“Lovie Smith Got A Raw Deal”
January 18th, 2016
His apologists are hurt.
The whining from BSPN continues.
Joe is stunned by how the national fourth estate has covered (ignored?) the coaching change with the Bucs, and by the ill-informed narratives they possess.
Over at theMMQB.com — a site Joe respects for the time being — best as Joe can tell, one whole paragraph (as of very late Sunday night) has been written about Lovie Smith being fired and replaced by Dirk Koetter. One friggin’ paragraph for an outfit that prides itself on deep and robust coverage of the NFL, with inside knowledge of locker rooms and front offices. That, folks, is shameful!
Then there is BSPN, always the worldwide leader in parody, where it seems the clowns up there have their heads so shoved up the arses of the NBA that they aren’t aware of football south of Washington, D.C.
To hear the Bristol-based crying over poor Lovie, if one didn’t know any better, Team Glazer ran off Bill Parcells.
The crytowels for Lovie are still soaked, as one can read from Ian O’Connor’s piece on grading the new coaching hires. O’Connor had to get a lame cheap shot in that fronts the BSPN-narrative of Lovie being a victim.
4. Dirk Koetter, Tampa Bay Buccaneers: He gets the nod at No. 4 over McAdoo primarily based on experience. The 56-year-old Koetter was a head coach for nine fairly successful seasons at Boise State and Arizona State (McAdoo wasn’t even a head coach on the high school level), and he has been an NFL offensive coordinator for 15 years. Though Lovie Smith got a raw deal here, Koetter did turn Jameis Winston into a 4,000-plus-yard passer as a rookie and elevated the Tampa Bay offense from a league ranking of 30th in 2014 to fifth in his first year on the job.
Raw deal? Joe’s rear end! The guy is getting paid $10 million not to work — if he chooses! Raw deal? Lovie and his family are set for their lives, hell, even grandchildren. Raw deal? Stop it! Stop it now!
For the folks who can’t stop bawling in their hands over Lovie being fired, if the Bucs really did unload the next Joe Gibbs, how come Lovie hasn’t gotten a sniff for another job? Riddle Joe that, apologists.
Painting Lovie as a victim is grossly irresponsible for folks who really got a raw deal, without a $10 million parachute.
Where were all the criers bawling for Greg Schiano who had a better record after two years? Lovie didn’t have a franchise quarterback wig out on him like Schiano.
January 18th, 2016 at 5:34 am
AMEN Joe. It’s because he got to a Super Bowl with Rex Grossman. I am so tires of that. Look at his record, look at the Defense he put on the field.look at the hand picked crap free agents he had come in here. This makes me ill, ok is he a good guy yes, damn nice guy, is he a good coach? not any more. The game passed him bye. He is stubborn, and that cost him his job. His scheme was more important then the wins and losses. What other coach would outright cut an all time talent like Revis? Lovie will go back to the basement again, and let’s see if he gets a sniff of another HC job. Maybe a LB coach, but not even a DC job, that says a TON.
January 18th, 2016 at 5:56 am
I’m so sick of hearing this crap. Lovie had to go and its simple as that. This defensive guru who’s defense was terrible doesn’t deserve another shot. People like Stephen A. Smith claiming it was partially race related are just making there selves look stupid
January 18th, 2016 at 5:56 am
Time for all those folks to turn the page Joe. The Glazers, as the owners of this franchise, obviously didn’t feel that Lovie could right the ship. Neither did a majority of Bucs fans. No one’s impressed with changing coaches every 2 years, but … losing gets old. NFL is a business, and owners don’t pay HCs $5 mil a year to lose.
Don’t understand why national media isn’t more excited about Dirk Koetter’s hiring though. Most of us fans are. I especially like that he’s putting together a solid coaching staff with excellent credentials. Thought initially that Schwartz would be a good DC hire, but the more I’ve read about Mike Smith the more I’m convinced that he’ll not only be a great DC here, but also that he’ll be a huge help to Dirk when it comes to adapting to HC duties.
Tough schedule this year, but looks like we’re in an excellent position to add some much-needed pieces on defense, tweak the offense even more, and get this puppy truly headed in the right direction.
January 18th, 2016 at 6:19 am
It was the BUCS Fans that got the Raw Deal
The Hiring of Lovie was supposed harken the glory days of the old Dominate Tampa 2 Defense.
But instead all we got was the anemic results of the past two years.
And while 6-10 > 2-14
the last four games this past season were just too scary to ignore.
If the thought at One Buc was to keep Lovie around for his third year
but on a short leash so that when/if the team started to sputter and be trounced again with one-sided losses, then fire him uncharacteristically for the Glazers mid-season and replace him with Koetter,
Why not do it now?
That way you don’t throw away another entire off season and full season rebuilding AGAIN.
The Tampa 2 is dead and has been dead since Father Dungy’s Colts exposed it on that improbable come back win at Tampa on a Monday night many years ago.
We need to Bury the Tampa 2 defense.
There will never be another team of players like them that will ever be able to make it work again.
#BUCSPLAYOFFS2016
January 18th, 2016 at 6:31 am
I wish I could get such a “raw” deal in my job. Fail at every level of my job and make millions
January 18th, 2016 at 6:35 am
Lovie was doomed when he could land Marinelli to run his defense….simple as that. His “touted” Chicago defense only excelled when Ron Rivera and Rod Marinelli were the coordinators.
January 18th, 2016 at 6:41 am
If Lovie is such a great coach why has no franchise even considered interviewing him?
January 18th, 2016 at 6:50 am
If Lovie was such a good coach he would have got another job right away like Chip Kelley. Also, if getting Ten Million dollars not to work over the next two years is raw deal I will take that any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
January 18th, 2016 at 7:30 am
We are just seeing the beginning of the Tampa2 mafia work the media!!! Why is there no outrage for the Seahawks that rushed the panthers kneel down at the end of yesterday’s game???
January 18th, 2016 at 7:33 am
It’s easy. LAZY
They must have just ran out of time to learn ANYTHING about any other team in the league. After all, they had to study the tape to see if Antonio Brown was faking and debate that relentlessly.
January 18th, 2016 at 7:36 am
So, are we going to start hearing about how Koetter is going to be winning with the team that Lovie put together now?
January 18th, 2016 at 7:37 am
This is a win now league and Lovie didn’t win. Simple as that. I wish my boss would give me the raw deal Lovie got.
January 18th, 2016 at 7:49 am
Patrick in VA – That was awsome!
January 18th, 2016 at 8:07 am
Realsist, because it was the playoffs, it wasnt against the Giants and it wasnt the Bucs.
Anyway, I keep saying it, until we do something as fans, there will be no one to hold the natl media accountable. They can spin our teams in our city however they want, and its usually not good when we challenge certain teams, Giants, Red Sox, Canadiens etc.
January 18th, 2016 at 8:08 am
“Raw deal? Joe’s rear end!” – Joe
He DID get a raw deal. IF Jason Licht controlled the drafts as evdryone here seems to believe, then Lovie was never permitted to build his defense the way he wished to. The raw deal part comes in when they fired him for not building a defense he never was given the opportunity to build.
And don’t try to claim he could have done it through free agency. Free Agency is full of washed up, under performing, rapidly aging, injury prone or one year wonder players. Everyone knows the way to build is through the draft.
And the money is not the point. Success is. His orginal OC stabbed him in the back, and his replacement OC took his job…using the players assembled through the draft on offense.
It was a completely raw deal, and anyone who cannot see that is blind.
That said, I don’t hold it against Koetter at all. I actually was the first person here to call for Koetter to be hired (before Mike Smith was even fired, because I knew it was coming). Koetter came in and did his job well. He deserves the recognition.
But that doesn’t erase the fact that Lovie got a raw deal.
If you work a job 14 years and get fired, but get severance pay…that pay does not erase the fact that you got fired…near your pension time…when you get rewarded for your work.
Lovie was hired under false pretenses. He was expected to bring back the Tampa 2 (why else hire a guy from the Tampa 2 system?). Tedford put the Bucs into a position that ended up getting the first pick in the draft…and they got Winston.
From the moment they got Winston, everything changed for Lovie. The reason he was hired went out the window. The Glazers and Licht, rightfully, made it all about building around Winston…the offense. That’s when Lovie lost control. That;s when he got the raw deal.
I’m fine with building around Winston. I think it is smart. And I like the idea of Koetter being head coach. But it does not change Lovie getting a raw deal.
January 18th, 2016 at 8:10 am
Not only does the draft provide young, fresh talent, but the players a team drafts tend to be more loyal to the first team to take a chance on them. That’s why so many free agents never work out.
January 18th, 2016 at 8:12 am
Chicago fired him when he was 10-6……Tampa fired him when he was 6-10….
Where was the raw deal?
January 18th, 2016 at 8:28 am
Nobody is crying for Schiano because he is a bleeping a__hole
January 18th, 2016 at 8:30 am
Defense Rules Says
“Don’t understand why national media isn’t more excited about Dirk Koetter’s hiring though. Most of us fans are.”
There are a few reasons for that. First, Koetter, as god an OC as he is, has no great record as a head coach. In the college days, his players were consistently in trouble with the law…off the field. One even committed murder. It’s all about perceptions. Bucs fans may not agree with Koetter being judged by what college players did off the field, but it is the reality of the situation.
Second, the Bucs have been alienating the media, and officials, for years. It started with the firing of Tony Dungy. Frankly, I don’t see anything wrong with the way he was fired, but the media did. With the strong connection to Dungy, Lovie Smith reminds them of that…right down to him coming in at night to get his things from the office.
On top of that, there was the MRSA scare a few years ago. Players of other teams were forced to play in Tampa, and even if it was safe, teams didn’t like it. Players hated it. It wasn’t the Bucs fault, but it still generated ill feelings indirectly.
And then we have Gruden. He was a winning coach who got fired, which isn’t normally a big deal, but on top of everything else AND him being the next John Madden, boom.
And then Chris Sims. The player who “nearly died for the team and got cut for it.” A bad public relations situation when his father is a historical NFL media figure.
And then we had Goldson, who mocked referees for most of his time here. And Talib, who got in fights on the field. And Pitman, who beat his wife. And Winslow, who had his issues.
And finally…the fact that our coaches get so little time.
On their own, these things seem like no big deal. But the media and the NFL fandom does not view things individually…they view them added together.
We’re a joke.
When I mention the Bengals before Marvin went there, what is the image that comes to mind? Thugs. Criminals. Do you think of each individual situation? Nope. And what did it take to change the culture there?
Marven Lewis was hired and given time. Not two years…even though he could not pass .500 the first 2 years. Even though he was only 3 games over .500 in 4 years. he went 4-12 in 2010 even. But he’s still there. 13 years later. and the last 5 years have been winning seasons.
We need to give our coaches more time.
January 18th, 2016 at 8:36 am
No, Jonathan banks got a raw deal though
January 18th, 2016 at 8:57 am
@BuccaneerBonzai … ‘We need to give our coaches more time.’
Agree with most of what you wrote Bonzai, but I think it goes even deeper. Bucs get roughly the same national recognition as teams like the Titans and Rams and Raiders for one major reason: we lose, and we lose A LOT. Granted the Bucs have done a lot of stupid things over the years (OK, some very stupid things), but if you win, you’ll get the national attention.
Changing coaches constantly is more reflective to me of the quality of the overall organization we’ve built here than anything else … up to the present time that is. I really think that we’re on the cusp of changing that; more and more key pieces seem to be falling into place.
Many say that the NFL has become an offense-driven league, but not sure I agree. Tend to think that the truly elite teams are very well balanced on both offense and defense (Seahawks, Patriots, Cardinals, Panthers?). Bucs have a lot of work to do on BOTH sides of the ball to become a truly elite team that consistently wins and makes the playoffs, but I’ve got a lot of faith that Jason Licht and Dirk Koetter (and Mike Smith) can pretty quickly assemble the needed pieces to restore the Bucs to a winning trajectory. And yes, I have said that too many times before.
January 18th, 2016 at 8:58 am
Bonzai,
Very well thought out post as usual. The only issue I’ll take with it is this: While I did not expect Lovie to build a great defense through free agency, if they were mediocre, that probably would have saved his job. You have to admit that the free agent hires were abysmal.
January 18th, 2016 at 9:47 am
Bonzai…Marvin Lewis’ teams are VERY undisciplined or did you miss the the Steelers-Bengals game last week? Apparently so.
January 18th, 2016 at 9:51 am
Bonzai…apparently you were impressed by Lovie’s in-game decisions which btw has nothing to do with FA and the draft. That’s what pissed me off the most about Lovie, but no one hardly ever mentions it.
Luckily there’s always me to remind everyone.
January 18th, 2016 at 9:58 am
1987, if you were to make a list of the bad ingame decisions vs the good ones, you would quickly find out that in any given game, the good outweighed the bad.
The bad just happened at the worst possible moment, so it was more memorable.
January 18th, 2016 at 10:00 am
Why are we surprised? Since when has the national media ever treated the Bucs with the same rah rah as the teams North of Georgia? Never.
January 18th, 2016 at 10:03 am
Hey 87 once again we find ourselves in agreement. Lovie’s game management may have been his very worst trait…but his eye for talent is also pretty bad.
Or as Sam Wyche may have said it….hey Lovie may have been horrible on the sidelines on gameday but at least he was a horrible talent evaluator.
@Bonzai
I was one who thought Lovie would get another year and wasn’t upset if he did.
But “respect” can only carry you so far. It was time for Lovie to go.
It’s as simple as that.
As for your “hard on” against Koetter I just don’t get it. Yes ONE player was guilty of murder! Are you suggesting other college programs haven’t had their share of miscreants.
Why do you never post Koetter’s excellent graduation rates. The fact that he literally took Boise State and put them on the National Map. You do realize that Boise State was in a horrid slump going through three coaches before Koetter turned it all around and got an unknown program national attention.
You NEVER post that Koetter was the first coach in 20 years at ASU to win back to back bowl games.
Where is the balance Bonzai?
January 18th, 2016 at 10:06 am
Bonzai…exactly they far outweigh the “good ones”. Some deciions which costed them games.
Do I have to remind everyone about the 12 men on the field game in 2014? I don’t think I do, but I just did and no I don’t want to re-watch any of those games. I want to put them in the rear-view.
January 18th, 2016 at 10:40 am
Please Joe, just turn the page.
January 18th, 2016 at 10:49 am
@Buc1987
You are going to have to excuse Bonzai!! is a very sick man, He is in full Tampa2 Denial!!! There is really no known cure!!!
The good outweighed the bad??? Wow, Just wow!!!
January 18th, 2016 at 10:50 am
Lovie was a hack. He did a terrible iob building this team. Lovie gave Licht control of the draft (rightfully so) and Licht did his best to infuse this tram with talent. I’d say licht did a good job with that.
Lovie had the power during free agency. What he did year one with glazer money was atrocious. You can give him a pass for year 1 because he had no OC. But not having an OC does not excuse his terrible defense. With a hand picked DE that he claimed would be a 10 sack guy in his defense. Completely demolished our O line. Cut the best CB in the league, when we obviously direly need a stud like that.
The glazers were right to want to fire him after year 1. The organizational decision he made were pure idiotic. The fans knew he was destroying this team. None of the fans wants revis to go. All of the fans questioned a DE with 3 sacks the year before. All of the fans questioned a back up OT who hasnt played more than a few games. And Lovie paid them top dollar. The fans saw what a catastrophy we were getting into. And that was before week 1.
Year 2 comes and he cuts the high priced free agents he signed a year ago. The glazers must have been beside themselves. Lovie showed so much disrespect to them by playing with their cash like it was Monopoly money. Imo Lovie was very lucky he even got year 2. Most owners wouldnt have put up with lovie’s crap.
January 18th, 2016 at 11:04 am
I’ve long moved on from Lovie. I thought he earned another year but I can certainly understand why he was fired. And Bonzai It went out the window when the Bucs went 2-14. I know, Tedford, but there has to be a back up plan, to some extent to avoid disaster. I understand the roster was bare when Lovie arrived, but he had players, Revis, to build around. So Lovie did not get a blank slate in 2015. And he shouldn’t.
Now I defended Lovie this year when ppl brought scheme, motivation etc
January 18th, 2016 at 11:38 am
Doubt Lovie Smith will ever be a head coach again. Even defensive coordinator would be a stretch. It took the Glazers, and anybody paying attention, a few games to realize his hiring was a horrible mistake.
January 18th, 2016 at 12:07 pm
Lovie got what he gave, a raw deal. Thank you the raw deal makers.
January 18th, 2016 at 1:13 pm
I was crying about Schiano getting shafted…definitely was in the minority then and got blasted by many JBF posters. At least the truth is slowly coming out…yes, his 2013 record was poor, but he was doomed more so by a poor media relation as well as some unfounded accusations made by a bitter and immature former “franchise QB’s” camp. Coaches have been retained for doing a worse job than Schiano, yet somehow Lovie does worse and some people are crying “raw deal!”???
January 18th, 2016 at 2:04 pm
If you really want to believe that Lovie had no control of THE GUY HE HIRED, then, you simply don’t want to hear the truth. Let it go, you’re embarrassing yourself.
January 18th, 2016 at 2:14 pm
Joe – I agree with you that Lovie isn’t an elite coach – but any coach who gets only two years gets a raw deal. Historically, teams that change coaches as often as the Bucs do are constantly mired in the top half of the draft. If Dirk Koetter still isn’t the Bucs head coach in 4 years – then I can pretty much guarantee we won’t be making the playoffs for the next 6-8 years.
January 18th, 2016 at 2:48 pm
retrospect: a raw deal is when an outside judge awards the victory to please the establishment. A raw deal is when the depression hits and you lose you job, home, and you and your family must sleep in the car. A raw deal is when you just one the lotto and you get hit by a car in the parking lot going to collect.
There are a lot of raw deals.
Getting paid an aggregate of 20 million dollars for 2 years work, is not a raw deal, its a god send.
January 18th, 2016 at 3:01 pm
As Bucs fans we all can site the numerous reasons Lovie got fired. The team showed a lot of potential that peeked at 6-6. Lovie has to be accountable for the team to have playoff potential and, yet again, finishing last place. Lovie didn’t make the corrections or adjustments to keep the players from losing games and he took the axe. Most all of us see the justification in Smiths firing.
But we are Bucs fans. The “raw deal” idea is coming from somebody outside looking in. From that point of view this franchise looks dysfunctional. The Glazers pis through head coaches every other year and continue to look clueless as to who they should hire. The Glazers seemingly make kneejerk reactions at any signs of trouble……… This is not my actual opinion. But I could easily see how an outsider would see it this way. If I were an outsider I could surely see Lovie as the scapegoat here for yet another overreaction by owners who make nothing but poor decisions.
January 18th, 2016 at 3:25 pm
LOL Tony you are looking at this all backwards. Coaches stay when their teams perform and win. If teams lose a lot and even win themselves a number one overall pick they typically will have a coaching change. Ultimately, all of the coaches that are lucky enough to have a franchise QB are considered to be good coaches. Bill Belicheat bounced around the league until he got teamed up with Tom Brady and suddenly became a genius. IMHO the QB is the key to every franchises success. For proof just look at the four teams still in the playoffs right now. The same teams with franchise QBs keep showing up year in and year out. Something tells me that Koetter is taking over at just the right time. Next year might be mediocre but by year two or three he is going to be considered a great coach. Really though it will be because he has Jameis as his QB. We are not Cleveland regardless of the what the national media says because we have a franchise QB who is only going to get better and better. Koetter will be considered a top notch coach by year 3 as well.
January 18th, 2016 at 6:14 pm
Lovie did get a raw deal. Just look at the teams in playoff contention right now. All or most of them..Built a team. There was no instant winners among them. I would have loved to see what Lovie could have done with a draft defensively..like we did on offense. Whats done though is done. But I can tell all of you this…If changing coaches every 2 yrs is the Bucs formula? We shall always be..celler dwellers forever and a day. You got your golden boy Koetter. The media in Tampa and quite a few fans wanted him. Well. here he is. For his sake, I hope he succeeds. Schiano and Lovie got..fresh bait and a fishing reel waitin on him if he does not. Don’t feel sorry for Lovie..He will be collecting millions from the glazers the next 2 yrs while most of us day beggers (9 to 5fers) sweat for 25 to 60 grand per yr.
January 18th, 2016 at 11:09 pm
So Lovie hires Licht. Licht in charge of draft. Licht drafts all offensive players except for 1. Offense improves, defense stays stagnant. Lovie gets fired. Makes a lot of sense!
January 18th, 2016 at 11:55 pm
No.
January 19th, 2016 at 6:30 am
these folks who whined about lovie are stupid. the players and coaches around the nfl would tell you he got hosed. they think they know more than folks whose job is the nfl.
January 19th, 2016 at 6:37 am
I agree with you that Lovie isn’t an elite coach – but any coach who gets only two years gets a raw deal. Historically, teams that change coaches as often as the Bucs do are constantly mired in the top half of the draft. If Dirk Koetter still isn’t the Bucs head coach in 4 years – then I can pretty much guarantee we won’t be making the playoffs for the next 6-8 years
truth
LOL Tony you are looking at this all backwards. Coaches stay when their teams perform and win. If teams lose a lot and even win themselves a number one overall pick they typically will have a coaching change. Ultimately, all of the coaches that are lucky enough to have a franchise QB are considered to be good coaches. Bill Belicheat bounced around the league until he got teamed up with Tom Brady and suddenly became a genius. IMHO the QB is the key to every franchises success. For proof just look at the four teams still in the playoffs right now. The same teams with franchise QBs keep showing up year in and year out.
and they do not fire coaches very two yrs either you guys would have been calling for mike tomlin,s head too