pm
@The Buc Realist
All you’ve done is prove that I thought you were on the forum. I did not make an accusation, chump.
January 27th, 2017 at 2:29 pm
giving lovie way too much credit. he thought he had spotted some free agent gems from his couch and couldn’t wait to show the world. if he did start gutting the team before the season began to ensure a high draft pick it was incredibly irresponsible and it only would’ve taken a couple bounces for the whole plan to blow up in the teams face
now, midseason, when it was clear to lovie that all his offseason decisions were really bad ones? i absolutely believe the tank job was on by that time. the day they put mike glennon back on the bench is the day the the goal of being a bottom 2 team (ensuring a stud QB) became official team policy
January 27th, 2017 at 3:53 pm
@Buc Bonzai
That is my whole point!!! You brought it up to me like that 2 other times, and tried to hold whatever that was against me, When I told you multiple times That was not me!!!
All you could have said was “my bad bro” and I would have dropped it and never have thought of it, and moved on like most of our arguments!!!! But you can’t say it can you??????