“Go Ahead And Turn In The Card”
April 15th, 2016
Respected former NFL scout thinks CB Vernon Hargreaves is all but a lock to the Bucs.
No, Joe is not fond of mock drafts. To Joe, they are little more than parlor games with little research. Wake Joe when Mike Mayock unveils his.
That written, one of the draftniks (if you want to call this guy that) Joe respects a great deal is Daniel Jeremiah of NFL Network. A former scout for Ozzie Newsome and the Crows, Joe has seen Jeremiah work general managers for information on players and knows he is tight with several. Many current general managers were scouts pounding the pavement when Jeremiah served time. It’s sort of a bond of brothers.
So Wednesday, when the NFL Network dedicated most of its morning programming to focus on the NFC South, the topic of the Bucs and the first round of the draft came up.
Note this was Wednesday, before the Rams-Titans trade. Jeremiah thinks it is a done deal for Tampa Bay if Florida cornerback Vernon Hargreaves is on the board when the Bucs are on the clock.
“I think edge rusher is a possibility but I do think if a corner like Vernon Hargreaves were to fall to No. 9, I think you just go ahead and turn in the card if you are Tampa Bay,” Jeremiah said. “I know they went out and they got Brent Grimes in the offseason. I don’t know how much longer he is going to play. And with Hargreaves, you have somebody who can play inside and who can play outside and can give them a playmaker in the back end. They need this defense cranked up a little bit and I think a playmaker like Hargreaves makes a lot of sense.”
Joe has nothing against Hargreaves at all. Seems like a really smart, good guy. Just not sold that Hargreaves is the guy the Bucs are targeting. But cornerback does make sense.
Yes, the Bucs need a defensive end. That really goes without saying. However, if Johnthan Banks, who will be a free agent after this season, and Alterraun Verner, who is very expensive, cannot be rehabilitated from the mental anguish playing for Coach My Scheme, the Bucs will definitely be in need of a cornerback.
And in this era when more and more teams play with five- and six-defensive back sets, a team cannot have too many good cornerbacks.
April 15th, 2016 at 5:40 am
He plays pretty good as a college CB, but will that translate to a pro bowl player in the NFL. I like the player but I would prefer a DE.
The best teams win drafting O-Line and D-Line in the first
April 15th, 2016 at 5:41 am
I hope not. Not worthy of top ten pick to me. We gota win the line of scrimmage or the games wont be won either. Pretty sure mike smiths smarter than me. I could still see them taking a wr in the first then going defense the rest of the way. Go bucs
April 15th, 2016 at 6:04 am
I get a Morris Claiborne vibe from Hargreaves
April 15th, 2016 at 6:04 am
You’re right d-roca, you’re not that smarter if you want the Bucs to draft a WR in the first round.
April 15th, 2016 at 6:14 am
I have no problem with that pick!he can learn from Grimes.
April 15th, 2016 at 6:33 am
Patrick. I am in VA too and I couldn’t agree more. Morris Claiborne looking for a place to happen.
April 15th, 2016 at 6:34 am
My brother is a Florida gator. Doesn’t miss one second of any of their games. Said he is a stud and is very similar to joe Haden. Literally same size and everything( Haden has a little more speed) We need a DE as well but unless a true 4-3 DE like bosa falls this is a great pick. Seems like we would reach for ogbah, spence etc when one of those guys are projected near our second round
Pick which is realistic. Who cares is we have two 5 10 guys. Grimes is short term filling a spot. Maybe just a year. Need to get him. He can ball for years to come
April 15th, 2016 at 7:06 am
Pissd
Lol. I respect your view. N i didnt say i wanted a wr i think they just might take one. I wouldnt mind coleman to take the top off. Without that we wont see much improvement from the O. Ive been studying the draft along time my friend. The fact the bucs havnt brought in any offensive players leads me to believe they are leaning that way. Its the season of smokescreens. We will find out soon tho
April 15th, 2016 at 7:07 am
I’ll be happy with Hargreaves if he is the pick. Represents great value at a need position. Would be nice to have a corner that QBs are afraid to throw at. It’s a poop shoot anyway. You never know which players aren’t cut out for the NFL and bust.
April 15th, 2016 at 7:20 am
I think the Bucs will be picking 15th after trading their pick to the Titans and picking up an extra 2nd round pick at which point we take the defensive end from Oklahoma State.
April 15th, 2016 at 7:24 am
Licht tipped his hand yesterday when talking about interior pressure. Sheldon Rankins is the best 3 tech tackle in the draft. I know we have McCoy, but he can’t play every down, and won’t see a third contract. McDonald, and Spence are coming back from injuries, and our other two tackles weren’t retained. We picked up two corners in F.A., and a D end. Turn in the card, it’s Rankins.
April 15th, 2016 at 7:46 am
Any Buc fan who really knows football, who really watched those painful games last season knows…we desperately need a pass rushing DE. Our Defensive line was truly pitiful. So bad in fact we actually cringed every time an opposing QB went back to throw the ball. He had time to order and eat a meal.
April 15th, 2016 at 7:55 am
Ogbah at 9. Until someone informs me of any other athlete entering this draft having visited One Bucc Place for an interview that’s who I’m rolling wit. And besides Apple is the true target at the CB position.
April 15th, 2016 at 8:14 am
had a dream we drafted rankins
April 15th, 2016 at 8:22 am
Grimes will be lucky to make it one season here. Let alone two. He has gotten worse the last couple of years. He could come in a suck. IF VH3 is there at 9, that means Stanley and Jack are gone. Just like Jeremiah said, “turn in the card”. Shut down CB’s are just as hard to find as top DE’s. And there isn’t a true DE that isn’t a reach at #9. That’s the main point. Bosa will be an average pro at best, Buckner will be a DT. I love Ogbah and wouldn’t be too upset if he ends up being the pick. But, he would make more sense if we were able to trade down 5-10 spots.
April 15th, 2016 at 8:24 am
YEA! Bring in the midget Hargraves! Have fun covering Kelvin Banjamin, Greg Olson, and Julio Jones twice a year!
April 15th, 2016 at 8:46 am
I prefer Ramsey, Bosa, or Buckner. But i don’t think either slip to the Bucs. I don’t like the idea of reaching for Lawson or Dodd. So i wouldn’t mind Hargreaves. We do need a CB. Hell, if Banks bounce back he can defend the big receivers in our division. Or we can go CB again next year. I wouldn’t be so fast to write off Hargreaves tho. Kid got talent.
April 15th, 2016 at 8:46 am
Deminion the pewter report has put out only two mocks this year so far. The first one had Ogbah going #1 the second one had Rankins going #1 so you may be on to something. I’d just prefer Ogbah. I wouldn’t be mad at grabing Rankins tho. It would just leave praying Ogbah didn’t end up in Carolina.
April 15th, 2016 at 8:57 am
I am with Nole on this one. Ogbah is my first choice. I really like Leonard Floyd especially given the fact that Smith does not play a true 4-3. I am extremely excited not to see the 4-3 on every single snap. I also like Spence but he will be gone before bucs pick in 2nd.
April 15th, 2016 at 9:01 am
@Joe
I saw some internet rumblings of Hargreaves failing a combine drug test yesterday. Is there any truth to that or just pre-draft misinformation being spread?
April 15th, 2016 at 9:01 am
tmax in the second round I would be drooling over Spence.
April 15th, 2016 at 9:08 am
I really like Lawson, Ogbah or Rankins in the first round.
Just because ESPN or some of the other services say a prospect is ranked in a certain spot doesnt mean they are accurate.
(Flashback Mayock and McShay both rated Blain Gabbert ahead of Cam Newton)
I do think VH will be a very good corner in the NFL but we have already seen him struggle against large WR’s. He appears to be a good guy and should have a very good career but
unfortunately for him our division has an inordinate amount of very large receivers which probably takes him out of consideration as a top 10 pick for the Bucs franchise.
April 15th, 2016 at 9:09 am
What I would like the most is dropping to 15, getting another second, and getting Apple and moving back into the first to get Ogbah/Spence. If we stay at 9 I would like Rankins or maybe Lawson then Karl Joseph/William Jackson III in two. Now that we have Ayers (I also like Howard) I dont feel we are extremely desperate for a DE. Not to say we shouldn’t still draft one or two DE Im just saying we have more room to work with. I dont think we go WR until at least the third
April 15th, 2016 at 9:26 am
Crazy how every Mock draft has us taking Hargreaves. I just don’t see it but it seems like they peeked in Bucs draft room because MOST draft mocks have us taking him.
I say if Bosa not there then we go with a DT at #15
April 15th, 2016 at 9:33 am
There is no defensive end in this draft that is so much better at 9 than you would get at 39. I would take Hargreaves at 9 because I can see him being a plug in starter for the next 7 years, but I don’t think he is leaps and bounds better than a Mackensie Alexander(who may have character issues), Eli Apple or even Kendall Fuller who you can get in the 2nd day. I personally think that DB and DL are the two deepest positions in this draft, even though they don’t have a dominant prospect(besides Ramsey, who is really a hybrid). With that being said, I would do everything I could to fade back into the 15-20 range and draft the highest WR on my board.
Let’s face it, NO defensive player in the 1st round is going to make this defense ELITE. I don’t care who it is. This defense really needs 2 safeties, at least 1 CB, 1 LB(Smith is pretty old) and could use 2-3 DL. I do believe that the defense will be a lot better with a healthy Jacques Smith, Daryl Smith,Ayers and Grimes, but I’m sure Licht is looking for long term defensive studs in the draft. Packaging that 9th pick could at the very least give you 2 extra 3rd round picks(great value) but hopefully an extra 2nd round pick. You could use those 2 second round picks to draft a DL, CB or safety, which has plenty of depth at CB and DL. In all honesty, you can spend the rest of your draft on plugging defensive holes.
If the Bucs make the playoffs in 2016, it will be because a young and talented offense led them there. I don’t think played a full game with 13, 87, 83 and 18 together. Give him a stud WR like Josh Doctson or Corey Coleman to make plays before and after the catch. Mike Evans is ALWAYS open but he can’t do much after the catch. We don’t know how much V Jax has left in the tank so we can’t rely on him taking Jameis to the next level. I’d take him, but I don’t like a Will Fuller in the 2nd round because it’s gonna take him 2 years to learn how to be a WR. Doctson and Coleman can play inside and out, which allows V Jax to work the slot more with his big body. You just can’t have your “franchise QB” throwing to Humphries, Dye, Bell and Murphy coming off of ACL surgery. Not when you’re talking about playoffs.
April 15th, 2016 at 9:36 am
If only Lovies son had one more year with Verner and Banks. Oh wait one more year and they probably would have been cut with Lovie as head coach.
April 15th, 2016 at 9:41 am
I like this one, I like that one, like kids in a candy store. Keep telling me because I forgot the past 50 times you told me. I’m ready to move on to the post draft jubilation or the what should have been disgust. Just kidding sort of.
April 15th, 2016 at 10:22 am
[Daniel/DPewter/Danart: Please stick with one username. Thank you. — Joe.]
Bosa is the only 4-3 DE worth taking in the top ten, and he is not a true edge rusher. Hargreaves is the best cover CB in the draft why wouldn’t he be a desirable pick? Who is the clear cut best edge rusher again?
I also wouldn’t rule out Jaq Smith, he has shown potential while healthy and Gholston is a great run stuffing DE with the height to swat/alter passes. A speedy edge rusher will still be available the in second round.
April 15th, 2016 at 10:28 am
lol…for those of you who question his height, name a cb besides Sherman and pat p that are taller than 5’11 and are shut down cb’s…the top 5 cbs in the league are revis, Sherman, pat p, talib, joe haden/ chris harris/josh norman….revis harris and haden are all 5’11 or shorter…out of all the cbs in the league only 3 are taller than 5’11 and are lock down cbs….plus vhg would have ota’s, training camp and in season practice to go up against vjax, evans and asj every single day….in addition to that he would have grimes showing him the ropes….morris claboure?…..don’t insult vhg like that…claboures mo coming out of college was that he had horrible technique…vhg has the best footwork, technique and ball skills of any db in this draft including ramsey…vhg is great value at #9 because he can play nickel and outside…this kid will be the next shutdown cb…licht would be stupid to pass on him….GO BUCS!!!
April 15th, 2016 at 11:15 am
I see Hargreaves as a relatively safe pick at 9. Its a bit of a reach perhaps – but aside from Ramsey, Tunsil, Myles Jack and perhaps Stanley, and Bosa – there are not many legit, sure fire top 10 level talents in this group coming out. Its a great draft from 15>100 but not great value for teams picking in the 6>10 range.
Hargreaves is going to be a good NFL player. Let’s start there.
Those making Claiborne comparisons are out of their minds. Claiborne scored a 4 on the wonderlic intelligence test.
No record I can find of VH3s test score, but he is widely considered to be a smart young man and a smart player. He is not a “tall” nor “fast” cornerback – but Hargreaves is a good athlete. His 39″ vertical jump is legit and his technique is VERY solid and polished. He is aggressive and makes plays on the ball better than any CB in this draft.
At the least, he will be a good starting NFL cb – but there is potential for more than good with VH3.
It would be amazing if we could get Ramsey – but that seems like a pipe dream unless we are willing to give away valuable picks to move up to the 3rd or 4th pick to get him. VH3 is very likely to be available at 9 and actually has the potential to be the better pure CB IMO.
Hargreaves is not a great value at 9 – but IMO he’s the safest defensive player likely to be available that fits an area of need for the Bucs at that draft spot. If we don’t take him at 9, the Giants are likely to take him at 10 so he’s going to be a top 10 pick 1 way or another I believe.
If the Bucs move down to 15 as is now being speculated, then I would be looking at DEs in that area because it is such a high need position – but no DEs are worthy of the 9th pick for a 4-3 defensive team without losing a good bit of grade value unless Bosa slips to 9.
April 15th, 2016 at 11:48 am
I just don’t see licht drafting a cb a #9 reason being is because this is a deep class of dbs and DE… my dream scenario is trading down in the teens ijs
April 15th, 2016 at 11:56 am
I want Floyd (if we dont trade back) or Ogbah (if we do). And wouldnt mind Nkemdiche if he’s there near the top of the 2nd….would have to trade up for him though.
Im starting to move away from WR since we can probably still land Pharoh Cooper in the 4th. We need D line NOW and what better way to start off under the new regime of Mike Smith and Jay Hayes.
April 15th, 2016 at 12:23 pm
@pickgrin…I agree with most of what you said but how is vhg not good value at #9?…he fills a position of need, is worthy of a top 10 pick and can play slot and on the outside…we both agree that he could end up being a better pure cover cb than ramsey…just thought id ask…GO BUCS!!!
April 15th, 2016 at 1:05 pm
Not to make a ton of references to fantasy football drafts, but if you understand tiering strategy #9 is a bad spot to pick at due to a large number of players there with similar talent. In that scenario, trading down is a very wise move. Some other team may covet a player at that slot hopefully. I can name many players that will go from pick 15 on for instance that can help the team a lot. Therefore, the more you can get, the better. Also, if you miss on your pick you have another chance to be successful.
April 15th, 2016 at 1:06 pm
It’s important to note that PewterReport has said the Bucs are not in love with Hargreaves. Usually, PR has good sources on stuff like this, and they make like Eli Apple better. Whether either of them is worth the #9 overall is debatable.
April 15th, 2016 at 1:19 pm
I like the idea of Rankins though. He’s not disputed to be the number 1 DT in the draft. So the Bucs become even HARDER to run on, then you focus on the secondary most of the rest of the draft. McCoy and Rankins with Lavonte David and “The Kwon” stopping the run will make teams *cringe*! Our ends will also get more sacks if our interior is THAT strong. I hope this is not a double post. Having trouble with the site.
April 15th, 2016 at 2:04 pm
Here we go again with people who haven’t watched/ studied game film wanting Ogbah at 9. I swear there are some extremely ignorant fans here. Like the 30-40% who voted they wanted a corner at 9. Or those so overly optimistic about the Bucs winning 10+ games. I am so glad Joe does polls so I can see what kind of people we have around here.
April 15th, 2016 at 3:52 pm
VHG is not tall (like many elite corners, as someone noted above) or fast but, boy does he ever pass MY eye test! Worthy of the #9 pick? I dunno; I don’t profess to be an “x-spurt”, like so many on here. Wouldn’t be too upset if they picked the best cover corner in the draft at #9.
April 16th, 2016 at 12:09 am
813bucboi Says:
April 15th, 2016 at 12:23 pm
@pickgrin…I agree with most of what you said but how is vhg not good value at #9?
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Because VH3 is a bit outside what you would like to see in a top 10 pick – grade wise and intangible wise (5-10″ and 4.5 sec 40). Most years a guy like him would be drafted in the 15>20 range. This year’s draft is “deep” but has a lack of A+ top tier talent so Hargreaves will probably go in the 8-12 range.
I do think he will probably be a good NFL player and could definitely turn out to be a pro bowl caliber CB – but that could just as easily be said of any of the top 50 picks – and the “bust” ratio of all the top 50 players ever drafted is right around 50%.