Dungy Preaching Patience To Team Glazer
January 24th, 2016
(Photo courtesy of Buccaneers.com.)
Joe has used the phrase “continuity of sucking” in describing why Team Glazer does not deserve a beating for firing Greg Schiano and Lovie Smith.
Successful businesses rarely reward subpar work and results.
But Father Dungy has a different view, as does former Ravens Super Bowl coach Brian Billick. Both are quoted in a brief study of the Tampa Bay franchise’s approach served up this morning by Woody Cummings of The Tampa Tribune.
Here’s an excerpt:
“What the Bucs need to do is decide, ‘What are we going to be?’ instead of saying, ‘We’re a defensive team, now we’re going to be an offensive team,’ or, ‘We have a player’s coach, now we’ll have a hard-liner,’” Dungy said. “You’ve got to figure out what you want, stay with it and then back the guy to the hilt.
“And then you’ve got to let the plan play out, because that’s what people don’t do in this league. It’s the new wave of owners that don’t understand football and how to have a philosophy. It’s all short-term thinking. And most people give up way too soon, and that’s why certain teams like Cleveland go through this cycle all the time.’’
Joe surely understands Dungy’s line of thinking, but it’s way off the mark, in part because the NFL is going to be half-full with losers every season. Mathematically, Dungy’s approach doesn’t add up. If every team gave its head coach lots of years, you’d still have the same number of losers each season. By contrast, teams succeed within two years under a head coach all the time.
Just look at the Redskins, Texans and Vikings, all in the playoffs this season with second-year head coaches.
Also, it’s as if Dungy makes no allowance for how a team looks on the field. The Bucs, for example, lost three of their last four games to poor teams, two at home. And in their final game, they were non-competitive against a Carolina team that had just come off a loss to division rival Atlanta.
It’s ownership’s job to assess whether a head coach is on the right track, while balancing available replacement candidates and the direction of the team, based on personnel.
Regardless, coaching turnover is a not a new phenomenon. Weeks ago, TheMMQB.com studied the data and found NFL coaches now have nearly the same job security as they always did. And as Joe wrote this month, the 49ers hired a new head coach in 1977, then fired him after one year. They hired a new head coach in 1978, and fired him during that season. In 1979, they hired Bill Walsh, and the rest is history.
For those who think Dungy is on the mark, Joe advises you to relax. Dungy’s take does not mean the Bucs can’t be a significantly improved football team in 2016. In fact, they should be.
January 24th, 2016 at 11:08 am
Dungy’s team improved dramatically in his 2nd season with the Bucs.
Nuff said.
January 24th, 2016 at 11:12 am
Thanks for what you did for us Father Dungy, but your line of thinking is archaic and I am beyond happy with the direction our team has taken.
Truly an exciting time for Bucs fans.
January 24th, 2016 at 11:19 am
Even good coaches go through cycles…..it happened to Gruden, Coughlin, Fox, Ryan and others…..
I agree that some patience is necessary and a coach should have a chance to make the changes necessary……Lovie was the wrong coach and he inspired no confidence in his management going forward. The Glazers made the right decision.
Lovie Smith is solely responsible for his own firing.
January 24th, 2016 at 11:29 am
Lovie not getting any sniffs for ANY coaching jobs is all the proof I need.
January 24th, 2016 at 11:35 am
He almost sounds like a union rep, “Hey don’t fire our guys because they do a poor job.”
This is a results based business (like most jobs are), and usually for a HC, that means Ws, although there are other ways to measure a Head Coach, although none as tangible. I wonder what areas Dungy thinks that Smith excelled in enough to merit keeping him on.
For those that say he should not have been fired because he needs more time, the question is, more time for what? What about this Bucs team, outside of JW3 which I think his progress/development has very little to do with Smith, can one point to and say, “You can clearly see the Bucs have improved under Smith in this area”? Penalties? Clock Management? Team Effort?
There aren’t any. With two whole seasons, teams may or may not be playoff contenders, but there should be some clear signs of improvement if a coach expects to be retained, especially if still putting up double digit losses.
I think barring a 2 win or less season in 2016, Koetter will get at least 2 years, and the team is still stuck in mire after that, with no signs of improvement outside of a couple individual efforts, then he should be let go too.
2 years may not be enough time to build a “winner” but it is more than enough time to build a team that shows promise and is headed in the right direction.
January 24th, 2016 at 11:38 am
Sure Lovie “earned” a third year, but did anyone honestly beleive we would be a playoff team under Lovie. Stats and tangibles aside, who in their heart of hearts felt that Lovie would lead our Bucs to January.
January 24th, 2016 at 11:40 am
Shut up Dungy. Quit poking your nose into the Bucs business.
January 24th, 2016 at 11:42 am
all of that starts with the presumption that you have belief in your coach and his plan. when you no longer do, you owe it to the fans to find someone new
January 24th, 2016 at 11:46 am
Stop adding your words to the comment know where did he say a team couldn’t be successful early nor did he say give the guy a lot of years. Dungy turned the Bucs around in 2 years he would be foolish to think it could not be done quickly when he did it himself.Since we are giving our opinion I still believe Dungy love the Bucs and don’t want to see them end up like the Browns.
January 24th, 2016 at 11:47 am
LargoBuc….I was truly depressed during the days after black Monday until Lovie was fired.
Disclaimer : Black Monday has nothing to do with race.
January 24th, 2016 at 11:58 am
Know what would be nice…if we moved on from Dung!We have a different coach and GM and finally a franchise quarterback and we’re still talking about a coach that has been gone over 14 years!
COME ON MAN!!!!!!!
January 24th, 2016 at 11:59 am
Where was all this concern over patience after Schiano got fired? I guess it’s not as important to be patient and supportive of a coach when one of your close personal friends is the one waiting in the wings to ger the HC job? I can’t see how people can be upset with the Glazer’s for holding Lovie to a similar standard as Schiano? How could they justify retaining a guy who did a worse job than the guy he replaced?
January 24th, 2016 at 12:07 pm
Toes…yes I know it boggles the mind. Actually not really.
January 24th, 2016 at 12:34 pm
I agree that the owners need to decide what they want there team to be, find the coach they believe in and have his back. That makes perfect sense, but they also need to decide if that coach is the best person to deliver that goal. Anyone who has ever hired people knows that you always feel great about the new hire otherwise you wouldn’t have hired them, but sometimes they just don’t work out.
January 24th, 2016 at 12:37 pm
This time next year the main consensus will be that ” Cannot believe that anyone wanted to see year 3 of the lovie debacle” !!!
Enjoy this Bucs fans, Its time to rise!!!!
Go Bucs!!!!!!!!!!!!!
January 24th, 2016 at 1:08 pm
Dungy is absolutely correcto Mundo!! You need only to look at the history of this yrs playoff teams. They stuck with their coaches thru thick and thin. Especially Carolina. Not us though. And therein lies our sorry laughing stock record for years and maybe..yrs to come! I don’t blame the Glazers for wanting to win. But I do blame them for not knowing how to win. And our fans are the fair weatherist of them all. You can have all the offense in the world. But if yas can’t stop anybody you are not gonna win in this league. Fans became glazed and enamored with Koetters offense. Fine ..but that don’t make a HC. HE was..doing his job. Until we stick with a coach long term we will continue to be BTL’s (BigTime Losers). BEcause of the way things were done, I have no mercy on this present new coaching staff. Win..and I will let up. Until then? Koetter is just another Honeymooner. The clock is ticking baby.
January 24th, 2016 at 1:08 pm
There is no justifiable reason for firing Lovie other than the fact that the owners are entitled to hire and fire who they want to hire and fire.
First- Dungy is referring to a cycle. All teams go through a cycle of winning and loosing. No team should be as bad as the Bucs and Browns has been. There reason for how bad they have been is due to the lack of consistency. Schiano was a bad hire because he was an idiot plans and simple. Raheem was a bad hire because he was to lenient and could not keep his players focused on the football field. Lovie had no talent when he came to Tampa. McCoy is a bust; I do care how much you cry up his butt. The numbers do not lie. If McCoy had lived to his build, the Bucs would have been in the playoff.
Second- When you use the team with the racist name and the Texan to prove your point it shows a lack of integrity. The division that those two teams play in where horrible. By using your selected teams to prove your point, you shine a light on the truth which is there was no reason to fire Lovie except for the fact that the Glazers own the team and they can hire and fire whoever the please. It is a case of “Plato’s Allegory of the Cave.” People do not want the truth. Everyone wants to point to the penalties to justify firing Lovie and replacing him with Koetter and Mike Smith who will discipline the players. Well the majority of the penalties were on the offensive side of the ball.
THE TRUTH BE TOLD
January 24th, 2016 at 1:08 pm
The Buc Realist…nope you’ll still have a few that will say Koetter won with Lovie’s team and Lovie was on the brink….
C’mon man you’re smarter than that!
January 24th, 2016 at 1:08 pm
Again…Rah and Schiano were NOT mistakes. They were temporary patches the Glazers put in place because at that time they didn’t have any money. No respectable coach would have taken the job back then. Everybody knew about ManU…smaller salaries for not just HC but his assistants and little money for FA.
So let’s just forget Rah and Schiano.
In hindsight I think the vast majority of us agree that Lovie was clearly a mistake.
Once again the Glazers were putting money into the franchise and they certainly gave Lovie a good contract and let him pad his take by allowing his two incompetent sons to ruin our DB’s.
The Glazers had money and they had an actual choice available when they selected Lovie. They still are putting that money into the franchise which is why they could get both Koetter and Mike Smith.
They also have a franchise QB in house which makes the job attractive. So there will be no excuses for these hires like with Rah and Schiano.
I agree with the folks here that Koetter will get at least two years of his contract…but that will actually be like three for him because of last season.
I like Koetter’s chances for success!
January 24th, 2016 at 1:09 pm
Dungy turned this franchise around in less than 1 year – by the end of his 1st season (1996) the Bucs were playing very solid football and then started off the 1997 5-0.
Dungy’s record after 2 seasons was 16-16 with a playoff win. Lovie’s record after 2 seasons was 8-24 and ended with 4 straight losses – So not sure of the relevance of what he is saying here. If the team had fallen apart in 1997 then Tony’s job would have been on the line at that point as well.
So according to Tony Dungy, the Bucs should have drafted Marcus Mariota and hung onto Lovie…. Nuff said….
I like where we are now a lot better than if Tony Dungy was calling the shots around here. .
January 24th, 2016 at 1:12 pm
Buc1987 Says:
January 24th, 2016 at 11:47 am
LargoBuc….I was truly depressed during the days after black Monday until Lovie was fired.
Disclaimer : Black Monday has nothing to do with race.
I read your post and race did not come to my mind, but it came to yours.
January 24th, 2016 at 1:20 pm
loggedontosay Says:
January 24th, 2016 at 1:12 pm
Buc1987 Says:
January 24th, 2016 at 11:47 am
LargoBuc….I was truly depressed during the days after black Monday until Lovie was fired.
Disclaimer : Black Monday has nothing to do with race.
“I read your post and race did not come to my mind, but it came to yours.”
Yes but if you were on this site enough since Lovie has been fired the race card gets dropped left and right. Even the mere mention of the word black NEEDS a disclaimer these days. Especially in today’s America. 2 years ago folks were considering doing away with the words Black Friday because it sounded too racist and that’s NO lie. This is the America we live in. So every time I mention Lovie Smith in a bad light, that disclaimer WILL follow and for good reason. Seeing how the race card has been thrown at me more than once on here when referring to Lovie. If Joe tells me to stop then I’ll drop the disclaimer. This is not the first time I’ve used the disclaimer and it won’t be the last, so long as we have the race card droppers on this site.
January 24th, 2016 at 1:32 pm
1987- You really should quit it with this race stuff. You made yourself look really foolish in the other article. Just knock it off man.
If you want to reply please do so on the other article I mentioned “it was a sham”
People come on here to read sports and you are turning it into something nasty. Let’s try not to litter every Bucs page with your uneducated racial ideas.
January 24th, 2016 at 1:36 pm
The Glazers keep firing coaches looking for the right man. If Licht is half the GM we think he is then Koetter is that man. This franchise won’t see improvement til we have somebody decent calling the shots. Right now its on Licht. He can’t do any worse then our last GM, right?
January 24th, 2016 at 2:06 pm
Dungy does make some good points, although I don’t think it can be used in Lovie’s case. Lovie is a veteran coach and it was reasonable to expect more out of his team. Too many pieces of evidence supporting the notion that he just wasn’t a good coach. Schiano was doomed by the fact that he was a madman. Raheem was clearly too immature. The primary problem with the Glazers ISN’T the firings, it’s the hirings. They should keep their hands out of football matters, and leave everything up to Jason Licht going forward, or hire a team president with a background in football to keep the Glazers out. Starting with the firing of Dungy, every coaching search has been a circus situation. The Glazers always want to swing for the fences with a splash move, instead of making sound football decisions. They suck. It would be nice to develop some continuity – let’s hope Koetter’s teams perform well enough to earn him more than 2 years, because this rollercoaster of suckitude has turned most Bucs fans into perpetual cynics.
January 24th, 2016 at 2:29 pm
Black Monday should be called Trump Monday’s.
January 24th, 2016 at 2:38 pm
Bottom line is that the NFL is a business and it’s consortium of owners are highly competitive business persons.
They pay big money on contracts and expect a meaningful return.
It’s not about race, nor patience, nor coach speak. It’s about tackling and touchdowns. Always was. Always will be.
The wins weren’t coming and the proposed solutions were deemed improbable. Simple as that.
January 24th, 2016 at 3:20 pm
@Mike Johnson,
“All you have to do is look at the history of this years playoff teams.”
Sounds good when you say it fast.
Have you looked at the history of these teams?
Denver Broncos fired John Fox after posting a 46-18 record in 4 years. Making the playoffs in all 4 years and the Super Bowl in 1. I’m pretty sure Bucs fans would love that dismal performance.
Panthers were about to fire Ron Rivera in 2013 after an 0-2 start, but they went on a winning streak that earned him a reprieve. He has been there 5 years. Not exactly an eternity.
Arizona Cardinals have Bruce Arians who is on his 3rd year. Again not exactly considered a long tenure.
So other than Belichick, what are we supposed to be seeing by looking at this years playoff teams history?
January 24th, 2016 at 3:25 pm
Dungy and Billick still carry flip phones.
January 24th, 2016 at 3:31 pm
@DB55,
You don’t?
😎
January 24th, 2016 at 4:00 pm
I missed the presser where Dungy complained about Schiano getting fired. Firing Dungy, Morris, Schiano and Smith are 4 of the best moves the Glazer’s ever made. Hiring has been the problem. Lovie should have been fired after his first year. Yes, he sucked that bad, Tony.
January 24th, 2016 at 4:44 pm
This falls in the ‘consider the source’ category. As a former fired Bucs HC that is BFF with the most recent fired Bucs incompetent HC he should recuse himself from further public on-the-record commentary in regards to this matter. Tony Dungy’s opinion is veritably useless.
January 24th, 2016 at 4:45 pm
““And then you’ve got to let the plan play out, because that’s what people don’t do in this league.”
For me his key phrase in this quote is “you’ve got to let the plan play out”
Let the plan play out. In a 5 year deal with a coach is the contract the “plan”?
Or is it the product on the field that puts but$ in the stadium seat$ with $everal cold beverage$ of your choice in hand, wearing their team$ NFL gear is this part of the plan? It is a business after all right? Plans should be fluid, and adjustable, while maintaining a sound structure.
We all know that we need to work to build a winning culture here in Tampa Bay. I agree with Mr Dungy. On finding your philosophy and staying the course to make that happen. Defensively or Offensively for me it really matters if we are winners season in and season out. Being better than .500 every year. Made somewhat easier if the coaching staff is stable and successful enough to not require change at this key position. We have not had that In Tampa Bay in several, several, several coaches. I said when Mr. L. Smith was hired that we can not expect to be successful, if we change head coaches every two seasons. We have tried this plan, and that plan has not yet brought success.
We do now have a promising QB, a improving Oline, WR, good LB, DT, a GM who has experience has learned from some of the top Coaches, GM’s, and scouting staffs in the NFL. A new Head Coach in Mr. Kotter. Who has a lifetime of coaching experience to bring in to our need and desire for cultural stability built thru success on the field.
My fingers are crossed this plan works, and they are getting cramped from to much typing.
Off my soapbox..
Go Bucs!
January 24th, 2016 at 7:10 pm
Buc1987 Says:
January 24th, 2016 at 1:20 pm
loggedontosay Says:
January 24th, 2016 at 1:12 pm
Buc1987 Says:
January 24th, 2016 at 11:47 am
LargoBuc….I was truly depressed during the days after black Monday until Lovie was fired.
Disclaimer : Black Monday has nothing to do with race.
“I read your post and race did not come to my mind, but it came to yours.”
Yes but if you were on this site enough since Lovie has been fired the race card gets dropped left and right. Even the mere mention of the word black NEEDS a disclaimer these days. Especially in today’s America. 2 years ago folks were considering doing away with the words Black Friday because it sounded too racist and that’s NO lie. This is the America we live in. So every time I mention Lovie Smith in a bad light, that disclaimer WILL follow and for good reason. Seeing how the race card has been thrown at me more than once on here when referring to Lovie. If Joe tells me to stop then I’ll drop the disclaimer. This is not the first time I’ve used the disclaimer and it won’t be the last, so long as we have the race card droppers on this site.
Knowing that it is a sensitive term, likely to be taken offensively, you still chose to you that language auspiciously and follow the comment with no pun intended.
January 24th, 2016 at 7:52 pm
Heh!! Race whoring on JBF during the incompetent Lovie Smith era?
Whaaaa???
January 24th, 2016 at 9:09 pm
Buccaneers Says:
January 24th, 2016 at 1:32 pm
1987- You really should quit it with this race stuff. You made yourself look really foolish in the other article. Just knock it off man.
If you want to reply please do so on the other article I mentioned “it was a sham”
People come on here to read sports and you are turning it into something nasty. Let’s try not to litter every Bucs page with your uneducated racial ideas.
______________________________________________________________
Agree 100%.
January 24th, 2016 at 9:37 pm
I don’t give a rat’s ass what any of you think. I was called a racist on one thread a week ago for no apparent reason what-so-ever. Just 4 days ago I was called a bigot for no reason what-so-ever. So the disclaimer stays. Whether you like it or not.
I suppose you have no problem with someone calling you a racist when it’s not warranted, but I do. If you guys don’t like it then CUT the crap yourselves.
I’m the victim, not you. Blame the race card fans they’re the problem, and while you’re at it welcome to America. America where we have freedom of speech. That is of course unless some people don’t like what you have to say, then you get shouted down. Waaa cry me a river.
I’m a nice guy…most of the time. I type rapid fast, so fast that I could rival the best secretary in the world. So when I’m typing and I type the words Black Monday, I have to stop myself for a second to ponder whether or not someone that has no idea what Black Monday means might take it as a racist term. Sorry it’s not an excuse to type the disclaimer, it’s just that I’ve been labeled a racist for less.
Do ya get my drift?
January 24th, 2016 at 9:48 pm
Okay I’ll drop it for now, but as soon as I see anyone and not just me being called a racist when it’s not warranted the disclaimer goes RIGHT back up.
So you fans that do it and you know who you are. Knock the crap off, please.
January 24th, 2016 at 10:45 pm
Bucs 1987
1 thing you need to learn is don’t generalize; I am black and agree with the Lovie firing. Not everyone was using what you called the race card and by the way what is that.
What you also should learn; what may not seem offensive to you, could very well be offensive to others. Case in point: Black Friday is offensive to Black people because it is a reminder of the cruelty of slavery since it was the day that many slaves were sold like property and separated from their families. Or maybe Black people are tired of the subliminal message of every thing bad being called black. And making a statement then clarifying it as not being racist; makes you look very racist. Think about these things if you don’t want to be called a bigot in the future. Just stating that you don’t think the firing was racially motivated is enough. The Glazers’ track record makes that easily defendable. 3 black coaches overall and the previous coach who happened to be white was fired after just 2 years also; furthermore, the coach before him who happened to be black was given 3 years. Defending the Bucs’ actions by trying to minimize the effect of legitimately offensive terms doesn’t put yourself in a good light.
January 24th, 2016 at 11:21 pm
DallasBuc Says:
January 24th, 2016 at 7:52 pm
Heh!! Race whoring on JBF during the incompetent Lovie Smith era?
Whaaaa???
What are you talking about dumb, dumb?
January 25th, 2016 at 10:11 am
^^^Um, race whoring. What is it you now don’t understand?
And I’m the dumb one?…