“The Chance To Get To Seven Is There”
August 9th, 2016
A top NFL insider puts a number on Dirk Koetter’s head
So how good are the 2016 Buccaneers?
A couple of heavyweights of the NFL weighed in yesterday.
First, Joe will share the take of The Professor of BSPN, John Clayton, whose been an NFL insider for decades.
Clayton likes what the Bucs have done, believes they’ve just started a “two-year process on defense” and are a full year away from making serious noise, so he told WDAE-AM 620 yesterday.
“The chance to get to seven [wins] is there,” Clayton said of the Bucs’ immediate hopes. “And the chance to get above that could be coming, it’s just a matter of how quickly that defense can come together.”
He went on to liken the Bucs to the Raiders, just a year behind where Oakland is following their 7-9 campaign last year.
Ironically, if the Bucs are to scratch out seven wins this season, the Raiders likely will be a must-win on their schedule, Oct. 30 in Tampa.
August 9th, 2016 at 9:10 am
Anything less than 8 wins is a failed season. The Buccaneers fired the last coach because they felt they could do better. So far it seems to be the right choice. They sign Ayers, Sweezy, and had what seems to be a decent draft. They resigned Doug Martin. Last year’s rookies are a year wiser. There is no reason why the Bucs aren’t markedly better this season.
Every team in the NFL is talented and almost all NFL games are decided by a couple of plays which is why “the schedule is tougher” talk is nonsense. Most of you around here will not hold Dirk Koetter to the same standard as you did with Lovie Smith which makes me wonder if all the hate goes beyond football.
August 9th, 2016 at 9:11 am
7 to 8 wins would be huge this year, if the schedule is even close to how tough it looks this year!!! Marked improvement in penalties!!! playing close games into the 4th quarter!!! That would show me this team is on the way!!!!
The core is young!!! new defensive coaching staff!!! coaching the lovie out of some of the leftovers to see what can be salvaged!!!!
1 more good draft and this team could really be something!!!!
(Wr, TE, DT Safety)
Go Bucs!!!!!!!!!!!
August 9th, 2016 at 9:29 am
So D-Rome you are saying that losing a close game on the road to the Cardinals is the same as getting blown out on the road by the Rams? If you truly believe that you need to pick a different sport.
August 9th, 2016 at 9:37 am
I don’t know if you think race was involved with the firing of Lovie, but I think that is a pretty lame argument D-Rome. I don’t think the Bucs were any better after two years with Lovie than they were with Schiano. You have to be a pretty stupid fan not to see improvement in Koetter’s tenure so far. The fact that a “defensive coach” failed to improve the overall team, plus the fact that they lost 4 games in a row didn’t sit well with management. Pretty much what happened to Gruden in his last year, losing at the end cost him his job depite going 9-7. I really don’t care what the final numbers are as long as we keep the path. The record is secondary compared to the play on the field, when a team gives up, that usually spells the end of a coach… If this team plays its guts out each week and teams fear coming to RayJay, then we are on the right track!
August 9th, 2016 at 9:40 am
Like some have said here the Bucs choked away potential wins last season, games that could have been won with more effort and fewer mistakes. Less choking, more wins even with a tougher schedule.
August 9th, 2016 at 9:44 am
Sorry but as bad as they were last year, they should have stiil won more than y games. Under Dirk I see a minimum of 8 and will take a few bets on that!
August 9th, 2016 at 9:45 am
We need nine wins and at least a chance at the playoffs. Why not? Garbage Lovie had his poorly coached team at 6-6 at one point last year. Mike Smith’s defense, just by virtue of the scheme, has to make them significantly better. And now JW is in year 2. Why can’t this team win more. Mark the tape, if this D gets any kind of a pass rush, and injuries are minimal, why can’t this team win 9 games?
August 9th, 2016 at 9:52 am
Sounds like you’re preparing your ready made excuses for a losing season. Let me guess, you’re one of those types who think a 6-10 season under Dirk Koetter is somehow better than a 6-10 season under Lovie.
There’s no such thing as a good loss in professional sports. If you sit there and say, “You know what, we gave a good effort and only lost by six points” then *you* need to pick a different sport. You’re embarrassing the rest of us.
August 9th, 2016 at 9:57 am
Doubt that true Bucs fans really care about how many wins various talking heads project us to win this year. Lots of folks in the national media project us to be near-bottom-dwellers again. So what … WE KNOW BETTER. Bucs are building something special. Just watch, our 2016 Bucs are going to make some noise. Like quite a few other die-hard Bucs fans, I’m onboard for 8-10 wins this year, and even better in 2017. Injuries will play a roll (like they always do) as will ‘Lady Luck’ (ball doesn’t always bounce the Bucs’ way it seems). No sweat, we’ll still get into that 8-10 win window. This team’s got heart and we’re going to see that on gamedays. Go Bucs !!!
August 9th, 2016 at 9:57 am
I agree with all of this. My expectation for this team is 9 wins. Eight wins is a bare minimum to show improvement. When a team makes the kind of changes the Bucs made in 2016 you do so to improve the team because you believe the next guy or group of personnel is better. By all accounts and observations the team is better. Anyone who sets the bar low for this team deep down believes the Glazers made another mistake.
August 9th, 2016 at 10:05 am
D-Rome. Lovie got fired for the sole reason he sucked !! He was a defense guru and any QB off the street was having career day on scheme not players. Go look up percentage on 3rd down than watch tape how far off the scheme had them play.
Once he traded revis for 4 bust it told me he is a scheme coach he can’t put players talent to best use.
Schiano in 4 years would have had team further than Lovie cause at least schiano showed building blocks. Lovie had more talent than Greg when arrived and dos nothing with it along with boneheaded free agent pick up which he made final call on.
Kotter can be judged after 2/3 of season
August 9th, 2016 at 10:14 am
@D Rome,
You’re right that a 6-10 record by Koetter would effectively be the same as the 6-10 record by Lovie. If the team plays the same way under Koetter, i may even say he needs to go after one year. However it its possible that team plays better overall, and is still only 6-10.
For a first year coach on a team that has 5 consecutive last place finishes, how the team plays through 16 games is more important than the final record. If Koetter makes it to year 3, meaning the team has been showing improvement the first two years, then 6-10 should not be accepted, regardless of how the team plays.
If you look at lovie’s teams the past two years, you cannot say there’s been improvement in the overall play of the team, especially on defense, which was lovie’s expertise. The way the Bucs lost games last year, just pointed out how the game had passed lovie by. The Bucs got to 6 wins last year in spite of lovie being HC, not because.
August 9th, 2016 at 10:22 am
I foresee 10-6 and a wildcard birth. Simply because we have continuity on offense. The biggest question mark would be defense. Now from what I’ve read about the team is that the D philosophy is more liberating and enables players to make plays. Not stringent scheme dependent assignments. The good news for us is that we have a defense full of quality players. Knock on wood barring mass injuries this defense will be infinitely better than that of Coach My Scheme. This is going to be a great year.
August 9th, 2016 at 10:24 am
Koetter now has better talent and, by most accounts, better coaches. We can argue till we’re blue in the face about coaching. At the end of the day, players have to make plays. We had sub-par talent OR sub-par play coupled with bad coaching. Based on the upgrade of talent, the expectations SHOULD be higher. I think 7 wins should be the minimum.
August 9th, 2016 at 10:24 am
I’m with DR 8-10 and I’ll be disappointed if we don’t hit the ten!!!
Obviously as DR mentioned injuries play a huge role, not just on our team but on our division rivals as well. Do we think the season will turn out the same if Cam went down in the first game of the year. That would be horrible for us as well because we want to beat the stinkin’ Panthers straight up with no excuses!
I look at the really good teams and start adding up “playmakers”. This team has been largely devoid of “playmakers” with a few notable exceptions like VJAX and GMC.
But look at us now…Doug Martin..Charles Sims…VJAX…ME13…all legitimate playmakers with of course our franchise QB…#3 the ultimate playmaker. If we are healthy we are good to go on offense. We also have the complimentary pieces in place…a strong offensive line and other targets like Brate and Hump.
Defense has the “potential” to also be full of playmakers. In addition to LVD and GMC we now have Kwon..and hopefully Spence..and some spark at CB.
We can afford to stumble at the start to a 2-3 record against stiff competition.
But the back end of our schedule is not that tough…it basically comes down to us against the division…Carolina…TOUGH…Atlanta and NO..not that tough.
August 9th, 2016 at 10:27 am
D-Rome I am not preparing my self for anything as I could se this team in the playoffs this year but I also have eyes and I know what eyes see. Last year it was a team that was horribly prepared and did not adjust time and time again. I say a team get their doors blown off at home by a rookie QB and a team that ended up getting the 1st pick in the draft. I say a defense give up a 20+ point lead to Washington, I saw a team get totally beat down by a nobody QB on national TV. I say a team lose 4 games in a row to end the season. I saw us beat a horrible Dallas team by hanging on till the very last play. I say all of them and it was horrible so no I am not preparing myself for losing but I am preparing myself for better performances and that is what we can hope for as quite a bit goes into wins and losses. I want my team to be given a chance to win games by the coaching staff not have to overcome the coaching staff.
August 9th, 2016 at 10:27 am
Its a passing league. Throughout the 16 games, the QB has the most influence at that crucial time to win or lose the game.
2015, we had the 20th ranked offense. Jameis didnt get any “playmakers” receivers to help him in the 2016 season.
2015 Mankins WILL BE MISSED. 2016 = offensive line woes
Our Offense is FLAWED!
All we kept saying is “Its Jameis 2nd year we are going to be automatically better. Its Jameis 2nd year! 2nd year!”
Yes, the QB is much more comfortable in the 2nd year, But past history states that the GM started building and adding playmakers to help the 2nd year QB to make the 2nd year season a success
Licht has not given Jameis anything but age older
We are flawed
“I wanted to be drafted by the Tampa Bay Bucs and play in front of poster Kobe Faker” Sterling Shepard
August 9th, 2016 at 10:39 am
A couple of teams come along and turn there season around in one year, that’s not the norm people, it usually takes a little time! If we get 7 wins we should have kept LOVIE, no if’s, no excuses, if the number of wins got LOVIE fired, then 7 wins should lead coach K to the out house, the foundation that coach K was provided and the new all world staff with a defensive draft ( which LOVIE never had) should gift us 9 wins, I believe coach K can will deliver 9 wins people, stop with all the excuses! Time to Man Up!
August 9th, 2016 at 10:39 am
…..”Most of you around here will not hold Dirk Koetter to the same standard as you did with Lovie Smith which makes me wonder if all the hate goes beyond football.”
Really D-ROME???? That kinda of talk is silliness and it doesn’t belong here or in sports in general. You want to start a race war join BLM or something but get that kinda of talk out of here. GEEZ Man I get enough of that watching the news.
August 9th, 2016 at 10:51 am
@D-Rome. So you’re saying you feel just the same about watching a game where your team looses to the Superbowl champs by 1 point after fighting tooth and nail to the last play is the same as you feel watching your team loose by 35 points and basically giving up before the end of the first half? Sorry I don’t but that even from you.
As a fan, it’s more about enjoying the game than it is the end score on any given game. Sure winning matters, but so too does seeing your team take opponents to the last second. If it’s just about the final score why watch the game at all? Just check the box score after the results are in and make better use of the time.
August 9th, 2016 at 10:53 am
I believe many need reminding that unless we win the division, 10 wins gives less than a 50% chance of making the playoffs.
IMO, 8 or 9 total wins is realistic considering the schedule. If the team is 3-2 heading into the bye week after the MNF game in Carolina, then we can start to have hope for a winning season and perhaps more in 2016.
August 9th, 2016 at 10:59 am
10wins is the bar….with the additions we made on defense which include a talented pass rusher, a talented cb and a proven vet that can play de/dt we should be able to hit 10wins….
the team won 6games with the so called “incompetent one” running the show…surely with a competent defensive coaching staff and the defensive talent upgrade we should make the playoffs…..
@drome- I hear where your coming from….lots of people on here think that a 6-10 record with dirk is better than a 6-10 record with lovie….but these people fail to realize regardless of how things look you are what your record says you are….it kills me when people say I just want the bucs to be competitive during the 4th quarter…FOOLS…a “L” is a “L” no matter if you lose by 1 or lose by 30….
last year had more to do with the lack of talent and iq level on defense than lovie and his scheme….we now have a few 1st rounders on the defense(gmc,r.ayers,vhg)…last year we had 1….we now have a couple of 2nd rounds that could/should’ve been first rounders on the defense as opposed to “0” last year(n.spence, d.smith)….
10wins and a playoff berth or I will be disappointed….anything less than 9wins and licht is on the hot seat….GO BUCS!!!!
August 9th, 2016 at 11:22 am
@813bucboi
Mike Jenkins was a first rounder, coach my scheme had more, but he ran them off didn’t he!!!!!!!
Funny that you are trying to put the bar where it would have taken your hero the incompetent one 3 years to complete!!!!! did you already forget all the ineptness on the coaching??? The Blowouts???? Why is no other NFL team will not even talk to coach my scheme if he was any good????? The truth is, He was Exposed!!!!!!
just like lovie’s reputation, This Class is Over!!!!!!!
Go Bucs!!!!!!!
August 9th, 2016 at 11:23 am
You know, I actually agree with this. For all of the criticisms against Schiano and his “stunting” on the defensive line he was absolutely correct about Josh Freeman. Despite his record breaking season Schiano knew exactly what he had in Freeman and he decided to draft a QB. It’s safe to say that Glennon is a better QB than the Coney Island Thrasher. By the way, Da’Quan Bowers’ career never took off after Schiano was replaced but he sure did a lot of complaining about Schiano.
August 9th, 2016 at 11:31 am
@bucvol2….dirk wont be held to the same standard…have you read so of these post?…excuses for him are already a mile long….
when lovie was first hired I believe everyone thought we would have a decent season….then we went 2-14….many wanted him gone after that season….last year we won 6games and he was canned after showing improvement which many people want to dispute…regardless of what people think wining 6 games after winning only 2 is an improvement….
now if dirk were to only win 5games his first year people will say he was a rookie hc….or the defense needs time to gel….or he had to coach the lovie out of players…or the schedule was tougher….
meanwhile they ignore the fact the lovie had to start and finish a season with no oc….that’s like trying to swim while wearing jeans and steal toe boots…sure it can be done but depending how far you have to swim you might drown….also having 1 first rounder and 5 or 6 undrafted FA start on defense(j.smith, h.jones, jude, Bradley mcdougal,danny vinsanah, tony McDaniel) is no way to compete in the nfl….lovie didn’t have the talent of defense(spence,ayers,vhg,d.smith)….
not race but fairness…if dirk cant get us to the playoffs this year or next he should and would deserve to get canned….GO BUCS!!!
August 9th, 2016 at 11:34 am
“The chance to get to seven is there.” That quote is exactly on point. If everything goes the Bucs way and Winston continues to develop, there is a chance to get to seven wins with this brutal schedule. The 2017-2018 season will be the chance to breakout to ten or twelve wins.
August 9th, 2016 at 11:42 am
@813bucboi
And he did not start and finish with a Defensive Coordinator either!!!! But that was his rap from Chicago!!!!! He is unstable with his coordinators!!!! No stability!!!! What we have now in Coaches is far greater than the Incompetent one!!!
August 9th, 2016 at 11:43 am
Other than @ARI and @CAR, every one of those games is winnable. We play Denver in Tampa week 4, but they lost Malik Jackson who really balanced out that defense and Danny Trevathan is gone too. We can win that game, they got Mark Sanchez at qb.
Week 7 @SF we come off a bye, we should def be prepared and motivated. Plus SF is awful.
Week 8 vs OAK will be tough. They have talent on both sides. The saving grace is we will be at home so as. Long as we give 110% a win here is very possible.
Later on we play @KC. That game will be tough. We gotta estsblish the run early. Don’t let Justin Houston and Tamba Hali run wild with multiple third and longs. It’s funny just because KC uses the short passing game with lots if three steps and if Lovie were still here this game would probably get Alex Smith a spot on the all pro team lol. Seriously, this one will be tough.
And we also play SEA in Tampa. Tbey lost their best run stopper in Bruce Irving, so we can really take advantage tiring out Bennet and Chancellor and co. Again, in Tampa we have a chance.
@DAL late in the year, their defense is a mess, so as long as our defense can contain Romo/Dez I don’t see a whole lot to worry about.
Every other game we should really have an edge in. This schedule is more difficult but it’s not over the top, at least not with our talent and a staff that can, you know, utilize it. I say 9-7
August 9th, 2016 at 11:48 am
The Bucsrealist is Jim Kinzer. Ease up on the effing exclamation points DH
August 9th, 2016 at 11:50 am
I wonder how many fans of of the Bucs who are not FSU fans realize now why we had no doubt about JW? It’s fun, uh.
August 9th, 2016 at 12:16 pm
Gilhealy – F-in A right there.
Very lively conversation but if firing Lovie gets us one more win, I’ll take it but it will be disappointing if we don’t go .500 this season.
August 9th, 2016 at 12:28 pm
@REALIST….wow…ok that would make 2 1st rounders…mike Jenkins still isn’t as talented as grimes, vhg or even banks….granted mike Jenkins was never the same after his torn pec and hamstring injury….a blow out lost and a lost by one point still gets you a “L” in the lost column….the only one exposed is you and your excuses….GO BUCS!!!!
August 9th, 2016 at 12:32 pm
@REALIST….the year we went 2-14 the defense was not the problem…..it was the offense…oline in particular….he finished as the defensive coor that year…I guess you missed that….GO BUCS!!!!
August 9th, 2016 at 12:46 pm
@813BucBoi
you are the one that was counting 1st rounders and now that it is closer than you thought, you are now saying that this one is better than that one!!!! LOL
Coach my scheme took over play calling the defense thus becoming the de facto Defensive Coordinator!!!!!! Which in you own words became worse when the Incompetent one took over!!!! Thanks for making my arguments for me!!!!
The Prosecution rest and recommends the a life time ban from the Pros for gross incompetence displayed by the incompetent one!!!!LOL!!!!!!!!!
August 9th, 2016 at 12:48 pm
@813BucBoi
check the date player!!!!!
https://www.joebucsfan.com/2015/08/report-lovie-to-takeover-playcalling-duties/
August 9th, 2016 at 1:29 pm
DRome is right. Some of the hate by a few of you goes beyond football. It can be seen in just the way you talk about the man and every little thing he did or didn’t say or he wasn’t forth coming of info or even so more question his intelligence like he’s some kind imbicile. Greg Schiano produced almost as worst defenses and only a few more wins than Lovie did but you same people swear up an down he’s a better coach. When did he ever lead Rutgers to the national championship? With a good team and coaches Lovie lead the Bears to the Superbowl, but of course he gets absolutely no credit from these same people. If you kept it sole about football it would be questionable to bring up race but you don’t. None of you call Schiano the names and venom you use against Lovie.
August 9th, 2016 at 1:55 pm
WHY SHOULD WE care what clayton thinks….????????????????????????
Did any experts give the 2007 Giants a shot h e double L????? All the Giants did was go on the road 11 straight times and win, including the dismantling of a heavy favorite undefeated Patriots team in the super bowl to cap it all off.
A lot of Buccs fans/pundits have us looking towards the draft next season. Screw that…we only have right now to work with.
ROBERT AYERS has the RIGHT mindset. Doesn’t care what the projections are, doesn’t care that no one believes in us. Doesn’t matter to him. He’s going out there with the relentless MINDSET that JAMEIS WINSTON preached this offseason, to be physical, nasty, to be fast, to play to win (bringing back the prison mentality to the defense).
August 9th, 2016 at 1:57 pm
Ironically, as I aforementioned….the last time the Buccs were in a playoff game was against those same Giants in 2007…
the NEW mindset BEGINS on 9/11.
August 9th, 2016 at 2:12 pm
If anyone objectively believes the coaching staff was better at any time under Lovie Smith than it is right now, the only thing that you are looking at is the color of Lovie’s skin. All things being equal, I would like an African-American head coach, based on the racial makeup of the player pool, I believe that it would be an easier draw during free agency. I backed Lovie to the end until after the first season. His staff was not very good. Coaching matters. Assistants are tremendously important. Lovie has not surrounded himself with strong assistants and when he has had one, he runs them off (see Ron Rivera) Position coaches are paramount to a young team. Family members probably aren’t the best option to work for you unless you own the business. My last post ever on Lovie.
I am super excited about the direction of the Bucs. I believe the defense will need some time to work out the kinks. By week 4 we will see if it will come together. 7 wins… absolute improvement. We may have won 6 last year, but losing the last 4 killed the team. This year could be anything from 6 to 11 wins in my opinion. I will base my opinion on how we play, how we compete versus the won/loss record. If the team lays down like it did several times last year, we could win 8 and I will be uneasy. If we play hard and are competitive, and win only 6, Ok.
August 9th, 2016 at 2:13 pm
@DavidBigBucsFan99
“None of you call Schiano the names and venom you use against Lovie.”
True!!!!! We were busy calling names and venom at Mark Dominik!!!!!! You can use the Archives!!!!! See for yourself!!!!!!!
August 9th, 2016 at 2:51 pm
@realist….lol….you act like i said we only had 1 first rounder and you provided me with an example of 4….sorry bro but you prove my point….the lack of talent was evident…..lovie’s first season he was without a oc….that is fact….that same year the defense was actually the strength of the team….that is fact…..if lovie would’ve had the defensive talent that dirk has now, I would guarantee he would get to 10 wins….that part we’ll never know….but we will know soon enough if we still have an incompetent coach….GO BUCS!!!!
August 9th, 2016 at 3:31 pm
@813bucboi
the decision to put Arroyo in charge of the offense all year long was huge. At the very least Lovie should have taken charge and brought in a temp OC or adviser.Fact is Arroyo was woefuly unprepared and Lovie hung him out to dry.
August 9th, 2016 at 4:49 pm
7 wins is realistic, imo and would be better than Lovie ever did. It would be anticlimactic, but at least it would be an improvement. I just hope 7 wins is enough to not be last in the South if that is our record.
August 9th, 2016 at 5:02 pm
@bob….what nfl quality oc would volunteer to be a part time oc?…..lovie had no choice but to promote within….better question is, why didn’t licht step up and hire someone?….GO BUCS!!!!
August 9th, 2016 at 5:05 pm
The first 5 games before the bye are critical. ..3-2 would be good, 2-3 would be acceptable …1-4 would be unfortunately, wait till next year…
August 9th, 2016 at 8:44 pm
D-Rome , does your love go beyond football?
August 9th, 2016 at 10:41 pm
Whatever makes you guys feel good say it. But any losing season is a bad season..Period. You can kid yourselves about this..Building something special crap..all you like. The Bucs hired Koetter and Smith to win. They did not hire them to produce 1-7 wins and say, that’s OK. If the last coach won 6 last yr, then Koetter must win more. Its that’s simple. No excuses like, the schedules tough. No sh..? 30 other teams have tough schedules also. Winners win and Losers..Lose! Koetter get his 2 yr measuring stick just like Schiano and Lovie had. And Just..us..for all!!
August 9th, 2016 at 11:58 pm
Ugh. Lovie made alot of mistakes. 813 if one is to believe the way things were ran here under Lovie, Smith Grimes and possibly Ayers wouldn’t be here in the first place, as he ran fre agency and Licht ran the draft. IDK how accurate that is but it seems to be the concensus here.
My biggest fault with Lovie was the fact that the defense regressed last year, after he took over playcalling duties. A secondary led by Verner and Banks should not be out of place so often. Or how about the Titans game? Was the team that unprepared? I can’t believe one penalty led to…that, as LVD claims. And if it does, someone has to do something, be it your leader(s) or a coach. Byt no. Nothing could stop the snowball effect caused by Mariota, which makes the whole thing that much worse.
Now what did Lovie get right? Hiring Koetter was certainly a wise move. But unless we really know the ins and outs of who did what between Lovie and Licht, I can’t say. I do find it funny how everything that worked is tagged as a Licht move and everything else is tagged as a Lovie move. Pretty convenient huh? All I can do is judge what I can see in front of me, and in Lovies case most of it was pretty bad.
Oh yeah, and to claim Schiano is a better coach than Lovie, sure Schiano went 11-21 to Lovies 8-24, but guess what? Lovie could have never coached again after 2012 and Schiano would still be a peon comparatively. Lovie is held in very high regard around the league, by people who spend their entire life around the game. Schiano is just some chump who rushed the kneel down and couldn’t figure out how to use Darelle Revis.
August 10th, 2016 at 12:19 am
Idk, I wouldn’t be grossly upet if Koetter only wins 7 or 8 games this year. But next year is a different story. Next year it’s playoffs or bust for sure. I am firmly on the Loser Lovie hate wagon, but Dirk also needs to prove himself in the next 2 years.
August 10th, 2016 at 6:43 am
@BucBoi813
believe Chan gailey was available at the time for instance. advisors also get paid. Butch davis served
in an advisory role with Schiano.IT was Lovie’s job to hire coaches ,not Licht’s.
August 10th, 2016 at 10:26 am
@largo….ayers,grimes and smith would still be here because of the lack of talent….the concensus here is wrong regarding who ran what….
@bob….licht hired dirk didn’t he….
….GO BUCS!!!!