About Trading Doug Martin
December 28th, 2016
The question of the week fired at Joe via various channels revolves around the next steps in the Doug Martin drama.
Joe has answers.
First, the trade question is most popular, likely because it’s obvious that Dirk Koetter has lost confidence in Martin.
The situation meets the trade trifecta equation perfectly: healthy player in prime + big salary + plus thumbs-down from the head coach = trade. Simple as that.
Could the Bucs swing a pre-draft trade for Martin? Maybe. But Joe doesn’t see a team coughing up more than a fifth-round pick. And that would be the maximum.
Martin’s guaranteed salary next season kills the shot for more, plus he’d be coming off a bad, injury-shortened season. Question-mark, expensive running backs are never in high demand.
Yes, the Bucs absolutely could keep Martin for 2017. They’re already paying him. They might as well reap some benefit.
If Koetter is down on Martin’s talent and there’s really no hidden issue/attitude problem behind the scenes, then Martin could serve as one hell of a running back competing for a job next season.
It makes perfect sense. He knows the offense. He can pass block. What a luxury on the roster for a team with a ton of salary cap room. A trade could always be revisited in the summer.
Joe has observed and covered Martin for five seasons. He certainly doesn’t seem anything like the guy who’s going to become a team cancer or pout like a diva because he got demoted and must battle for a job. That doesn’t appear to be in his DNA.
Plus, Martin bought a house in Tampa and loves to talk about how he enjoys the area. He doesn’t strike Joe as a guy with one foot out of town and eager for a new team.
Perhaps the worst thing Joe could say about Martin is he was hanging out socially with Austin Seferian-Jenkins less than two weeks before ASJ was arrested and kicked off the team in September. Some might consider that an unfair shot by Joe, but Joe thinks a veteran choosing to hang out with ASJ is a red flag by association.
December 28th, 2016 at 9:41 am
Trade 10th pick or wherever they land plus Martin to move up and draft Dalvin.
Thee end.
December 28th, 2016 at 9:52 am
Why trade him now? If past is prologue, 2017 would be the year he runs 1500 yards. This is the off year. Next year is the on year. Then he will have incentive to run for a third year. That’s how it works, doesn’t it?
December 28th, 2016 at 9:52 am
Doug is one of the greatest running backs in history…every other year. Wait a year, then trade him.
December 28th, 2016 at 9:53 am
Dalvin Cook is not the answer to the Bucs problem. The Bucs need road grader type of guards and center in order for any running back to be successful. The holes just are not there and Jameis needs more time. I like our OL as human beings, but guys my size are just too small and not nasty enough to be a really good o lineman.
Belated Merry Christmas, Lee.
December 28th, 2016 at 9:57 am
I think we have enough FSU players on the team. We see how that is going. No more please.
December 28th, 2016 at 9:58 am
Scottasuarus Says
“Doug is one of the greatest running backs in history…every other year. Wait a year, then trade him.”
!!!!!! LOL !!!!!!
December 28th, 2016 at 10:01 am
I think people are overreacting i think quizz is just better at finding holes when their is nothing there while doug if given the space is more effective but right now their is no space so best chance to have a good ground game is quizz
December 28th, 2016 at 10:06 am
Do NOT trade him.
Here’s the thing…Doug Martin has his ups and downs due to injury, but he is certainly worth more than a 5th rounder, at least to the Bucs. Keep him if you cannot get a 2nd or better. Period.
Just because a player isn’t blowing the doors off that doesn’t mean he has to go. There is such a thing as depth if he doesn’t start. Tampa fans ALWAYS want starters for backups, but it doesn’t work like that.
But, aside from that…as usual…you guys are giving up on a players far too soon. I cannot count the number of times a players has turned out to be good when the team stuck with him and the fans wanted him out. Face it, people…fans know nothing. NOTHING.
Doug Martin may just have lingering effects from his injury, and Dirk doesn’t want to put that info out there. Think about it. Doug was the #2 RB in the NFL last year. That proves he can do it. He was working hard before the injury, even if teams were stacking the box against him.
After the season is over, we’ll probably learn that Martin’s injury is still giving him issues. BOOKMARK THIS
I was one of the ones who did not want to give him a contract, but he was given one and you don’t give up on him after a bad season. You give him a little time to heal up and then let him compete to start again.
December 28th, 2016 at 10:08 am
I find it ironic that people blame the OL for Winston’s woes…but not for Martins.
December 28th, 2016 at 10:10 am
Yes let Dalvin run wild for another team then…
Correct this team needs o-line. Still.
Stud WR wouldn’t hurt either though.
December 28th, 2016 at 10:17 am
Right on Bonzai!
December 28th, 2016 at 10:20 am
he’s hurt…simple as that…draft RB and bring martin to camp…depth
December 28th, 2016 at 10:21 am
Draft Position – 17 (tie). Tampa Bay Buccaneers
2016 record: 8-7 (.507)
Top needs: DL, S, WR
Analysis: Tampa Bay will need to find a high-impact player along the defensive line who can create mayhem on a regular basis. Safety is a need and could get early round consideration. While Mike Evans is a stud, Tampa Bay has to find another threat for Jameis Winston.
________________
I disagree with this, as we need OL.
December 28th, 2016 at 10:23 am
OL, WR, S, DL
December 28th, 2016 at 10:24 am
I suspect Martin is still hurting, or minimally doesn’t have the confidence in his hammy to go full-tilt.
But as far as a trade goes, can the Bucs offer to guarantee part of Martin’s salary for another team?
December 28th, 2016 at 10:27 am
Please shut up about D. Cook.
What I think Koetter might be doing right now (and what I think is a good idea) is resting Doug (coming off a hammy) for next year when we are likely gonna bring in some stronger O line.
December 28th, 2016 at 10:35 am
all this talk is ridiculous to me.
Martin is great. He was injured, then hurt, behind a line that was mediocre against the run this year. A LINE that allowed constant backfield penetration on runs.
December 28th, 2016 at 10:35 am
Get Dalvin!!! He’s by far the best RB in the draft
And @Skyline Crew. The FSU player we have is the leader of our football team and the other is coming along, Id say it’s going pretty well. Id take more please!!
December 28th, 2016 at 10:37 am
BUILD A WALL!
December 28th, 2016 at 10:38 am
@Tbbucs3 he can be a leader all he wants. McCoy is one as well, but I need players who can win and play great consistently. Not every now and then.
December 28th, 2016 at 10:44 am
Get out of here. Jamies is a great qb not to mention he’s the youngest in the NFL? What are your expectations Skyline?
Look around the league at other young qbs past and present. It’s a process. Id like to see what other qbs can do with Adam humpries and no running game.
December 28th, 2016 at 10:44 am
Build the wall up front and it will come nuff said.
December 28th, 2016 at 10:45 am
@Skyline Crew
I’m sorry, but we HAVE to go defensive line in the first round. Jason Licht went years only addressing defense through free agency. It deserves the attention now. He can address the oline in free agency or in later rounds.
Our second pick? I prefer defense still, but I could live with OL or WR.
But this draft needs to be split down the middle. We could probably skip CB for a year (though I don’t advise it), but we need DL and Safety, and maybe an OLB if we want to compete.
I DO recognize the need for OL and WR though. Maybe Licht just sucks at getting defensive players in free agency (although Ayers and Grimes have been good).
December 28th, 2016 at 10:47 am
So let me get this str8 you anti drafting Dalvin Cook people mainly feel that way because it would add yet another Nole to the roster.. That’s some idiotic ishh if I ever heard some. Imagine him going to carolina or N.O. I would literally cry. Have you ignoramus’s not noticed the impact Freeman has had on the falcons offense. Dalvin is 3x the player he is. Do yourselves a favor and purchase your cleanex now cause he is Licht’s main target.
December 28th, 2016 at 10:47 am
Gerald McCoy has missed only one game so far this year. Just an FYI.
His stats are down though. Unless he gets 1 1/5 sacks in this last game, he’s going to have his worst year since what? 2011?
December 28th, 2016 at 10:52 am
@Nole
I’m against drafting Dalvin Cook in the early rounds because we have much bigger needs than RB. DL, OL & WR to say the least.
The Broncos had the best OL in football for years, and every RB that played behind it did very well. Yet, when they left the team, the RBs did poorly. A great OL is better than a great RB any day of the week. And the Bucs seem to find decent RBs pretty easily.
I don’t really care what college he goes to. I don’t really care for college football for the most part. I’m of the belief that you take the best player available at a position of greatest need, and running back isn’t our greatest need.
December 28th, 2016 at 10:56 am
This is amusing, a lot of laughs.
December 28th, 2016 at 10:57 am
Bonzai no one was complaining about our o line last year when DM was the league second leading rusher. O line needs tweaking not overhauling.
December 28th, 2016 at 10:58 am
1st rounds are for drafting stars the following rounds are for addressing so called needs.
December 28th, 2016 at 11:05 am
Its like folks don’t realize their is a free agency period also. Bucs had a good showing this year,people are aware the young QB is for real. RT,DT,WR free agency period. Star player(Dalvin Cook) 1st round of draft.
December 28th, 2016 at 11:08 am
no to dalvin…..give martin one more year….if he begins to run wild next year, then trade him before the deadline….we need oline….one in the draft and one in FA(that isn’t hurt)….develop barber….draft dt,de and wr and get a de,dt,wr and s in FA….might as well throw te in the mix too…..damn we still have a ton of holes….GO BUCS!!!!
December 28th, 2016 at 11:18 am
Cook will be off the board when the Bucs pick NOS-BOS. Are you suggesting we should spend a 1st AND 3rd to get him????
Martin will be back. When healthy, DM is one of the better backs in the NFL.
He has not been healthy at all this year.
December 28th, 2016 at 11:22 am
And for those screaming draft Oline early – this is a terrible draft for Oline players. Only 2 or 3 are projected 1st round talents.
December 28th, 2016 at 11:22 am
It was a mistake signing him to such a big contract. Good luck trading an injury prone aging RB that is obviously only motivated by money. Now that he got paid he doesn’t care.
December 28th, 2016 at 11:23 am
Trade him!
December 28th, 2016 at 11:27 am
Focus on Oline help in FA (Leary) & drafting best player available (prefer a WR like Corey Davis or John Ross). Hope the Doug & Quizz can carry load next year, if not address RB next offseason. After that biggest need is depth because the roster has improved. Jameis will be another year better…hopefully he will be the 4th qtr QB we need next year. Patience is key!!!
December 28th, 2016 at 11:27 am
BigHogHaynes Says:
“BUILD A WALL!”
Holy crap… I concur with BigHog.
Bonzai…nope one thing at a time. The O…still needs fixing and tweaking. Until the O’s complete you don’t stop building it for your franchise QB. Whether o-line early or WR early. Keep building on the O.
One thing at a time Bonzai. I know what the D needs just like everyone else. There’s glaring needs though along the O-line and no legit #2 WR. If they spend big in FA on a WR with speed, then fine. I’ll quit barking for a WR.
Fix the O first!
December 28th, 2016 at 11:29 am
Btw, I was one of the ones that said franchise Martin…
But, what do I know?
December 28th, 2016 at 11:35 am
Nobody knows the pain these players are in. Week to week. SI followed 4 player thru the season. One guy played knowing he’d be hospitalised and put on IR the next day. It’s really an ugly situation. I remember reading about illegally undetectable pain medication. In horse racing. One such drug was a rare snail venom. That would freeze nerve endings. Rendering you to feel no pain. If drafted players were properly of there drafted teams. For there whole career. Teams would be way more cautious with their future. Instead of squeezing every thing they can out of them for the contract term. They get the day after a game off. Because most of them can’t get out of bed.
December 28th, 2016 at 11:35 am
Trade him ASAP
Martin has been chronically injured since his rookie season……
…….I think his body cannot take the brutality of the NFL game anymore.
Now, the buccaneers organization have come to this realization too.
I like douggie fresh………but he’s not effective for us anymore.
December 28th, 2016 at 11:36 am
Don’t trade Doug, just spend $ on a good O line.
Trade a few of the other running backs we have, then draft Dalvin
That would be killer. Douggie and Dalvin. Yeah buddy!!!
December 28th, 2016 at 11:36 am
@Bonzai
I agree we need DL as well, but I think we did alright last year in our Defensive draft. We have been ignoring Offense for quite a while. We have our Philip Rivers, we just need an OL to help with the protection and run game. I’m impressed with our Defense this year. If it weren’t for them, we’d have maybe 4 wins this year.
December 28th, 2016 at 11:43 am
I believe Martin should be back in 2017. Yes Martin had a tough year and battled injury as well but I can think of 1 hall of fame RB that also has had a terrible year. AP anyone?
If the Bucs cut or trade Martin that would mean they would be looking for another RB early in the draft next year when the Bucs already need to add talent elsewhere. And Rodgers ain’t the truth so lets just stop with the belief he may be the starting RB next year because it won’t happen.
Add more talent on the line and at wideout and TE. Defense could be addressed early in draft as well and lets keep Martin. 1 year ago he and Sims were considered the best 1,2 in the game. Everyone take a breath here and relax. Martin is not the first elite player or back to have a bad year.
December 28th, 2016 at 11:49 am
Martin playing with a severe injury and an oline that has atrocious run blocking yet somehow he is over the hill and sucks now? The blind spot on the oline is willful ignorance and directly correlated with the blind spot people have for ego-in-chief Licht.
December 28th, 2016 at 12:05 pm
If that what it takes Pick. Think them falcons overly concerned about what they gave up to go get Julio. H3ll no he’s a future HOFr.
December 28th, 2016 at 12:11 pm
And I agree DM is good back. My belief is Koetter envisions a better out the back field pass catcher on first downs. We all know sims is not that guy,he tips every run vetween the tackles.
December 28th, 2016 at 12:18 pm
I mean once we make the playoffs next season we’ll be drafting near the lower end of the draft anyway.
December 28th, 2016 at 12:27 pm
I’m not against drafting Cook but that’s because I don’t know anything about him BUT there is an FSU player every year that has a bunch of Buc/FSU fans all bonered up about. It’s not that I don’t think he would be any good but I do think there are a bunch of FSU homers with strong emotional ties to their players.
For example. Look how many people can’t admit Doug just plain sucks this year all because IMO of emotional reasoning.
December 28th, 2016 at 12:30 pm
I wouldn’t be opposed to seeing a scenario like this play out:
Round 1- John Ross, WR
Round 2- Justin Evans, S
Round 3- Montravius Adams, DT
Round 4- Brian Hill, RB
December 28th, 2016 at 12:32 pm
I agree wth Dave and Bonzai. The best situation going into next season is to focus on other needs and use Martin, Quizz and Sims in a RBBC. Each has their strengths.
First 3 picks need to be WR, DL, OL (in no particular order) and all three areas should also be addressed in FA as well.
You are not going to get 5th round value if you trade Martin now, its not going to happen.
December 28th, 2016 at 12:34 pm
I’m not in favor of drafting any RB in the first round. That’s not how you build a team in today’s NFL.
December 28th, 2016 at 12:43 pm
Tell that to a cowboys fan Genco.
December 28th, 2016 at 12:56 pm
The Bucs seemed to lack big play ability, don’t recall many runs over 10 yards this entire season. Very few home runs from our wide receivers as well. Dalvin Cook will be an immediate big play threat and our opponents defense will have to game plan around, will have to plan for both Evans and Cook. I certainly agree that the Oline could use some help, perhaps our GM could address both situations, Oline help and a play maker.
December 28th, 2016 at 1:12 pm
If it is the hamstring issue then there’s a reason why they didn’t just put him on IR for the rest of the year. Why take the media bashing like this if there isn’t more to the story? You don’t deactivate a player you’re paying that kind of money to if he’s a healthy scratch just because your other backs play special teams.
There’s more to this story than meets the eye, and chances are we will never know the truth. Maybe Martin is asking for a trade or release? Maybe the lack of production has just gotten to him mentally and he doesn’t feel like he can perform for the remainder of the season? Maybe he’s contemplating retiring at the end of the season? Who knows.
December 28th, 2016 at 1:12 pm
@Nole
You know damn well that the Cowboys drafted OL in the 1st round for a few years before getting a RB. They didn’t grab a RB with a crap OL. Why waste a pick?
December 28th, 2016 at 1:14 pm
Skipper they are aware of exactly what you speak but because most are lizrads they refuse to wrap they’re minds around your vision. Draft night gone tell the tale tho.
December 28th, 2016 at 1:17 pm
Sky what was the vikings overall nfl O line ranking last season??? Better yet what kind of O line did Barry Sanders run behind in comparison to Emmitt Smith??? Holla back with your retort bro.
December 28th, 2016 at 1:22 pm
Give me a RT in free agency and some explosion in the backfield no one here will be complaining about O line performance. Much like no one did in 2015 with these same cast of characters.
December 28th, 2016 at 1:22 pm
It’s amazing to me how short people’s memories are! Martin was second only to Adrian Peterson last year in rushing. Read it again and let it seep in. He did NOT forget how to run the football and he’s STILL in his prime.
Yes, I agree that Dalvin is a great RB. However, as many have noted, RB is not a high priority for 2017. Why? 1st, Martin is still under contract for now and see above (2nd in NFL!). 2nd, the Bucs have Sims and Rodgers who are capable backs in their own right. 3rd, the Bucs have the opportunity to develop a young back in Peyton Barber. Finally, every year there is no shortage of RBs available late in the draft, free agents, or undrafted free agents.
Martin is an asset to this roster in one way or another. Not recognizing that can lead to hasty ill-informed decisions like drafting kickers in the 2nd round!
December 28th, 2016 at 1:26 pm
@NOSBOS- As one of the biggest Barry Sanders fans not to be a Lions fan I wish I could’ve seen him behind that wall in Dallas. Picture that!!! I love me some #20! THAT record would NEVER be touched!
December 28th, 2016 at 1:28 pm
Fanman its less about DM not being able to run the football,he hasn’t forgotten how to do that. They spoke to Lasco according to his word multiple times last combine because of his two way ability. Koetter wants and effective runner between the tackles as well as a pass receiving threat on first and second downs.
December 28th, 2016 at 1:29 pm
Would never be touched.
December 28th, 2016 at 1:33 pm
The line needs tinkering, need a center, and a guard, LT needs the third year and with work could be what we need, it seems like Pamphile can succeed where he plays on the line, maybe RT could be his move, see what Caleb Bennenoch can do and move Marpet to center or find a good one in the draft, then plug in for depth. That gives Martin and Jameis a solid oline. Last year we saw a great combo in Chuck and Doug, throw in an outside speed weapon, where the defense is not putting 8 in the box and another year of Dirk play calling and head coach, Jameis has to earn the trust and this offense is where it was in 2015
December 28th, 2016 at 1:34 pm
Yea but he’s worked on that since his rookie year AND it’s why they drafted Sims. I get you man, I just think Cook is more of a luxury when there are other needs. What about WR? You can’t deny the need there AND you can’t have both. Maybe you can, but that’s a pipe dream.
December 28th, 2016 at 1:51 pm
You said it yourself, Joe – cheap shot. A lot of Buc players came out saying they liked ASJ as a person. What perplexes me the most is why the media hasn’t discussed one obvious scenario: Matin hurt his hamstring, then re-injured it, then came back in the midst of a playoff race most likely out of optimal shape and without his normal burst – most likely due to the injury. He was never going to get back to 100 percent this season and the Bucs had two healthier and capable backs ready to go. Martin doesn’t play special teams so it made no sense keeping him as the #3.
I do think it was a bad call from Koetter because the Bucs came out flat against the Saints – they were vibing off the whole family concept and that was sapped out when the media had some controversy to sink their blood-craving teeth into.
December 28th, 2016 at 1:52 pm
Nole on Sat – the Cowboys already had the best OL in football, they could afford to draft a RB early – it’s a luxury.
You don’t buy a lamborghini when you are still renting a cheap apartment like the Bucs do, The Cowboys on the other hand owned a big house with a great big wall around it, so they could buy one.
December 28th, 2016 at 1:54 pm
Funny, Joe never ONCE reported on Josh Freeman’s “good times” in Tampa when he was a Buc even though the entire population of South Tampa (and Boomer Esiason) knew what he was up to, yet sullies Doug Martin cuz he went out with ASJ. Unbelievable!
December 28th, 2016 at 1:56 pm
BUT…
Here is the one glaring stat that pisses me off and that no one seems to be realizing about Martin. In games that he fully played in (discounting the Arizona game where he left early) THE BUCS WERE 6-0 WITH MARTIN BEFORE THE COWBOY’S GAME.
THE BUCS WERE 6-0 WITH MARTIN (in games he fully played) BEFORE THE COWBOY’S GAME.
Should I write that again???
His return coincided with the Bears game and the Bucs immediately reeled off 5 straight wins.
The only full game he played in that the Bucs lost was the Cowboy’s game and the Bucs had multiple opportunities in the closing minutes to drive and win. You can call that coincidence – I do not. Martin is an excellent blocker and teams game-plan for him and do not do so with our other backs. He was a factor and the Bucs were winning with him – period. They bench him and they lose. Those are the stats that I loo at that are inarguable.
Sometimes chemistry is more important than YPC.
December 28th, 2016 at 1:59 pm
Bucs’ record in games Martin started and completed: 6-1
Bucs’ record in games without Martin (including game he left early injured): 2-6
Any questions?
December 28th, 2016 at 2:25 pm
Geno my point was like someone noted yesterday,all talking heads prior to the draft were saying the cowboys needed D line help many peg Bosa going there. They buck whst everyone thought they needed and went after and drafted the weapon. Bro we need some more firepower in the worse way. When DM was getting caught from behind at 5 yard line people complained. Look at our division,saints and falcons loaded with firepower. We keep messin rpund wit safeties and DT we gone stay getting our @$$ handed to us.
December 28th, 2016 at 2:29 pm
Cowboys defensive ranking is at the bottom of the league. My thinkinh is that may catch up to them come tournament time but as of now they’re record says they’re the best in the nfc why. Offensive firepower that’s why. Atlanta o line isn’t on the level of dallas nor is the saints,or the steelers or the packers. But what’s the common denominator with them all. Offensive firepower.
December 28th, 2016 at 2:33 pm
Food for thought
Dalvin Cook was a monster behind a pretty bad O line @ FSU. Dirk wants weapons and he may get what he wants
December 28th, 2016 at 2:40 pm
I am an FSU fan, but I think the value of the Texas rb deonta Forman may be the best bet. We could get him in the late 2nd or early 3rd.
December 28th, 2016 at 2:52 pm
Noel on Sat – I forgot about the Cowboys def. rankings last year. If I were them I would have drafted Bosa. It looks like right now they made the right move drafting Elliott, but I’m looking at it long term. Bosa is going to prove to have better value in the long run.
RBs, especially RBs that get 300 carries over multiple seasons, have a short shelf life. You don’t see the Patriots drafting RBs in the first round.
I have nothing against Cook. He is a helluva back. But unless you can prove to me he would hold up for many seasons like Jim Brown or Walter Payton he is not worth a first round pick, IMHO.
December 28th, 2016 at 2:58 pm
Charles Sims just put on IR…….
December 28th, 2016 at 3:18 pm
When jamies has some more weapons on offense maybe someone like corey davis, and o-line and doug can get back to form this offense will have plenty of juice. We need someone other that mike evans and with an upgraded d line and better safety play this is a real playoff team. I also think a corner to play slot will be a must. I can’t take Javien Elliott and that jude adjej guy.
GO BUCS