Jameis Vs. Marcus
December 12th, 2015
PFF talks Jameis in a video.
Joe has been rough on the numbercrunchers over at Pro Football Focus, and for good reason.
Hey, document every mistackle and dropped pass you want, that’s fine. But when those keyboard warriors start grading players, that’s when the train runs off the tracks.
But Joe also has tried to keep an open mind about that outfit. So Joe has to give the Pro Football Focus crowd props for putting out a video with analysis that isn’t rank statgeekery.
In the video below, the father of the site, Neil Horsnby, and investor Cris Collingsworth, sit down to reasonably analyze and talk common sense football chatter on America’s Quarterback, Bucs signal-caller Jameis Winston, and Titans quarterback Marcus Mariota.
It’s actually a thoughtful piece. No statistical gibberish at all.
Two takes Joe found interesting:
1. Hornsby says Mariota looked so fantastic against Tampa Bay in Week One because the Bucs didn’t cover anyone.
2. The hard sell of noted offensive guru Father Dungy, pitching Marcus Mariota to the Bucs. Joe thanks his lucky stars every night Bucs AC/DC-loving general manager Jason Licht and Lovie Smith did not listen.
Watch the video below. Really, it’s a good piece.
December 12th, 2015 at 8:56 am
Anyone who looks at the stats would conclude that Mariota is having a better season than Winston. Watching the games tells a different story. I haven’t seen every Titans game but I’ve seen a few. Watching the Titans offense reminds me of the RG3 offense. I’ve seen Winston complete passes that Mariota wouldn’t even dare to even throw. I would take Jameis over Marcus every time, but I think Marcus will be right up there, too. For me, Winstin just has that Mojo.
December 12th, 2015 at 8:56 am
PFF is the worst football website…..
December 12th, 2015 at 9:01 am
Good Lord I wish people would get off of this Winston vs Mariota kick. They’re different QBs on different teams and both have had excellent rookie years thus far. Comparisons serve no useful purpose. But the Bucs would’ve won in the draft by picking either one of them … from a long-term perspective.
It’s more about which QB qualities our team needs more right now. Personally I think Jameis is a better fit for the Bucs right now, particularly because of his seemingly more aggressive leadership style. The Bucs needed some of that ‘rah-rah, let’s kick-em-in-the-butt’ stuff and Jameis is providing it. But players only respond to that as long as you can produce at a high level … and win. And Jameis has been doing that to.
December 12th, 2015 at 9:05 am
Defense, I concur.
December 12th, 2015 at 9:06 am
Collingsworth at the end says Lovie is bringing Jameis along slowly implying the Bucs are playing conservative offense and strong defense? This is hardly the case if you didn’t know any better you would think MM was the football savant and the Bucs were spoon feeding Jameis the offense not the other way around.
December 12th, 2015 at 9:10 am
We are spoon feeding him. He can just take bigger bites.
December 12th, 2015 at 9:12 am
Stan, you’re correct, sir. I’ve never seen a Bucs QB throw the ball downfield as much as Jameis. They throw everything at him and he doesn’t flinch.
December 12th, 2015 at 9:13 am
Winston ain’t Captian Checkdown, that’s for sure.
December 12th, 2015 at 9:34 am
Collingswirth is either lying or hasn’t watched any Bucs games. Cosell wrote that it is very difficult to ask a rookie to throw downfield as much as the Bucs are asking Jameis.
December 12th, 2015 at 9:43 am
Winston vs. Mariota should be irrelevant at this point. I think Mariota would have been a fine pick for the Bucs but I don’t believe for a second Mariota would have single-handedly changed the culture of the Bucs like Winston has in one season. No way.
Gee, where are all those Winston detractors now? I know, they’ve already changed their usernames.
December 12th, 2015 at 9:46 am
Defense I completely disagree.
December 12th, 2015 at 10:10 am
that was the worst, going by that vid you’d think Lovie was protecting Jameis and not allowing him to take any risks when in reality it is the exact opposite.
December 12th, 2015 at 10:17 am
Don’t no what’s worse women, side line reporters, women in the booth. The women on Sports center. Or a Brit trying to analyze American Football.
December 12th, 2015 at 10:32 am
Agree with Defenserules and DRome.
#3 was the major injection of all the best things into our locker room’s chemistry.
I’m neither a Lovie basher nor do I believe he’s ready for a final determination of his career, he’s just started part II. But I certainly believe that #3 is the MAJOR reason for our turnaround. I think given exactly the same tools as #3..IE if MM had come to the Bucs he too would have success on the field. What he would not have been able to do is change the culture of our team so quickly.
I think MM will gain more leadership skills and perhaps become like Bart Starr and other quiet leaders…but he would have never provided the SHOCK this franchise got from #3
This was the perfect marriage. The Bucs desperately needed #3 for all the obvious reasons…#3 needed the Bucs…a team committed to his TOTAL development with an incredible support group in place. Say what you want about Lovie his even temper and the way he deals with players has won their respect..he’s a calming influence…as is Koetter…and I can’t imagine a better coaching situation for #3 So it’s been a real win-win and fun to watch.
December 12th, 2015 at 10:32 am
Might want to bite the bullet. It’s going to be that way for maybe 15 years. 🙁
December 12th, 2015 at 10:33 am
I was a MM supporter vs JW because I lived in Oregon and was exposed to this wonderful athlete. The offense at Oregon was incredibly complex and he mastered it.
I just wasn’t 100% on him. His demeanor on the sideline was shy and standoffish. He reminded me of Vinny Testeverde sitting on the end of the bench.
The reason I doubted MM was that he was not a leader verbally. One game against Stanford, Oregon was having trouble moving the ball, MM broke out of the backfield and raced down the sideline with the “Black Mamba” side by side. Instead of the BM blocking for him, they raced each other side by side to the finish line.
MM was caught from behind, kept out of the endzone, resulting in a loss and elimination from a run at the National Championship.
Epic fail, on so many levels.
Why didn’t MM tell his team mate to just freaking block. They could celebrate in the end zone together in a couple seconds. I think if Jameis and Devonte Freeman were in the same situation, JW would have commanded his team mate to obstruct the opponent for even a half second.
I was turned off by JW’s pregame antics in the locker room. I thought there were phoney. I was wrong, he is a genuine goofball, and his team mates truly do love him.
I believe we are seeing an example of once in a life time leadership that as a card carrying pessimist, I didn’t believe existed. I was wrong.
I am now a totally born again optimist on the Jameis bandwagon and I think we will have an incredible ride for the upcoming seasons and the Buc fans truly deserve this!
December 12th, 2015 at 10:54 am
Jameis with the clutch performer of the week award. Just another accolaide on his way to rookie of the year!!!
December 12th, 2015 at 11:04 am
Winston is the right QB for the Bucs….
Let’s face it…..both QBs are doing well and both have tremendous potential.
There’s no need to put Mariota down to promote Jameis…..Jameis does fine on his own.
Who on this site wouldn’t want to have Mariota as our backup…..or running the wildcat with him?
December 12th, 2015 at 11:14 am
Mariota and Winston are both having success, Mariota is much more efficient, call it “dink and dunk” wtf ever all I know is the kid has a darn nice release, is accurate, and has thrown more tds than Winston, one could also argue that Mariota has nothing to work with. Does Mariota have a pro bowl reciver like we do? No. Does he have the second leading rusher in the NFL behind him? No. Does he have another darn fine reciver in Mike Evans? No. How bout arguably one of the best offensive coordinators in the game??? Nope. Mariota would be killing it in Tampa right now with the weapons we have. Open your eyes people. Give credit when it’s due, Mariota is whooping Winston. Winston is having an ok year, he started off Awful but he’s slowly improved. I like both these kids.
December 12th, 2015 at 11:37 am
Big deal. The Bucs and Titans should be excited with their picks. The teams that should be kicking themselves are the teams that didn’t suck enough to get into the top 2.
December 12th, 2015 at 11:39 am
@SupersamNobody every takes in consideration how many dropped passes the bucs have had this year, that effect winston stats. Bucs receivers hasn’t been playing to pro bowl standards.
December 12th, 2015 at 11:43 am
“Mariota is whooping Winston. Winston is having an ok year, he started off Awful but he’s slowly improved. I like both these kids.”
Troll
December 12th, 2015 at 11:46 am
SPBF hit the nail in the head!
Even if we lose the next 4 games, I’m still in cloud 9 with our team specially Licht & Lovie. They started this dream team.
All we need is time. The Lombardi will be welcome once again in Tampa Bay, baby!
Go Bucs!!!
December 12th, 2015 at 11:49 am
Supersam go to the titans message board and praise mariota. Whipping winston? You are as clueless as you ever have been and thats even after having the luxury of watching winston play. You say winston has better players than mariota. Thats BS because both teams were 2 win teams last year. Winston has the ability to make guys better around him like all the greats have done. He also makes the defense believe and perform better. Mariota is not that guy. He is a stat guy like our very own gerald mccoy. This team is performing better all the way around because of jameis you clueless mariota lover.
December 12th, 2015 at 11:52 am
Supersam, thank you for saying it, now I don’t have to. I think the Bucs finally have a franchise QB, but I think MM is going to be something special when it is all said and done, when the Titans build a good team around him, something JW already enjoys. MM has the top QBR in the NFL in the redzone, an area where many Teams struggle. He has done it with well below avg. talent, a testament to his skills, esp. his accuracy and sweet quick release.
December 12th, 2015 at 12:00 pm
We should play Ten. again next year in their crib.
In Winston, Martin, Koetter, Lovie & Licht I TRUST!!!
December 12th, 2015 at 12:02 pm
Correction: MM has the top passer rating in the redzone. 4th in QBR and is also the top rated against the blitz.
December 12th, 2015 at 12:02 pm
Mariota is hardly whipping Winston. Winston has more total TDs than Mariota. If Mariota played in Tampa, Dirk Koetter would have to simply his offense because Mariota is one of the worst in the NFL on passes over 20 yards.
December 12th, 2015 at 12:16 pm
Supersam Mariota and Winston are different QBs with different skill sets. Mariota is one of the worst in the league at deep passes or not taking sacks while under pressure. Meanwhile Winston grades out towards the top of the league in those areas. Our offense does not cater to MMs skill set which is quick accurate passing in the short to intermediate range and his ability to run.
And if u just wanna talk stats without watching games; Winston has more total TDs AND less turnovers.
The Bucs offense is top 3 in not going 3 and out; and top 9 i yardage. Not to mention that Winston is basically undefeated in close games when given a decent chance to win while Mariota is 2-4.
-Lost to Colts after failing to convert 2 pets to tie
-Lost to Bills down 1 with plenty of time on interception
-Lost to Oakland down 3 with plenty of time at mid field by throwing an interception
-Lost to Jags down 6 with over 2 minutes left because he dinked / dunked and wasted time and lost on sack taken on final play
Titans could be 5-7 win team with more clutch QB play
December 12th, 2015 at 12:17 pm
Don’t understand why people want to put the “Winston vs. Mariota” narrative to bed. The pick was most likely the most important pick in FRANCHISE HISTORY. Why wouldn’t we continue to compare the two in order to grade the pick?
December 12th, 2015 at 12:19 pm
@Supersam,
If you had three wheels you’d be a tricycle. You can play the hypothetical game all day long, but the bottom line is our QB is 6-6, and yours is 3-9 and got his coach fired. Spin things all you want, that’s all that matters in this league.
If you do want to play the hypothetical game, I’ll play along in this way: Mariota would be a terrible fit with this team. He likes to throw quick slants to smaller, quicker receivers, which if you don’t know we don’t have. He has been downright awful throwing the ball down the field. That shouldn’t be a surprise, because that was the big drawback for him in college. We love to do a 7 step drops to allow our monster receivers time to get open down the field. At what point has Mariota shown he can do that? He still looks incredibly uncomfortable in the pocket (which is common for all spread QB’s). Mariota likes to be in shotgun, which doesn’t allow the running back to get a head of steam before he gets the ball, which would be a terrible fit for Doug Martin. So you see, you can play hypothetical games with your man-crush, but your analysis is very lazy and football-ignorant. Then again, that’s pretty much is exactly what we all expect from you.
December 12th, 2015 at 12:21 pm
Mariota who? We got the tougher QB. The Titans got blase. Hats off to Licht and Lovie for making the right pick.
December 12th, 2015 at 12:27 pm
Mariota is very accurate…..on short passes. In fact, he’s probably one of the most accurate short yardage passers in the league. However, he is incredibly inaccurate on long passes. This isn’t me making it up, this is an absolute fact that can be backed up statistically. He is dead last in the NFL on passes that travel over 20 yards. He was terrible in college going deep as well. You guys probably didn’t see him play but a game or two in college, but living in Hawaii I saw most of his games. I always felt it was the result of his super compact release, but I’m no coach. Regardless, no one can site any evidence that he is a good down the field thrower. You go ahead and look at our skill position guys and let me know how in the hell you think they would be if they had a QB that couldn’t throw the ball down the field. Finally, you go ahead and tell me a successful QB in the modern era that can’t throw the deep ball. Alex Smith? I guess you could consider him successful. Wake me up when he wins a playoff game.
December 12th, 2015 at 12:34 pm
R.O. … Have to agree with your take on women in sports broadcasting. I don’t like it either. It is annoying to me. I don’t care about women’s opinion’s on mens sports. It is just useless chatter that adds nothing to the game imo.
December 12th, 2015 at 1:38 pm
I don’t know, it took me a little while, but I think I really like Jameis Winston.
December 12th, 2015 at 1:52 pm
Sorry if I don’t wear rose colored glasses, I call it like I see it. I like Winston, he’s what you call a “gamer”. He’s our quarterback and I’ll have to accept him, but Mariota in my opinion has had a better year and will probably win rookie of the year. Now if we’re talking long term it just depends, If Winston can continue to stay out of trouble off the field and continue to grow on the field he has a bright future. If the Titans can actually get Mariota a team around him and real coaches, he could very well be a top 5 quarterback.
December 12th, 2015 at 2:19 pm
How is going 2-4 in games you were in position to win a good year as QB?
December 12th, 2015 at 2:28 pm
Can Mariota do this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiqLwrpbxkw
This team plays for Jameis not Lovie.
December 12th, 2015 at 2:30 pm
Everything Supersam says has a huge “if” in front of it. If you think Mariota is having a better year, you should get new glasses.
December 12th, 2015 at 2:41 pm
https://s.yimg.com/fz/api/res/1.2/XoYemMpaMCyztYMo2cO1SQ–/dz00ODA7Y2M9NjA0ODAwO2FwcGlkPXNyY2hkZA–/http://tse2.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.M06c2ddc94c07b463b823f0774865e49do0&pid=15.1&P=0&w=300&h=300
December 12th, 2015 at 2:48 pm
If by chance Mariota does when rookie of the year it will only be due to his good boy reputation. Winston has the wins and the stats to take home the award easily. taking a 2-14 team and tripling, possibly quadrupling by seasons end, is a monumental feat that your boy can’t lay any claim to. It also can’t be argued that Winston has had more effect on his team than Mariota has had on his team. I can’t possibly think any intelligent sports mind would put Mariota over Winston as rookie of the year. Thats no disrespect to Mariota, he’s having a good rookie season, just not on the level of Jameis.
December 12th, 2015 at 3:43 pm
I’m not sure if the difference in downfield passing is as large as many on here seem to believe. According to sporting charts, Winston is 4th and Mariota is 9th in Air Yards per attempt (of the 35 QB’s with at least 900 yards passing). From ESPN splits, Winston is attempting 10.9% of passes at 20+ yards, completing 24.4%. Mariota is attempting 10.7% of passes at 20+ yards, completing 19.4%. Neither is having very good success at this range, but similar in how often they are attacking deep.
Both QB’s are doing a good job of pushing the ball downfield. The biggest difference is that Winston is throwing 34% of his passes 11-20yds, while Mariota is only throwing 27% in this range. But even that number (27%) puts him in the top 1/3 of the league. And both QB’s are top 6 in percentage of passes going for 1st downs, which is showing their tendency of throwing the ball past the sticks.
December 12th, 2015 at 4:40 pm
For Joe to say he has been rough on Pro Football Focus is like him saying Mike Evans hands are reliable. I get it on the player grading but for in depth statistical reference and up to date player and team evaluations, PFF is the only option for specific in depth tracking. For example here is one for Joes backscratching, brownnosing, yes-men, who spend their free time cleaning under his desk. PFF looked at the longest snap streaks in the PFF era (2007–present) that left tackles have gone without giving up a sack. Guess who was at number 10? Yours truly.
Rank-Left tackle-Team-Snaps without allowing sack-Year-Streak snapped
1. Duane Brown HOU 899 2012, Week 9 vs. BUF
2. Ryan Clady DEN 827 2009, Week 5 vs. NE
3. Andrew Whitworth CIN 819 Active
4. Jeff Backus DET 667 Retired
5. Jared Veldheer ARI 640 2015, Week 4 vs. STL
6. Anthony Castonzo IND 632 2014, Week 8 @ PIT
7. Flozell Adams DAL 620 2008, Week 3 @ GB
8. Joe Thomas CLE 600 2008, Week 1 vs. DAL
9. D’Brickashaw Ferguson NYJ 592 2010, AFC Champ. @ PIT
10. Anthony Collins TB 584 2014, Week 6 vs. BAL
December 12th, 2015 at 5:34 pm
@supersam 6-6 vs 3-9; 3 game winning drive vs 1… yeah he’s really “killing” winston LOL
December 12th, 2015 at 6:10 pm
Superset and his if’s……..I like Marcus, just don’t think he’s as clutch or as good. Lovie and the staff got schooled by the fired Wisenhunt. They made the most of MM’s abilities and put him in a position to win. Too many people want to give Marcua awards because of that one game. Since that game, don’t think it’s been that close and not in MM’s favor.
IF only the Titans players spoke of Marcus as Jameis’ teammates speak of him, I wouldn’t hear so many Tennessee crickets.
December 12th, 2015 at 6:31 pm
@BoltIsle
Again, closer than you think. Pro Football Focus ranks Winston as the 5th best QB over the lest 5 weeks, but Mariota as the 8th best. Mariota has the second best QBR (ESPN) over those 5 weeks, behind Cam Newton. He has been playing extremely well, including leading two 4th quarter comebacks. Both QB’s teammates have been lavishing their respective rookies in praise, and both fan-bases are convinced their guy is better.
December 12th, 2015 at 6:39 pm
SuperSam don’t forget that Winston didn’t have quite a few of his weapons most of the season and was still doing it with backups. VJax missed about 3 games, Evans missed week 1 & struggled with drops and ASJ is just coming back after being out since the end of the Saints game in week 2. So I’d have to say Delaine Walker, Justin Hunter, Kendall Wright, Harry Douglas and Dorial Green-Beckham are just as good as what he had to work with for several games.
December 12th, 2015 at 6:42 pm
Oh yeah and Louis Murphy the #3 WR is out for the season.
December 12th, 2015 at 6:55 pm
” Pro Football Focus ranks……..”
——-
Say no more. I don’t pay attention to anything that follows “pro football focus ranks”. It’s all hot garbage.
December 12th, 2015 at 9:25 pm
How awesome is it that both Mariota and Winston have turned into exceptional QB’s? I look forward to a Brady/Manning type rivalry for years to come!
December 13th, 2015 at 10:16 am
OMG, Joes, it’s Cris Collinsworth, there’s no “g” in his last name.