Another Defensive End Bust
May 22nd, 2016
Shame for Atlanta GM Thomas Dimitroff
As the Bucs hope and hope and hope that second-round pick Noah Spence is the answer to the annual question at defensive end, Joe can’t ignore what’s happened in Atlanta.
Illustrating how edge rushers are a giant gamble and hard to find is the Falcons’ 2015 first-round pick, defensive end Vic Beasley, who was drafted No. 8 overall.
Beasley is a now a strongside linebacker. ProFootballTalk.com wrote all about his position change this morning.
Sure, Beasley will get to pash rush sometimes, but now he’s got “bust” written all over him. Head coach Dan Quinn’s new regime came in last year and Beasley was its first pick — and he wasn’t drafted to play linebacker in Quinn’s 4-3 defense.
History reveals a majority top-10-pick defensive ends struggle as rookies. Beasley sure did (four sacks in 16 games), and the Falcons aren’t willing to endure the growing pains.
This is another nod to why Joe doesn’t want Bucs fans seeing Spence as a savior. It’s very unlikely. No need to drop unrealistic hopes on the guy. If Spence can rotate effectively and get some production (perhaps six sacks?), then that’s a good rookie year.
If Spence is playing strongside linebacker in 2017, then Joe will know something went very wrong.
May 22nd, 2016 at 2:36 pm
By this rationale you consider Von Miller and Khalil Mack busts?
This is exactly how the Broncos use Miller when they’re not in their nickel package. You’re still stuck on this 4-3/3-4 crossover. It’s easier to run multi-schemes if your best pass rusher can function in any front and can disguise pre-snap what they’re doing.
I pray Spence is good enough to be more than a “hand in the dirt” DE.
Miller is a Hall of Fame-caliber freakish talent. Mack was drafted into very different defense than what the Falcons run. Not seeing your issue. Spence is unlikely to have the speed to be an every-down, 3-4 OL.–Joe
May 22nd, 2016 at 2:40 pm
Not a savior, just needs to be an effective end who needs to be accounted for. 6 sacks would be ok, it will be more about how much pressure he can apply to disrupt the offense, he does have a high potential though.
May 22nd, 2016 at 2:47 pm
Atlanta has had some issues scouting defensive players. If we are still comparing our team to theirs(defensively) in a few years we may be in trouble.
May 22nd, 2016 at 2:48 pm
Spawn got the next big thing written all over him. I’m big on him and VH3 because both are so technically sound. Technicians usually excell.
May 22nd, 2016 at 3:07 pm
No he doesn’t consider them bust- those two were drafted to do specifically that- a lb, Rush specialist- Beasley was drafted to play defensive end. Most players can’t do both- so either they had a change of heart or he just doesn’t fit the 4-3 scheme- which really sucks for them because that is what they play. Either way, I have to admit, I have sort of high expectations for spence, I’m hoping for a good rookie season. As long as the pressure from him is there, numbers can wait (sacks) they will get there eventually.
May 22nd, 2016 at 3:14 pm
Khalil Mack was drafted to play LB. So was Von Miller
May 22nd, 2016 at 3:20 pm
Speed is speed.
May 22nd, 2016 at 3:24 pm
Hayes will be the savior of our pass rush, not only will spence turn out to be a beast but our othsr d lineman will perform better than ever under his coaching. Bet on it!!!
May 22nd, 2016 at 3:32 pm
Of course Beasley is a bust. He is high rated DE from Clemson. It doesn’t matter who takes them, they all blow in the end. See also Shaq Lawson and his shoulder surgery in Buffalo.
May 22nd, 2016 at 3:44 pm
Vic Beasley will be a star in the NFL, he has all of the tools 6’3 245 lbs, 4.5 speed, 35 reps at combine. He destroyed Cam Newton and the Panthers last season in their upset of the Panthers. He had 4 sacks last season, but he only played 51% of the Falcons defensive plays. He will be a good SAM Linebacker for the Falcons.
May 22nd, 2016 at 4:07 pm
This is stupid. Seriously stupid. Joe is drawing conclusions about a guy after one year, calling him a bust. After one year in the NFL, the bust label should only apply to guys who couldn’t even get on the field. I have no strong opinion about Beasley, but I do have a strong opinion about drawing bogus conclusions on limited evidence. The position switch doesn’t mean crap. If he’s athletic enough to play LB and rush the passer on blitzes and lining up at end in packages, he’s still on the field. That’s called maximizing a player’s abilities, which in Beasley’s case seems to be speed and explosion. Yeah, it’s altogether possible that he could fail at this position and end up with a bust label eventually. But a bust after 1 year? Please.
May 22nd, 2016 at 4:27 pm
All clemson DE are bust plain and simple
May 22nd, 2016 at 4:29 pm
GMC had 4 sacks in his first 2 seasons in the NFL., one in his first season and 3 in his second season. People were calling him a bust, Warren Sapp had 3 sacks in his first season .JJ Watt had 5.5 sacks in his first season in the NFL. It take time to adapt to the speed of the game in the NFL.
May 22nd, 2016 at 4:31 pm
Small and fast DEs might be the rage nowadays, but historically those don’t appear to be the guys who hold up season after season. And then folks complain either because they can’t stay healthy or they have to be switched to another position like Beasley (6’2″ 246 lbs).
I’m sorry, but most of the great DEs had speed, strength, durability and SIZE. Fans can argue all day long about who the ‘greatest DEs of all time’ were, but here are the Top 10 in my book:
1 – Reggie White 6’5″ 300 lbs
2 – Deacon Jones 6’5″ 272
3 – Bruce Smith 6’4″ 265
4 – Doug Atkins 6’8″ 257
5 – Chris Doleman 6’5″ 287
6 – Howie Long 6’5″ 265
7 – Gino Marchetti 6’4″ 244
8 – Lee Roy Selmon 6’3″ 256
9 – Jared Allen 6’6″ 255
10-Julius Peppers 6’7″ 287
Average for all 10: 6’5″ 268 lbs
By the way, for us Bucs fans who loved Simeon Rice, he stood 6’5″ and weighed 268 lbs. Coincidence? I think not. Well, maybe.
May 22nd, 2016 at 4:48 pm
The guy(s) that preach patience with rookies is now calling a 2nd year player a bust.
Don’t forget Anthony Barr as well Miller and Mack. Sam in base defense and DE in sub packages (which defenses are in most of the time). You’re getting stuck in traditionalist, archaic thinking. Getting lost in the wake of these new wave of hybrid defenses.
May 22nd, 2016 at 5:02 pm
I love how people like to say this guys a bust or that guys a bust yet Gerald McCoy can basically do nothing for our team when it matters yet he is a superstar. Double standard much? Let’s worry about our own players that can’t produce to the level of their draft position.
How exactly did McCoy make four consecutive Pro Bowls? And his peers consistently put him in the NFL Network Top-100 players. It’s not because the Bucs are America’s darling team and win a lot of games. –Joe
May 22nd, 2016 at 5:50 pm
Ill bet you he plays some SLB this year.. when we we switch to a 3-4…
He can line up at end showing a 4-3 then switch to SLB on a zone blitz which switches to a 3-4 look… So he’s a bust if we do that?
May 22nd, 2016 at 6:54 pm
I’m pretty convinced that Joe just write things that are deliberately ludicrous to get people riled up and generate more clicks.
The only thing ludicrous is this comment. Joe writes about what interests Joe. “Riling up” readers doesn’t generate activity. Sorry, Internet doesn’t work that way. If Joe wanted “clicks,” then Joe would/could implement all kinds of measures not seen here daily.–Joe
May 22nd, 2016 at 6:59 pm
Ha some bore uses this article to attack one of the best DT’s in the league. What a dolt.
May 22nd, 2016 at 7:25 pm
Actually, that’s exactly how the internet works. 🙂
May 22nd, 2016 at 7:38 pm
TMZ of all things Bucs.
May 22nd, 2016 at 8:22 pm
@ Defense Rules
The thing is, those guys are few and far between these days. The players at that measurable are being turned into TE’s.
May 22nd, 2016 at 8:23 pm
It’s about getting the best 11 on the field at a given time, if they got a DE that plays the run better, yet you still keep Beasley on the field, your team is better, I’m sure there will be packages where he lines up at DE, not that I am hoping he is successful, cuz, he is in the division, but, yeah, bust is so premature
May 22nd, 2016 at 8:23 pm
So Joe gives his boy Dominik credit for drafting Baron at 7, and he was a bust for the Bucs at safety but is converted to LB and plays well for another team. But now wants to claim another player is a bust after a position change…
When it comes to personnel the Joes might want to cut back on the posts until Johhny Drunk QB gets signed
May 22nd, 2016 at 10:44 pm
I think it is way too soon to consider Vic Beasley a bust. So a rookie had only 4 sacks…big deal. Many rookie DEs do poorly their first year. That’s why it’s best to give three years to evaluate.
I would take Vic Beasley on this team in a heartbeat. I would not hand him a starting role unless he earned it. But writing him off as a bust after one year? Idiocy.
May 22nd, 2016 at 11:01 pm
You can’t call Beasley a Bust. Not after one year. Not even close. Now after a couple more years…?
May 22nd, 2016 at 11:16 pm
They are moving him from a hand in the dirt DE, to a stand up pass rush LB. Which is the same exact thing. Only 1 stands up and the other has his hand in the dirt. Both are pass rushers and take on the OT one on one. (Ideally)
This news is really no news. It’s not like he will be a conventional SAM backer. He is a “monster” type blitzing line backer.
May 22nd, 2016 at 11:38 pm
I really hope that Spence is good and I have faith that they did their work but I felt the entire time everyone was talking about him that size wise he was more OLB. Maybe he can be that guy that can fill both roles and be successful.
May 23rd, 2016 at 1:13 am
The joes are funny and the most funny all at the same time. They say Spence getting six sacks in his rookie season is a good thing. I am not disagreeing with that but Gaines Adams got six sacks his rookie year and 6.5 his second year, but yet they call him a bust …God rest his soul. Which one is it? Yes, it is entirely too early to call Beasley a bust. Lets not forget, this is the same site that said sims was a waste after his first year, the same site that said we should draft Manziel and the same site that wants to give up on bell after his first year. You can’t make this stuff up!!! lol
First, it was clear quickly that Adams was not a good football player or a complete football player, sack totals aside. And look at where he was drafted. He also came to the Bucs’ powerful defense, one that led the league and won the division in his rookie year. … Second, Joe never wrote Sims was a waste, just that it was a waste to rush him back from August ankle surgery, and his play was poor as a result. As for Johnny Football, there’s no telling what would have happened if he landed under Lovie. Also, Joe consistently was pro Teddy Bridgewater all through that draft cycle. Joe was more skeptical of other QBs that year. … Joe has never written to give up on Kenny Bell. Joe cautions fans to expect anything from him, though. —Joe
May 23rd, 2016 at 1:18 am
salish I am sure that I have not agreed with everything you have posted. We may have gotten into a spirited debate before. But I must say, your last few weeks have been spot on sir. You are on fire lately!!!
May 23rd, 2016 at 5:20 am
Tyson Jackson, Jonathan Babineaux, Ra’Shede Hageman, Vic Beasley
or
Noah Spence, Gerold McCoy, Robert Ayers, William Gholdston
May 23rd, 2016 at 8:49 am
Yes it’s unfair to label a player a “bust” after one season but looking at his tape he got dominated by tackles alot and dissapeared to often. I have the feeling he will be a bust too. It’s the “Clemson Curse” lol I think Shaq Lawson will be the one to break it tho. And it seems Vic is more suited to be a LB anyways, he’s a Lil small at DE.
May 23rd, 2016 at 1:38 pm
Lol joe. The point is you called sims things like mediocre after his first year (He was mediocre. –Joe) and you are doing the same to bell. (Wrong. Bell has yet to play or catch a preseason pass). yet you are telling fans to be patient with spence. (Of course, they should be patient with a second-round pick that the GM says isn’t ready for full-time.) Take your own advise and stop bashing these players after one year injury or not. Its stupid to do so.
Really sad to see you insist on making things up. You are now banned since you continue to harass Joe, this just being one example. Joe has no time to babysit your malicious behavior that seeks to discredit Joe. –Joe
May 23rd, 2016 at 2:34 pm
I too watched in utter disbelief when Teddy Bridgewater fell so far down in the draft. Missesota could not believe their good fortune, and pounced on him.