Missing A Third
June 23rd, 2016
Who is the third?
We have all heard of offensive “triplets,” the phrase seemingly created by former Cowboys coach Jimmy Johnson representing the three-most talented players of an offense’s most critical positions: quarterback, running back and wide receiver.
Well, spreadsheeters Bill Barnwell of BSPN took out his slide rule and decided to pick triplets for each NFL defense. He has the Bucs ranked at No. 19, in the lower half of the NFL, basically because he feels Tampa Bay has but two stud defenders. Therefore, the Bucs don’t have a defensive set of triplets.
Few teams in the league can sport a one-two punch as good as McCoy and David, who combine to give the Bucs a devastating interior penetrator and one of the league’s rangiest linebackers. The only knock on those two: McCoy has struggled with injuries for most of his career, missing chunks of his first two seasons before throwing in four more absences over the past two years. The problem is that the Bucs have to line up nine other guys on defense, and that hasn’t gone well. Tampa has repeatedly shopped in free agency to fill those holes and almost immediately regretted its decision to do so. This year, the team is taking shots to improve longstanding holes at cornerback (Grimes) and defensive end (Robert Ayers), with the Bucs hoping that investments in players on the wrong side of 30 will manage to keep their defense from making major mistakes.
The Bucs would have had a dangerous set of triplets but, because of some insane reason, future Hall of Fame stud Darrelle Revis was forced to walk out the door.
It is unclear why exactly the Bucs let go of Revis. Depending who you talk to, it was either his salary, the team thought he was damaged goods, or a certain chieftain of a coach wasn’t convinced Revis could play in his convoluted system. Joe isn’t sure which to believe, as it may be a combination of all three. But any way you stack it up, it was a mistake of biblical proportions if not pure idiocy, maybe the worst move in franchise history since letting Doug Williams run off to the USFL.
Imagine this team having both Michael Bennett, who the Bucs let walk away for no good reason, and Revis? Well, that means the team likely wouldn’t have gotten America’s Quarterback, Pro Bowler Jameis Winston.
June 23rd, 2016 at 7:47 am
I will take Jameis and some additional years of suffering over Bennett/Revis and one-and-out wild card playoffs (at best).
But, IMO, letting go of Revis was pure ego on the part of coach-my-scheme. I think Lovie believed “His” D system did not need a $16M cornerback and future HOFer. Yeah, who needs great players like that when you have genius at HC?
June 23rd, 2016 at 7:56 am
Sometimes things happen, no rhythm, no reason, no answer to the question why. I too say Doug Williams was the worst miscue in Buc History…….Noah Spence will be our third guy, I’m hoping for one sack per game from this guy!
June 23rd, 2016 at 8:03 am
One could argue that trading a first round pick for a player, albeit a future Hall of famer, coming off of an ACL may have been the dumbest move. But lets look forward. The pain of those decisions are behind us. The Bucs, with a few breaks, and we are due, are poised to really be a fun team to watch. Think if things break our way:
Jameis continues to develop, pushing 5000 yards with over 60% completion
Hargreaves turns out to be Ronde Barber 2.0
Mike Evans grows and becomes a true number one, Vjax stays healthy and Adam Humphries or Kenny Bell own the slot
Kwon keeps developing becoming a Hardy type middle guy to go with a healthy LVD
McCoy has a run of healthy seasons because he can’t be hammered with the emergence of Noah Spence.
Aguayo proves all of the doubters wrong and is in year one of a twenty year nfl career
Our offensive line is stable and dominant for 5 seasons as Donavan Smith anchors the left side and the run game is terrifying as the Doug Martin and Charles Sims combine for over 2,000 yards following Sweezy and Marpet as they pancake lineman
ASJ feels the heat and realizes this NFL thing is pretty cool as Dirk Koetter reminds him he could be the next Tony Gonzalez.
Yes these are ifs and butts that need to break the Bucs way, but if any franchise is due for a run of good fortune, it is the Bucs. I am ready. Fire the cannons!
June 23rd, 2016 at 8:07 am
The worst mistake in team history was the hiring of the worst head coach in team history the incompetent lovie smith… the arrogance in which lovie displayed after each embarrassing loss and the fact his sorry arse never once took responsibility for anything overshadowed the loss of any player. The hiring of lovie made no sense it was strictly a stunt to please the losers who live in the past.
Banks is going to have a breakout year and emerge as a real playmaker in secondary
June 23rd, 2016 at 8:16 am
Drafting Bo Jackson #1 overall makes the top of my list….
I think coming at 19 on the top 3 list is fine as long as we come in 1st with the top 11.
Depth and good players at every position is key…..I like our additions this year…one more year of that should do the trick.
June 23rd, 2016 at 8:19 am
The third musketeer could possibly be either Kwon or Noah Spence imo. Let’s hope it’s Spence because that means we finally found a double digit sack artist after years and years of suffering watching guys like Daquan Busters and Gaines Adams. (R.I.P). I think he finally ends the drought and breaks the curse. Maybe not this year but certainly here soon. Maybe even next season.
June 23rd, 2016 at 8:54 am
I truly believe our secondary isn’t as bad as they looked last year. Pros ALWAYS out of position has to come back to coaching. Joe did you see the story today about Lovies attention to detail? Banned scooters
June 23rd, 2016 at 9:10 am
Who needs a Revis when you can have a Jennings and Jenkins to fit your “scheme”?
Tmax…I’ll never forget Lovie smugly mocking Schiano’s 4-12 all offseason when he was hired only to go out and produce only 2 wins after slashing the roster by nearly 50%. It was the arrogance of how he said it that has always bothered me. He said it more than once too. This was not some random quote. Then again there was lots of things he said that pissed me off. “I didn’t want to put more points on the board.” WHAT? He should have been fired right then and there for that comment.
June 23rd, 2016 at 9:16 am
TBBF….I wasn’t a Bucs fan quite yet, but I’d have to rank the Bo Jackson draft as the worst move in Bucs history.
Doug may have been good, but he was riding the pine in Washington, then came off the bench to help steer an already good Redskins team to the SB. After that he sucked and got benched for sucking. Correct me if I’m wrong on William’s D.C. years…
June 23rd, 2016 at 9:19 am
:sigh:
This is the worst part of the football calendar. Nothing is happening but the media show must go on.
Triplets? Really?
June 23rd, 2016 at 9:24 am
A lot of dumb decisions digging through the past cobwebs, I guess that goes with the territory. Agree with Tbbf that drafting Bo Jackson after he said he wouldn’t play for the team is hard to beat as the biggest blunder.
June 23rd, 2016 at 9:28 am
Cobraboy, your sounding like Lakelandbucfan. There are no games being played, no practices to cover , no Bucs players punching taxie drivers or getting shot by their brother. What exactly would you like Joe to write about?
Triplets seems to be about as good as anything at this time of year.
June 23rd, 2016 at 9:40 am
Cobra….blame Bill Barnwell from ESPN it’s his story. Bucs Nation also did a take on what Barnwell had to say. It’s pretty much what Dreambig had to say. No OTA’s anymore. So we’ll get tidbits about kids camps, weight lifting and working out. Fillers.
June 23rd, 2016 at 9:46 am
Here’s an interesting lineup on defense…. A true “If” lineup.
DE Michael Bennett (If he hadn’t been allowed to walk)
DT Gerald McCoy
DT Roy Miller (Solid and reliable nose tackle)
DE Robert Ayers (Almost had Adrian Clayborn here)
LB Daryl Smith (Veteran leader)
LB Kwon Alexander
LB Lavonte David
CB Darrell Revis (If he had been locked up, probably would kill the cap though)
CB Aqib Talib (If he could have stayed out of trouble)
S Mark Barron (Not good in coverage. With those CB’s he wouldn’t need to be)
S Tanard Jackson (If he could put the weed down. Talented guy for sure)
June 23rd, 2016 at 9:57 am
TNEW
I like the way you think!!!
To those upset with recent topics. IT’S THE FREAKING OFF SEASON!!!
IMHO this is actually one of Joe’s strengths. In baseball it was the “hot stove” league….don’t know what you call it in football…but Joe is excellent at these “color” or “fill” stories.
And as one poster wrote…would you rather read these kind of stories or have our players making breaking newws on TMZ or Gawker.
June 23rd, 2016 at 10:22 am
BigHog…so you’re hoping that Spence has 16 sacks this season??
Wow you set the bar very high for players especially rookies. 16 sacks?
I guess the bar is set very low for HC’s though huh? Oh wait that’s only for 10 year vet HC’s. The bar gets set high for Koetter in his FIRST NFL season as a HC though.
Where’s the logic?
June 23rd, 2016 at 10:41 am
Buc1987
good luck trying to reason with that dude. your objective thinking and rationale does not fit his agenda…
June 23rd, 2016 at 10:55 am
@Buc1987:
“blah,blah,blah……… but we were 4-dash-12.
God, I hated when he said that!
Then, nobody in the media called him out for 2-14.
tickrdr
June 23rd, 2016 at 11:09 am
tickrdr….yep NOBODY called out his arrogance to failure. It was as if he never said it. I don’t blame national media, because they never pay attention anyways. The local media should have jumped all over that and brought it to light.
June 23rd, 2016 at 11:09 am
Trading for Revis in the first place was the problem. He didn’t want to be here, it was obvious.
Then letting him go after giving up a 1st rounder for him to rehab his knee, was an equally stupid move.
June 23rd, 2016 at 11:11 am
Bill Barnwell has a defensive triplets ranking also, he has the Bucs at 17. His 3 players are GMC, Lavonte David and Brett Grimes.
June 23rd, 2016 at 11:12 am
Correction I meant 19
June 23rd, 2016 at 11:29 am
The Glazers biggest mistake was hiring Lovie Smith before they hired a GM, and giving Lovie control of the team. He even interviewed and hired Jason Licht. They should have hired a GM first and let the new GM hire a Head Coach. Lovie is a good coach, but he knows NOTHING about talent. You cut Revis( 1st rounder), you cut Davin Joseph ( 1st rounder ), you trade Mark Barron ( 1st rounder), you trade Jeremy Zuttah ( 3rd rounder), you let Mason Foster ( 3rd rounder) walk, you cut Donald Penn( pro bowler) you trade Dashon Goldson ( pro bowler), you benched Johnthan Banks ( 2nd rounder). Then you bring in a bunch of Chicago Bears REJECTS, who got you fired in Chicago ( because they fit your system). And you start rejects and UDFA’s, Lovie Smith has set this franchise back for 10 years. It takes more than a QUICK FIX to repair this mess that he left behind. And on top of all this the FOOL was trying to trade Doug Martin for a 6th round draft pick, but he wasn’t getting any takers.
June 23rd, 2016 at 12:36 pm
Lakelandbuc, I hear ya on that conga line of really good players we let go because of that egomaniac. It just makes me sick to think about it.
As for last year’s defensive scheme, it looked like the federal government on acid. I’m pretty sure that Banks and Verner will be much better this year just because of better coaching. In fact, the whole team will be better without all the apparent ambiguity Smith injected into his scheme.
I’m hoping VH3 will be part of our triplet.
June 23rd, 2016 at 1:29 pm
LakeLandBuc…nuff said.
Thee end.
June 23rd, 2016 at 2:00 pm
LakeLandBuc Says:
June 23rd, 2016 at 11:29 am
At the time, I thought it was the wrong approach, and in general I think coach before GM is a terrible idea. However, in this case, we ended up with a GM who I think will prove to be the best GM the organization has ever had, in addition to the fact that I wouldn’t want the Glazers to ever be in control of a GM search – they’re incompetent.
June 23rd, 2016 at 2:04 pm
Not worried about our 3 right now… I see us with 5+ star for the next few years: McCoy, Spence, David, Alexander, and Hargreaves. That’s solid. Now we just need to get a big-time safety (is Ryan Smith that guy, eventually?) and we should have the personnel to be a scary defense. I still see a defense-focused draft in 2017 though.
June 23rd, 2016 at 3:09 pm
LakeLand:
Can’t rag on Lovie for cutting loose Davin Joseph. He was on his last legs. Think he may have played a handful more games before he retired. Great, great guy though. Really a good dude.
June 23rd, 2016 at 3:34 pm
Calling Lovie Smith the worst move is a joke. He built the entire front office from scratch. The same front office that has built the team that some more optimistic are predicting championships for. Am I the only one who sees a flaw in that equation? I am quite certain that decisions made from the front office directly lead to winning/losing.
While Smith was very bad on the sidelines try not to pretend like he was hiring and handed a clipboard and only asked to coach. Fact is, he had a lot more responsibility that just coaching.
June 23rd, 2016 at 4:13 pm
@Buccaneers
To his credit he hired Licht.Think most of the front office were Licht guys
such as john Robinson.He has worked with some of the best in scouting and building teams during his career and he has to have a network in this area.
June 23rd, 2016 at 4:43 pm
Buccaneers……ssshhhhhhh! You will cause a uproar with the conservative klan/coach my scheme sheep! Never ever ever say anything good about Lovie Smith except maybe it was good he left.
June 23rd, 2016 at 5:10 pm
Buccaneers….I’m not sold on Licht yet, in 2014, I wanted Aaron Donald in the 1st and Allen Robinson in the 2nd. But Licht drafted ME and ASJ, he has a bad habit of drafting for need instead of drafting the BPA. That’s why he traded a 3rd and a 4th to move into the 2nd to draft a dam kicker. Licht has some hits in the draft, but he have misses also. His 2014-2015 drafts has 9 players still with the team and 4 players that’s not with the team. And 2 of those 9 are ( on the bust bubble) Kenny Bell and ASJ. You add that with the free agents busts, and you won’t have much. Anthony Collins, EDS, Michael Johnson, George Johnson, Bruce Carter, Brandon Myers, Mike Jenkins. Jason Licht is a long way from winning GM of the year. Matter of fact, his seat is hotter than a hot butter biscuit.
June 23rd, 2016 at 5:30 pm
Bob, yes hiring Licht looks like a success. Hopefully the team can put further belief to that claim in the future. I see more to it then that though.
-I won’t claim to know exactly how many member make up an entire front office but I think it’s safe to say that it’s more then just Jon Robinson and Licht. I would assume it took a lot of work to figure out who to keep, who was already here, and who to replace.
-Hiring Dirk. Dirk is beloved here and the fact is that Lovie had the power to veto/hire whomever he wished. Fans may give Licht all the credit but that is simply innacurate.
-Having a plan on how to build the team. Of course what had been built under Lovie didn’t produce wins but, personally, I like our current foundation. And a lot of other fans must also. That’s why thy are calling for championships……………..there are so many horrible moves that could have stunted this team and the biggest could have been choosing the wrong QB as their franchise hope in 2014. Say what you want about Josh McCown but a two year contract screams stop-gap. I firmly believe they built the offense while awaiting a legit franchise QB that they didn’t see in 2014.
-building a war room. Fans can give Licht 100% credit but again it’s innacurate. Lovie had the power and could have took more control then we all assume he didn’t have. So far it seems that we have had some of the better drafts in franchise history……Just as the head man will be blamed for all failure he should be given credit for success alike…….That’s how power works in any fascet of life. The man in charge is ultimately responsible for the job that is done by each person under him.
-Im sure there is much more to Lovies tenure then I have stated. These are just the clear things I can see from a fans couch eyed view.
June 23rd, 2016 at 5:35 pm
Lakeland-Thats fair enough. And your not alone in that opinion.
I would like to say that BPA fluctuates greatly with need IMO. If a player can come onto your team and make an impact from day 1 he has more value then a player who may not. To me, that make him a BP to the team because of added value to that first season.
June 23rd, 2016 at 5:43 pm
Enough with the Lovie bashing. Just look at last year, he brought in M Jenkins, T. Jennings, C. Conte, M. Wright, B. Carter, H. Melton. All guys that “know his system” and our D still sucked!!! That’s so bad it’s almost impressive. So glad he is gone!
I know all those guys didn’t just come last year.
June 23rd, 2016 at 5:53 pm
Buccaneers… Vernon Hargreaves is a good CB, and I believe he will be a Pro Bowl CB.. But there is NO WAY ( absolutely no way) that I pass on Laremy Tunsil.
June 23rd, 2016 at 6:02 pm
Buccaneers Says:
June 23rd, 2016 at 3:34 pm
No.
Losie had nothing to do with building the front office outside of recommending Jason Licht to the Glazers. Licht built the front office. I give Losie credit for picking Licht out of the other candidates. After that, he gets no credit.
June 23rd, 2016 at 6:47 pm
In the good versus bad Lovie arm wrestling lingering debate the good Lovie is a hairs width from being pinned to the table. He did seem quite clueless.
June 23rd, 2016 at 7:50 pm
@Buc1987:LOGIC; Maybe I could have picked VH3 with the hope he would have 6 picks and 2 returned for touchdowns because ” If can ball, you can ball ” With Spence being said to be the best our pass rusher, having the best D-LINE COACH in the league should only bring out the star in this guy if he wants it bad enough, Coach K is no spring chicken, he’s been around a while, and I believe is more than prepared and qualified for his promotion and he has no worries on the defensive side of the ball with M Smith being the BOSS over there, but most important Coach K was here last year, if we should and I said if we should regress I don’t think he would be back, let me be clear I think we should get a least 9 wins in Coach K’s rookie head coach season BAR SET HIGH!
June 23rd, 2016 at 8:27 pm
Salish-You are wrong. Lovie was brought in to assemble new members to run the football operations. Sure, he had to have the Glazers sign off on whichever staff was brought in or signed new contracts but the Glazers are smart enough to let football people make the football decisions.
Lovie was indeed the person in charge of football operations……that is of course if I was told lies by the radio heads on 620…… Given the choice I will choose to believe that they know more about the matter then you.
June 23rd, 2016 at 8:42 pm
Lakeland-I think the Tunsil vs Hargreaves debate highlights how a teams need could sway which player is actually BPA.
Had they drafted Tunsil he could possibly split time with Dotson or another. Also rookies at that position can have struggles trying to match up against stronger and faster NFL players………Its hardly even a debate that Hargreaves has a much better chance to become a full time starter and make a bigger impact then anybody else who can fight for his position.
Hargreaves can easily(if coming in as advertised) improve our secondary vastly from what we had……..You absolutely cannot say that Tunsil has that same chance to improve the team with the same impact, because he would be joining a pretty decent/good line.
Because VHIII can improve the team it adds value to the pick, value that Tunsil does not have. It helps make Vernon more of a BPA for our Bucs.
Just like Ezekiel Elliot, he could be a true BPA had he slipped instead of Tunsil. But what good is a BPA if they come in and add no noticable value to the team? I think BPA is blown a bit out of proportion and I also think that each teams BPA varies widely.
June 23rd, 2016 at 9:14 pm
@Buccaneers-
Well, you can just say I’m flatly wrong, but there was no indication ever given that Losie had oversight of the personnel department in any fashion once Licht was hired. I mean, who would even take that job? The definition of the GM job is to hire the front office personnel people and scouts. Maybe Losie signed off on who Licht chose to hire… maybe… but I doubt Losie had any input on those hires as Licht was far more experienced with the scouting and personnel community throughout the league. And honestly, who at 620 do you think would have a clue? Dumbig? Hahaha… not a chance. That dude can’t even think straight.
June 23rd, 2016 at 9:19 pm
@Buccaneers-
So, to summarize… Losie Smith did not “build the entire front office from scratch.” Jason Licht did. That’s his job. I don’t care if Coach MyScheme was director of football operations – he let Jason Licht do his job, and at most maybe had veto authority (which he probably never had to exercise). He gets zero credit for the front office. That’s Licht’s team.
June 23rd, 2016 at 9:29 pm
I think Lovie had quite a bit of authority. Would Licht have persued all those washed up ex-bears?
June 23rd, 2016 at 10:16 pm
Salish-Lovie was given power to run the football operations…..whether or not he personally sought out and hired each individual member or it it were Licht is not the point………I think it’s fair to assume that Licht helped with much of the building and I’m sure a lot of the scout were Lichts guys, because that is his fortey. I think it’s also safe to assume that Licht was hired because he had the pull to bring in some pieces to further help aid Lovies plan. Gotta give credit to Lovie for not only finding Licht but to also get a GM that could bring some useful pieces with him.
At the end of the day Lovie was the boss any everybody that was hired is a reflection on him……..It’s not reality to think we can pick and choose which failures and which success fall on the boss and which don’t. The boss is responsible for everything that happens under him, good or bad. You are telling me the definition of a GM(which can vary from team to team) but I don’t think I should have to tell you what the defenition of what a boss is.
And honestly bro, you don’t really believe that some of, if not all, the radio personalities don’t have insider knowledge do you?
June 23rd, 2016 at 10:23 pm
So to resummarize…..yes Lovie did indeed build the entire front office. And I’m sure he used a lot of guys based on Lichts recommendation……which was also probably a big reason why he hire Jason.
He gets a lot of credit for the assemelation of the FO. He also get a lot of the credit for only fielding a team worthy of eight wins in two years. And he got a deserved axe for it.
Now Licht is the boss…..If Dirk fails then Licht failed at hiring him, same with Mike Smith or any new coaching. Same with players too.
June 23rd, 2016 at 10:28 pm
Yeah Fred it’s a common belief and probably true that Lovie called a lot of the shots on D while Licht called most of the shot on O personnel.
Yet still when your HC has control of operations he must be accountable for everything, had Licht made bad mistakes on the offensive side of the ball it would still fall back on Lovie…….Water will always flow downhill and when you give a HC the power Lovie had he is the first guy we should want answers from.
June 23rd, 2016 at 10:59 pm
Darrelle Revis was not worth the money Joe.
June 23rd, 2016 at 11:35 pm
I did a quick search for you guys and Licht had control over the draft and Lovie controlled the final roster. Also found a story about the Glazer’s hiring Licht and it sounded like the search for the GM started at the same time as the search for the HC. Also found a story about Licht hiring the front office staff.
June 24th, 2016 at 1:13 am
I guess the Losie apologists have to find something to point to. I gave him credit for recommending Licht to the Glazers. I don’t think he had the title of director of football operations or had input in front office hires. I do believe Licht reported directly to the Glazers, as did Losie… and the Glazers expected them to work together by consensus. Again, I give Losie no credit for the front office beyond recommending Licht.