“Reaching For A Kicker Was A Little Much”
May 4th, 2016
Ex-Bucs star weighs in
A former Tampa Bay Buccaneers captain, Pro Bowler and first-round draft pick isn’t smiling about the second-round selection of kicker Roberto “El Asesino” Aguayo.
Davin Joseph has spoken out.
“I think reaching for a kicker was a little much, especially knowing that we need probably more that just one defensive end,” Joseph told The Pat and Aaron Show on WDAE-AM 620. “We need more. Even though Gerald’s great, we already know that, the guy can’t do it by himself.”
Joseph, a guard for eight seasons with Tampa Bay, was all in favor of drafting defensive end Noah Spence in the second round. “But we need numbers, too,” he said. “We need guys who can really rip an edge, and I don’t know that we have that.”
Joe likes the selection of Aguayo and the associated moves to get him. Points matter. Just don’t miss, son. Simple as that.
May 4th, 2016 at 12:36 pm
The biggest thing I don’t like about the pick is it puts extra pressure on a position that is already jam packed with pressure. This poor kid is going to be criticized with each and every miss. I hope he has a ton of confidence, because that kind of thing can really get in the head of a kicker. It seems that kicking is every bit of a mental thing as a physical one, so let’s all hope he’s got the onions to handle the inevitable criticism.
May 4th, 2016 at 12:47 pm
Agreed. Grammatica (sp?) was great for us until he missed an important kick, (can’t remember which one, I’m old) and it was downhill from there. Here’s hoping Aguayo stays productive for us for 10+ years. BTW I like that Joseph still referred to the Bucs as we, even though he doesn’t play for them anymore, even if he was criticizing the move.
May 4th, 2016 at 12:56 pm
Thank God another post to dissect this
May 4th, 2016 at 12:57 pm
When I think “expert opinions” I always think “AM Radio”
May 4th, 2016 at 1:02 pm
It’s not like opinions are divine inspiration.
May 4th, 2016 at 1:14 pm
Davin Joseph is a free agent…
Sure, he’s 32, but I wonder if he has anything left in the tank?
May 4th, 2016 at 1:18 pm
The X factor that not very many people are realizing is that we have a DL coach who got production out of Ghost Johnson. Imagine what he can do with the DL we currently have. I am expecting a more consistent pass rush just by coaching and scheme alone this season. The kicker will make a positive impact and everything will be fine. The sky is not falling.
May 4th, 2016 at 1:18 pm
I’m with Joe on this one, The kid had better Kick his A….off! Joseph is right of course. Another DE would have been much better. Pressure is on Mr. Aguayo.
Batter up sir. Don’t miss or these Buc fans are gonna Bash you straight into the bay.
May 4th, 2016 at 1:20 pm
I’m not sure his field goal kicking is the only thing the Bucs are really interested in.
“I think that’s the strategy part of that kickoff rule that you’re going see every team tinker with during the preseason,’’ Bucs coach Dirk Koetter said after the Bucs traded up 15 spots to get back into the second round of the draft, where they selected Aguayo 59th overall.
“When the league put that rule in, they put that rule in thinking everybody was just going to kick it out and take the ball on the 25. But the analytics say that (by taking the ball at) the 25, there’s a 3-percent (increase) in scoring — 2 percent touchdowns, 1 percent field goals.
“So I think what you’re going to see is a lot of people experimenting in preseason. But when the season comes along I’ll bet you more teams are trying to kick it out. And the great thing is, we have a guy that can do both.
“I mean, I never thought I’d be sitting in my office watching kickoff after kickoff and Combine kickoff tape – but this guy can kick it out of the end zone pretty much when he wants to. And Florida State did a lot of mortar kicks, where they tried to pin teams inside the 20, and he was excellent at that.’’
May 4th, 2016 at 1:28 pm
Gramatica had a core muscle injury and had surgery to repair it.. Sometimes the muscles don’t repair properly. Ask C. Simms after his ruptured spleen and had to cut through his core muscles..
May 4th, 2016 at 1:36 pm
A reach? Yes it was!
May 4th, 2016 at 1:38 pm
I don’t mind the kicker pick but not for the second and a fourth round picks. I certainly can’t blame Connor for wanting to be released. No way was he going to compete and/or start.
May 4th, 2016 at 1:39 pm
@Hawaiian
Definitely my main concern. Just have to hope they put him in winnable situations at first. Much like giving a rookie QB some easy throws out of the gates to gain confidence.
If they march him out to hit a 48 yarder in the first game, it could easily get ugly fast.
May 4th, 2016 at 1:40 pm
2nd and 4th what are you smoking? Was just a 4th…
May 4th, 2016 at 1:44 pm
Smart move by Licht to snag Aguayo before Belicheat.
May 4th, 2016 at 1:50 pm
Joseph is entitled to his opinion. I am entitled to NOT agree with it.
May 4th, 2016 at 1:53 pm
If Jason Licht is as good as people claim, then the free agent DE will be enough, since we added Spence. After all…the whole free agent mess ups was Lovie’s fault…right? Jason can’t make those mistakes…
May 4th, 2016 at 1:53 pm
I always like Joseph. The injuries were unfortunate. Interesting to know he still bleeds Bucs colors even though he hasn’t been on the team for a few years.
May 4th, 2016 at 2:04 pm
Not drafting d line with such a deep draft in this drafts will come back to haunt Jason.
He really had a chance to mail down d line for years to come
Reminds me of when the rays passed on posey to draft beckAm
May 4th, 2016 at 2:13 pm
Lunchbox,
I believe what you’re referring to was the Carolina game where he had I believe 3 kicks blocked. That game killed his confidence, albeit not misses per se.
May 4th, 2016 at 2:13 pm
BuccaneerBonzai Says:
May 4th, 2016 at 1:53 pm
“If Jason Licht is as good as people claim, then the free agent DE will be enough, since we added Spence. After all…the whole free agent mess ups was Lovie’s fault…right? Jason can’t make those mistakes…”
I concur….except without the sarcasm.
May 4th, 2016 at 2:31 pm
^HA
May 4th, 2016 at 2:34 pm
Bottom line is the draft is hit or miss. Could Aguayo become a HOF’er? Maybe. Could he be a bust? Maybe. Nobody will know until the live bullets start flying. You can’t try and keep tally on guys’ careers you could’ve drafted. It goes both ways. I’m sure there are plenty of teams kicking themselves for passing over Sapp, Brooks, Barber, Alstott, Lavonte, Doug and Kwon.
May 4th, 2016 at 2:37 pm
RO
We used our second to pick him right? What the hell are you smoking!!
May 4th, 2016 at 2:38 pm
I would agree that there is extra pressure on him, if I didn’t know this kid’s story. He’s the first person to go to college in his family and they are looking up to him to do great things. He has had pressure on him since day 1 at FSU because of history. This is what motivates him to greatness, the pressure.
I think this kid will be able to handle any pressure and that is half the battle in this league.
May 4th, 2016 at 2:41 pm
“Smart move by Licht to snag Aguayo before Belicheat”
Why would New England draft Aguayo?
When arguably they have the best kicker in the league; in Stephen Gostkowski.
May 4th, 2016 at 2:43 pm
RO
You’re right. Never mind, I forgot about our second was on Spence and that we had moved into that round. I guess what I’m smoking is better than I thought.
May 4th, 2016 at 2:44 pm
What I want to know is why aren’t we talking to Dwight Freeney? He led Arizona with 8 sacks last year better than anyone on our team also. In a limited roll he did all of and he would be cost friendly. Not to mention a great mentor for young Spence. Adding another veteran DE will make this Aguayo pick a little bit easier to deal with. But Like Mr Joseph said we NEED way more than just 1 rusher more than 1 true edge guys which we have none. I don’t care how good Jaye Hayes is he’s not the Wizard of OZ either. Clinton Mc. Spence Gholston they have pretty much hit their ceiling and still couldn’t come close to matching Freeney’s sack numbers last year. Hell all three of them put together couldn’t match Dwight’s production last year.
May 4th, 2016 at 2:54 pm
However we got into the second, we used a second on a kicker……
Yeah we drafted automatica in the 3rd round. But can anyone honestly compare the bucs of 1999 to the current team?
Needs wise?
May 4th, 2016 at 2:57 pm
Speaking for Pablo
“Pablo loves this pick…..Pablo thinks this pick was much better than Yonny futbol…..Pablo loves him some Hason & Hamus….Pablo loves the Hoes too.”
May 4th, 2016 at 3:16 pm
Speaking for Pablo
“Pablo still loves Hoseph even though Pablo disagrees with him”
May 4th, 2016 at 3:33 pm
We still crying about taking the best college kicker of all time? smh
May 4th, 2016 at 3:38 pm
lol Couch
May 4th, 2016 at 3:46 pm
@Couch Fan
Exactly. Thank you!!!
May 4th, 2016 at 3:48 pm
A reach would have been taking a kicker with our designated 2nd pick i.e Berto instead of Spawn. Taking an All American kicker with your 3rd pick after wheeling and dealing your way back into the 2nd round isn’t hardly a reach. It’s more like “savy”.
May 4th, 2016 at 3:50 pm
Buccaneer Browneye still flip/belly flopping about Licht?! Best draft ever before they ever see the field yet he’s also the worst GM ever? Very curious….
May 4th, 2016 at 3:51 pm
I liked the pick better until I looked up the stats and realized Barth was the 13th most accurate kicker… in NFL history. Not last year, in the history of the NFL. Bryant is the 11th most accurate kicker in NFL history. The kid is going to have to be a very very top of the hill kicker to justify the cost, meaning he’ll need to make around 87% of all field goal attempts and never miss an extra point. BUT, it’s worth it if he does it. Also the Bucs clearly lost at least (least being the key word) one game last year because of the kicking – and if Lovie goes 7-9 I don’t think he’s fired. Dirk knows that every win counts and Aguayo will win a lot more games in his career than will a 2nd round OG.
May 4th, 2016 at 3:57 pm
Too many back seat drivers here. Look, Roberto Auguayo is a Buccaneer weather you like it or not. Give it up. The Buc staff knew what they were doing because they wanted this kid badly. He is going to help this team, I’m sure!
May 4th, 2016 at 4:00 pm
The fact that he kept saying “we” shows he never really wanted to leave tampa. I think he would be a great locker room and veteran presence. Sign him cheap licht I always liked DJ. MAYBE he will actually revive his career with real coaching. Something he never had here or since he left.
May 4th, 2016 at 4:01 pm
Buccaneer Browneye ??
Lmao…sorry Bonzai. It is kinda funny.
May 4th, 2016 at 4:07 pm
Pablo loves the Hoes too.”
AMEN HERMANO PREACH-O! Oh wait you meant the Joes? Nevermind then carry on.
May 4th, 2016 at 4:22 pm
if he’s the generational player he is then its a great pick. but if not, it really wouldnt have hurt to have another de. pass rush is the most important thing besides a qb to me. every team thats any good has a pass rush, and we havent had one for like ten years at least lol
May 4th, 2016 at 4:26 pm
I completely agree with rayjay1122… With all the additions via free agency and the draft, the biggest improvement might just be the coaches… I believe they will maximize what we already had on the roster, plus mix in the additions… Whoo, watch out!
May 4th, 2016 at 4:27 pm
That being said, sick of being excited every off season just to get nut kicked all season long, but I have a gut feeling that this Bucs team is finally being built the right way (thank you Licht)… So there’s a quiet confidence starting to bubble up inside me that says the Tampa Bay Buccaneers are going to be a f#cking beast in the NFL for years to come! Go Bucs!
May 4th, 2016 at 4:35 pm
Dudes and dudette once you realize this draft was nothing more than to strengthen our pass rush and special teams, which were atrocious last season, it will make sense to you.
Kicker
Punter
K Returner
P Returner
Gunners
If not we would have seen DT, DE, WR, OL. Instead what we got was 2 rushers and a bunch of special teamers. MAYBE Vitale cracks the starting lineup or maybe he gets traded to New England before week 4.
Other than the blocked punt vs Chicago I don’t think we generate any TDs from special teams not to mention all the missed FGs. Some say ST is a critical part of a championship run and I tend to agree.
May 4th, 2016 at 4:45 pm
It would be stupid to judge the kid on 1 bad kick here or there. You can’t expect anyone to be perfect. He should be judged on his overall performance. Percentage of kicks made. It would be wrong to tear the kid a new one once he misses a kick. How much you wanna bet if he ends up being that good someone makes a movie about it.
May 4th, 2016 at 4:52 pm
Who’s Davin Joseph, is he still in football at all and he never did anything with the Bucs except making the pro bowl.
May 4th, 2016 at 4:58 pm
Destinjohnny Says
“Not drafting d line with such a deep draft in this drafts will come back to haunt Jason.”
Um…he DID draft dline.
May 4th, 2016 at 4:59 pm
Imho…a “generational ” caliber Kicker like Aguayo is no where near as risky as taking a player at any other positions hoping they develop into a solid player…look at the countless players that we’ve taken in the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th round over the years that flopped…
When we drafted the Kicker I was shocked like everyone else but the bottom line is defense and the kicking game cost us a playoff appearance last season so I understood the move…people need to relax…Jason Licht got every player on his mock draft board and until he proves otherwise I trust his judgement….
May 4th, 2016 at 5:00 pm
LUVMYBUCS Says
“Why would New England draft Aguayo?
When arguably they have the best kicker in the league; in Stephen Gostkowski.”
You forget how Bill likes to trade players at the right moment. Gostkowski is 32 and has trade value. Every year he sets up to trade a player and acquire picks. He’s probably get a 3rd rounder for him if they had gotten Aguayo.
May 4th, 2016 at 5:00 pm
I’m curios to know the D linemen he speaks of…
May 4th, 2016 at 5:07 pm
JonBuc Says
“Buccaneer Browneye still flip/belly flopping about Licht?! Best draft ever before they ever see the field yet he’s also the worst GM ever? Very curious…”
Oh, I’m a fan of Jason Licht’s drafts. No flip flopping there. But I’m not going to pretend he is good in free agency when he clearly is not. I was actually sticking up for Lovie.
Of course, I don’t expect that to matter to you. You are a Lovie hater. You are one of the people who claims Lovie had “full power”, and yet give him no credit for the two drafts.
All I’ve ever said was that Lovie was not fully to blame for the bad free agencies. Jason Licht should have been blamed for them as much as Lovie. You know…that little thing called accountability.
If Lovie was to blame for the free agency, then why was this one so bad? Can’t answer that, can you? Or are you going to blame Lovie again, even though he’s not here.
However…because that doesn’t suit your agenda, I don’t expect you to agree.
I give Licht props for drafting. But he SUCKS in free agency, contract negotiations and trade negotiations. Prove me wrong.
I’ll wait.
May 4th, 2016 at 5:08 pm
So there are posters here that believe that the Patriots were set up to spend a 2nd round pick on a kicker when they have arguably the best kicker in football. Then trade said kicker for a premium pick? What team was going to trade a 3rd for a 32 year old kicker making 4.6 million a year in Gostkowski?
Either Bill Belichick, the potential team trading with him, or the posters on this board are crazier than I thought. I tend to believe it’s the latter.
May 4th, 2016 at 5:10 pm
@DB55
Jason Licht said no one they drafted will be a returner. Said it during one of his pressers.
May 4th, 2016 at 5:12 pm
Barth and Bryant all took time to become that good. You are looking at their full careers and making that claim.
How about you give our new kicker the same consideration? Instead of judging him before he even plays in the NFL?
May 4th, 2016 at 5:13 pm
The truth is, no one really knows what the Pats planned. Bill will never say. So agreeing or disagreeing doesn’t make any sense.
May 4th, 2016 at 5:15 pm
Since Mike Nugent was the last kicker taken in the 2nd round I was interested in comparing the scouting reports on Nugent at the time to see what they thought. Well honestly the scouting report on Nugent isn’t all that impressive and most even include he was still developing his kick swing. He was a good college kicker, the best of the year when he came out, but honestly he isn’t all that impressive as a kicker. He got extra points because he was a good athelete, a high school QB, ran a 4.7 40, could benchpress a lot for a kicker, but on the kicking part he had a good, but not elite leg, and was getting better every year but still had yet to figure it all out. Compared to Nugent the Bucs are, based on scouting reports, getting a steal if Mike was a 2nd rounder (and much higher in the 2nd round at that). Aguayo scouting report and accolades are much more impressive, they seem to indicate a completely polished kicker that can make big kicks when they matter most. Aguayo’s leg isn’t considered top tier, but it’s interesting that he says at FSU they wanted not to boom it through the endzone, to try to drop his kickoffs into the corners around the 5 yard line, so perhaps he does have a better leg than people think. The 40+ yard accuracy is fine, but I wonder if you adjust that for NFL hashmarks if his numbers are any better, like was he missing some of those kicks from long range at FSU that he’d never be kicking in the NFL because the hashmarks aren’t as wide?
I was completely sold on the fact Aguayo would be taken by the Bucs in the 3rd round with their pick, but using the extra 4th they got to insure that is OK with me. The Pats love to move around the board and I think a lot of people knew the Bucs would take him in the 3rd and if they wanted him the Pats pick was the place to be grab him. I personally have little doubt he would have gone before the Bucs picked had they not moved, and the move they made in the 1st round gave them the luxury of making sure they got their guy (plus they saved $1.5mil by moving back 2 slots).
May 4th, 2016 at 5:15 pm
Bonzai
Time will tell mi amigo time will tell. Have you seen Vernon run with the ball?
May 4th, 2016 at 5:19 pm
You have to excuse BuccaneerBonzai, he is the biggest lovie apologist!!!! If lovie spilt his orange juice, BucBonzai would blame Tropicana!!!!!
Did NFL GM Licht panic and over payed for the Kicker! yes, But Most of us on here have over payed for something. Whether it be a House or car, it does not matter. But the trick is that now that you have it, enjoy it!!!! Do not think that you could have a car and a motorcycle for what you payed for the car!!!!!
May 4th, 2016 at 5:25 pm
Arguayo is worth the 74th pic. He is a once in a decade prospect. Well done by Jason Licht and co.
May 4th, 2016 at 5:31 pm
I wonder how all of you know that this kicker would not have gone in the 3rd round. Kickers do not all get taken in the 6th and 7th round.
Gramatica went in the 3rd round and that is what we gave up plus an extra 4th rounder.
We need a kicker period… A lot of points made by the kicker… 2 or 3 games lost last year that could have been won with a good kicker.
One of the BEST kickers in NCAA history goes in the 2nd round …. WHAT IS THE BIG deal…
May 4th, 2016 at 5:35 pm
People on this site keep saying this was such a deep draft for DLine talent. I would argue that this was a deep draft of the same level mediocre DLine talent. Meaning that there was very little with respect to true standout talent but a lot of players that could help with depth.
We don’t need anymore depth DLine players. We need an injection of monster talent. Spence may be that kind of talent but huge fall off after him.
May 4th, 2016 at 5:48 pm
Speaking for Pablo
“Pablo would like to clear this up. Pablo had an amigo that payed way too much for a GTO……Pablo got a great deal on a Pinto…..Pablo teased his amigo about how much he spent on the GTO……Pablo’s amigo said…..”Would you like to race?”
May 4th, 2016 at 5:56 pm
Jaboo they parakeets, only thing necessary is for them to hear something and they repeat because they heard it on T.V. Deep Dline draft my @$$.
May 4th, 2016 at 5:59 pm
We made out d@$! good in an over all lack-luster draft.
May 4th, 2016 at 6:03 pm
Pablo…my money’s on the Pinto.
May 4th, 2016 at 6:09 pm
Depends how you look at it. We took Aguayo in second round but all we really did was burn the extra 4th Rd pick we got for free to use our 3rd round pick early. If he was going to be out 3rd Rd pick anyway,we just made sure we got our man. If your problem is taking a kicker in 3rd Rd, then I guess that is a valid gripe but he was the most accurate kicker in college football and barring a disaster, could be highest scorer on team after 1rst contract is up.
May 4th, 2016 at 6:10 pm
I hope channing ward makes the team hell be a stud passrusher with us or on another team
May 4th, 2016 at 6:31 pm
Ol’ Buccaneer Browneye…not here to prove you right or wrong. I actually love your work. The tough talk, claiming best selling novelist, from a faux coma to running wind sprints in the same 24 hour period…it’s endless entertainment! You’re like the pencil-neck yelling the loudest at an MMA fight. Please NEVER change. Any any rate…I don’t hate Lovie…but boy did he stink up the joint/One Buc Place. And I don’t thnk Licht can do no wrong. I’m not an all or nothing fella like yourself. I dont have all the answers…not even close….but I sure like the Bucs and enjoy your lil’ geek show.
May 4th, 2016 at 6:46 pm
@ buc bozaoi
How can you say that licht had a bad free agency this year when the bucs have not even played a game yet? You sound like the dra
May 4th, 2016 at 6:48 pm
You sound like the draft arm chair gms. Atleast let them play one game before you judge free agency.
May 4th, 2016 at 7:12 pm
Award Winning ESPN Senior Sportswriter John Clayton says that the Bucs had his 2nd favorite draft. And NFL.com Chad Reuter says that the Bucs has the 3RD best UDFA class. Me personally I love our draft, UDFA class, free agents, tryout players and new coaches. GO BUCS
May 4th, 2016 at 7:40 pm
Adam Clayton just keepin it “G” none bias. From a distance he saying “Licht in co. kickin some @$$ over there in lil ole Tampa”. And deciding to let it be known now before its a common theme across the league here shortly. Clearly not one of the ones I feel have a level of disdain for us joe. And thanks for the spot light, nothing quite like free publicity.
May 4th, 2016 at 7:42 pm
My bad I don’t know why Adam in my mind. Must be a correlation to that former NE kicker and this article.
May 4th, 2016 at 7:44 pm
And another thing that Ray Lewis joke from a week or so back was so lame.
May 4th, 2016 at 7:48 pm
A wr dt and s would have been better picks to Savin. Not just de.
May 4th, 2016 at 8:01 pm
Evening Fellas. Sup Nole. I see Lakeland is in the house too.
May 4th, 2016 at 8:19 pm
“Nole on Sat.-Bucc on Sun. Says:
May 4th, 2016 at 7:40 pm
Adam Clayton just keepin it “G” none bias”
U2’s bassist is a Bucs fan? Who knew???
May 4th, 2016 at 9:05 pm
SB with Jameis, i’m here keeping it 100.
May 4th, 2016 at 9:08 pm
LWD…lol. You guys are crazy.
Some dude on NFL Network picked Noah Spence to win Def ROY.
No I don’t remember which dude. They’re all talking heads to me anyways, ex- players or not. Wanna say that Solomon dude I could be wrong.
It’s just odd for someone to throw Noah Spence’s name out there without having played a down yet. As well as losing our former defensive guru head coach. ROY.
May 4th, 2016 at 10:32 pm
We were 14th in the league in sacks running the most antiquated scheme in the NFL. We’ll be in the top 10 in sacks this year would be my guess. There’s more to play g winning defense than just sacks.
Take a ways win football games, and running a scheme that makes it easier to disguise coverages will certainly help. Running schemes that put your best players in position to make plays on the ball will certainly help. Not playing chicken sh!t prevent defense will most certainly help. Picking a kicker in the bottom of the 2nd round will not affect the defense, in fact it will probably help if we can push leads from one score to two.
We drafted what should be a money kicker for the future, can we move on please? Noah Spence should be thanking the stars that they picked a kicker or all the talk would be about his past mistakes. Media needs something to bitch about at all times.
May 4th, 2016 at 10:48 pm
I wonder what Kenyatta Walker thinks of the pick, somebody find the cube truck with the Teen Wolf mural painted on the side and see what Stylez G. White has to say, check all of the all you can eat buffets and see if Albert Haynesworth is available for a question on this subject. Who else played for the Bucs at one time or another that might give two sh!t at this point about the kicker pick.
May 5th, 2016 at 9:05 am
@got be bucs
Good point, I think a lot of ppl forget that we had a Decent amount of sacks. The most we had in a long time in fact. But the failure was more due to the scheme that this team could not run right. The CBS played 10 yards off the receivers so the short pass was there all day. I think with the additions of Ayers and Spence plus the emergence of Smith and also the young rookie we stole from the steelers (Howard) who had 5 sacks in the second half of the season basically. But the biggest addition is D-line guru Jay Hayes. He is the key to all this. He’s gonna get the most out of these players. And now we have some legit corners to go with that and we have the potential to be a very solid defense if everything goes right. I like the look of this trio on 3rd downs…
LE) SPENCE ( DT)AYERS (DT) MCCOY (RE) SMITH
That looks like a deadly combo if you ask me. That trio should provide us alot of pressures and sacks.
May 5th, 2016 at 12:56 pm
Booooo