Lack Of Height Overblown
April 28th, 2016
Tall enough.
Already, a lot of Bucs fans are whining that new cornerback Vernon Hargreaves, listed at 5-11, is too short to play in the NFL.
You want to know how Joe responds to this? Bulls(p)it! So you are telling Joe you wouldn’t want 5-11 Darrelle Revis? That Brent Grimes stinks? Horse hockey!
Joe remembers at the NFL Scouting Combine asking Hargreaves if a lack of height might not be a good thing. He had a perfect response, “If you can ball, you can ball.”
So when Bucs AC/DC-loving general manager Jason Licht took to the podium at One Buc Palace to discuss the Hargreaves’ pick at No. 11, Licht agreed with Joe when Joe asked him if lack of height was overblown.
“Yeah, a little bit,” Licht said. “Ask Brent Grimes if a lack of height has affected his career. You can ask a lot [of corners]. You can ask Ronde Barber if a lack of height affected his career. I worked in Philly with some really, really good teams with Andy Reid and Jim Johnson, the defensive coordinator. The two corners were shorter than Vernon. One of those was Lito Sheppard.
“There have been a lot of Pro Bowl corners – a lot! – that were [Hargreave’] size. He is a thick guy so he plays big, big in the run game, especially.”
There you have it. Joe doesn’t know of too many 6-3 Pro Bowl corners. As Hargreaves said, if you can ball, you can ball.
Again, you telling Joe that Revis can’t play? Only Lovie Smith is that dumb.
April 28th, 2016 at 10:28 pm
Listed at 5-11. Listed.
I’m 6 ft there’s no way in HELL this kid 5-11.
April 28th, 2016 at 10:29 pm
Whatever helps you sleep at night. I’ll gladly eat crow if I’m wrong, but I’m calling bust on this guy
April 28th, 2016 at 10:30 pm
Dudes! Ronde is 5’9? Relax!!!!!
April 28th, 2016 at 10:31 pm
Welcome home VH3!
April 28th, 2016 at 10:31 pm
Not a bust juSt a second round talent
April 28th, 2016 at 10:34 pm
I’m with you Joe. Height has never been a deterent for CBs. Historically CBs were always shorter guys. Sure Hargreaves is short (by an inch) for even most CB shorties. But he has amazing talent and instincts.
I really really wanted a DE with this pick. But I’m VERY happy to have VH3 on the Bucs. It’s been a while since we’ve had elite level talent at the CB position. Even Rhonde wasn’t an elite talent, he was just damn good at his job. VH3 will be a top 10 CB in this league. DROY 2016!
April 28th, 2016 at 10:34 pm
Not his height with me, the dude got burned alot!
April 28th, 2016 at 10:35 pm
I could careless about his height. The fact that all the INT’s in his highlights I could have made and I’m 46 with a bum knee. He got lit up vs Amari Cooper, Kelvin Benjamin and in the bowl game vs Michigan. I see him as a nickel back nothing more. We should have taken DL, OL or Safety before CB. I so hope I’m wrong on him and he ends up a Pro Bowler. But I just don’t see it.
April 28th, 2016 at 10:36 pm
1st off he’s five 10amd a half on a good day and 2nd those other afformentioned CB’s ran 4. 4 40’s something scrubgreaves does not. 2 Joe why don’t you play some VHIII highlight reels against Kelvin Benjamin than ask Hargreaves if height matters. Yes that’s what I thought. His talent is what’s overblown.
April 28th, 2016 at 10:37 pm
Joe’s going to be fair here: Deion Sanders got beat in college, and as a pro. Didn’t mean he stunk. Corners get burned. It’s part of the game.
Plus, we have no idea what the Gators were asking him to do. Perhaps they had him playing a risky scheme, wanted him to take chances?
Lot of factors don’t show up on YouTube highlights.
The perfect corner doesn’t exist.
April 28th, 2016 at 10:37 pm
Last time bucs drafted 1st rd corner was in 2008 with Talib. Now let’s ball! GO BUCS!
April 28th, 2016 at 10:37 pm
Ronde was also drafted in the 3rd round
April 28th, 2016 at 10:37 pm
Second round talent?
Who the f is this guy? Not a single mock draft had VH3 out of the top 10. But this idiot thinks he knows better than every expert in the NFL.
April 28th, 2016 at 10:39 pm
Name one cornerback that has not got burned before.
April 28th, 2016 at 10:39 pm
They said VH3 was 5 feet 10 1/2 inches on the radio.
April 28th, 2016 at 10:42 pm
Well he can’t be worse than Jennings and Jenkins. Those two couldn’t cover short receivers.
April 28th, 2016 at 10:45 pm
You have to show me where Dieon got burnt. That’s liable.
April 28th, 2016 at 10:46 pm
Love the pick! Kid can flat out play. GO BUCS!
April 28th, 2016 at 10:46 pm
At least we got a 4th rounder for nothing
April 28th, 2016 at 10:48 pm
Don’t you worry about a thing
Every little thing is gonna be alright.
Bob Marley
April 28th, 2016 at 10:50 pm
Again with all due respect to some posters here…
All the national mocks had him at least as high as we selected him!
But ALL of those national experts knowledge pails in comparison to posters on JBF? Really?
And so you are asking us to accept your opinions against the consensus of the freaking entire NFL. You are asking us to accept your analysis ahead of Licht and Mike Smith and Koetter.
And despite the fact of all these opinions you not only wish to disagree some of you go out of your way to trash VHG. Hopefully you can forgive those of us who dismiss your opinion.
50% if these guys will make it. There are no guarantees. Would you rather have had Apple?
April 28th, 2016 at 10:50 pm
He has unteachable instincts. We are severely lacking instinctual players. All these DEs you idiots are clammoring for are terrible. VH3 is not terrible. Go watch the tape. Rhonde 2.0
April 28th, 2016 at 10:50 pm
If you can ball, you can ball. Nuff said. Plus he is a freaking Buc, let’s support him
April 28th, 2016 at 10:51 pm
Bad Pick, when receivers are 6’2 and taller, and Florida didn’t have a good Defense.
April 28th, 2016 at 10:52 pm
If he thinks he got burned in college wait till he tries to play with this pass rush.
April 28th, 2016 at 10:52 pm
Ys every gets burned from time to time. He just seems to get burned a little more than he should. Don’t just watch highlights watch full game tape. Watch his bowl game vs Michigan. Watch how often he was lit up in that game. He wasn’t lit up in that game by consensus All Americans. The QB was a 5th year senior who transferred because he lost his job.
April 28th, 2016 at 10:52 pm
I think the kid deserves a chance before everyone hates on him. Look, everyone thought Mike Evans would be great and in my opinion he is average at best. VH3 had some bad moments for sure but he could pan out for us. I just hope the rest of our draft is strong.
April 28th, 2016 at 10:53 pm
Yeah even the hookers get burned… So I say, a corner can be both a good and bad thing in this slot in the draft… JL knows however… This guy will stick it to the haters…. IE JW3!!!!
April 28th, 2016 at 10:54 pm
I find it interesting that NFL com has stories posted on every pick from 1-12 except for #11. But that’s none of my business.
April 28th, 2016 at 10:54 pm
why bring up philly from what, 20 years ago? receivers are bigger and “thicker” and faster than back then…smh even that when barber played.
April 28th, 2016 at 10:56 pm
A lot of players who lack “ideal” size become great players. I’m not saying he will be great, but technique can negate lack of elite speed and size. He wasn’t my first pick, but he’s a Buc and I’ll roll with him. If I was going to draft a corner, I’d take William Jackson. That’s just me, though. But now my favorite corner is VH3!! Go Bucs!
April 28th, 2016 at 10:56 pm
Got a feeling we are going to miss out on Spence unless we move up soon.
April 28th, 2016 at 10:56 pm
“Look, everyone thought Mike Evans would be great…”
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not everyone. especially his not taking hits that were weak and “injuries” in year 1.
April 28th, 2016 at 10:57 pm
Wow. After reading some of these posts I’m still wondering what Mayock and all those draft gurus ever saw in short, slow VHG?
I’m wondering what Licht, Smith and Koetter saw.
Apparently THEY saw something that some of YOU do not see.
Time will tell who is right. I think I’ll wait and see how he plays before deciding.
April 28th, 2016 at 10:58 pm
I have been silent as to what FSU fans would say at this time
April 28th, 2016 at 10:59 pm
Cometowin
Hopefully you’re wrong but I wouldn’t be surprised.
Of all the players that gave me a good feeling…based just on gut…Spence is it.
Again OSU fans thought he was better than Bosa.
April 28th, 2016 at 10:59 pm
Kieth, Florida didn’t have a good defense???
April 28th, 2016 at 10:59 pm
Prob the same thing they saw in brittle, coach killer, win 2 games, mariota. Just saying. Experts, lol.
April 28th, 2016 at 10:59 pm
We can call our starting CB’s the Smurfs now, so that’s cool I guess
April 28th, 2016 at 11:01 pm
Somebody here says, got a feeling we missed out on Spence? Well, I got a feeling we have missed out on the best DE’s by the time our 2nd rd pick comes around. SOS guys. Decent Offense. Still lose..48-47. A loss nonetheless.
April 28th, 2016 at 11:02 pm
And. I love me some Rhonde but he was horrible in pass coverage. Rhonde put up his numbers coming out of the Nickel package. Seahawks have the best secondary and the Broncos also and all of those guys are 5’11 and taller.
April 28th, 2016 at 11:04 pm
and Florida didn’t have a good Defense.
Guys google is your friend. Florida had a great defense last year. They were ranked 8th in the nation just ahead of Ohio State and well ahead of FSU which finished 19th.
http://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/current/team/22
Does this mean Jalen Ramsey is suspect because FSU’s defense finished 11 spots behind the Gators. Last I heard football is a TEAM sport. Ramsey is great.
April 28th, 2016 at 11:06 pm
Thank you STBF, I didn’t have the ambition to do what you did!! Gators D was awesome!
April 28th, 2016 at 11:08 pm
BTW there is an FSU player I still hope we can land.
The new rules have made kickers even more important and Aguayo has mastered that new technique of dropping a kickoff inside the five forcing a runback instead of simply bringing the ball out to the 25.
I’d be really happy to get him.
April 28th, 2016 at 11:10 pm
VH3 came to us through Muschamp and was All American in his true freshman yr.
Good Coaching would yield good things I think
April 28th, 2016 at 11:14 pm
Like I said before I really hope I’m wrong and VH3 ends up a Pro Bowler. But just because the experts say he’s great doesn’t mean he will be. I never thought Ryan Leaf was all that good, he went #2 and was a bust. So yes the guys that get paid to know don’t always know. Those of us that don’t like the pick are allowed to have our opinion just like you who do like the pick. I’m not hating on him. I hope he does great. I just think we need DT and S help more than DE and CB.
April 28th, 2016 at 11:15 pm
@spbf
that defensive ranking is for yards per game…bc is #1
use Team Passing Efficiency Defense
http://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/current/team/40
fsu 15th uf 17th
again, these stats are silly and meaningless
who are you trying to convince it was a great pick vs others?
April 28th, 2016 at 11:15 pm
We drafted the waterboy at #11. We only got a 4th rounder for a team to move up 2 spots in the 1st round. We could have asked the team to throw in another pick. Bad start to the 2016-2017!
April 28th, 2016 at 11:17 pm
I trust Licht, but i believe he farted here. This guy Cincci took , CB William Jackson; looks to be a better prospect. But what do i know?……lol
April 28th, 2016 at 11:18 pm
Keith:
“Florida didn’t have a good defense.”
– Do you watch American football dude!?? The Gators D was sick last year and VH was a big reason why. I hate uneducated football fans commenting….just stop you are embarrassing yourself.
April 28th, 2016 at 11:27 pm
Per the usual
All the Nostradamuses come out around this time of the year lolol
Labeling people when they really have no clue.
April 28th, 2016 at 11:30 pm
Joe did you just compare Hargreaves to Revis, then turn around and quote him defending himself?… Umm ya..
April 28th, 2016 at 11:32 pm
Bosa and Buckner were gone. Who is the de everyone says we should have taken instead? Give him two years when grimes leaves he will be a good cb to step in and lead our secondary. Grab spence in the second and a safety. Maybe another de or dt somewhere later and please take a wr
April 28th, 2016 at 11:55 pm
If his height is the only thing negative about him. Let’s put it like this. 6-0 tall CB is considered “good height”.
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Depending on the size of your screen that is about the inch and half that those giant 6-0 CBs have on VH3.
He has 4.45 speed, which is what you expect from a starting CB. He has great ball skills. He started at CB in the SEC as an 18 yr old freshman. Rated the best CB in high school. And rated as the best CB in College. Not sure what else you guys want from the kid.
He is also “big” for his height. He is over 200 lbs, while the giant string bean CBs drafted later in the first round are 20 lbs weaker.
April 29th, 2016 at 12:10 am
There are 3 or 4 first round talent DEs still available for the second round. We hold the 8th pick, my guess is we trade up if DEs start flying off the shelf.
Spence, Dodd, and ogbah are still available. If we land one of these 3, Licht will look like a genius. Drafting the best CB in the draft, along with one of the top pass rushers in the draft. We will be well on our way to another grand slam…. Well a 2 run dinger at the very least!
Look at it like this. Did we want to draft Lawson? Because he was the only pass rusher drafted after our pick. If you wanted rankins, I don’t blame you. But clearly DE and CB are our biggest needs of improvement. Besides VH3 is rated higher than rankins. BPA. It was really our best option, especially after 15 offensive players were drafted in the first round of a deep defensive draft. We should be set for a fun day 2 and 3 of the draft.
April 29th, 2016 at 12:51 am
Well said Trubucfan..as usual…love the visual..go VH3!!
April 29th, 2016 at 1:37 am
In many cases it is possible to overcome a height issue and I really hope this is one of those but his college play against pro-style teams with elite players, says it isn’t. His highlights reel has many impressive looking plays but looking at the gator’s schedule for the past 3 years doesn’t offer a lot of hope or inspiration. : (
April 29th, 2016 at 6:22 am
Hes Short
You can overcome that with speed
But hes slow too
Short and slow
And , if you watched the draft pick on BSPN, they showed the lil princess quitting on numerous plays- including several where he had the angle to prevent a touchdown
Did none of you see that
Slow, short ,and lazy
Just what we needed
April 29th, 2016 at 7:29 am
It’s almost half of you have just started watching football. Some of your opinions are so invalid and asinine.
Starting with the first comment of this nerd that had the audacity to say “whatever helps you sleep at night.” Yeah – damn near every great corner in the history of the game were around the same size as Hargreaves. Champ Bailey was considered a “tall” and big corner but he was 6-1 192lbs. Revis is 5-11. Please tell me the sizes of Chris harris and Bradley Roby of the super bowl champs.
Quite literally 90 percent or over of the corners are less than 6-1. You idiots LITERALLY do not know wtf you’re talking about
April 29th, 2016 at 8:59 am
VHIII earned first-team All-SEC honors all three years he played. Since a freshman year he was called on to cover the best SEC had to offer and consistently delivered!
Bosa was only one 4-3 DE worth taking in the top 15, pretty much no pro analyst had Hargreaves outside of the top 10. For those who think they know better from watching some youtube do everyone a favor and just chill. This kid can ball.
Props to Licht for getting our guy and a 4th rnd pick, savy af.
April 29th, 2016 at 9:11 am
HA! Capt. Tim Says he is lazy because they showed TWO videos of him not pursuing the play. You can get that footage on any player at any level.
Didn’t know 4.50 was so slow… Maybe we should have picked Eli Apple who had tons of penalties, terrible instincts, and sucks in run support. Buuutttt Apple is taller and ran a tenth of a second faster so he has to be worth it, right?
Listen numbnuts do your research Mike Smith runs a zone heavy defense, something VHIII should thrive in.
April 29th, 2016 at 9:14 am
LOL….COME ON….what happened to, “IN LICHT WE TRUST”….GREAT PICK…GO BUCS!!!
April 29th, 2016 at 9:52 am
Chris Harris – 5’10”
Revis – 5’11”
Vontae Davis – 5’11”
Joe Haden – 5’11”
Tyrann Mathieu – 5’9″
Grimes – 5’10”
People need to stop fussing about height. 1-2 inches won’t make much difference… Julio Jones (etc.) is going to out jump any CB in the league, jump balls will happen. As long as he can jam a guy up in press coverage and make some tackles/interceptions I’m good. All indications are he was the 2nd best DB (possibly the most “nfl ready” cb) in the draft…can’t complain too much about that @9 or 11.
April 29th, 2016 at 10:33 am
5 10 1/5 but who’s counting