Entering Belicheat Territory
December 13th, 2016
Bucs channeling Belicheat.
If you are going to try to emulate someone in the NFL, why not Bill Belicheat?
Belicheat is the gold standard of modern coaches. No, Joe won’t put him up there yet with Chuck Noll or Vince Lombardi or Bill Walsh or even Paul Brown. But he’s at the top of the next group.
(George Halas, Curly Lambeau, Don Shula, Tom Landry, Joe Gibbs, Father Dungy, Brown, Noll, Lombardi, Walsh. Which name doesn’t belong?)
So the Bucs have accomplished a feat in their current five-game win streak that hasn’t happened in 13 years and the last time it happened, it was a Belicheat team that pulled it off.
Per the famed Elias Sports Bureau, by way of the Bucs media relations folks, the Bucs sealed a win with a takeaway on their opponents’ final possession in four consecutive games. The Belicheats did that in 2003.
And what happened that year? Why, the Belicheats won the Super Bowl.
December 13th, 2016 at 1:08 pm
I was just talking to a friend about the bucs and we agreed that if the bucs make the playoffs.. watch out! We can beat ATL we already beat the Seahawks, I think we can hang with the Giants and Lions.
If we somehow make it to the Super Bowl then the only teams that scare me are the pats and steelers. we should’ve beaten the raiders and we beat the chiefs in arrowhead
Not to get ahead of myself or anything..
December 13th, 2016 at 1:11 pm
If they can ride this streak out to the end and enter the playoffs hot they can do some damage in the postseason. If the offense continues to sputter out in the middle of the field they’re at risk of not even making the dance.
December 13th, 2016 at 1:14 pm
(George Halas, Curly Lambeau, Don Shula, Tom Landry, Joe Gibbs, Father Dungy, Brown, Noll, Lombardi, Walsh. Which name doesn’t belong?)
___________________
Tread carefully Joe. After this past election, you’ll be labeled a racist.
December 13th, 2016 at 1:14 pm
Bellicheat has 7 consecutive 11 win seasons, he regularly cuts probowlers off his team. His 1 constant is his 6th round QB which he turned into the best QB of all time. Not to mention his super bowls wins in NE or NY and possibly ran the best LB corp in the history of the league.
In 20 years these kids will be playing for the Bellicheat Trophy.
And this is from a guy that despises Boston and everything about it except for clam chowder and lobster rolls.
December 13th, 2016 at 1:14 pm
I respectfully disagree that Bellicheat doesn’t belong in the upper echelon of coaches. He does. I absolutely cannot stand the guy. But you have to be really damn good to be strongly disliked. He is an amazing coach.
December 13th, 2016 at 1:18 pm
Yeah DB, 7 consecutive 11 win seasons, that’s a guy you try to emulate! No doubt!
December 13th, 2016 at 1:19 pm
In my best Ira Kaufman impersonation:
“Gentlemen, let me remind you that the last time this franchise won 5 games in a row, they also won the Super Bowl.”
December 13th, 2016 at 1:20 pm
Maybe we should go for a winning season first. We played a sloppy game Sunday against a bad team. We let them stay in the game way too long.
Love the streak but am not subject to the current fickle mania.
December 13th, 2016 at 1:22 pm
He’s arguably the best coach of all time….let’s face it, the talent around the league is far superior than the talent 40 years ago. The game has evolved so much and Bill continues to win and revolve with it.
December 13th, 2016 at 1:30 pm
Noll, Lombardi, Walsh or Brown didn’t win like Bill has in the salary cap era. Dude is the best coach ever in my eyes. Dude just wins no matter what the roster is, or qb, or if he loses coordinators. Not sure how anyone can hate on this guy.
Bill is a legend
December 13th, 2016 at 1:30 pm
Not only does he win but wins easily with buccaneer rejects at that. His only challenge now is to develop/build a coaching tree that is as good as he.
But it all started in NY under Bill Parcell which coincidentally is the same place I learnt football which explains why I’m always so on point with my analysis. I’m sorry you guys didn’t have that luxury.
December 13th, 2016 at 1:31 pm
Last night game showed a stat that the Patriots have won 85 games (maybe straight games) when leading at half time. 85! That’s not too bad.
Beat the Boys on Sunday night in front of the world – and it’s off to the races we SHOULD go!
December 13th, 2016 at 1:55 pm
There’s no one in the NFC that we should be afraid of. That’s not to say that we would beat everyone in the conference, but we can go toe-to-toe with any of them and stand a good chance of winning.
December 13th, 2016 at 2:17 pm
The coach with the career losing playoff record does not belong on that list or Hall of fame. Tom Flores
December 13th, 2016 at 2:26 pm
I do not ever wish to demean Belichek he’s obviously great coach. But which QB’s has he shared a title with? Just one! Belichek without Brady?
Think of the other great names just tossed out. Don Shula…how many different QB’s did he take to championships? And they weren’t all Dan Marinos and Brian Grieses. Shula is a much better coach than Beliechek. Ditto for Paul Brown.
I want to see coaches win with more than one team and more than one QB before I compare them to the Shulas.
Guess it depends on your criteria. Do you respect a coach who builds ONE great team that represents a franchise well for multiple titles or a coach that wins with several different teams and QB’s?
December 13th, 2016 at 2:26 pm
Oops Bob Grieses…the kid was also no Bob Griese.
December 13th, 2016 at 2:48 pm
@SPBF – I’m not sure if that’s apples to apples. Those coaches you’re comparing Belichek to were coaching in a time when it mattered more about your RB and defense than it did who your QB was. They may have run through QBs, but Paul Brown had Jim Brown, Shula had Morris and Czonka, Gibbs had Riggins, and on and on and on. That was the way the game was played back then. Now, a QB is more important. He’s got his guy, much like they had their guys. Doesn’t make him a lesser coach.
December 13th, 2016 at 2:52 pm
He won a SB with Phil Simms for crying out loud but to Patrick’s point they won bc of the running game and Belli defense.
December 13th, 2016 at 2:56 pm
@SPBF – If Koetter takes us to 5 Super Bowls with Jameis, you can bet your sweet a$$ that I’ll be putting him right up there with those HOF coaches, even if it is with just one QB the whole way.
December 13th, 2016 at 2:56 pm
“Tread carefully Joe. After this past election, you’ll be labeled a racist”
Only a clown would even make it an issue
December 13th, 2016 at 3:10 pm
Belichick is better than all those coaches you mentioned. Best ever.
December 13th, 2016 at 3:22 pm
With Tom Brady at Qb.
December 13th, 2016 at 3:29 pm
Everyone keeps ignoring what his record is when Brady misses games and how he had the Browns on the rise before cutting bait with them and heading to NE. You act as though he needs Brady to win, but it’s his system that makes all of the castaways from other teams go to NE and flourish. It’s not that Brady is throwing to them, it’s the coaching style and the coaching tree that he has put in place that makes everyone, not just Brady, perform at their highest levels.
December 13th, 2016 at 3:47 pm
@Patrick
Excellent point. Football does change over the decades and it’s probably unfair to compare between eras on or off the field.
Your point about the decreased value of QB’s is valid and in addition that was before FA when it was easier to build a team and keep your talent. The one thing I do give Belichek major props for doing is doing it in today;s volatile FA NFL.
Chuck Noll is another one QB one team guy…but Pittsburgh people are not whining about four SB’s.
I agree with you…if Koetter and #3 bring us five SB’s I’ll put them both in the HOF!!!
December 13th, 2016 at 4:09 pm
@DB55
And New Edition!
December 13th, 2016 at 4:10 pm
Regarding the point of Belichick winning “only” with Tom Brady… Well, even when Brady was sidelined with injury or suspension, the Patriots continued to win games. I think he’s demonstrated that he can win with other QBs. i don’t really care if Belichick and Brady are tied at the hip in NFL history. Best coach ever, and Brady is a top-5 QB of all time. Belichick is a huge reason Brady is so good.
December 13th, 2016 at 4:13 pm
Stpetebucfan,
I think Shula’ s record and accomplishments put him in any discussion of the greatest Coach all-time. Your post gives him the edge over Billichek because Shula won with more than one team and with multiple QB’s. It’s a good as criteria as any so let’s look into it.
Don Shula won 2 super bowls out 6 attempts. Those two Superbowls Greise was QB. Yes, I’m aware of Earl Morrall. Fact is Shula won 2 with the same guy. I noticed you used the word championships not super bowls. If we include division titles and pre merger championships the QB number moves to 3. 3 QB’s in a 33 year career. Let’s not pretend, Divisional titles are good, Superbowl wins is great. Who has more?
The suggestion that Billichek has been with a single team vs Shula’ s two teams,
is promptly negated by only one team Shula coached won a super bowl. And here’s the deathblow to “He’s only coached one team” vs Shula’ s two. Shula coached in an era before free agency and salary caps. Shula if you consider his rosters and how many players he actually started over 33 seasons it isn’t even comparable to the legions of players churned thru the patriots. The Pats roster changes every couple years , Dolphins were a picture of stability. The Pats wins are much greater because of the league’s best efforts to prevent a dynasty. Dolphins, Steelers, Cowboys and 49’ers built dynasties and the league rules allowed them to retain the same players year after year. I guarantee that more people are able to name the players from those teams with far more ease than remember the pats players from 2 years ago.
Billichek>>>>>Shula.
December 13th, 2016 at 4:34 pm
Not a chance. Not this year.
December 13th, 2016 at 4:37 pm
Bucs have no chance at a Superbowl unless they can beat the Cowboys. If they win this next game, then I’ll be a believer that an SB is possible this year.
I have no problem believing it for next year though.
December 13th, 2016 at 5:23 pm
Don Shula won NFL Championships with the Baltimore Colts. He won SuperBowls with the Miami Dolphins. The NFL Championship games were played in the home stadium of the team with the best conference record. Beats the plastic StuporBowl cos it is a real home game for one of the teams. As far as Belicheat goes, let’s see what happens when Brady retires. Vince Lombardi, Belicheat ain’t.
December 13th, 2016 at 5:33 pm
@Duke
That was just an excellent post!!!! One of the best in months. I love when people use carefully thought out arguments to disagree with my opinion.
You make some very valid points but sadly I still come down with Shula > Belicheck
Now Belichek does have more left to his career and there is no doubt if he wins without Brady he will be recognized as the greatest.
I do not like Bill Parcells personality but ya gotta give him credit in these discussions as well.
Another interesting stat would be if any of these coaches failed anywhere. I do not believe Shula claims that…. Belichek has failed with at least one franchise.
December 13th, 2016 at 6:31 pm
Mixx
Is New Edition from Boston? Then let’s add them to the list.
December 13th, 2016 at 7:23 pm
We will kill the boys!
December 13th, 2016 at 9:12 pm
I’m not for sure Joe but I don’t think those other coaching gods cheated during their time.
December 14th, 2016 at 4:45 am
@Orlbucfan,
First, let me clear about placing one Coach over the other, it’s entirely subjective and depends entirely on the criteria we as individuals choose to apply to our own evaluations. There is no correct answers. But there is a distinction between opinions and they can be evaluated by the supporting evidence or lack thereof.
In your comments you state Shula won NFL championships. Championships is plural implying more than 1. This isn’t true. The Colts won a NFL Championship.
You place a higher value on this than a Super bowl victory. How you do is not explained. But if you consider explaining that idea, please include a few words about the value of a Colts NFL Championship compared to the their super bowl loss to the Jets.
Apparently you’re unaware that the same year the Colts won their only NFL Championship they had an additional game to play. The Super bowl. They didn’t win even though they were a prohibitive favorite. Perhaps you’ve heard of Joe Nameth.
The fact is the NFL Championship is today’s equivalent of an NFC or AFC conference championship. Superbowls are generally considered the apex of a particular season. Prior to the Superbowl era the 2 league’s never had a game to determine who was better. The Superbowl settled the issue on the field. I’ll simply invoke “scoreboard” to close.
December 14th, 2016 at 5:11 am
Stpetebucsfan,
Thank you for the kind words. In your reply you bring up an interesting point. In a discussion were there is strong arguments on both sides a point like the one you mention could tilt the scales so to speak. Interesting point that I have to consider before responding to. I have always been amazed with Shula’ s learning curve or lack of it. He became a Head Coach who quite frankly would be considered by any account under qualified to promote as a HC. Yet, He was prepared and never had a period that would be considered a learning curve. Koetter is going thru one and he has years of NFL coaching experience. Shula was a relative beginner. Interesting line of thought, I respect that and appreciate it.
Side note, the Coach who gave Shula his first opportunity as an asst coach, was my high school coach.
December 14th, 2016 at 5:37 am
Belicheat wouldn’t even crack the top 30 all time coaches list without Brady. And Belicheat doesn’t get credit for Brady’s skill at the QB position. Come on.
Belicheat is a very good coach who lucked into the greatest-of-all-time QB and roads him into the record books.
He’s no better than Gruden or Billick or whoever.
December 14th, 2016 at 11:57 am
Lombardi won consistently in an era where he only competed against roughly 13 other teams…. THIRTEEN! There’s 15 teams just in the AFC alone that Belichick has to compete with. Just from an odds standpoint, there was a 7% chance that a Lombardi team would be named the champs but in present day, with 32 teams there now stands a 3% chance. There’s more than twice as many teams, there’s 33% more games for a star (Starr) player to get injured. What Belichick has done for the length of time and as consistently as he’s done puts him on par with nobody, he is the best.
Don Shula isn’t even in the conversation. Don was great for longevity and some really good seasons intertwined with mediocrity. He was excellent in the 60’s and 70’s, pretty good in the 80’s, and average in the 90’s. Overall, he was a great coach, but he won the Super Bowl twice but lost it four other times. He’s definitely top five but not even close to Belichick. That dude can win with anybody, Matt Cassell (!?), Jimmy Garropolo, Jacoby Brissett.
Though it’s true that having a great QB helped him a ton, I think having Belichick as a coach has helped Brady even more.
December 14th, 2016 at 2:55 pm
Warthog
First, any Coach who you have ahead of Bilichiek will also have a HOF QB associated with him.
Second,what’s Bilichiecks record without Tom Brady?
Doesn’t matter who plays QB, Billichieks record is unbelievable.
Brandon said it above and He’s dead on. Brady didn’t make Billichek, Billichiek made Brady. If the Browns had drafted Brady, I believe there’s no reason to continue the hog is dead.