Mixed Messages
November 7th, 2016
Responsible for subpar play.
One reason Joe was reassured by the hiring of defensive coordinator Mike Smith was the notion Smith would mold a defense around his available talent.
It was the opposite of Lovie Smith, who demanded players play what he wanted, whether they were suited for his defense or not. The results in 2014 and 2015 were painfully obvious.
But to hear 16-year NFL veteran and Bucs radio color analyst Dave Moore speak today on WDAE-AM 620 with Tom Krasniqi and Ronnie Lane, Mike Smith seems to be much more like Lovie Smith. Part of the problem, per Moore, is the players don’t yet understand Mike Smith’s defense.
“There is a learning curve,” Moore said. “Any time you get a new coach when you draft and get players as free agents and do some things, it takes a bit to get the right pieces in the right spot. Yes, there is a learning curve. You can’t play 100 percent flat out full speed if you are not exactly sure what you are doing. Combination of not having players they really need in certain spots along with the fact there is some uncertainly.
“It’s not real visible. [I’ve] seen times in the past the Bucs are looking at each other and you can just tell just before the ball is snapped nobody is really sure where they are supposed to be, or who is supposed to help who. Don’t see that much, but mostly guys out of position or outmanned at certain positions.
“The key for players and the coaches along with the fans is to see some improvement. With Lovie at the end of the season last year … we didn’t see any improvement from that defense. Mike Smith is trying to figure out who is going to be the guy in each spot to give them the best opportunity to win. It is frustrating for everybody.”
This sure smells like Lovie Smith II, based on what Moore is suggesting. This is disappointing because Joe had the idea that Mike Smith would not try to ram a specific defense down players’ throats.
And pardon Joe if he isn’t totally buying the players don’t know Smith’s defense. Hey Jude said his college defense was very similar and, of course, Brent Grimes played for Smith in Atlanta.
However, numbers seem to support Moore’s notion that it takes maybe a year — Smith has stated in the past the curve would last four games. Every new defensive coordinator was hired for the 2016 season has a struggling defense with the exception of Jim Schwartz in Philadelphia, whose defense is No. 6 in the NFL in fewest points allowed.
If, as Moore noted, you see players looking at each other not knowing what to do before the ball is snapped, that crap should not be happening by the ninth game of the season. That’s on the coaching staff. If, through OTAs and minicamps and training camp and preseason and half the regular season guys don’t know what to do, then the coaches aren’t getting through to the players.
To hear Moore’s full interview, click the button below. Audio courtesy of WDAE-AM 620.
November 7th, 2016 at 2:38 pm
Could have had Jim Schwartz but nope. Nepotism is ruining this team.
November 7th, 2016 at 2:45 pm
Brees and rivers cant wait to see us
40+ each game
Turn off the licht!
November 7th, 2016 at 2:54 pm
The basic problem is that the organization has no football philosophy or identity. So we go from one system to another, having to go through major personnel changes and a whole transition to a new system. I never liked the Lovie
November 7th, 2016 at 2:55 pm
Hire because he was committed to his system. But having made the hire, switching only compounds the error. Now we have to fill the roster up with Jacksonville and Atlanta retreads. The defensive woes were too predictable.
November 7th, 2016 at 3:04 pm
Right, because you can just force a coach to coach for your team, regardless of what they want to do or not.
Who’s to say that we didn’t reach out to Schwartz and he said, “no thanks”
But what do i know. You obviously work in the front office and know everything that goes on behind the scenes.
November 7th, 2016 at 3:14 pm
No matter what the scheme, you can’t have 11 different players doing their own thing. Our Lb’s are always out of place. All Lb’s want to do is play down-hill, they bite on every play action fake. And now they are missing tackles. Although Kwon has flashed at times, don’t forget he was a 4th round pick.
This team needs a serious talent upgrade, and no one’s job should be safe. The only way to improve talent is to draft best players available. We have been gifting guys starting roles for too damn long.
November 7th, 2016 at 3:19 pm
nepotism? that’s retarded…
November 7th, 2016 at 3:25 pm
People need to settle down. We’re not very good. We don’t have safeties and we don’t have any impact pass rushers yet and our DTs are banged up. Quick turnarounds in a completely new scheme are the exception, not the rule, and when you don’t have the horses to play great D, it’s gonna be ugly. They need to devote the entire next offseason to adding defensive players, and refining the scheme so they can get this thing together. That’s just reality. If the D begins to improve by season’s end, then great, but we still need players. We’re not going to the playoffs this year.
November 7th, 2016 at 3:32 pm
There’s no dressing it up. It’s ugly and we need to fix it. Player’s play!
November 7th, 2016 at 3:58 pm
Here we go. The dreaded “learning curve” cliche. “Oh it takes time!!” This is the phrase that the Buccaneers radio network start breaking out when the season looks lost and they need to do something to calm the fires. I got news for you – every year since Gruden left, the defense looks just as crappy in the 2nd year as they did in the first year when they were completely unfamiliar with it.
You sorry sacks. I learned and entire semester of Business Stats 2 at FSU in three days. I guarantee you that’s more complicated than this defense. You got guys on the Bucs D running around lost. They’re not eVEN right BY ACCIDENT.
November 7th, 2016 at 4:02 pm
Been saying it since the day smith was hired he needs to be fired and jay hayes promoted. Hayes knows real defenses that can produce results in the league. Sick of this horse crap.
This team actually has a shot to do good this season still if the defense changes….but this is not the man to do it!!!
November 7th, 2016 at 4:09 pm
Nice to see the Yucs have mastered “The Peter Principle”. Don’t ask for patience and time to learn the system year after year after year. It’s a built in excuse embedded within the walls of OBP. Sadly, these coaches and players need to be treated according to the product and output.
November 7th, 2016 at 4:17 pm
Don’t want to hear that excuse again. Jim Swartz has had less time than Mike Smith has had and he runs a real defense.
All I want to see next game is improvement with cornerback alignments. I’m not asking for press coverage, just line up 3-5 yards away cause what we’re doing now clearly isn’t working.
November 7th, 2016 at 4:36 pm
Already well established that Koetter and Smith had a handshake deal. If either would become a head coach (in Smith’s case, “again”) the other would be hired as a coordinator.
So when Licht/Team Glazer hired Koetter, it was a package deal.
November 7th, 2016 at 4:40 pm
Takes time for what? If we had brought in Greg Williams or Schwartz or a Buddy ball disciple I could see it, but it looks very much like the same D we been running for 2 and half years. Soft corners, safeties backpedaling on the snap, wide open spaces over the middle, and no pass rush. Did I miss anything? Besides the obvious lack of talent on the D line and safety how bout we try to send a safety or corner blitz once a month?
November 7th, 2016 at 4:52 pm
So by all means lets change coaches Again! So it will take another two or three years for players to get it… lets give it a chance man, Every time we change a coach we have to get rid of players because they don’t fit the new system, then bring in new players, and everyone needs to get up to speed, and that’s without injury’s… we have to stick with something for a few years.
November 7th, 2016 at 5:18 pm
@Joe … “This is disappointing because Joe had the idea that Mike Smith would not try to ram a specific defense down players’ throats.” Really Joe? You were maybe expecting that Smitty would devise a specific defense for each specific starter and each rotational player? Mike Smith, based on his years of experience as a DC, obviously had his own defensive scheme in mind when he took the job. What he didn’t know was how well the Bucs defensive players would fit that scheme. How could he? He had never coached most of those guys.
Smitty ended up having to deal with the leftovers from Lovie’s Tampa 2 scheme, plus Bucs added a few of guys in the process (Ayers, Grimes, D. Smith plus the 2 rookies, VHIII and N. Spence). Haven’t been overly impressed with any of those 5 to this point in the season. But then again, it is yet another new system to the Bucs players, with a new DC and positional coaches, with some new players mixed in, and quite frankly, lacking talent at almost all positions. Chemistry seems to be almost non-existent. Personally don’t think it’s that Mike Smith is so much like Lovie Smith, but rather that his results are. Same basic talent level pretty much assures that unfortunately.
November 7th, 2016 at 5:37 pm
Don’t wanna say i told ya so, or slam the door shut on Mike Smith turning things around. But I knew in my gut that Mike Smith was a Bad hire for D coordinator.
Dudes Defenses in Atl were always average at best and abysmal at worst. I was right there with you Joe, or Lee I guess. I wanted Jim Schwartz.
November 7th, 2016 at 6:03 pm
moore was saying that he was not seeing the confused pre-snap looks this year, that guys just look outmanned. certainly not a good thing, but also not an equal indictment of coaching vs last year
November 7th, 2016 at 6:33 pm
My question is how many teams have asked the Bucs for permission to interview Mike Smith for potential head coaching opening around the league. It’s gotta me multiple.
November 7th, 2016 at 6:52 pm
This ain’t nothing but my coach my scheme part 2. It takes 5 years to adjust to the scheme etc. F that I know what defensive improvement looks like. These are the corners(smaller agile) that they hand picked. Any scheme looks good with the right players so don’t give me that ish. Your job is to coach the players you have.
November 7th, 2016 at 6:54 pm
@joe
They don’t know what talent looks like. I heard him and Koetter say that conte has corner skills. Get these buffoons out of here.
November 7th, 2016 at 8:01 pm
He have the exact same defense he used in Atlanta, that’s why him and Koetter was fired.
November 7th, 2016 at 8:15 pm
I’ll say this:
I was ok with Smith’s hiring, he was a damn good HC with the Falcons…
BUT… his defenses in ATL always seemed like a bag full of pu**ies and here we are.
The Bucs have a defense led by two of the most talented pu**ies in the NFL! McCoy and Lavonte both have extreme talent yet lack that mental toughness and mean streak to truly be GREAT.
The results don’t lie. They can rack up stats for the record books but the meaningful, gut-check, impact, “not on my watch”, “this sh*t needs to end”, type plays are absent with these guys. They’re NOT leaders of men.
Best thing about Dirk being the HC is we can now fire the DC without an entire regime change. I’m all for it!
There are defenses with less talent having better results. Smitty’s ass is on the chopping block ready for the grill.
#lichmyb*lls
November 7th, 2016 at 8:16 pm
Sorry, Correction:
#lichtmyb*lls
Meathead, knuckle dragging, kicker drafting MF!
November 7th, 2016 at 11:39 pm
These defensive players have officially been given every possible excuse in the world. Chihuahua’s on defenses, go get some violent physical fast defenders and watch the learning curve disappear
November 8th, 2016 at 1:37 pm
Gotta get after the QB. The combo of McCoy, Ayers and David should get a sack per game between the 3 of them. Thats at least 20% of the Bucs payroll in 3 guys. Is it too much for one of them to get a sack?
Will Gholdston has been their best defensive linemen.
I do see Noah Spence making some plays, he needs to be moved around, it looks like he can be a good pass rusher if they can get him in the right position
November 8th, 2016 at 2:47 pm
Elio T is accurate