A Jameis Double Standard
December 21st, 2016
Remember when Mike Evans lost his cool lots of times last season and, subsequently, lost focus on the field?
Joe doesn’t recall one person or coach saying. “That’s just Mike being Mike, and that’s all good.”
Yet that’s what we hear repeatedly about America’s Quarterback, Jameis Winston.
Joe has noted that Jameis has a documented and obvious maturation issue. He loses his cool, costs his team penalty yards, and he puts his body at risk for no good reason. And one could make a case that his emotions too often affect his play negatively.
Will he really be held accountable? Joe’s not so sure.
One great beauty of Evans’ standout Pro Bowl season is that he was held extremely accountable by wide receivers coach/offensive coordinator Todd Monken. No more whining and crying to officials. No more heated confrontations with cornerbacks. No more thinking about the last drop. Only razor focus allowed.
Evans body-slammed his demons and rose to the ranks of the NFL elite. Kudos to the 23-year-0ld receiver and Monken.
Now it’s time for Jameis to make the same stride in his upcoming third season. No more blocking, head-butting, punch-throwing and referee-ass-chewing for starters.
Bark all you want about how Jameis must be allowed to express his personal fire. Yet all the folks saying that seem to be the first to jump all over Evans and others whose “fire” hurt their Bucs team in the past.
It’s a double standard Joe won’t accept. Jameis can be fiery in ways that don’t hurt the team or put himself at risk.
December 21st, 2016 at 10:49 am
That head butt penalty might have been the dumbest penalty ever. I could see if Dallas was being dirty, but they simply stuffed Martin and played through the whistle like there taught to. Not cool Winston not cool.
December 21st, 2016 at 10:52 am
I’m not sure if it’s that black and white Joe. There are considerations. I’ll be the first to say that I’d like there to be fewer penalties and I’d like him to be able to approach things from a cooler headed standpoint, but it’s not a 1:1 comparison to Evans.
For one, because Evans wasn’t a leader like Jameis is. The passion that is getting him worked up is carrying over to other parts of the team and inspiring them to bring their level up. Evans was simply focused on his own play. Jameis is blocking when he shouldn’t so a teammate can do better, he’s head butting because a teammate is getting roughed up after the whistle. Yes, it needs to be done differently, but I think that it’s the full spectrum view that makes it a different case for Winston and Evans.
December 21st, 2016 at 10:54 am
How dare you criticize the Messiah!
But you make a valid point regarding the double standards some people have.
December 21st, 2016 at 11:02 am
Great point Joe(s). The tape does not lie. I think Jameis will see what his actions cost his team during film review, and with a little more maturation time, he will clean this up just like ME13 has. Go Bucs.
December 21st, 2016 at 11:12 am
@joe…well said….couldn’t agree more….along with his deep ball accuracy, he has to work on his poise as a qb and leader of this team….GO BUCS!!!!
December 21st, 2016 at 11:13 am
Yup, I said this on Monday. I love his fire and passion but h needs to learn to use it to his advantage, and not let it over take him into doing dumb things. That so called “head butt” was one of the lamest things I’ve ever seen. If you’re gonna get a personal foul, at least hit the guy for real. That looked like a puppy flicking his head at another dog. Ridiculous.
Better yet, don’t do anything that dumb and then you score a touchdown instead of settling for a FG.
December 21st, 2016 at 11:16 am
Joe(s) are as guilty as anyone if there is a Jameis double standard
December 21st, 2016 at 11:20 am
How are you going to get mad at Jameis for doing the same kinda stuff that tom brady does?
I would post a link to the video from earlier this year of Tom Brady doing his best impression of a lead blocker.
Granted i’ve never seen Brady headbutt a linebacker to stand up for his RB, but I have seen him bust his hand open punching Gronk in the helmet after a touchdown pass because he got way to hyped up.
Why is it ok for Brady to be Psycho Tom from time to time? But not ok for Jaboo to get a little feisty.
December 21st, 2016 at 11:23 am
“Held accountable”… what do suggest that be? Benching? Fine? Nothing to see here move on….
December 21st, 2016 at 11:28 am
He’s the leader.
How he carries himself and expresses his passion is magnified because he’s the leader. He can have passion and still play smart football, which means harnessing that passion into plays, not on-the-field recriminations or penalty-drawing foolishness.
That doesn’t sound like a double standard at all. Leaders lead by example and he knows what that entails.
December 21st, 2016 at 11:30 am
I only cared about Evans getting penalties and dropping passes.
Winstons only gotten the 1 or 2 penalties I can think of – but he still needs to not do that
December 21st, 2016 at 11:32 am
Joe, I’m having a hard time understanding why you’ve gone from 0 to 100 on this topic this week? I presume because the Bucs lost and, like all of us, you REALLY wanted them to win the Dallas game. I get it, but most of the incidents you laid out in your article earlier in the week happened before the Dallas game. Why no panic article about Jameis’s behavior prior to this?
Also, from your perspective what should Coach K be doing that he isn’t doing now to course correct here? Threaten fines? Public humiliation during press conferences? Threaten benching? And if those don’t work? I’m sure Coach realizes he has to be delicate here for risk of alienating JW, and JW losing confidence in him as he may start to feel like Coach K doesn’t have his back. And at end of day Glazers will side with JW and not Coach if it comes right down to it.
I realize I’ve likely gotten ahead of myself here, but just seems to me that we should trust Coach and JW to figure this out before we panic. It was first loss in 6 games for crying out loud. Let’s not try to stir the pot with something like this just yet.
December 21st, 2016 at 11:36 am
Jameis can’t even make this year’s Pro Bowl. What a loser
December 21st, 2016 at 11:44 am
That head butt tho
December 21st, 2016 at 11:47 am
Jameis needs to find another way to prepare for games. Clearly jumping around like a idiot is not an effective technique. We have seen this over and over. The old Atlanta “Dirty Birds”, the Panthers last year. That emotional hyperventilation is just a good way to play like crap when it counts the most. Jameis will never lead us anywhere if he can’t find a more cerebral way to prepare for games.
December 21st, 2016 at 11:49 am
@lord corn…..that ridiculous….if you care about evans penalties and drop passes you should care about Winston’s misfires and penalties….
@joe wrote about this a few days ago….he started doing this dumb sh!t at the end of last but it was overshadowed by the horrible defense and the fact that we actually had found a franchise qb….he got 2 dumb penalties last year against the rams and panthers and now it has rolled over into this year beginning week2 vs arz, week7 vs san fran and now week15 vs dallas….enough is enough….
he has to realize that he cant get too high or too low with his emotions/passion….GO BUCS!!!!
December 21st, 2016 at 11:49 am
WTF are you talking about? How many personal foul penalties has Jameis had? 1 in the Dallas game? And I still believe he was bending down to get Doug up but just ran into the back of the Dallas player as he was yelling at the ref for what he thought was rough treatment to Doug.
December 21st, 2016 at 11:51 am
Joe really doesn’t seem to want passion from his players. People criticize McCoy for not having enough fire and ME and JW for having too much. One dumb penalty does not make a pattern. I am fine with some fiery guys that want to win and protect there teammates. Would you criticize Brady’s fire if you were a Patriots fan. Just relax and enjoy the ride this winner is going to take us on!
December 21st, 2016 at 11:57 am
I’m forced to agree with Joe here. Jameis had a dumb penalty like this one in the 49ers game. This cannot become a trend.
December 21st, 2016 at 11:59 am
What the heck! Nothing to see here. Silly article. Get back to me in a couple years and let me know how much of a distraction this is. Wow.
December 21st, 2016 at 12:05 pm
Patrick in VA agree entirely!
Here we go…the coaches probably are addressing it!
But you can’t have it both ways, players no REAL, he says all the time he will fight for his brothers not just words.NOT JUST WORDS, but actipn that a Seattle player committed he admires about him!
Evans fire was misdirected but Jameis’s is the fuel that has launched the Bucs cannon!
Have you ever been a part of aTEAM! If you are in the trenches you want to know your teammate will fight for you and as this attitudes spread…every game will be a battle.
ONE TEAM, ONE HEARTBEAT!
Most of the comments I’ve read from the media has been positive! They are diggin on the Bucs outside and now the inside is complaining…go figure!
December 21st, 2016 at 12:06 pm
Guess Joe is now a considered a “hater” since he criticized the Messiah
December 21st, 2016 at 12:07 pm
Action that a Seattle player commented
December 21st, 2016 at 12:10 pm
Ridiculous!! That penalty did not lose us the game. Gosder Cherilus and his bad play as well as Mike Smiths chicken “spit” defensive plan lost us the game. Clearly the whistle blew and Jameis thought the defender still threw Martin to the ground (I do not however, but I have the benefit of replay). When it first happened I jumped up too screaming at the TV for a flag. When they showed it again, I quickly sat back down. Cherilus’ play made Winston get pounded. Most QBs would hurry throws, too. Mike Smith resorted back to our cover “deuce” (cause it stinks like a good deuce) because he got caught in a blitz early in the game on a screen. He went into a shell, plain and simple. We had no pressure at all, no run blitz, nothing. He blitzed David once in the fourth I believe and he got a sack. All of this and we still had a chance to win against an 11-2 team, on the road. This is just ridiculous that people EXPECTED us to win 6 in a row.
Also, I have been reading about how Martin has “lost” it this year, BS, the offensive line has not been very good this year. When there is a crack in the line, Martin still explodes through it. There is nowhere to run. Sims is becoming the dancing queen again…because there is nowhere to run. If we don’t sort this out quickly, the Bucs will be watching the playoffs from their homes. GB probably will not lose again. Atlanta probably will not lose again. We win 2 we are in I believe. Don’t lose hope and we have to stop eating our own after one loss. We won 5 in a row, incredible, If we do that again we are in the Super Bowl, just sayin’
December 21st, 2016 at 12:11 pm
No doubt that was an intentional headbutt during an emotional moment. I can live with this. Its not an epidemic like what we were seeing with Evans.
Having Koetter “put his foot down” makes 0 sense with all apologies Joe. Today, Jameis will tell you it was a stupid, dumb thing to do and that he can’t do it. Jameis is not defending his actions or placing blame on anybody other than himself. He isn’t being selfish in the way Evans was and its not every week. I honestly would like for Evans to begin playing with a bit more emotion. His stoicism this year is contrary to his nature. Jameis has to learn to use that emotion and channel it. He’s gonna do stupid stuff it needs to be countered with greatness… which brings me to my true point.
What I am way, way, way more concerned with is the missed pass to Evans at the end of the game. Joe has written that Jameis saw the opportunity to make the play and Koetter endorsed it. So you have a QB, that saw the play, being successful in his mind, before it happened. A coach that gave the player confidence. The play unfolded as the QB saw it, then he fails to execute the pass. I’m a HUGE Jameis guy. Have been since college. But this is the play he must make. I don’t know how he doesn’t make it. This isn’t a random mistake. This was the biggest moment of his young professional career. This was the pass that put the team on the map. The pass that caused the Bucs to be in the driver seat for their playoffs. I fully expected that pass to be made. So now there was two opportunities to make the play that he was drafted for this year. To make the throw he made in the National Championship game. The play at the end of the Rams game I gave him a bit of a pass due to the helter skelter end and the failures of Koetter’s time management. But the Cowboys game was right there.
Why does this conversation belong in this thread?
Speaks to his age and his lack of mental maturity within the situation which is what led to this penalty. I still believe he will start making these throws. At FSU, he didn’t realize that he might not make the throw. Now he has had enough struggles to realize he might not. He needs to start making the throw at the end of the game. He has been making them to continue the drives. 3rd down he has been money. Now lets see what happens at the end of the next close game. Koetter could make this easier by being more aggressive in his play calls in the red zone. I feel he has been tentative the closer we get to the end zone.
December 21st, 2016 at 12:13 pm
Wow. This post really, REALLY illustrates the difference between the two Joes.
Yikes!
lol
December 21st, 2016 at 12:13 pm
Oh my GOSH thank you!!!
Usfbullygrad
December 21st, 2016 at 12:16 pm
I don’t actually mind an occasional penalty by any one player. It’s the constant repeated ones that get to me. Or the dirty ones.
A QB showing a little fire? Well, so long as it doesn’t hurt the game to badly, I have no issue at all with it.
I don’t think it’s a maturity issue at all. It’s uncontained fire.
Of course, I would prefer him NOT commit such penalties, but it’s not like he does it every game.
December 21st, 2016 at 12:18 pm
Usfbullygrad Says
“Joe, I’m having a hard time understanding why you’ve gone from 0 to 100 on this topic this week?”
I think it’s the conflicting opinions of two Joes.
December 21st, 2016 at 12:24 pm
I love Jameis but there is no excuse for the headbutt that cost the team big time. NO excuses period. I trust Jameis will learn from this but as I said, there are no excuses for that. He must be smarter.
December 21st, 2016 at 12:26 pm
The issue isn’t the fire, it’s that the fire is affecting his game negatively. He has to use it to his advantage, not let it get to a point where it affects his game negatively. Brady and rivers have similar and tributes, but they use it to their advantage. (Rivers lately not so much.)
December 21st, 2016 at 12:30 pm
I hope it is a lack of maturity… That would mean it would improve with maturation. If it is not, then I guess we will just have missed throws at the end of games.
I don’t mind him being competitive and learning to channel his fire into his competitiveness. Trying to stick a throw that he will complete 10% of the time which gets intercepted 30% of the time is fine. Headbutting an opponent, on second down, during the 4th quarter, in a close game, while your kicker is struggling and your team just experienced a loss of yards on the play is not acceptable and is an immature action stemming from frustration. This is not a pattern of behavior.
I fully expect his ability to control his emotions will improve with maturity. With this will be less stupid penalties at the end of big games and more big throws.
If this is “uncontrollable”, we might as well start looking for our next QB.
December 21st, 2016 at 12:30 pm
I’m not sure that everyone has a very good grasp on just what Jameis on field personality is. It’s not really like this penalty was an isolated incident that can be easily cleaned up. This is who this guy is. There are a lot of smiles and nice words when he’s at a podium, but this dude is a fighter. He’s thrown punches, he’s quick to get in defenders faces, he’s a guy that is going to be in the middle of scuffles. He’s Hawley, but he’s not in the middle of the fight every play so he’s not going to stick out as often as someone that is sticking that extra hit.
I think that once we’ve all accepted that that’s who we have as our QB, the easier it’ll be for everyone to look past those sorts of things. It’s a package deal with that guy.
December 21st, 2016 at 12:32 pm
Its always the second punch that gets caught and penalized.
December 21st, 2016 at 12:34 pm
Once again, I also fully believe a more aggressive game plan in the red zone from Koetter would benefit Jameis Give him an opportunity to transmit his aggression into the play.
December 21st, 2016 at 12:36 pm
What is this now, good cop bad cop?
While this fake controversy is being made up, Jameis is building a team!
The best way HE KNOWS how to do it , in the trenches!
These are men not robots, yes they have emotions. You can’t just program them to change and be to every fan what the fan want them to be.
It is said that GMC doesn’t HAVE IT and JW DOES, so which way do you want it? What image are you trying to make JW.
I hope he go somewhere else before he becomes a shadow of the old BUC team!
Jameis is younger than Prescott and Mariota and played less time in college…so get a grip…
December 21st, 2016 at 12:38 pm
Did we need multiple articles about this? Some fresh content would be nice. .
December 21st, 2016 at 12:38 pm
Patrick… I believe we are on the same page. Jameis will never be an “ice” QB. He will always be fire. Many HOF QB’s are, probably more are. But as they mature, they learn to channel that aggression. Coaches learn to use it rather than harness it. We as fans need to realize, Jameis will make us slap our foreheads in bewilderment but he should make us clap our hands with elation much more.
December 21st, 2016 at 12:41 pm
There is no excuse for the head butt…..but he butted the wrong person…..Jameis should have head butted Koetter for calling the predictable running play in the red zone on 1st down.
Joe, if you can, please check this stat…..red zone 1st down running plays…..percentage of plays and average yardage…..I think all of us and especially Koetter should know….because obviously he doesn’t.
A play action or play action bootleg would have faked them out of their jocks.
December 21st, 2016 at 12:43 pm
Maturing is not being lifeless. Like I said, I fully believe as good as Evans is, I think he is being too stoic. Maturing is learning to channel the aggression, use that aggression. Jameis will mature, we all do.
December 21st, 2016 at 12:48 pm
Tampabaybucfan Says
“A play action or play action bootleg would have faked them out of their jocks.”
It’s easy to say that in hindsight, but what if he had done that and it did not work? I suspect he would still be called a bad play caller.
It’s not the playcall, it was the execution and the coverage. Even a predictable offense can be successful if they execute properly…which they did not.
December 21st, 2016 at 12:53 pm
Agree with everything Patrick said! No more needs to be said!
December 21st, 2016 at 12:58 pm
BB, wrong this time. This is a pattern that Koetter has created. It is not in hindsight, we have been saying it all year, to be honest, last year too but JW was a rookie so I can understand more. It is okay to pass to set up the run, just like it is okay to run to set up the pass. In the red zone he becomes way too conservative and that is consistent, so we don’t need hindsight. The head butt was stupid but didn’t cost us the game. Koetter keeps saying in his press conferences we left too many points out there in the red zone, well get more aggressive. I believe we will succeed more than fail if he does that. Koetter has to improve his play calling and he will. We will be just fine in the coming years, we Buc fans NEED the playoffs and we hope it happens this year. After a 5 game winning streak and then a loss to an 11-2 team on the road, we are all getting crazy. We have seen vast improvements this year and hopefully can do the unthinkable and win the next 2 games.
December 21st, 2016 at 1:02 pm
Ummm, yeah this article is BS. And seeing since this is like the 3rd article about this since the cowboys game it appears a bee has gotten in one of the Joes’ bonnets.
The head butt is inexcusable. The rest is a part of his leadership style. Commentators and writers say they love a QB who sacrifices himself for his teammates…how many times have we heard “look at Jameis block in this play. That’s how you earn the respect of your teammates.” Then they turn around in articles like this and say it’s stupid. I’ll take Jameis playing full on than Scam Newton backing away from a fumble because he’s afraid of a hit. Apparently this Joe doesn’t agree.
December 21st, 2016 at 1:08 pm
@ bucbonzai,
I do not think koetter would have been criticized if he called a boot leg etc. We as fans would have applauded it. As many posters have pointed out in recent weeks is we run on every 1st down in the red zone. If we can see it, then surely a smart dc like Marinelli can see it. No, we would have applauded a pass play regardless of the outcome.
December 21st, 2016 at 1:28 pm
Im sure thw folks at one buc won’t just sweep that incident under the rug. I gotta inagine that Bajakian will go over that with Jameis. Whether it sticks is a different discussion. I just hope that Jameis lerns from his mistakes. And im sure he will sooner or later.
It is reported that he is always trying to find ways to be a better leader. Someone should tell him that great leaders don’t need to yell at refs and act like a clown when he doesnt get a call his way. He needs to be more respectful to the officials, even in the heat of battle.
December 21st, 2016 at 1:45 pm
I read some comments here and they all seem to assume all is dandy with the players when it comes to Jameis having his tantrums in the field. If he pulls more tantrums and it costs us a win or the playoffs then the “family culture” will start to stink at one bucs place.
He is not in high school or college anymore. This is call adulthood and you are getting paid to play the game. Actually they should not approach it as a game but rather their jobs.
Evans shifted at 23. Maybe all Jameis needs is another year and to get married.
Welcome to adulthood.
December 21st, 2016 at 2:02 pm
Tom Brady fiery.
December 21st, 2016 at 2:14 pm
Finally. Thank you Joes. He has to stay cool. You don’t see the great QB’s acting like JW.
December 21st, 2016 at 3:40 pm
Simmer down Joe. Try to calm your passion for BS articles.
December 21st, 2016 at 3:56 pm
Gosh, this board is really starting to piss me off! Trying to exploit and make it appear that Jameis acts out all the time.
Jameis acts out NO MORE than any other so called franchise QB!
I like what an earlier poster wrote …one loss and these fair weathered, weak, BUC FANS will EAT their YOUNG!
He is a passionate young player
who is trying to camouflage an ANEMIC offense!
You complain GMC doesn’t have it and now you are trying to suck it out of JW!
You better dance with the one who brung ya!
December 21st, 2016 at 4:03 pm
I am not concern about Jameis, he wants to be great and will work on the off season to make more improvements…however it takes more than him.
This team is already benefitting from the after practice time he gives the other receivers includind ME, CB, AH…
December 21st, 2016 at 4:07 pm
Dirk called Winston out for that penalty at half time before the game started.
Dirk said it was stupid. I do not think Winston is getting away with anything. I do believe though that Winston reaction was projected on to the defense. I believe that Winston was upset with the loss of yardage and the play calling. He just took it out on the defensive guy. Winston is under a lot of pressure. The team is not very good. Look at how much time Dak had in the pocket. Dak has a better running back, he has better receivers. Dirk needs to get better as well.
December 21st, 2016 at 4:24 pm
The ‘double standard’ depends on what lens you are viewing from!
Jameis VS any other QB and the team they acquired!
Jameis prints are all over this Bucs IMPROVEMENT. As Jameis goes the BUCS goes.
So be careful how you try to tarnish and reflect your impressions and will on him!
Further more anyone WHO KNOWS JAMEIS, KNOWS SELFISH HE IS NOT😪
December 21st, 2016 at 4:26 pm
he spent last year getting better control over his body. it paid off. maybe this offseason he will focus on getting better control over his emotions.
December 21st, 2016 at 5:00 pm
The play calling is fine, if our o line leenes how to block again. I would love nothing more than to watch our o line do what they did last season and pound it down defenses throats. But they arent able to di that this season. And since the o line can’t execute their blocks, the play calling needs to account for that. If a play doesnt work, don’t just keep calling it hoping it will pop on the 40th try.
It doesn’t matter what the offense WANTS to be. You are what you are, and the bucs are not a successful running team this season.
I suspect koetter and licht will try harder to get a FB for next season.
December 21st, 2016 at 5:11 pm
It was a heated game and on that play, Jameis felt like Dougie got wrestled down a little hard after his forward progress was stopped. Obviously, Jameis took it personal and got mad.
Understandable, but yea we can’t be taking penalties like that.
December 21st, 2016 at 6:30 pm
From a PLAYERS PERSPECTIVE:
Earl Thomas safety for the Seahawks tweets after the Cowboys s game:
“I respect and love Jameis Winston spirit on the football field. When you really love the game its contagious and it renews the whole team!”
This was reported in the USA TODAY!
BEING A PLAYER WOULD YOU WANT TO PLAY WITH, WAY TO GO JAMEIS GET OTHER PLAYERS INTERESTED IN PLAYING WITH YOU…THE BUCS WIN!
December 21st, 2016 at 7:20 pm
You nailed it on all your posts, Nole4Jaboo! There wasn’t a player on the team that didn’t respect Jameis after that play. He’s got all of Tampa on his back, and he’s pulling this franchise out of the cellar. After seeing that on film, these cats are gonna fight like hell this week in Nola. And Earl Thomas knows what time it is. Posting that comment would’ve been enough to shut this nonsense down.
December 22nd, 2016 at 10:41 am
Don’t take the tiger out of the tiger.