“It Is About Developing”
October 10th, 2015
Six-win team?
While there are quite a few noisy people locally that have already called for Lovie Smith’s head on a platter if the Bucs fall to the Jags tomorrow, Woody Cummings is not one of them.
The Bucs beat writer for the Tampa Tribune had no illusions the Bucs would be lousy this year. Thus, the fact Tampa Bay is playing lousy doesn’t disturb him one bit.
Cummings, in talking to Miller and Moulton on WWCN-FM 99.3 in Fort Myers earlier this week, seems confused by a number of Bucs fans hollering for (3-17, 0-10 at home) Lovie’s scalp.
In short, he rhetorically asked aloud, what did Bucs fans expect? This was in response to an analogy put in front of Cummings that the Bucs are a bad sitcom and changing coaches every two years is like replacing bad actors with another set of bad actors.
“You are absolutely right. That’s why every time someone says it is coaching – ‘Get rid of Lovie.’ You don’t understand what you are asking for. Because, you’ve had that already. …
“It is not about firing the coach. It is about developing the patience – and I know fans don’t want to hear it – it is about developing the patience that it takes to get it right because eventually, one of these coaches is going to get it right. I can’t speak for Raheem Morris because he had never done it. But every other coach you have had in here has had a track record of success. So, he is doing something right somewhere. So I would stick with the guy and let it work out. Let him get through the growing pains – and we should have expected growing pains this year. When fans are so frustrated [I asked them], ‘What did you expect this year? What did you expect?‘ I expected six wins. So I am getting pretty much what I expected. A lot of inconsistent play. A lot of frustrating moments. A lot of moments when you say, ‘Hey, this team could be pretty good.’ And a lot of moments where you say, “Man, this team looks bad.’
“But that is what six-win teams do. And that’s what they are.”
But are the Bucs even a six-win team? At this point that’s a tough sell. If the Bucs lose today to the Jags, you look at the remaining schedule of the Bucs and tell Joe where five wins come from.
Former Bucs commander Greg Schiano had seven wins his first season (not two wins like Lovie), which is a hair better than a six-win team. And that year there were a few wins where the Bucs looked dominant, including a win over playoff-bound Minnesota on the road on a short-week Thursday night.
Only one of Lovie’s three wins was by more than one score — one! — and that was last year against the rotten Redskins.
Without going into great detail, Lovie has given the anti-Lovie crowd a helluva lot more ammunition than the Keep Lovie crowd has, including still searching for a home win — just one! — which is nearly unthinkable in a league built for parity. And there’s Lovie’s countless, costly free agent gaffes, and a defense that too often gets lit up like a roman candle on the Fourth of July, even when Lovie has four months to prepare.
If Lovie wants job security, a big step would be for him and his team to beat the Jags tomorrow.
Joe, too, thought the Bucs were a six-win team. They are not at that level. Yet.
October 10th, 2015 at 10:08 pm
I agree with Woody. You have a player overhaul, new OC and rookie QB. Coach Smith has done this before. Be patient.
October 10th, 2015 at 10:23 pm
Youngry! !!!!!!!!
October 10th, 2015 at 11:03 pm
They might win 4 games this year. Patience? Obviously Mr Cummings doesn’t have to spend his hard earned money to go watch this disgrace of team get shelacked every home game as we fans do. Patience my ass Cummings.
October 10th, 2015 at 11:36 pm
Develop deez nuts
October 11th, 2015 at 12:08 am
Funny, because in four weeks I’ve seen zero development. I fully agree with the message here, too bad that Lovie hasn’t shown that he’s actually capable of developing the talent that has been assembled. Same goes for the rest of his coaching staff, and that includes the over hyped Koetter. Some players are actually regressing, especially on the defensive front – see Lavonte David. Isn’t Lovie Smith a defensive coach? Didn’t he contribute to create the fabled Tampa 2 during the Dungy era? Isn’t he supposed to be an expert and an asset in this regard? And yet, all we can see is a defense that is mostly clueless.
Stop making excuses for Lovie Smith and believe that he’ll turn things around, that the team will improve. The game has passed him by, that’s the sad truth. The Bucs will continue to be bottom dwellers with him at the helm.
October 11th, 2015 at 12:26 am
CW says that the Jags have a stout run defense and are terrific in the first quarter. That’s not much but it’s more than the Yucks. What is one thing the Yucks do well to build off of? Run d? Nope. Pressure the passer? No. Special teams? No. Third down? Horrors. They don’t seem to do anything well. Heck, even Willie T got a nice win this week.
October 11th, 2015 at 12:55 am
@ Elle
Geeez….I don’t know what’s worse from you:
– Your Posts
Or
– Your lack of football knowledge
October 11th, 2015 at 12:56 am
Let me get this straight…the reason you keep a coach is because “one of these coaches is going to get it right”? Now that’s some confidence-inspiring reasoning right there.
October 11th, 2015 at 1:48 am
More lousy hogwash from Cummings as he carries water for the lovable incompetent running this sht show of a football team.
Ok so think about what this he is saying without meaning to say it…Morris/Schiano/Dominik would have been fine if only more time was given yet the guy that has the most damned NFL level coaching experience has by far done the WORST job. Raheem had the last winning season with far less player talent and committed support. Remember he went through the London games and the lockout. Then there is Schiano that had Freeman setting Buccaneer records and brought some attitude to this football team.
Someone please tell me where the incompetent boob and his little lapdog GM have improved this football team?…and don’t say Winston because earning the first overall pick does not equate to positive credential. It is biggest loser status. I don’t know how people cannot see this.
October 11th, 2015 at 2:37 am
@TheBucsAnthem
Aren’t you the one who, come Sunday, posts over and over how much Winston sucks and how the Bucs should have drafted Mariota? That’s all you post here. You’re still around? I thought you would be spamming a Titans-related site by now. I’m not offended by your comments. You’re just an Internet troll, probably a teenager as well, and you’ve been trying to rile up people who disagree with your nonsense ever since the first game. I might not be a football expert, but I sure understand more than you do, apparently. Like the fact that judging two rookie QBs after just a few games is absurd. A concept that seems to elude your – limited – comprehension.
October 11th, 2015 at 5:51 am
I agree with Cummings. We can’t keep changing coaches every 2 years and expect things to get better. Lovie’s made a bunch of mistakes, I’ll readily admit. But that’s water under the bridge to me; nothing we can do to change that.
The big question to me is: Is Lovie the right HC to lead us forward? Frankly at this point in the season I don’t know. But I am seeing some progress in all 3 phases of the game, and that part is encouraging. But I agree with most everyone else: Progress is nice, but I’d much rather see wins.
Something else that’s encouraging is that we’ve got a lot of first and second year guys who are playing well. Very well in several cases, especially on offense. That bodes well for the future I think.
What’s not encouraging? Our defense is a patchwork of too many players who other teams let go. If they were superstars, the other teams would’ve kept them. That’s especially hurting us at DE and safety I think. We’ve got to draft some new blood this year and train them up right.
Winston’s play also isn’t encouraging. The intangibles are clearly there (leadership, arm strength, etc) but Jameis is making too many of the same mistakes over and over. Looks to me to be a replay of what we saw at FSU, only with different results. His play has gotten us behind early a couple times, and he’s simply not good enough yet to dig the team out of the holes that he creates. If that part continues, he needs to ride the bench for awhile.
October 11th, 2015 at 5:57 am
I agree with Cummings, you can’t go 2 & 14 and expect to turn it around w/ a new rookie QB, a new coordinator and the offensive line we have and expect that we are going to be good. They are young, and learning. Give them time and your support. They’ve got a great core of young talent. Lovie is in only his second year for god sakes. Give him a least till the end of year 3. If YOU love the Bucs support them, good or bad.
October 11th, 2015 at 7:48 am
@Elle is spot ducking on! The game has simply passed Lovie by. It’s as simple as that. Chicago fans can attest to his ineptitude as a coach. Breaking news, I heard Lovie and Big Dog were on a romantic date last evening.
October 11th, 2015 at 7:58 am
Defense rules,
Whether I agree with your posts or not I always enjoy reading them. Never name calling or degrading anyone just well thought out posts. I am on the fence about a new coach, but I agree it is time to either stay long term with this one or take one more shot and ride it out. I am not a Bama fan, but I would be on board with bringing in someone like a Saban to rebuild from the ground up. The one consistent thing that I hate from the last ten years is lack of intensity and motivation. Very hard to motivate grown men and spoiled athletes, but guys like Pete Carol seem to get the best out of every player. It is the mistakes and the and the willingness to quit that have me looking for someone who can motivate.
October 11th, 2015 at 8:25 am
What a crock of bull. Woody is on some strrrrrong medication. How is it that we as fans can so clearly see what’s wrong with the team, but Lovie (and apparently Woody) can’t? It doesn’t seem that difficult to me.
Lovie MUST admit his mistakes and scheme errors. Admit to himself his version of defense is an outdated model and modernize. He needs to SCHEME for
an offense. He needs to disguise coverages, disguise blitzes, move people around to create mismatches. Too often these guys are in static roles where the opposing OC just says, “ok we can do this an this and David is out of the play,” it’s too easy for them.
The offense needs time. Jameis needs to make mistakes and make more mistakes. He’ll learn, and he’ll put the team on his back soon enough. (Need a third WR pretty bad…) but there is not excuse for this defense. It’s revolting.
October 11th, 2015 at 8:40 am
Personally, I’m in favor of keeping a coach for 5 years to get his team together. If the dude is a bad coach, when his contract is up don’t renew it. Here’s my question to everyone wanting Lovie’s head. Is there really anyone that could do better? Anyone with a proven track record of success? There’s a reason it’s hard to find a good coach. Not everyone can be a head coach. Only a select group of people are truly able to lead a team and the few that can have been coaching the same team for 5+. Some coaches are better off as coordinators while some are position coaches. It takes just the right mentality to be a head coach. Everyone wants to be a head coach and make that money but a lot of coordinators just don’t cut it being a coach.
Give the coach time to create his team. The draft can’t solve everything and rarely does. Free agency has always been a crap shoot even for leagues without a salary cap, MLB. Now add that the NFL has a hard cap and not a soft one like the NBA and things get dicey.
In no way am I trying to defend Lovie’s because the dude record with the team is abysmal. What I’m saying is that the team should consider riding it out until the end of his contract so they’re not stuck paying multiple coaches. Who knows after another draft, preferably defensively heavy draft, the team can turn the corner. I think that firing a coach during the season never helps. Why is that? It’s because you’ll still have the same schemes in place and the mentality of the team would be difficult to change in the middle of the season. It’s funny, Lovie’s knew that his weakness was on the offensive side of the ball. To everyone’s surprise when went practically all offense his first two draft . Yet the team isn’t yielding results. Maybe when he starts really keying in on the defense the tides may turn.
I believe the offense is much better than last year and besides that drubbing from Tennessee week one, I don’t think anyone clearly outplayed us. It was more like we shot ourselves in both feet and knee caps. The team does well but penalties, missed opportunities and turnovers kills them. The offense screwing up doesn’t help the defense. It’s tough keeping opponents from scoring when their starting field position is in your territory. I understand that good teams manage to limit that or overcome it but when you compare the offense from last year to this year, it’s night and day. The defense seems to be regressing but I’m hoping it’s mostly due to fatigue of how much they’re on the field, plus the offense turnovers, and penalties.
i understand the outrage at what Lovie’s has managed to do with the team. But firing him anytime soon won’t be the answer, at least that’s how I feel.
October 11th, 2015 at 8:45 am
Should have kept Schaino. I honestly hope he gets another chance somewhere.
October 11th, 2015 at 9:28 am
Schiano didn’t lose his offensive coordinator just before the start of regular season and have to depend on a guy that had never called a play in his life not only at the NFL level but I don’t even think he’d even had that level of responsibility at the college level either. Has that ever happened to another team before and if so what was the outcome that season?
October 11th, 2015 at 9:33 am
Lovie Smith wasn’t hired because of his track record of developing a team, because he has none. He was brought in because he was the most NFL seasoned coach, and the Glazers thought he would lead a quick turnaround like Andy Reid in KC. Now that he’s proven to be a mediocre coach at best, it’s “Patience, time to wait a while?” Why? Because he’s simply not that good a coach?
Bad teams change coaches frequently because they make bad hires, not from lack of patience. The way I read people with Lovie, 2-14, 5-11, 8-8 is enough for year 4. That’s right, a 15-33 record should be guaranteed year 4. This is why we’re the laughing stock of the league.
October 11th, 2015 at 9:37 am
Lovie is a proven winner in the league but most of the players on this team aren’t. Ultimately that’s what did Schiano in he didn’t have the nfl level resume to deserve the benefit of doubt.
Listen to the podcast from a few weeks back where Derrick Brooks talked on the Steve Duemig about how long it took them to get all of the pieces in place to develop into a winning team. He mentioned how it wasn’t until about the 3rd year when they got Rhonde Barber that all of the pieces started to fall into place.
October 11th, 2015 at 10:42 am
I wish people would stop the Lovie bashing and support your head coach. Good, bad or indifferent, Lovie Smith is not going anywhere. This team has already gone through head coach after head coach. The Glazers are in this one for the long haul. Like it or not. If the Bucs don’t win today they may only win one or two games more this year. This is how it is. Deal with it.
October 11th, 2015 at 11:02 am
waterboy Says:
October 11th, 2015 at 9:37 am
Lovie is a proven winner in the league
___________________________________________________________
See this is simply not true. A proven winner does not miss the playoffs in 73% of his seasons. Obviously that’s not a whole lot of winning when you can’t actually make the playoffs all that often.
October 11th, 2015 at 11:05 am
I see a 3-7 start out of the first 10 games, then 4-2 in the last 6, equaling a 7-9 finish. Love stays, fans get all excited because the players are finally “getting” the system and by-God, the coaches must finally be getting how to put this roster in to game-ready shape.
Then the off-season comes, the first round pick will be on the defensive side of the ball in the middle of the round, too late in the round to be a sure bet, all the fans and media will be clamoring how the Bucs are on the verge of something big, and then the Bucs come out and lose 3 of their first 4 games. Immediately we all start this “the clock is ticking” on Lovie conversation all over again.
And then, for yet another fall and winter, I start paying closer attention to the college players trying to determine who I think the Bucs should draft to improve their team…..for the 39th year in a row.
Go Bucs!
October 11th, 2015 at 1:19 pm
I’m for waiting til the end of the year in deciding Lovie’s fate. So far, he’s been bad no debate there. As far as the glazers waiting 5 years to pay his contract no way. You have to make progress and win games or you’ll lose your fan base. That’s far more costly than Lovie’s contract.