“Surprise To Everybody”
November 9th, 2015
Lavonte David talks to Joe
Tampa Bay defensive co-captain Lavonte David was one surprised dude yesterday right before the Giants-Bucs game.
The big shakeup at cornerback, with Johnthan Banks and Mike Jenkins booted and Sterling Moore and Jude Adjei-Barimah inserted as starters, was news to David.
“It was last-minute. It was a surprise to everybody,” David said. “I don’t know what happened on that situation, but those guys stepped up and made plays. First play, Sterling gets an interception.”
Thumbs up to Lovie Smith for delivering accountability lessons on his defense.
Bruce Carter? Benched.
George Johnson? Benched.
Alterraun Verner? Benched then relocated to nickel cornerback.
Tim Jennings? Benched and inactive.
And the list grew yesterday.
Imagine if Lovie acted like this last season with Michael Johnson. The Bucs might have lost the Chase for Jameis.
November 9th, 2015 at 10:45 am
Hard to trust those in charge of personnel when they’re the same ones dumping barth for brenzda, clayborn for TJ fat, and keeping dye over humphries.
November 9th, 2015 at 10:46 am
production wise, Adrian Claybourn = Gerald McCoy.
Good productive players when they’re healthy. Rarely healthy.
November 9th, 2015 at 10:47 am
it still produced a loss although the defense was not the culprit it was not like they were stopping the giants consistently nor getting critical stops when needed. Lovie’s defensive system and philosophy is the problem not the players. Players win championships not systems. Lovie still has no clue how to fit talented players into his system. He is too rigid and stubborn.
November 9th, 2015 at 10:48 am
Verner should be out there, Jenkins and Jennings shouldn’t have jobs.
I personally think a similar message should be sent to some ‘higher profile’ players on the defense
November 9th, 2015 at 10:49 am
Verner made some terrific plays yesterday on the ball
November 9th, 2015 at 10:51 am
Verner and Moore look solid, along with Jude much better than what we saw in ATL. Why did it take 8 weeks for the two CBs we’ve targeted in FA each of the last 2 years to see the field consistently? Because coach had to let his pet projects jennings and jenkins fail 10x each before removing them?
November 9th, 2015 at 10:53 am
As a whole, it looks like the GM’s choices regarding personnel are ok. It’s looking like the coach’s choices are questionable.
Unless you can give me another reason Tim Jennings gets his crack at playing time, fresh off the street, before a guy like Moore or a big money guy like Verner.
November 9th, 2015 at 10:55 am
And while we’re spouting off, who the hell made the decsion that Charles Tillman wasn’t a guy we should chase (lets let him go to a div rival to form the top CB duo in the league) while Jennings was a must have?
November 9th, 2015 at 10:57 am
@ What?
Watching the Carolina game yesterday, I thought the same thing. We could use the “Peanut Punch”
November 9th, 2015 at 10:59 am
@tmax
Wow. With all due respect read your post.
Lovie’s defensive system and philosophy is the problem not the players. Players win championships not systems.
So which is it? Are the players responsible or Lovie. In the first sentence you claim it’s Lovie’s system causing the problem. Then follow it with players win championships not systems.
And so when we lose it’s Lovie’s fault…if we win it’s the players accomplishment.
And so in your theory Buc players get a free pass because it’s all Lovie’s fault.
If they should go on a big run and make the playoffs it will be the players accomplishments. Wow I’d love to be a player for you. If we lose it’s all on the coach if we win I get the credit.
November 9th, 2015 at 10:59 am
Revis+Tillman may have been acceptable. Might have had to sacrifice Johnson and Verner, but oh well.
November 9th, 2015 at 11:02 am
Thumbs up to Lovie Smith for delivering accountability lessons on his defense.
Agree completely Joe. And what a great sight as Akeem Spence came off the field to have Lovie…clearly agitated…grab Spence to get his attention! That didn’t come out of the Dungy coaching playbook but I LOVED IT.
The brain dead penalties HAVE TO STOP!!!
November 9th, 2015 at 11:06 am
I have to be honest, I actually like some of the moves that lovie is making!!! Starting to randomly blitz, holding some players accountable, benching players if they are not getting the job done.
I just don’t understand why it took over a year and a half to see some of the improvements that we were complaining about a long time ago!!!!
still many issues with lovie, but trying to give some credit even though it is belated credit!!
November 9th, 2015 at 11:13 am
perfect example that Lovie is clueless…no continuity in the secondary…musical corners is a certain appetite for disaster…the corners all apparently suck, but switching players every week does nothing for your defense…
November 9th, 2015 at 11:16 am
@Realist
I just don’t understand why it took over a year and a half
Agree with you post completely and I wish I could answer your question.
My only guess would be desperation. The look on Lovie’s face the last two weeks reflects a man who is clearly frustrated and realizes this can’t continue.
Perhaps Lovie is sane after all!!! Remember Einstein’s famous definition of insanity? Doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result. Maybe Lovie actually figured it out?
November 9th, 2015 at 11:17 am
I don’t really understand the benching of Banks. Maybe I’ve missed something, but I’ve yet to see him get abused all season. The only TD I can recall him giving up was to Julio, but that was a clear mistake by Conte in biting on the pump fake. Most teams seem to be more than happy to throw away from Banks. I’m great with the Jenkins benching, but I’m sorry, I’d feel better with Banks covering Dez next week as opposed to Moore or that other guy with the long name.
November 9th, 2015 at 11:21 am
now all lovie needs to do is find a way to bench an over paid DT ….oh wait that won’t happen
November 9th, 2015 at 11:22 am
Trust Belief Accountability
Forget About Me I Love You
Yall thought you heard those for the last time didn’t you?
November 9th, 2015 at 11:23 am
Banks’ mistake is not being Lovie’s pet.
What does it say about lovie that the last possible combo of CBs given all options is the most effective?
November 9th, 2015 at 11:24 am
A: it means he can’t accurately evaluate talent.
Which you might have gathered after he CUT Mccown as his 3rd QB in 12, then signed him as a starter in 14. Wrong on both counts.
November 9th, 2015 at 11:25 am
Or after he pegged Johnson as his DE.
Or after he traded for Johnson as he DE.
November 9th, 2015 at 11:27 am
The big take away for me from this game is as Realist states….
I really don’t understand why some of these guys are not performing better!!! ME and Doug Martin dropped two game changing throws that Jamies got lit up to deliver…. Either one of those if not both put the game away so to speak…. Never MIMD the lack of talent at key spots that we will address via the draft…. The talent you do have MUST MUST MUST make the easy plays….
What a shame these guys our letting such golden opportunities to be so successful literally slip through their finger tips….
Still with that being said…. We need to stay the course…. Winning comes with perseverance and hard work as much as talent and luck….
This team should not be hanging their heads today…. They should be ticked off and ready to get at it again next week….. The weaknesses are being addressed…. Soon can’t come soon enough…. So its time for a complete game against Dallas!!!!
November 9th, 2015 at 11:27 am
I mean, two Johnsons don’t equal one Clayborn.
But we pay one, trade for another, and let AC walk for peanuts.
November 9th, 2015 at 11:33 am
Stpete
The point that I am making is Lovie forces players into his system versus taken advantage of their strengths. Good / great coaches now how to get the most out of their players gvien skill set. Lovie does not, he forces players into his rigid system and does not allow for the players to shine.
November 9th, 2015 at 11:52 am
@tmax
I used to be with you on Lovie’s rigidity. But as Realist and I discussed earlier he has violated many of his previous beliefs and become much more willing to roll the dice.
As far as his system…some posters here who claim to watch the replays religiously claim he is not playing Tampa 2 exclusively at all and that many teams also mix in Tampa 2.
In honesty I’m not that much of football junkie to start breaking down tape so I don’t know who to believe you or other posters.
November 9th, 2015 at 11:56 am
We chase mediocre players that fit his system and we chase away talented players that don’t.
November 9th, 2015 at 12:01 pm
StPeteBucsFan
I agree with realist that he has tried to make some adjustments. I am not talking about the tampa2 per se… I am talking about his philosophy the bend and don’t break, the playing not to lose, lack of decisve game day adjustments. not specific schemes per se. Lovie will never be confused with an aggressive outside the box coach and that part I am ok with however, LVD for an example was a borderline pro bowler and now ranked one f the worst lb in the league. I just don’t feel lovie is open minded / creative enough to consistently make adjustments and put players in the right position to succeed week in and week out.
November 9th, 2015 at 12:02 pm
Jerseybuc
very well put sir!
November 9th, 2015 at 12:07 pm
I think Lavonte is next to be benched. His play has been the most disappointing out of everyone on that defense this year.
He’s supposed to be an impact player and he’s been blowing chucks all over the field.
Move Lansanah to WLB and Carter to SAM. David needs to get his sh*t together.
Siege this!
Go Sucs!
November 9th, 2015 at 12:20 pm
If you don’t think Lovie is the coach then that’s fine. But he is not responsible for players not making plays. GMC gets absolutely no push up the middle. He has to be hurt, because McCoy has an excellent get off. Lovie is also to blame for miss tackles and blown assignments. Our veteran defensive players are a bunch softies. Verner has gotten benched, playing a new position, and you see him busting his azz as a gunner on the punt team. I have a lot of respect for the guy.
Players make plays!
November 9th, 2015 at 12:22 pm
If a new coach comes in, I’m willing to bet either GMC ot LVD will be off the team.
November 9th, 2015 at 12:22 pm
or
November 9th, 2015 at 12:22 pm
Jerseybuc Says:
November 9th, 2015 at 11:56 am
We chase mediocre players that fit his system and we chase away talented players that don’t.
AGREED!!!! Good coaches adapt to talent and play to their strengths. This is something we have failed to do for years now,
November 9th, 2015 at 12:36 pm
Maybe Lovante needs to be benched. He sucked again yesterday. I don’t give a crap what he did as a rookie. He was terrible yesterday. missed a bunch of tackles, got run over completely and was out of position in the passing game.
November 9th, 2015 at 12:48 pm
Bench LVD, Rotf, you guys are funny. LVD led the team in tackles AGAIN with 11 (6 solo). I won’t even bother bring up McCoy who had 3 tackles IN THE LAST 3 games. Hello and good night.
November 9th, 2015 at 12:56 pm
Not Lavonte’s strongest game but benching him would be ridiculous. McCoy has been largely disappointing but at the same time I see him constantly double teamed and sometimes even triple teamed. Our lack of talent at defensive end is the biggest problem we have on defense. Our secondary is below average but they look worse because opposing QB’s have too much time in the pocket not to mention the fact that is just too easy to go over the short middle against this defense.
November 9th, 2015 at 1:12 pm
Did Howard jones play? I don’t see him on the stat sheet and don’t recall seeing him on the field. If he didn’t play it would make sense bc he only had 3 sacks and a TD in the last 3 games.
I can’t possibly be the only person that sees this stuff am I?
November 9th, 2015 at 1:22 pm
Did anyone notice how hard McCoy was breathing in the 3 quarter on the time out… I didn’t see any of the Giants Defense with their tongues hanging out.
Maybe we need to stop babying McCoy and hold him accountable.. He is making play maker money… GET OUT THERE AND HIT SOMEONE>>>>>
Don’t give me the double team crap, Sapp was double teamed most of his career and didn’t make McCoy money..
HEY LOVIE – bench the next player who stands on the field, after a loss, like they are on the playground making new friends…
November 9th, 2015 at 2:04 pm
Carter, Jenkins, and Johnson all played. I guess sometimes it’s easier to see things from the end zone than a media booth.
November 9th, 2015 at 2:31 pm
ATrain.
Saying players need to act like you want after a loss is ridiculous.
McCoy is breathing hard because he is playing while barely practicing and injured.
Get a grip
November 9th, 2015 at 5:04 pm
@CC Says & DB55 Says – Per Pro Football Focus – LB Lavonte David’s (-6.4) overall grade for the Giants game is a new career-low mark in a disappointing season. David has earned a positive grade just once in 2015, and currently ranks last among 34 qualifying 4-3 OLBs with a (-14.0) season grade. He missed four tackles, and was beaten repeatedly in coverage: Manning was 7 of 8 for 46 yards, a touchdown and a 130.2 QB rating when targeting David.
Lavonte David ranks last among 4-3 OLB is seriously baffling. Not to mention the PF penalty. Maybe the bench may be a motivator?
November 9th, 2015 at 5:41 pm
I don’t think he should be benched, but still disappointing. He couldn’t come close to covering Vereen, and got trucked at least once.
November 9th, 2015 at 5:49 pm
Godzilla
You may be right, his performance has definitely declined but 11 tackles is no small task. As for PFF I leave you with this … https://www.joebucsfan.com/2015/11/stat-geeks-out-of-control/
November 9th, 2015 at 7:33 pm
you need to bench LVD and McSniffles next…probably the 2 physically weakest players on the field….
November 9th, 2015 at 8:35 pm
Honestly we don’t know what to do.Does the coach suck? Do the players suck? Were all tired of changing coaches and seeing players prosper on other teams.it’s aggravating as hell!! Apparently no one can play in this system and even our best players are becoming inconsistent.I do think the next draft will help alot but we don’t have enough picks.
November 10th, 2015 at 1:19 am
Bucs fans answers to everything , trade away all your good players if they don’t produce at the level the fan expects. Than write and call complaining why we don’t have any good players after they gone.
Before you complain about McCoy look at his career starts and compare them with others at that time in their career.
Guy is playing injured for past 5 games , dumb fan will complain if he is. It playing that he needs to play injured. Take McCoy out and two OLINE players can block the bucs entire line dLine. McCoy is getting doubled and injured yet no one else can beat there man one on one.
Now dumb buc fan ate tying to ask for Lavonte David benching , it’s obvious who has played the game and who watched from a couch all their lives or thinks they judge players cause they won Super Bowl on Xbox madden on a beginners level.
Some of you guys are a joke.
Defensive scheme is most problem of problem and some player personnel (Jenkins) corners are ru Bing backwards from the snap leaving any curl route or short in route Open all day long. Hmm maybe if we had revis and Tillman who can cover one on one we wouldn’t have to turn and run backwards as corners. Why thee HELL IS BANKS OUT kid is best player as CB we have ???
November 10th, 2015 at 1:58 pm
@DB55 Says – Is your point that because of this article Joe wrote PFF is irrelevant? In a sports media culture heavily saturated in football statistics, Pro Football Focus has earned the distinction as the go-to website for NFL grades. If you call into question the reliability of their subjective scoring system, consider every player is ranked under the same system, which is checked and re-checked by three and at times up to four separate scorers. Almost every site regarding the NFL uses PFF as a reference at some point as I will continue to do.