Quit Throwing So Much
October 8th, 2015
Limiting Jameis’ throws is too simplistic of a solution.
Bucs fans are starting to squirm while sitting on the toilet getting ready for work, and it has to do with passing. No, not that kind of passing, but passing the football.
In particular, the passing of America’s Quarterback, Bucs signal-caller Jameis Winston. In particular his passing of picks.
Hey, the guy is a rookie. Joe understands. A lot of fans — and, of course, the haters that crawl among us — don’t understand or don’t want to understand.
Conor Orr of NFL.com seems to have the solution for Jameis to cut down on picks. That would be quit throwing the ball so much.
Limit Jameis Winston’s passing attempts: The Bucs should take a page out of Pittsburgh’s book and never force Winston to take over a game during his rookie season. Blake Bortles threw himself silly during his first year in Jacksonville and is just now starting to settle down. Winston has thrown more than 30 times in a game three times now, and in two of the last three weeks, he’s been over 35 attempts. He’s not ready to be an air-raid passer. Doug Martin, however, is ready to carry the workload
Well, not really. Martin couldn’t carry the workload against the Texans, which is one reason Jameis threw so much. And passing wasn’t a problem for Jameis at Houston, but passes dropped killed him. The week prior, no one complained about Jameis launching the ball so much.
It is not as simple as handing the ball to Martin 35-40 times and getting him beat to death. Rookie quarterbacks are up and down. It’s what they do.
As Bucs offensive coordinator Dirk Koetter sarcastically said yesterday, “We have a rookie quarterback and he’s playing inconsistent. What’s the next news flash we are going to send?”
October 8th, 2015 at 5:20 am
I think this is a great point, unfortunately I bet the Jags are thinking the same thing and will load up with 8 or 9 in the box and force Winston to throw and see if he makes more mistakes. The Jags will also probably try to dumb down their offense as well by utilizing TJ Yeldon much like it has been suggested the Bucs use Martin as a workhorse and control the time of possession and wear down the Bucs defensive front. If the Bucs load up for the run than Bortles gets off a pass to Hurns, Robinson and knowing the Bucs luck Julius Thomas will probably somehow get on the field and make a play….
But the Bucs are actually favored in this game as a result of being at home and that the Jags are a pretty bad team as well only beating the Miami Philbins…. Question is which team gets the job done better, avoids turnovers, drive killing penalties on offense, back breaking penalties on defense, has the better special teams and eventually breaks out on top when the dust settles? I hate to say it but with the Bucs history of gagging at home that would be the Jags…. Maybe it is time for Lovie to punchout at the One Buc timeclock if that happens….
October 8th, 2015 at 5:49 am
Being a rookie wasn’t an excuse when Glennon was a rookie with a worse OC, not having the benefit of being the starter in camp and still was playing better than Winston is now. Why would we give Americas QB more slack then we did Glennon? We were told he’s NFL ready.
October 8th, 2015 at 6:03 am
Wow.. You mean the game plan is to establish the run early and often. Rinse and repeat.
October 8th, 2015 at 6:05 am
Had to wait a whole article for it, but you didn’t disappoint mme Joe. Last line, there it is: “Maybe it’s time for Lovie to punchout at the One Buc Place timeclock if that happens.”
So Lovie has America’s QB throwing too often, and Lovie is thus responsible for Jameis’ interceptions? Not hardly. Jameis dug the Bucs a 10-0 hole three mins into the game last Sunday, not Lovie. The Bucs ran the ball quite a bit too. Martin and Sims especially their up their end, Jameis didn’t. The defense did their job and looked much improved to me, Jameis didn’t. Special teams even looked better (except for the rookie Brindza), Jameis didn’t.
Take away two rookies, substitute two average veterans at QB and PK, and the Bucs win last Sunday with just average performances on their parts. So please stop with pushing all the blame onto Lovie. He’s made lots of mistakes getting us to this point I readily admit, but poor play on the field most often falls on the players. Not always for sure, but most often. Jameis will bounce back, and so will the Bucs. The players know where accountabilty needs to lie, and looks like they’re still playing hard for Lovie. When that stops, I’ll be the the first to say Bye Bye Lovie.
October 8th, 2015 at 6:06 am
Oh, nonsense. Houston stacked the box. Gotta throw. Behind 10 – 0 against Carolina. Gotta throw.
October 8th, 2015 at 6:20 am
The way it is going, I’d like our odds better in Jacksonville. We have home field disadvantage it seems.
October 8th, 2015 at 6:24 am
Ok this is a stupid article. Yeah it would be great to throw less like Pittsburgh did with big Ben. Did we forget the Steelers had a dominant defense and above average O line. Its an apples to oranges comparison. Throw in game situations and we started 2 of 4 games down by 2 touchdowns, goodbye game plan.
It has been stated many times that players get better playing, or is that only for non-quarterback players? Handing off 40 times a game isn’t really playing for a quarterback. He needs to learn what throws he can and can’t make, that some throws can’t be made late. I don’t care about the picks because sprinkled in are some really good throws, as long as he doesn’t lose his confidence and doesn’t keep making the same bad throws.
October 8th, 2015 at 6:25 am
Joe,
Week 2 he only threw 21 times…. Not 40. That’s why no one complained… You misremember well.
October 8th, 2015 at 6:36 am
The problem is they throw slot cause they are down by 14 or more in first 10 minutes. You have to throw. The reason is its obvious they run 1st and 2nd taken. Have 3rd and long. It’s three and out to often , than defense is tired by 4th. They need to mix it up better and stop running the comeback routes to Evans and Jackson every 4trd down
October 8th, 2015 at 7:07 am
Glennon never ever got a pass, he just gets ridiculed by the Tampa Bay talking heads. Funny thing is, Glennon has played better than any Bucs QB since being on our hell hole of a team.
October 8th, 2015 at 7:17 am
Wow, this guy should be an NFL d-coordinator…..what a novel concept….STOP THE RUN and MAKE JAMEIS THROW THE FOOTBALL…….
He absolutely broke the DaVinci Code…..!!
Simply amazing!!
October 8th, 2015 at 7:30 am
Joes,
I agree with you that throwing the ball isn’t the issue here. However, it is the way we throw the ball. We need to get in some short routes so he can get the pass off quickly and let the playmakers make the play. They said Jameis had shortened his release in the offseason (especially pre-draft). I don’t see it. NFL corners and LBs are feasting on routes that take time to develop. His eyes are too easy to read and the long release is killing him. Koetter needs to force him to get the ball out of his hands quicker to avoid sacks and promote that quick release he’s been working on.
October 8th, 2015 at 7:33 am
And I’m not talking about screen passes. Or a pass to the flat after the receiver already is at the sidelines. Plays that are designed to go with option 1 as the short route. No dink and dunking. No checkdown to the short route. Those don’t work. Give me a slant route over the middle.
October 8th, 2015 at 7:37 am
Jameis needs to take better care of the football. Another 3+ interception performance and Glennon should be next man up.
October 8th, 2015 at 7:39 am
No single player is above the best chance for the team to win. Jameis needs to be better, and Jameis’ rookie year does not need to become an excuse for the entire team’s failures.
October 8th, 2015 at 8:05 am
Stevek
That a very short sighted approach. And Winston’s turnovers absolutely werea big part of this loss, but he didn’t miss t FG that could have had us 17-16 and chanted the game plan. Winston was also not the cause of the other losses. You make it sound like he is holding back a superbowl contender, and if that was the case then absolutely make a change, but for the long term future of this team we need to let him play.
October 8th, 2015 at 8:06 am
He’s up and down for sure and I’m up and down how this turns out. The slow release and locking on receivers leading to picks is a worry before drafting and now it’s still there…uncorrected. The kid has work ethic and passion, apparently, but the “IT” factor with the great QB’s is not showing up. I’m all for running Martin into the ground but when you look at the strengths of the offense, it lies with Evans and Jackson…and with OL issues, the quick passes to those guys should be plan A…no floaters in the flat though 🙂
October 8th, 2015 at 8:32 am
It’s not how often he throws….it’s where and when……I can recall many times Glennon throwing it away….and he was constantly critisized about his checkdowns and dinking & dunking.
Winston’s interceptions have mostly come from passes that simply should not have been thrown….and two of them were his first or second passes of the game….so that had nothing to do with the number of throws.
Either design some simple screens and tosses to backs, TEs…FB…..or prepare to continue to see the interceptions…..that is until Winston understands that an incompletion is better than an interception.
October 8th, 2015 at 8:39 am
Run more? We cant get first downs running. That’s like telling a guy in a wheelchair to lose weight by jogging!!
October 8th, 2015 at 8:39 am
FartMan Says:
Being a rookie wasn’t an excuse when Glennon was a rookie with a worse OC, not having the benefit of being the starter in camp and still was playing better than Winston is now. Why would we give Americas QB more slack then we did Glennon? We were told he’s NFL ready.
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+1
October 8th, 2015 at 8:56 am
BoJim Says:
October 8th, 2015 at 8:39 am
FartMan Says:
Being a rookie wasn’t an excuse when Glennon was a rookie with a worse OC, not having the benefit of being the starter in camp and still was playing better than Winston is now. Why would we give Americas QB more slack then we did Glennon? We were told he’s NFL ready.
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+1
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+2
tickrdr
October 8th, 2015 at 9:14 am
“America’s Turnover Machine”…aka “The ATM” ….aka Jameis Winston is not ready for prime time! So while a quality QB rides the pine, Lovie will AGAIN go with his guy…to the detriment of the team ( and “screw the fans, too!”).
Fine go right ahead! After the ATM’s 3rd pick, the fans will turn ugly, the Bucs will lose to a Jacksonville team that’s nearly as pathetic as we are, Lovie and Licht can collect their pink slips on Monday, Koetter can be introduced as the new interim HC and we can begin (again) to rebuild this team into a contender!
Sometimes you gotta take a few steps back, before you can move forward!
October 8th, 2015 at 9:14 am
He has a windup motion that slows delivery, giving extra time for the D to get in his face. He cannot run out of trouble, he is too slow. He throws off his back foot too much. From under center he looses a second getting to the throwing position, again slow footwork. Here is the rub. what is correctable and what is not.
October 8th, 2015 at 9:16 am
+3
October 8th, 2015 at 9:16 am
Tim Tebow has a windup delivery…Funny, how Winston just needs “time.” On the other hand, Tebow, was never given time and consistent coaching…..Funny how that works…
October 8th, 2015 at 9:23 am
For those of you how wish to run more, remember it become Lovie’s CHORUS LINE OFFENSE.
1-2-3-KICK
October 8th, 2015 at 9:24 am
+4
October 8th, 2015 at 9:24 am
And look what happened when he was told to dink and dunk. A nice article to make sure everyone knew young Jameis was told to do that. Seems Glennon was always hung out to dry and did it on his own.
And people are skeptical of Jameis that crawl among us not haters.
And Fartman +3
October 8th, 2015 at 9:25 am
to slow . ok +5
October 8th, 2015 at 9:31 am
ON GLENNON, He is not going to start unless Winston is injured. To Have Glennon play, would be to admit that they made a mistake last year, they drafted wrong and they need a HC. Funny they do nothing with Glennon whom they will lose next year and get nothing in return. I think I would pull Winston, play Glennon, show case him, trade him for a D back or Pick. Funny that everyone knows this except the front office.
October 8th, 2015 at 9:48 am
The Bucs have never matched up well with the Jags grind it out style of offense and defense. As far as Winston goes it’s a sad joke to make up excuses for the amount of turnovers he’s had. Guess what? You CAN’T turn the ball over in the NFL or you will LOSE! Stop blaming everyone one else like the water boy didn’t get him his drink fast enough and he was dehydrated on his pass (TD passes) to the other team. Nothing will get you blown out faster than spotting the other team 24 points from turnovers.
October 8th, 2015 at 9:48 am
I just keep thinking how Joe let us know how we shouldn’t worry about Jameis throwing all those INTs in preseason because that was all part of the practice. To see what he can and can’t do with NFL defenses. What a joke.
October 8th, 2015 at 9:50 am
+6
October 8th, 2015 at 9:52 am
The Jags are simply going to put everyone in the box and leave the WR’s in single man coverage. Screens, slants, running plays will all be hard when the D is crowding the line daring you to pass. I hope for the best, but I’m really not expecting much to be honest.
October 8th, 2015 at 9:54 am
We all know Glennon got a raw deal. I just hope when he finally gets out of here he doesn’t end up being another Bucs QB mistake, where he goes on to bigger and better elsewhere.
October 8th, 2015 at 10:01 am
I get the anger over winston and his interceptions but you guys have to see the positives. Last week I saw him look off a safety beautifully before making a completion to Vjax. Glennon had his chance multiple times. The Bucs aren’t doing a bad job at moving the ball we just need to learn to complete drives. If those passes aren’t dropped in Houston and those field goals are made we win the game. Same things as last week, momentum is a big part of the game
October 8th, 2015 at 10:08 am
I don’t think the issue is throwing so much as it is being so freaking predictable on 1st down.
October 8th, 2015 at 10:10 am
+6, I was told to be shush about Glennon and the qb I shall call” He who must not be named”. We all knew that his apologists would make up every excuse under the sun on why he’s stinking up the field. Glennon runs out of bounds short of a first and people wanted to crucify him for it. Jameis intentionally grounds, throws dumb, dumb interceptions and we’re told to be patient. Where was Glennon’s patience? We’ve seen this qb before…..locks on receivers, picks in the flat, not seeing lbs on picks. …..Vinny all over again
October 8th, 2015 at 10:14 am
IF. And a lot of the same IF’s went for Glennon. IF the defense could have held leads more games would have been won. Lost by 7 points or less! we shall see how many more are given away or are lost by 7 or less. Right now the only thing that counts is Winston is no better. W-L 1-3 Loser!
October 8th, 2015 at 10:20 am
Bucnjim. We were told accept the turnovers….blah blah blah…. just like Brett Favre, Manning threw 28. Look, this isn’t Brett Favre era, or the Manning of the 90s era. Different era, teams can score and will crush you if you throw 3 or 4 picks a game. Hell he didn’t listen to Gruden about locking on, he hasn’t learned from his sophomore year at FSU, what makes you think he’s anything other than what he is?
October 8th, 2015 at 10:43 am
+7.
It’s about moving the chains, not moving the needles. Martin will be going against a stacked box all year while opposing D’s feast on Winston’s flying freebies.
It’s about takeaways. “Coach” Smith said so himself!
October 8th, 2015 at 11:00 am
Chris – I was thinking Dilfer, but you’re right, he reminds me of Testaverde with the bonehead interceptions. Vinny also showed his true colors in his final college bowl game and the Bucs overlooked his fatal flaws, too.
October 8th, 2015 at 11:07 am
When you throw a pick six, down by 10 its hard not to throw. When the run is stuffed and its third and seven, its hard not to run.
On first down, you got to read the defense and either keep the run or audible to a pass. And as a rookie, that is not that easy right now. I would hope as the season goes, Jamris will get better at reading the defense and is allowed to change the play.
October 8th, 2015 at 11:58 am
Is this guy an idiot? You can’t just not throw the ball. We are trying to win games. Not run Doug Martin into a wall play after play. If the run game is working we need to utilize it. But you can’t just say, “stop throw it so much.” This guy is an idiot.
October 8th, 2015 at 12:10 pm
I wonder how many series has ended because of 1st and 2nd down runs that lead to a 3rd and long attempt. It seems like every drive fails in this fashion. We are stuck in a passing situation and that usually gives leverage to the defense. I swear we are predictable on offense. Imagine a pitcher that always threw 1st and 2nd pitch fast balls. And then always threw a 3rd pitch curve ball. Eventually the opposing team is going to catch on to the predictable play calling. And the bucs are doing just that, making it easy for the defense by being predictable on first and second down. We have no misdirection, the play actions are poorly executed and fools no one.
It always amazes me how bad our defense bites on play actions, but we never can get that type of bite from our offense. Its been like that for a long time, since before the lovie era. We want to commit to the run so bad that we leave ourselves out of position and end up giving up a big play. Schiano coached teams started this trend, and we havent been able to shake it.
October 8th, 2015 at 12:13 pm
@Buc1987:
+6 ——- Hilarious!
tickrdr
October 8th, 2015 at 12:56 pm
Yeah, wonder when he’ll be held accountable to w/l record like Glennon….except……whoops, Glennon had better stats.
October 8th, 2015 at 1:27 pm
If Glennon were the starter, there is a good chance we are 3-1 right now, not 1-3.
October 8th, 2015 at 6:12 pm
tickrdr…lol I AM a Glennon fan!
I know nobody wants to believe that, but I am. I know the kid never got a fair shake by the team, the media, and the Joes.
October 8th, 2015 at 6:50 pm
@Buc1987:
LOL, the MGM lives!
tickrdr (charter member of the MGM)
October 9th, 2015 at 12:50 am
Wow. Everyone has turned on Jameis and now remembers Glennon to be a great QB. I agree with Connor Orr I think the Bucs have abandon the run too early in games and expecting a rookie to throw that many long passes is just asking for trouble. I expect Jameis to start playing better the 2nd half of the season. Glennon is 5-15 so 1-3 sounds more likely than 3-1 to me.