The Worst Storm For Lovie
September 18th, 2015
Lovie needs “growth.”
Just this morning, Joe was in a local cafe sipping coffee while Joe’s truck was worked on, and Joe overheard two guys nearby talking Bucs.
And they were irate, aghast, livid about Lovie Smith’s defense that was on display last Sunday against the Titans.
Now this is five days later and Bucs fans are still peeved. That’s how badly this loss rocked the Tampa Bay community. Again, Joe hasn’t seen or heard this kind of outrage from Bucs fans since One Buc Palace was deloused for the MRSA.
Earlier this week, a Bucs fan called the best football show on radio, “Movin’ the Chains,” co-hosted by former front office type and part-time resident of Naples, Pat Kirwan, and former NFL quarterback Jim Miller, heard exclusively on SiriusXM NFL Radio.
This Bucs fan, wow, if you could hear the despair and frustration in his voice. “That defense,” he sighed as if he just accidentally burned a winning lottery ticket. Smartly, the fan did not take aim at America’s Quarterback, Bucs signal-caller Jameis Winston, for the loss (and neither did Kirwan or Miller) but correctly pointed blame at the defense.
Lovie’s defense.
Kirwan, in so many words, said the beatdown by the Titans was collectively the worst possible storm for Lovie. He believes, unless things turnaround quickly for Lovie, that the buzzards will continue to circle.
“First off, I think you have to pay very close attention to attendance now,” Kirwan said. “The worst thing that could have happened was [Marcus] Mariota coming to town in the opener. Because now, the point of reference is in place. It is not a debate. It happened right in front of everybody. So there are going to be those that say you drafted the wrong guy. You have that element. You are going to have the people that had their hopes up and knocked down with Mariota doing it to you and they are not going to any more games.
“[Tampa Bay] has fragile attendance as it is. And [the loss to the Titans] is a bad one. If the Packers came to town instead and beat you by the same score, I think the outlook would be, ‘Hey, we have a young quarterback and he is learning.’ But this Mariota piece to the equation in my mind took all the patience out of the equation for all of the fans.”
The attendance factor Kirwan raised was interesting. It reminded Joe of talking to long-time Cowboys director of player personnel Gil Brandt after Raheem Morris’ rough first year. Joe asked Brandt if he thought Morris had solid job security. Brandt immediately looked Joe straight in the eyes and asked, “How’s attendance?”
Once in a while, there is rancor at the headquarters of JoeBucsFan.com. One Joe believes attendance is old school NFL economics, 1970s economics that is trivial in the 21st Century, especially when the NFL distributed some $225 million to each NFL team last year from national revenue alone. The same Joe believes the NFL lifting the blackout rule is proof of this outdated mentality that attendance matters.
The other Joe believes attendance is vital from a revenue standpoint — billionaire owners are the types who care about $15 million a year here or there — that low attendance has a ripple effect not just from parking and concession revenue, but from the hit that corporate sponsorship(s) take (“Why should my company pay X when you are only drawing Y?”)
And local corporate revenue is big, big money.
Of course, all of this talk will be put on hold or vanish so long as the Bucs can beat the Saints Sunday.
Lovie’s got some coaching to do.
Remember, Team Glazer said its looking for “growth” this year. Last Sunday was anything but growth.
September 18th, 2015 at 3:11 pm
No more free FUKN passes Love Master. Make a change MF. Period!
September 18th, 2015 at 3:13 pm
Just wait on it.
September 18th, 2015 at 3:14 pm
3 MIND BOGGLING DISASTERS IN 17 GAMES, BYE BY THE BYE LOVIE…”simple as that”…
September 18th, 2015 at 3:16 pm
Can’t see a win right now but demand they at least be competitive after such a whipping. If they can’t at least do that then Lovie is completely dead to me. I wanted Mariota, but our quarterback is Jamies Winston. Need to ride with him. I have faith he will be fine. Lovie not so much.
September 18th, 2015 at 3:19 pm
I am officially firmly against this outdated Tampa 2
Therefore I’m firmly now against Lovie.
Unless by some miracle the defense works, Lovie needs to go.
September 18th, 2015 at 3:19 pm
Another straight up arse waxing, and FIRE LOVIE RIGHT AFTER THE GAME. THIS CANT GO ON ALL SEASON, million times worse than Schiano’s 2013.
September 18th, 2015 at 3:19 pm
“Lovie’s got some coaching to do.”
Any fool could see Lovie had some serious coaching to do for the Bucs first game of the season, their first home game and a game to show he and Licht aren’t idiots and picked the right QB. Outside of the CHI SB, it might have been the most important coaching job of Lovies career.
We all see how that turned out!
September 18th, 2015 at 3:20 pm
attendance is still the most vital statistic in any professional sporting event IMHO.
September 18th, 2015 at 3:24 pm
…….this is pointless
two more days until BUCS anger rears it’s ugly head again!
September 18th, 2015 at 3:25 pm
Hey guys I have an idea!!! Let’s fire Lovie and keep rotating coaches every 2 years just like OAKLAND!!! LOOK HOW GREAT THEY ARE!!!!
IDIOTS!!!!!
“It’s as simple as that” – Lovie Smith aka “Nobody is winning with these SCRUBS!”
September 18th, 2015 at 3:30 pm
Attendance is the end all be all buts it’s silly to think it doesn’t matter at all. That’s revenue and the owners are all about revenue
September 18th, 2015 at 3:33 pm
I could give two shiites about Oakland and what they’ve done.
Sometimes It’s crystal clear when a hire is a mistake REGARDLESS if you just gave him the damn job. You can either keep him around for pride sake and set the team back even further or move on.
My eye will be solely on the defense.
I don’t even care at this point if the offense struggles, with this line and with a rookie QB ITS EXPECTED.
The defense regressing? Unacceptable
I will actively protest this defense until there’s change if this kind of showing happens again.
September 18th, 2015 at 3:37 pm
OneLove Says:
September 18th, 2015 at 3:25 pm
Hey guys I have an idea!!! Let’s fire Lovie and keep rotating coaches every 2 years just like OAKLAND!!! LOOK HOW GREAT THEY ARE!!!!
IDIOTS!!!!!
“It’s as simple as that” – Lovie Smith aka “Nobody is winning with these SCRUBS!”
_______________________________________________________________
I have a better idea, let’s be like the Bengals and keep a totally mediocre coach so that we can not be a totally embarrassment, but still not actually win any playoff games and basically have the team amount to nothing.
“It’s as simple as that” – Lovie Smith aka “Only wins 30% of games against teams with .500 or better records”
September 18th, 2015 at 3:43 pm
I want to see one more game before I join Dandy Don in singing “Turn Out the Lights the Party’s Over.” But, as a safety precaution I might consider puking before the game like a form Buc’s QB
September 18th, 2015 at 3:47 pm
The Yucs are cursed. Cursed with ownership that knows nothing about football.
September 18th, 2015 at 3:57 pm
Everything is linked together. Attendance is based upon the fan’s feeling about the team. Regardless if they know what they are doing or not (it appears they do not), I do believe the Glazers want to win. They want the people in the community to be excited about the team and enjoy the product. They know the product has been awful, which is why they haven’t raised ticket prices in a good while (by NFL standards). They have just done a dreadful job of hiring the right people. However, I do think they care about the fans. If we are playing in front of empty stadiums with a 3-13 record at the end of the year, I do believe they will make a change.
September 18th, 2015 at 3:58 pm
Attendance is DEFINITELY a factor. Look at the Cowboys. Last time I checked, Jerry Jones is laughing his rich behind all the way to the bank because, no matter how competitive they are, they keep putting butts in seats. Cowboys fans are LOY. AL. (for the most part). Why so loyal? Entertainment. Not too long ago, the Cowboys weren’t very competitive, they had no defense, Romo wasn’t clutch at all….now things are different, but I’m willing to bet the attendance has been relatively stable throughout because Mr. Jones knows how to keep his fans coming back. The ‘Boys have HOPE every year. EVERY year. Unfortunately, we do not.
A decade of not being competitive will do that to a fan base.
September 18th, 2015 at 4:00 pm
You know…the Raiders may be swapping coaches every 2 years…but their defense was playing lights out….they did not win the game…but they had their ears pinned back and they actually acted like they wanted to play football.
I saw the same thing with teams like the Pats, Cowboys..etc…never stopped fighting. I mailed my apology to HC Tomsula with the Niners. I thought the Niners would have their lunches handed to them…but they were awesome! Defense…Offense…Special Teams…they were all playing like they were excited to be making millions to be playing the game that they love! The Falcons were also awesome!
The Buc’s just looked like they were going thorugh the motions…hurry up…let the game be overwith. Even if the Buc’s win on Sunday…if they are not motivated to play football..then I still say the coach must go.
September 18th, 2015 at 4:01 pm
Joe, you were right on when you called the game against the Titans a must win game. Now, all of us know that didn’t happen. Even worse, they wiped our butts all over RJS. Now, where does that leave us.
If, and that’s a big IF, we can win in N.O. and be competitive the rest of the way, this whole first game mess will be exactly that….just a first game. But, if we get smashed like that again this week, it’s all over for Lovie, his crappy coaching staff and most importantly….the fans. Take that to the bank.
September 18th, 2015 at 4:07 pm
After looking back at the game and seeing the backlash I think that the fans feel their season has ended after one game. I also think they are right! Basically if you can’t win the season opener against a rebuilding team like the Titans who exactly are you going to beat? What’s even worse is the fact that they have had all summer to make improvements on both sides of the ball. All we have heard is how good Winston looks in practice and how the D was swarming to the ball. I guess if you take a crappy offense and put it against a crappy defense someone will look good. Going to have to put a lot of toppings on to make this turd look good.
September 18th, 2015 at 4:12 pm
Very thoughtful work, Joe. In my 4 or so years of coming to your site this was one of my favorite articles.
Look, Lovie can’t take a loss like this past Sunday for a very long time. This fanbase will eat them alive and given the relative ease of their schedule, there are just no more excuses for Lovie Smith & Co. Beating the Aints will do this franchise womders right now and put the Saints fanbase in the position we are feeling now. And this goes way beyond attendance numbers
September 18th, 2015 at 4:20 pm
Moral victory in New Orleans is about all we can ask for and that is not nearly good enough.
September 18th, 2015 at 4:26 pm
It was just more than watching someone getting their a$$ kicked! It was like watching your Friend get beat down and thorough A$$ kicking by a Little 80 year old lady. You can never Look at the guy the same!!!!!
That beatdown and debacle will have lasting Ramifications!!!!!
September 18th, 2015 at 4:33 pm
Looking for something else admittedly, I came across an article posted on Mar 10, 2014 entitled ‘Lovie Smith: Bucs’ roster wasn’t set up with my systems in mind’ (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/03/10/lovie-smith-bucs-roster-wasnt-set-up-with-my-systems-in-mind/ ).
It got me thinking about how many players on the roster then (Mar 2014) are still with us. Looks like 14 players are still on the roster, which is only like 25%. And about half of those are non-starters.
Lovie has gutted the roster to set it up with his ‘systems in mind’. The problem would seem to be that if ‘his system’ doesn’t work, and Lovie gets fired, we’re left with a roster that’ll largely need to be gutted all over again. Yippee.
September 18th, 2015 at 4:37 pm
You’re damn right Joe we’re still peeved. I didn’t expect much this season, but all I ask is to be competitive. Go 0-16 for all I care just look like you’re competitive. This team looks worse than last season.
LOL Realist what is it that you always say? “Nowhere to go but up from here.” Well I’m challenging you on that one. This team is going backwards.
Yes Joe we’re still peeved.
September 18th, 2015 at 4:42 pm
Has a coach ever been fired in the NFL after the 2nd game of the season before?
September 18th, 2015 at 5:03 pm
most of you blame the defense but Marcus is that good he will make a lot of defenses look silly some of his throws were threaded in there and no one could defend and we passed on the best qb in the draft Wniston might turn out to be ok but ok wont win games most of what I read about statements made by Chucky Dungy and even the draft Guru himself said that Marcus was the pick and most if not all of you including Joe wanted this guy Marcus was the player that most of you and joe said needed developing turns out Winston is that man and you cant be upset at this point my hope is that he will be a good quality qb but we already have that in glennon so let up on the coach he just picked what all of you and joe wanted
September 18th, 2015 at 5:12 pm
My is that I am wrong and sunday was a fluke but we will all see on sunday iive been a fan since 1976 and i do not think ive ever felt that the bucs have no hope after just one game i wanted lovie hired here and thought he could bring us a winner but for whatever reason the players wont play for him
September 18th, 2015 at 5:14 pm
@buc1987
LOL, I guess my new saying is…. What is below the Bucs in the NFC South Cellar???? Lovie’s Basement!!!!!!!
September 18th, 2015 at 5:17 pm
Word of encorragment to ALL… Remember the Preseason Cincy game… This team has some good foot ball in them… I know it sucks it was game one but these highs and lows are to be expected!!!! Think about it!!! Are all the Titans fans seriously thinking about 16-0 and a SB run??? If so is that realistic??? The opposite is true as well…
September 18th, 2015 at 5:20 pm
What Jeff said. Joe’s I have to give you credit. You have totally changed the discussion from a broad based chat about the defensive and JW failures into it ONLY being about the defense. Let’s face it, Lovie didn’t throw 2 stupid picks and he didn’t trip over his own feet for a couple of sacks. He also didn’t miss open receivers and panic like JW did. We picked the wrong QB that’s Lovie’s big mistake. Even after he is fired and someone else comes in to fix the defense, we will be living with drafting the wrong QB. Simple as that.
September 18th, 2015 at 5:30 pm
2 Picks, even 1 for 6
*See yesterdays game
Does by no means equate to a loss by a team with a competitive defense.
Quit with the pathetic excuses.
It’s like fans are so used to failure now with over a decade of mediocrity that they know nothing else. Quit settling.
September 18th, 2015 at 5:43 pm
cometowin2 Says:
Can’t see a win right now but demand they at least be competitive after such a whipping
AGREE 100%
September 18th, 2015 at 5:45 pm
the way I think this season will end we will have a shot a number 1 pick again id like to know which qb joe likes where we can pick the other guy
September 18th, 2015 at 5:46 pm
Buc1987 Says:
You’re damn right Joe we’re still peeved. I didn’t expect much this season, but all I ask is to be competitive. Go 0-16 for all I care just look like you’re competitive. This team looks worse than last season.
LOL Realist what is it that you always say? “Nowhere to go but up from here.” Well I’m challenging you on that one. This team is going backwards.
Yes Joe we’re still peeved.
SOME OF US ARE JUST PLAIN OLD FASHIONED PISSED OFF
September 18th, 2015 at 5:59 pm
Its true. They got the better quarterback. At least in my eyes and until I see different thats what it is. I still think Jameis will be a hell of a quarterback eventually….but consistency will be key. I strongley beleive that kepping Kotter and Winston together will be crucial for his development in the league. The difference between him winning games as our quarterback and becoming backup.
I do agree though on the defense. A total ass beating on our home opener against the quarterback….three quarters of the quarterback we passed on. It was the worst possible outcome and it happened. I cant believe there were not fires outside of rayjay…
September 18th, 2015 at 6:01 pm
Had they wven been competetive on Sunday….I wouldnt have seen this loss as that bad….its the way that they lost….not the loss itself.
September 18th, 2015 at 6:21 pm
I expected struggles this year while Winston learned the ropes in the NFL. I did not expect a total train wreck for a defense. I will give it until the bye week to see if week one was a fluke or if this is just how it is going to be. If things do not improve drastically then I am reserving my right to officially throw in the towel. Some people will comment that anyone who checks out on their team is not a true fan, I say anyone who does not check out after witnessing the same results week after week is just a glutton for punishment and foolish.
September 18th, 2015 at 6:51 pm
Just as we used to, and expected to, win in the late 90’s, 2001 and 2002, the Bucs now appear to be used to, and expect to, lose. We’re back to the Bucs of the 80’s and early 90’s. For those too young or too new toe area, from 1983 through 1996, there were NO winning seasons.
Overall, the team record is 241 wins, 385 losses. That is a 0.385 winning percentage. the last time we were in the playoffs was 2007.
How can a team be that bad for so many consecutive seasons? We have drafted at the top of the list and still have not built a team.
September 18th, 2015 at 7:47 pm
The real bummer of the game was how the Titan’s seemed to win the game so effortlessly. That and how the Bucs lost the game so effortlessly.
September 18th, 2015 at 8:19 pm
All this talk about finally having an offensive coordinator but we haven’t had a defensive coordinator since monte. Jim bates? No Raheem was doing it shortly after and both schiano and lovie had their puppets in there. Would be nice to have one that is their own man
September 18th, 2015 at 8:31 pm
Just wait on it.
September 18th, 2015 at 9:27 pm
Urban Meyer
September 18th, 2015 at 9:28 pm
I think some of you guys are going to stroke out on Sunday. I definitely think the Saints will put up 48 on the Bucs. They’re at home and need a win. They will no doubt get it with Brees. If the Bucs couldn’t handle a rookie, do you really think they will handle Brees?
September 18th, 2015 at 9:41 pm
Maybe everybody should take a zanex and calm down. We have the Saints right where we want them. We intentionally lost against the Titans (there could be no other explanation for what I saw last Sunday). Which sets up the Saints for overconfidence and a loss. The Bucs coaching staff has pulled off what will be remembered as the coaching equivalent of a hail mary; lull the other team into thinking an easy game is coming, then pow!!!! You heard it here first.
September 18th, 2015 at 9:54 pm
Buc1987: Dennis Allen was fired last year after the Raiders started 0-4 and his squad was 8-28 in his 3 year + 4 game tenure as coach, not sure if the Raiders were heading into their bye week….. Someone mentioned Oakland above: well our Bucs are kind of like “Oakland East” now; 13-35 over the past 3 seasons; 6-27 over the past 2 season plus last Sunday…. A lot of similarities with how both teams have simply been bad for several seasons…. If the Saints win big and I can not see why they will not as Jameis and his OL simply will not be able to keep up with Brees and Company then I think the Glazers start making some arrangements behind the scenes to make a move at the bye week…. As for the game: I expect the Bucs to let NO score 42+ points and I really want to see if the offense can put up some points and not just in garbage time after the Saints are up 35-10 in the 3rd quarter and pulling their starters.. Do the Bucs make adjustments vs the Saints D schemmes so that Winston is not sacked 5+ times? Does Winston utilize Sims in the passing game? Does Martin get positive rushing yards?… I also want to see if special teams help this week; do the Bucs get good field position after the Saints kick off 7 or 8 times? Do the Bucs cover on the numerous punts well? Does the kicker make his FG attempts; does O’Dea have his special teams ready? But the defense: (sigh…..) I have no expectations except that brees could get 500+ yards if he wants….. Thanks Lovie!
September 18th, 2015 at 10:20 pm
Whether defense played poorly or not. 7 points vs starters won’t win you games.
September 18th, 2015 at 10:33 pm
The best part about playing the Saints now is no more Jimmy Graham. This actually gives me a bit of hope. The Saints no longer have their top receiving threat or top sack master from last year in Junior Gallette. The Saints also lost their first game. So, I would say that this is anybody’s game. Maybe Jameis can shake off his week 1 beat down and get back to his winning ways. Maybe the defense can start playing the way it did in the second half of last year. Who knows. Maybe Lovie Smith can save his hide for another week. If we can get back to .500 it will give us all reason to hope for a decent season. That’s all we really want…is HOPE.
September 18th, 2015 at 11:12 pm
^this guy, cause Tennessee is so stacked at wr
September 18th, 2015 at 11:24 pm
If we don’t win before the bye week is Lovie gone?
September 19th, 2015 at 12:01 am
Skyline Crew: yeah I think he goes because if the Bucs are 0-5 into the bye what is the best record that one can expect: 4-12 or so? Schiano actually had the Bucs playing well for the 3rd quarter of 2013 (after they started 0-8 they were 4-9 before dropping the last 3 games) and he got canned for winning 11 in 2 seasons. Lovie is not winning 11 games in 2 seasons; no way! I say that they give Koetter (or hell maybe Frazier) a 11 game job interview if Lovie goes 0-5 into the bye. Kind of like what Oakland did last year…. Will it help? do not know but I have a feeling that the team will be rock bottom if they lose to a 1-4 Jag team at home going into the bye week and it would be the best time to jettison Lovie with the bye week garbage and give the interim HC a week to regroup the team. Stopping Bortles might be the key to Lovie saving his job; who thought that it would be like this when the baby Glazers hired him????
September 19th, 2015 at 2:38 am
Did anyone hear Lynch say I told you so to the Bucs on the Herd today? REgarding Marriotta over winston
September 19th, 2015 at 9:00 am
cleared cookies!