Alarming Win-Loss Mark For Lovie
January 4th, 2016
Only Leeman Bennett worse.
Bucs fans are irate, and Joe understands.
It’s partially from the pounding morning-after headache that won’t go away after eating Advil following the seal-clubbing the Stinking Panthers performed on the Bucs to end the 2015 season.
With the season’s end, Joe decided see how Lovie Smith’s first two seasons compared to other Bucs coaches.
Folks, it is grim.
Only the notorious Leeman Bennett lost more games in his first two seasons as Tampa Bay head coach. Yes, Lovie has the second-worst start of any Bucs coach in franchise history.
Joe hopes Lovie got America’s Quarterback, Jameis Winston, one helluva Christmas present because Jameis saved his job. Below the list of what all Bucs coaches did their through their first two seasons leading the Bucs, per Pro-Football-Reference.com:
Coach/record after two seasons
Leeman Bennett 4-28
Lovie 8-24
Sam Wyche 10-22
Ray Perkins 9-22
Greg Schiano 11-21
Raheem Morris 13-19
Father Dungy 17-17 (includes one playoff win and one playoff loss)
John McKay 2-16
Richard Williamson 4-15
Chucky 22-13 (includes two playoff wins and Super Bowl title)
That’s ugly. As Joe has stated, there is no way one can spin that Lovie has done a good job overall as coach. He hasn’t.
However, in the most important area, one so weighted it isn’t funny, and one highly important to the shot-callers at One Buc Palace, Lovie has been perfect. And that is NFL transition of Jameis.
If you don’t think Lovie was responsible for Jameis and his success, that’s fine. You can go back to your chair in the corner, face the wall and resume your conversation with The Great Gazoo.
January 4th, 2016 at 8:01 am
FIRE LOVIE….”SIMPLE AS THAT”…!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
January 4th, 2016 at 8:05 am
When did McKay get hired? I thought the total would be 28 games
January 4th, 2016 at 8:09 am
I’m not convinced he even wanted to draft Winston. He did leave Koeter alone in his development if you really want to give him credit for something.
January 4th, 2016 at 8:10 am
The darkest hour is before the dawn….
January 4th, 2016 at 8:10 am
Good lord; Ray Perkins had a better record than Lovie and that was with Culverhouse undermining his team with the inability to spend any cash on the ****ing team. Its a sad day in Bucland when one realizes that you have to go back to the Creamscicle years to find a coach who put 2 whole years together that were worse than Lovie in one Leeman Bennett who was quite the site roaming the sideline alongside Mr C in his obnoxious Tangerine Blazer that Jesper Parnevik, Don Cherry and Craig Sager thought was a tad too loud to wear (the late Dick Williamson does not count as he only had one complete 3-13 season as buc Skipper)…. Its time to quit giving the Glazer lads a pass Joe; the boys have put this franchise into the ground ever since they took over operations from Malcolm….. Should Lovie get fired? maybe or at least force him to revamp his D and special teams but like Joe I think this is unlikely and he will get one more chance to get this club over the hump and out of the ****ing cellar.
January 4th, 2016 at 8:11 am
Yes, a long list of failure. I checked out emotionally after we lost our 7th game this season and found peace. It had been nice to not waste my energy on the debacle that is the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. Until next year.
January 4th, 2016 at 8:15 am
There’s an awful lot of coaches out there that drafted franchise QB’s and eventually lost their jobs. The only reason, I repeat, the only reason Lovie most likely will keep his job is that of continuity for Winston.
If Koetter starts getting serious looks for head coaching positions I would not be surprised to see Lovie fired and Koetter promoted.
January 4th, 2016 at 8:18 am
And later today Lovie will be handing out his participation trophies.
January 4th, 2016 at 8:21 am
The Glazers know that their future lies with Winston…..they will do everything to protect him including keeping Koetter…..but that will end once Winston is fully developed.
The Press needs to start holding Lovie accountable….I think they have largely given him a pass…..and that needs to stop right now.
I think this is one reason why fans are so frustrated….the don’t have a representative when it comes to holding Lovie’s feet to the fire.
January 4th, 2016 at 8:26 am
Jaboo is the best QB I’ve ever seen…when the game is out of reach and the opposing defense has fallen asleep.
America’s Garbage Time QB
January 4th, 2016 at 8:26 am
@Tampabaybucfan
I post this yesterday morning, but explains why the free pass
“Why are the two treated so differently??? I have been doing a little investigating and found out that there is tremendous pressure on the media to not talk bad about lovie!!! There are tons of old star players and work associates of lovie from the old days and some Tampa-2-ites in the area that have insulated lovie from criticism!!! I have named this group the Tampa2-mafia!!! While they can influence the local media, they will not be able to stop the real fans!!!!!”
January 4th, 2016 at 8:28 am
@TBBF
Agree that #3 is the straw that stirs the drink. As long as he is happy with Lovie, Lovie gets another year.
Sorry Realist and Dallas Buc and all the other Lovie haters but your opinion is not going to carry any weight in this decision.
No doubt though despite what anybody says Lovie’s seat has to be getting warm.
He HAS to win next year or else
January 4th, 2016 at 8:30 am
Realist.
Lovie may be a bad coach..Schiano clearly lost his team and demonstrated all the qualities you claim to despise in Lovie!
We’re about to find out just how good or bad Lovie is. I understand those who want to fire him, what I do not understand is anybody who thinks Schiano did a better job. Failure is failure!
January 4th, 2016 at 8:32 am
@stpeteBucfan
Or else what, More empty threats at the end of next year!!!!! More of ” of next year will really count”!!!!!
@joe
while you and the sheep are celebrating another lovie year, some of the sheep are starting to ask why the champagne is flat and taste sour!!!!!!!
January 4th, 2016 at 8:35 am
unfortunately, the glazers aren’t thinking about replacing lovie.
January 4th, 2016 at 8:38 am
The improvement to six wins should feel better that it does. The dreadful 0-4 collapse at the end leaves an awful taste in my mouth.
Our defense is putrid. Stats aside, there is no worse defense to watch. Other QBs could barely play better even if no one were covering receivers. You hardly ever see any passes broken up – we have to rely on bad throws or drops.
While we definitely made strides on offense, the defense needs to be blown up.
January 4th, 2016 at 8:38 am
The Glazers will stay the course and we will have 3 to 4 wins next year.
January 4th, 2016 at 8:38 am
@ Realist
That very well could be the reason why he gets a pass…..was the reason he was hired in the first place…..but it is the nature of a good press not to succumb to that type of pressure eventually. I suspect that there will be one or two that will break away from the docile pack.
I am not happy with Lovie’s performance and if he isn’t fired, he at least needs to be held accountable.
Joe is right that Winston is the key going forward….at least we have that.
January 4th, 2016 at 8:40 am
Joe needs to pull the plug on lightningbuc. He has something stuck in his hole and he can’t see past his blind hatred.
January 4th, 2016 at 8:51 am
*another season of Lovie = ANOTHER WASTED YEAR!!!!!
January 4th, 2016 at 8:58 am
McKay was actually 2-26, going 0-14 and 2-12 in 1976 and 1977, respectively. But that was an expansion team filled with cast offs from other teams. McKay had four consecutive excellent drafts, building the team from scratch and reaching the NFC title game in 1979.
January 4th, 2016 at 9:01 am
Those other Bucs coaches who had terrible starts never got it right at the QB position. Even Raheem Morris didn’t get it right with The Coney Island Thrasher. As for the rest of you slack-jawed mouth breathers who keep crying for Lovie to be fired, let it go. There isn’t one serious NFL writer or publication that has Lovie Smith’s name as a coach who will be fired or even on the hot seat for the NFL’s version of Black Monday.
January 4th, 2016 at 9:04 am
Can somebody at Lovies presser please ask him why his defense has not been able to defend a slant pass all year long. Not only do the players need to be held accountable but the head coach does as well.
January 4th, 2016 at 9:07 am
“lightningbuc Says:
January 4th, 2016 at 8:26 am
Jaboo is the best QB I’ve ever seen…when the game is out of reach and the opposing defense has fallen asleep.
America’s Garbage Time QB”
Glad to see you are still butthurt about the draft 8 months later. Everyone knows the problems on the team are not related to Jameis and he will be here a long, long time. Keep crying, I laugh every time.
January 4th, 2016 at 9:10 am
Started the season by losing 42-14 in a game that wasn’t that close. Ended the season by losing 38-10 in a game that wasn’t that close. We spent two seasons in last place under Schiano, we spent two seasons in last place under Lovie. The allegedly great offense we had this year? Meh, it was like the Tampa 2 version of offense, moved the ball between the 20’s, not a lot of TDs. The defense? A total disgrace that needs a minimum of 6 new starters next year and maybe as many as 8.
Right now feels more or less the exact same as it did after 32 games of Schiano: We have a coach who will never contribute to our teams success. Our best case scenario is he stays out of the way. And now we have a coach coming back who becomes a lame duck with a 0-3 start. We feel as far away now as we did when Schiano was fired.
January 4th, 2016 at 9:17 am
Look around the NFL and you’ll see it’s nearly a league wide epidemic. Even the Patriots couldn’t defend the slant pass against the Dolphins yesterday.
January 4th, 2016 at 9:17 am
Thought it very curious to see Fox showing Jason Licht on the field yesterday. Is he always on the field. Did you catch Licht’s reaction to Donovon’s back to back holding penalties? Classic. All he could do was close his eyes.
I hadn’t seen Jason on the field nbefore, at least they haven’t shown it on TV. Was just wondering if there was more to it than that?
January 4th, 2016 at 9:27 am
@ D-Rome
What a loser mentality you have. Your bar is so low. Lovie Smith is garbage. How many playoff appearances does Lovie have in the last 9 years? One. That’s right…one. Is that good?
January 4th, 2016 at 9:30 am
Team folds under pressure, always has except when they had playmakers in the defense that wouldn’t break down like this.
John Lynch and Ronde Barber knew the tendencies of different offenses and could play the ball. These secondary guys don’t even know where the ball is.
Someone just said how well the offense moves the ball between the 20’s. Correct, but they don’t punch it in enough. Tight end position has been very weak. Braces made a few good plays in the end zone, ASJ doesn’t fight for the ball. He didn’t even attempt to get his hands on a Winston fastball in the end zone yesterday. Not a perfect ball, a tough catch, but not even attempting to catch it is horrible.
As much as I hated Chucky’s disdain for throwing the ball deep, an offense with quick receivers that know how to play in a west coast quick hitting passes is what this team needs.
One of the reasons Winston got hit so much is he isn’t in tune with his receivers and has to wait too long for them to get open. Evans is good coming back for the ball and making good sideline catches but doesn’t know how to reroute himself to adjust to a slant pattern so Jameis can get it out of his hands quicker.
There are some good pieces on this team. They need some more experienced secondary ballhawks and receivers. Nickerson and Quarles were both great at dropping back into coverage. Even the journeymen players Chucky’s brought in on the cheap like Ken Dilger and Kennan McCardell were smart targets that knew how to,get open and were reliable.
I would gladly see some players on this team that can make the blue collar plays the personnel on the team can’t make now.
January 4th, 2016 at 9:32 am
Oh, if only Malcolm was still running this team…………….
January 4th, 2016 at 9:32 am
D-Rome Says:
January 4th, 2016 at 9:17 am
Can somebody at Lovies presser please ask him why his defense has not been able to defend a slant pass all year long. Not only do the players need to be held accountable but the head coach does as well.
Look around the NFL and you’ll see it’s nearly a league wide epidemic. Even the Patriots couldn’t defend the slant pass against the Dolphins yesterday.
If this is true…why don’t we employ the slant pass?…….I guess we’ll have to ask Koetter….or the press should….at least he will give an answer.
January 4th, 2016 at 9:36 am
D-Rome Says:
January 4th, 2016 at 9:17 am
Look around the NFL and you’ll see it’s nearly a league wide epidemic. Even the Patriots couldn’t defend the slant pass against the Dolphins yesterday.
________________________________________________________________
Well I gotta ask since you’ve appeared to have taken this task from OneLove: How do Lovie Smith’s nuts taste like? Must be pretty salty today no doubt
January 4th, 2016 at 9:37 am
Somebody on here put it very well the other day; mathematically they did triple their win total, but last year this team was better than a 2 win team and they tanked. So i wouldn’t jump for joy on our level of improvement.
If you can’t scheme for a game, the least you can do instill discipline in your players. Maybe this isn’t a lovie problem as we have seen numerous coaches fail in this department here. Possibly an onfield leadership problem, but to me accountability falls on the HC here.
The list of things that Lovie has done poorly far outweighs the positives after 2 years (what are they?, developed a QB??? come on). The team has shown limited improvement over 2 years. I think he needs to go. If not, i think this will be the year i finally “cut the cord” on my directv.
January 4th, 2016 at 9:40 am
89 wins
85 losses
Given what he has had to fix here, he still has an overall winning record. Keep him.
January 4th, 2016 at 9:42 am
It’s clear that Winston believes in Lovie.
January 4th, 2016 at 9:43 am
If it’s so hard to defend the slant, WTF don’t we throw it more often? Maybe crybaby evans can catch that simple pass.
January 4th, 2016 at 9:46 am
You know what is alarming….the Bucs corners have a grand total of 2 interceptions for the year.
January 4th, 2016 at 9:50 am
Without stability at QB, HC and GM, our Bucs will be continuously rebuilding. Lovie and Licht inherited a team with only a handful of quality players. Have they made a few mistakes filling the roster? Yes, but they also have drafted much better than past regimes. It’s going to take more than one more offseason to fill the remaining holes.
January 4th, 2016 at 9:58 am
@ st. Pete
It’s not that hard to understand why some can say Schiano did a better job than Lovie if you simply look at facts instead of fabrications.
(1) record vs strength of schedule…advantage Schiano
(2) I keep hearing the players hated Schiano, but go back through articles both here and other Bucs news sites and that’s not actually true (at least publicly printed). I read complaints from Michael Bennett, Preston Parker, and some practice squad scrub Schiano cut, but there was also praise from guys like Davin Joseph, Dashon Goldson, and GMC. In fact it seemed like the most criticism came from ex-Bucs (Sapp!) who insisted the scheme was holding players back from having breakout sack performances. Odd how guys like Sapp, Barber, and Brooks who all had personal connections to Lovie got a lot quieter after seeing two years of this defense actually looking as bad and worse than Schiano’s
(3) Lovie has had a lot more control in the player selection and direction of this team than most any other HC in Tampa. To be only better than Leenan Bennett in his tenure should scare the hell out of Bucs fans.
January 4th, 2016 at 10:03 am
How can anyone see this and support bringing him back, RAHEEM MORRIS HAD A BETTER RECORD
January 4th, 2016 at 10:03 am
He cant win games but he sucked us into the #1 pick so lets rejoice and keep him for 10 more years!! LMAO. Love this idiotic mentality.
January 4th, 2016 at 10:06 am
Cant believe there are fans who actually want to see more of this crap. It’s just pathetic. I guess they like seeing their team get spanked on a weekly basis. “True fans” right there.
January 4th, 2016 at 10:20 am
Giving Lovie credit for Jameis development is laughable.
Every head coach has +’s and -‘s with regards to their coaching abilities; Lovie’s ‘supposed’ specialty was his “defensive prowess” and leadership ability to command his team’s respect/discipline. He has zero credibility with regards to developing a QB, an offense, or an offensive line. In fact those things were considered negatives of his when he came to Tampa ala Dungy. Dungy didn’t make Peyton Manning into Peyton Manning, no more than Lovie is responsible for Jameis’s natural skills & Koetter’s coaching/development of him into a viable pro QB. If anything Lovie inhibited Jameis’s development by not getting him a reliable slot WR to start the year, preventing him from being more aggressive in games where we had leads or timeouts but we chose to run out the clock instead.
Now let’s look at Lovie’s supposed strengths:
The defense is significantly worse than when he took over in every possible category, metric, and “eye test”. As for “leadership” and commanding respect of his players; the team was the most penalized in Buc’s history. The players loved & respected Lovie so much they repeatedly took personnel fouls and selfish penalties throughout the entire year.
How can any sane person honestly offer up any argument based in reality that the team would have been any different if it was coached by Lovie Smith or by a parking cone on Himes. Actually, I’d take the parking cone because at least it wouldn’t get in Jameis’s way and it wouldn’t be married to a now defunct cover 2 defensive scheme. #ParkingCone2016bucsHeadCoach
January 4th, 2016 at 10:20 am
Bonzai…when was the last time you saw a corner actually defend (break up a pass) from the opposing qb. It’s a rarity on this team. 70% completion is unacceptable. But your boy Lovie says it’s a misleading stat.
January 4th, 2016 at 10:32 am
@Bonzai
lovie’s career record is 89 wins and 87 losses!!!!
January 4th, 2016 at 10:35 am
So grotesque comments is all you have left instead of a reasonable discussion?
My support for Lovie Smith has far more to do with consistency than it does for any admiration for the man or his accomplishments over the past two seasons.
Since you are incapable of understanding I’ll make it simple. This team is simply not talented enough on defense which is evident by the record number of penalties. If you hire a new coach there will be a complete overhaul of the roster again. That is what almost always happens when a new coach is hired. An overhaul of the roster will get this team nowhere next season. Just look at the perennial losers in the NFL and you’ll see they have had a tremendous amount of inconsistency and instability. A much needed DE isn’t going to show up out of nowhere just because there is a new head coach. You guys act like we’re a head coach away from being 12-4 next year. Building consistency and a winning organization is a process and the Bucs haven’t had any consistency since Gruden was fired. Hell, really since the Super Bowl, Gruden never had consistency in the roster either.
I’m finished discussing Lovie Smith. Too bad for you but he’s coming back next year. I’m glad the Glazers aren’t listening to the slack-jawed mouth breathers around here for a change.
January 4th, 2016 at 11:03 am
That might be the casae D-Rome and it might not. The offense is young for the most part and have a QB that almost anyone would love to work with. You can always retain Koeter in whatever aspect of his choosing to retain continuity on that side of the ball. Pay him more if need be. The defense and special teams needs more talent no matter If Lovie stays or goes. But this team easily has enough talent to have 8 or 9 wins with this schedule. Lovie is simply not doing a good enough job and is deserving of being fired. Not a single thing he’s done besides the draft has worked. 8-24 record. How can you defend him with nothing more than a continuity excuse?
January 4th, 2016 at 11:04 am
besides the draft & Koeter I should say*
January 4th, 2016 at 11:06 am
D-Rome Says:
January 4th, 2016 at 10:35 am
A bunch of nonsense Lovie defending and slurping of his nuts
______________________________________________________________
Don’t use the continuity argument crap, it is an atrocious argument. Because if continuity is your argument, why not bring back the entire defense? We want continuity after all right? Oh, what’s that? You’ll say we don’t have enough talent there? Funny, because we don’t have enough talent at coach either. Yet somehow we gotta get new defensive players, but the coach is above reproach and must be given more time, even as he’s proven to be one of the worst coaches in the league.
Fans like you need to be gone. Fans that enjoy fantasizing over what draft picks we can add, about what future FA busts we can flush millions in cap space down the drain for. You don’t want to win, it’s more fun for a fan like you to live in the hope zone. We need loser fans like you gone, go cheer for the Jags if you like continuity.
January 4th, 2016 at 11:20 am
I’m all for continuity…as long as it’s continuity of what is working: Thus promote Koetter to head coach, kick Lovie/Frazier to the curb and bring an experienced defensive coordinator who understands the league has changed significantly since Lovie backed into a Super Bowl over a decade ago. Get a guy who realizes that teams need to be able to play man to man defense in order to thrive in a pass happy accurate QB league that promotes offense through rule changes. Bring in a defensive coordinator who is willing to coach around the talent he has to maximize what is available instead of refusing to change his methods at the detriment of W/L’s. Bring someone who maybe JUST MAYBE might be able to make a half time adjustment or scheme a gameplan where you can say after a game “Damn we really exploited a weakness of that team or damn what a game plan team X couldn’t do anything vs our scheme”. I’m all for THAT continuity.
January 4th, 2016 at 12:29 pm
It’s that Lovie name, the calm reserved lovable teddy bear who has pulled the wool over some Bucs fan eyes hiding his incompetence. I guess Lovie laughs all the way to the bank and equally at gullible and supporting fans.
January 4th, 2016 at 12:33 pm
LOVIE SMITH WILL BE FIRED THIS WEEK !!!!!!!
January 4th, 2016 at 1:58 pm
all fans need to do is watch the post game conference with jameis….even jameis said this team has a loser mentality and has no heart….how can you put that on the coach?…people want to compare lovie and schiano but there is no comparison regardless of how you try to cut it…lovie progressed and schiano regressed end of discussion, no way around it….this team lacks talent and heart…with that said, if lovie starts the season 0-4 or finishes the season with less than 10 wins and the team still leads the league in penalties and playing undisciplined football then lovie needs to be replaced…this draft, FA and offseason will make or break lovie…GO BUCS!!!
January 4th, 2016 at 2:16 pm
813bucboi Says:
January 4th, 2016 at 1:58 pm
all fans need to do is watch the post game conference with jameis….even jameis said this team has a loser mentality and has no heart….how can you put that on the coach
________________________________________________________________
Better question: How can you NOT put that on the coach? Think of where you work; now think if you have a boss who is dull, who doesn’t punish poor work or horrible mistakes, who makes decisions to always be safe and never take chances, and who occasionally rewards poor or immature performances. How is that not going to produce a loser culture?
To be fair to Lovie it was already in place before he got here, but he’s done nothing to change it, and he basically needs a rookie QB to do that job for him. That’s pretty pathetic, and not indicative of a strong leader at all. In fact it strongly indicates a follower, not a leader.
January 4th, 2016 at 2:55 pm
“people want to compare lovie and schiano but there is no comparison regardless of how you try to cut it…lovie progressed and schiano regressed end of discussion, no way around it….this team lacks talent and heart…”
@813
I guess when you win 2 games in your first stint with a team it’s far easier to claim “progress” in year two (that is if you actually consider 6 wins including a 4 game slide vs one of the easiest schedules in the entire NFL progress) than when you come in, clean Rah’s house party team atmosphere, win 7 games as a first time NFL HC. 2013’s season was a perfect storm of things that I’m not sure a hall of fame HC could have made a winning season out if. None of us can prove otherwise, but I truly believe Schiano accomplished more with less than Lovie has and we’d have been playing meaPerhaps year three under Lovie is a different story, but so far most of us have seen nothing to indicate there’s much hope of Lovie breaking even the 8 win threshold next year.
January 4th, 2016 at 2:57 pm
“people want to compare lovie and schiano but there is no comparison regardless of how you try to cut it…lovie progressed and schiano regressed end of discussion, no way around it….this team lacks talent and heart…”
@813
I guess when you win 2 games in your first stint with a team it’s far easier to claim “progress” in year two (that is if you actually consider 6 wins including a 4 game slide vs one of the easiest schedules in the entire NFL progress) than when you come in, clean Rah’s house party team atmosphere, win 7 games as a first time NFL HC. 2013’s season was a perfect storm of things that I’m not sure a hall of fame HC could have made a winning season out if. None of us can prove otherwise, but I truly believe Schiano accomplished more with less than Lovie has and we’d have been playing meaningful January games had he still been here coaching. Perhaps year three under Lovie is a different story, but so far most of us have seen nothing to indicate there’s much hope of Lovie breaking even the 8 win threshold next year.
January 4th, 2016 at 2:59 pm
Crap…sorry for the double post. Disregard the first one (or both of you don’t like what I said)