When People Don’t Watch Games
April 9th, 2015
Sometimes when you listen to sports radio, you can pretty much tell right off the bat when a caller is either well-informed or is just throwing ignorant bulls(p)it out as fact.
Joe thought this while listening to arguably the best football show in the land, “Movin’ the Chains,” co-hosted by Pat Kirwan and Jim Miller heard exclusively on SiriusXM NFL Radio. The afternoon-drive-time duo took a call this week from a Bucs fan in Missouri, a guy Joe is convinced never watched one play of Florida State football last year, or maybe in the past two years.
This “Eric from Missouri” is a vocal member of the trade-down crowd, suggesting Jameis Winston is nothing more than a product of good blocking.
“I’m not convinced with Jameis Winston. I think he has really talented interior linemen and he is not going to have that in Tampa. … “
What!?
For a good chunk of last season, even though Winston had three future NFL players in front of him, that offensive line for reasons unknown largely struggled.
Only after Jimbo Fisher juggled the offensive line later in the season, and the Seminoles developed a running game with Dalvin Cook, did the offensive line block the way you would expect with three future NFLers.
No, Winston won’t have a good offensive line this fall in Tampa Bay, short of a major overhaul that Joe doesn’t see coming. But Winston already had fought through traffic. (For an idea of how Winston handles pressure, which many regard as one of his best traits, click the videos below.)
“Eric from Missouri” did the statgeek version of breaking down Winston, and a p!ss poor job at that, later stating how given the draft stock of said offensive linemen, Winston, therefore, didn’t have to deal with pressure.
Joe almost hit the floor. It was compounded when this same caller all but cried for the Bucs to trade down with Chip Kelly, and announced both his indifference and ignorance to the quarterback position.
When are people going to learn that without a quarterback you are basically urinating down your leg in the NFL? That a quarterback is by far the most important position on a football team?
Yeah, Lovie Smith made a Super Bowl with Rex Grossman. So does that mean the Bucs should draft Jeff Driskel next year? Why do people always look for the obscure and try to convince themselves it is the norm? Joe just wanted to ram his head through a wall after listening to this call. Geez.
The Bucs need a quarterback! My God, how people cannot see this is beyond Joe’s comprehension. Rare — as in once every 30 years rare — does a team get the pick of the QB litter as the Bucs do this year. Why p!ss that away? Because Rex Grossman once played in a Super Bowl? You cannot be sober!
Any other year might a good year to trade down and Joe would be on board. Not this year. Not this year. You can always get an offensive lineman. You can always get a linebacker. You can always get a defensive end. You cannot always get a young, talented gunslinging quarterback.
If the Bucs don’t draft a quarterback this year, then when? Very likely, the Bucs will not have this opportunity to draft No. 1 overall in the near future.
Again, for the head-in-the-sand masses who think Winston was just a byproduct of good blocking, Joe urges you to watch the two short videos below.
April 9th, 2015 at 1:06 pm
I listen to ” moving the chains ” all the time. The worst is there is always some callers from Tampa, So you get excited because they will talk about the Bucs. But then they always ask about another team!
I guess that that Tampa fans in Tampa are just getting their misinformation from a local radio show in Tampa!
April 9th, 2015 at 1:07 pm
Can we get a report on Winston’s bowel movements too?
April 9th, 2015 at 1:09 pm
Callers in Florida, too. You think a guy from Florida might talk Bucs and he asks about the Browns. LOL
April 9th, 2015 at 1:13 pm
Preach Joe.
April 9th, 2015 at 1:13 pm
You’re 100% on the money, Joe. Give me Jameis, give me Marcus, give me a QB that can give us fans hope. Let’s not overthink the obvious, find your QB and pick him at #1.
April 9th, 2015 at 1:15 pm
I like mike glennon. if the bucs are dead set on drafting a QB I would take mariota over winston. better yet they should trade the pic and rebuild the team.
April 9th, 2015 at 1:16 pm
I’ve seen Mariota make those same plays all the time ….. Said no one ever.
April 9th, 2015 at 1:18 pm
Jameis bowl movement report:
Mayock said it stunk to high heaven.
Joe reports absolutely no offensive smell at all.
April 9th, 2015 at 1:19 pm
That first highlight is a perfect example of why he through the picks his 2nd season. He took chances when it wouldn’t hurt his team. They were mostly like this or 3rd and long on the other side of the 50 yard line. The guy is smart and the team wasn’t as talented his 2nd year so he had to take calculated risk in order to win games.
The 2nd highlight is so Big Ben-esk.
April 9th, 2015 at 1:21 pm
You can tell people don’t watch games here as well when you hear them talk about One read and run. Automatically disqualifies the rest of your statement.
April 9th, 2015 at 1:22 pm
Lots of people in Tampa and Pinellas county are from some where else. My Dad and his family are all from Pittsburgh and are all Stiller fans, with me as the odd sheep Bucs fan. You can imagine my bliss when the Bucs won in Pittsburgh last September! 🙂
Very few people here are in fact Bucs die hards with people coming from Pittsburgh, Boston, NYC, Philly, DC, etc etc.
April 9th, 2015 at 1:26 pm
Please stop with the “they weren’t as talented”. Are we really saying Kelvin Benjamin was that big of an impact.
April 9th, 2015 at 1:28 pm
They won a game without Winston last year. Obviously, they weren’t that bad.
April 9th, 2015 at 1:29 pm
Good points and video examples Joe.
I see people say we need Mariota because our OLine sucks and he is the better scrambler. This is incorrect. Mariota is the better “runner” – but Winston is the better scrambler and is more capable of compensating for sub-par line play than Mariota. Winston also has more experience dealing with pocket pressure because of the difference in the offensive schemes.
April 9th, 2015 at 1:31 pm
@Walkdaplank thats been established already, He’s Constipated.
April 9th, 2015 at 1:31 pm
I’ll nah be havin’ th’ quiet, nice, lilly livered lad as me quartermaster. I’ll ltake th’ loud obnoxios scallywag, the one with scars, to run me ship. However th’ nice pretty lad would serve well as me new cabin boy!
April 9th, 2015 at 1:38 pm
Well, the FSU Center will be one of the first, if not the first, taken in the draft at his position.
They really were not that bad.
If the caller had been commenting on Mariota, I doubt we would have heard about it though.
April 9th, 2015 at 1:39 pm
“as in once every 30 years rare”
Yes, three years ago is VERY rare…C’mon Joes. The team with the number one pick has the pick of the litter EVERY year. Not every year has 2 QBs worthy of the pick, but it not “once in every 30 years rare”. More like twice a decade.
April 9th, 2015 at 1:46 pm
so, we need a QB and should draft a QB because of a “need”…as opposed to the “best player available” proven approach. Leonard Williams fits the BPA scenario. It’s him or trade down for picks. If Winston comes in and turns into trouble, this team is f**ked for another 10 years!
April 9th, 2015 at 1:46 pm
@Skyline
Please stop with Marcus is going to be the pick you bet on it, bravado. I offered this to you to bet on it a few times now with no reply. I’ll offer it again- You name it bet, I’ll take Jameis you can have the field. Until you put up, shut up.
BTW- I think saying FSU in 2014 wasn’t as talented as the national champ 2013 team was not much of a stretch.
April 9th, 2015 at 1:48 pm
joe you’ve gone hardcore with the film study lol please tell us has any passes mariota thrown traveled that far in the air or is it really the 5-10 yard dink and dunk show it looks like
April 9th, 2015 at 1:49 pm
Joe
“Rare — as in once every 30 years rare — does a team get the pick of the QB litter as the Bucs do this year.”
I agree with Dan….too f’n funny! I also think you meant to say “…the pick of the QB litter box…” Because, it’s literally a crap shoot!
April 9th, 2015 at 1:52 pm
You don’t get good quarterbacks hoping they fall from the sky. If teams are scared to draft, then trade all the picks. Then you will really see a crap team for years.
April 9th, 2015 at 1:56 pm
The Winston bandwagon wheels are coming off…. Haha I love it. Welcome to Tampa Mariota.
April 9th, 2015 at 1:58 pm
Those highlights are sick. Hard to call those passes flukes.
April 9th, 2015 at 2:03 pm
Supersam Says:
April 9th, 2015 at 1:56 pm
The Winston bandwagon wheels are coming off…. Haha I love it. Welcome to Tampa Mariota.
So you like losing?
April 9th, 2015 at 2:15 pm
You’re not suppose to draft by need but by the best player available. It has been shown that teams that draft by need end up struggling and these picks end up been bust . That’s why the have all these months to prepare there board
April 9th, 2015 at 2:18 pm
The draft is a crapshoot. I don’t see why people see Leonard Williams as the BPA. I looked at most of his highlights and most of his sacks are from his other linemen getting pressure and he is just cleaning up. He has flashed here and there, but imo he is more of a risk then JW. I could see if Williams had the same impact as Suh but he doesn’t and he is more of a DT anyway. He doesn’t have the speed to be a good edge rusher.
April 9th, 2015 at 2:20 pm
Edgewater
how those that mean that we are gonna continue to lose if we draft mariota ???? do you have a crystal ball because if you do I need does winning numbers . people talk about winston like hes a proven vet already .when hes just a rookie commin in that can be a bust lile more than half of the qbs the come in the first round
April 9th, 2015 at 2:22 pm
@Supersam,
Can you find me a mock that has Mariota coming to Tampa. I don’t think you understand the difference between Mayock putting Mariota #1 to the Bucs putting Mariota #1. I’ve yet to see a mock with us picking anything but Winston. All this stuff is fluff to fill in the time. It happens every single year. Hell, even RG3 visited Indianapolis. There were people claiming in April he would be better than Luck. It’s just the way things work. Happens every single year, yet you are somehow of the belief that this is the first time. Good luck with that.
April 9th, 2015 at 2:26 pm
Joe you are right, people don’t watch the games. On the field JW flat out is a better QB then any one else in the draft, it’s not even close imo. The OU’s offense tends to produce high QB stats. Grant it that MM did the best over the past 2 QBs; I just am not sold that he can succeed as quick as we need him too in the Buc’s new offense. I won’t be too upset if they draft MM, but I believe JW will end up having the career, because he is ahead of the curve in football IQ.
April 9th, 2015 at 2:37 pm
Mocks?? You can’t be serious? Every mock I read last year had Houston taking Manziel, how’d that workout?
April 9th, 2015 at 2:37 pm
Bucs55-
There is a big statistical bust rate difference between a 1st round QB selection and a #1 overall. Modern NFL bust rate on #1 overall QBs is about 1/4.
BuccoBrice-
Joe is not saying a great QB prospect only comes out every 30 years I believe he was referring to a teams ability to draft a top that top prospect. Hopefully we won’t be drafting 1st every year.
April 9th, 2015 at 2:41 pm
This is the #1 overall pick. I hope we aren’t rushing anybody onto the field to “succeed as quick as we need him too” We have Glennon for a reason. Let the guy learn a little on the sideline and build our O-line continuity before he gets his on-field experience.
April 9th, 2015 at 2:43 pm
This is the same thing I saw on the NFL network last night
“Mike from New York” came on and said that even though he thought Jameis Winston was the best QB since the offseason he now thinks that his INT’s are a cause for concern.
Does Mike from New York not realize that the college football season ended 4 months ago? That those 18 INTs were there when he had Jameis as his number one QB for the last 4 months?
April 9th, 2015 at 2:48 pm
Stanglassman Says:
April 9th, 2015 at 1:46 pm
@Skyline
Please stop with Marcus is going to be the pick you bet on it, bravado.
___________________
When did I say Mariota was the pick? Oh, I see because I question Winston that means I pick Mariota. I see. I see.
I’ve stated many times before I prefer Mariota, but the Bucs will probably pick Winston because we still have Glennon.
April 9th, 2015 at 2:49 pm
“Mocks?? You can’t be serious? Every mock I read last year had Houston taking Manziel, how’d that workout?”
——-
You must have been reading your mocks from the cheerleader magazines, because I never saw one mock that didn’t have Clowney going #1. Nice try though.
April 9th, 2015 at 2:55 pm
The days of a prospect “sitting and learning” are over. When you draft a player in the top 10, more than likely you draft them to start. I believe JW is ready to start now. If the Bucs needed him to sit and learn why draft him?
April 9th, 2015 at 2:59 pm
A list of #1 QBs
Luck – doing well so far
Newton – a few good years, but serviceable
Bradford – Bust
Stafford – Serviceable
Russell – Bust
Smith – He plays I guess
E. Manning – a few good years, but serviceable
Palmer – a few good years and injury prone
Carr – Bust
Vick- a few good years
Couch – Bust
P. Manning – Hall of Fame
Based on that we Winston will probably be serviceable, but nothing special.
April 9th, 2015 at 3:11 pm
Luck – Better than Glennon by 5 miles
Newton – Better than Glennon by 3 miles
Bradford – Better than Glennon when healthy
Stafford – Better than Glennon by 3 miles
Russell – probably not better than Glennon
Smith –Better than Glennon by 2 miles
E. Manning – Better than Glennon by 4 miles
Palmer – Better than Glennon by 2 miles
Carr – Not as good as Glennon
Vick- In his prime, 4 miles better than Glennon
Couch – Not as good as Glennon
P. Manning – Better than Glennon by 10 miles
Based on that, Winston will probably be miles better than Glennon
April 9th, 2015 at 3:18 pm
@Skyline Crew,
Also, did you realize that 8 of those QB’s have led their team to the playoffs? I’d take that any day of the week.
April 9th, 2015 at 3:22 pm
@Supersam
I’ve been searching high and low for any mock drafts at any point that had Manziel going to Houston. Still no luck. ESPN, NFL.com, CBS Sports, Fox Sports, Walter Football all had Clowney. It’s easy for you to write that everyone had Manziel #1, but oh so much harder to actually site proof. Again, I didn’t check the Hallmark channel’s mock draft, so there’s that.
April 9th, 2015 at 3:53 pm
Not sure what Glennon has to do with #1 picks as he was a 3rd rounder, but ok.
Also, that is fine that they went to the playoffs. RG3 went to the playoffs. Nothing wrong with that. I was referencing Stanglassman’s comment that “Modern NFL bust rate on #1 overall QBs is about 1/4.” I’d say by that list it is more. In my opinion serviceable is a bust as you aren’t anything special as a #1 pick should be. I can get serviceable QBs anywhere in the draft. A #1 pick should take you to the playoffs almost every year and be a special player not just average. Also, while Stafford may have been to the playoffs he has never been a Pro Bowl QB. I guess it really depends on what you mean by Busts.
April 9th, 2015 at 3:59 pm
“Supersam Says:
April 9th, 2015 at 2:37 pm
Mocks?? You can’t be serious? Every mock I read last year had Houston taking Manziel, how’d that workout?”
Now you are just making things up.
http://walterfootball.com/draftdata2014.php
April 9th, 2015 at 4:04 pm
“bucs55 Says:
April 9th, 2015 at 2:20 pm
Edgewater
how those that mean that we are gonna continue to lose if we draft mariota ???? do you have a crystal ball because if you do I need does winning numbers . people talk about winston like hes a proven vet already .when hes just a rookie commin in that can be a bust lile more than half of the qbs the come in the first round”
It’s Edgewalker, not edgewater.
Clearly your reading skills are about as good as Mariota’s in a nonspread.
I don’t have a crystal ball, but I can point to plenty of QBs in that Oregon system that didn’t do jack in the NFL. I can point to Winston running an NFL offense and making tight throws, which are needed in the NFL.
I can see the future and Winston is a winner and Mariota is a gamble.
April 9th, 2015 at 4:12 pm
bucs55 Says
“You’re not suppose to draft by need but by the best player available.”
The problem is that peoples view of the BPA differ…so it never actually happens.
What if the BPA is a QB every year? Then a team ends up with six QBs and no other needs filled?
BPA is non existent. All teams have a list of needs and all teams draft to best players possible to fill those needs.
April 9th, 2015 at 4:13 pm
Bucs4lyfe,
Jameis threw more passes under 5 yards than Mariota did. Don’t believe me? Look it up.
April 9th, 2015 at 4:16 pm
Edgewalker Says
I don’t have a crystal ball, but I can point to plenty of QBs in that Oregon system that didn’t do jack in the NFL. I can point to Winston running an NFL offense and making tight throws, which are needed in the NFL.
Can you also point to Winston leading defenses to his target with his eyes, causing those windows to be tight in the first place? Or Winston tripping over his own feet in the pocked?
No QB is perfect. If you think Winston can come in here and excel right away, you are setting yourself up for disappointment.
April 9th, 2015 at 4:16 pm
But they were prob check down reads no his first progression like WR screens.
April 9th, 2015 at 4:24 pm
So Winston is a one read check down guy. Captain Check Down is coming to Tampa.
April 9th, 2015 at 4:32 pm
Sky
I know you miss mccown but it will be alright.
April 9th, 2015 at 4:36 pm
Lol @ SuperSam, not one mock I saw had Manziel going first overall last year. They all said Clowney at the end.
@dan – joe is referring to the fact that a specific team gets the first pick in the draft once every 30 years (which is the last time the Bucs were in this position). He has made this point several times and it is a valid one. He was not talking about franchise QBs being available, but how often the Bucs will have the chance to choose the one they deem best.
April 9th, 2015 at 4:37 pm
LOL…McCown who? Should have never been a Buc.
April 9th, 2015 at 4:40 pm
Thank you.
April 9th, 2015 at 4:41 pm
@ Skyline. FSU was obviously a lot less talented in 2014. If you don’t think that then you don’t know much about the team.
They had a top defense in 2013, a top run game; and yes Kelvin Benjamin is a pretty big deal lol. Dude is the #1 WR on his team in the NFL and a huge target with no one else like him on FSU’s squad.
in 2014 FSU had the 60th ranked defense and the 80th ranked rushing attack. The only reason they were in the football playoffs is Jameis Winston. Without him they probably lose 4-5 games easy
So please tell me how FSU was a ultra talented team that carried their QB when their defense was terrible and they had no run game? how the hell does that make any sense
April 9th, 2015 at 4:42 pm
Texans have had the #1 pick 3x in the past 13 years.
April 9th, 2015 at 4:43 pm
Also, Browns and Bengals have had #1 pick in back-2-back years. Bucs have the #1 pick twice in back-2-back years. Will this be a repeat?
April 9th, 2015 at 4:52 pm
Serious question, is SuperSam just coming on here and posting stuff to get a rise out of people? If he is I will give him credit for being creative. The earlier comment about mocks saying Manziel was going to be the #1 pick makes me think he comes on here just to be funny. If that is the case I say well done Sam.
April 9th, 2015 at 4:56 pm
I didn’t say they were ultra talented. You guys are making seem as though they were there worst team in the NCAA if not for Winston. I said that isn’t the case. You guys won without Winston. Running game bailed the team out of a few holes. Defense played ok. They weren’t the offensive juggernaut that they were in 2013, but if Benjamin was your whole team how much did he really make Winston look better? Yes, he is the #1 receiver on his team…what competition does he have?
Let’s look at it this way. FSU put up 7,000 yds in 2013. They put up 6,000 yds in 2014. Not a real big difference. Like 70 yds a game.
Let’s ask why rushing was less. Was it because Winston put the team in a big hole at the beginning of games and was forced to throw more versus running? Was in 2013 because they led opponents by a lot and ran more? Those are the questions we should ask.
As to your defense. Oregon’s defense was more worse than FSU. So the only reason they were the playoffs was because of Mariota.
April 9th, 2015 at 5:07 pm
Skyline. Just stop.
No one is saying FSU was terrible. I’m just replying to what you’re saying; which was:
“Please stop with the “they weren’t as talented”. Are we really saying Kelvin Benjamin was that big of an impact.”
And my response is they weren’t as talented and it is blatantly obvious by every metric imagineable.
The run game was terrible early in the year because the line was terrible. No holes for the run game and Winston was the only offensive production. The line also wasn’t great at pass blocking compared to 2013; until late in the season when they moved Cam Erving and got Dalvin Cook going.
Winston only put the team in holes against Louisville and Florida in the 1st halves. He did play pretty bad in those halves I won’t deny that.
The defense was not good man. 60th in the nation is terrible. You’re just ignoring stats.
Oregon’s defense was bad as well but they had an insane running attack. Mariota faced WAY less 3rd and longs / passing situations than pretty much any QB in college football. They also played vastly better than FSU’s defense in the rose bowl. Forced 5 turnovers (only 1 of which was Winston’s fault) and did not give up big plays. FSU gave up big play after big play to wide open WRs.
Again; 80th rushing attack and 60th ranked defense is pretty freaking terrible for a team to go undefeated. You don’t think Winston elevated that team?
Oregon literally had close to double the rushing yards of FSU. Top 10 run game in college football. That makes a HUGE difference on how much the QB has to do as a passer.
April 9th, 2015 at 5:30 pm
Skyline: how do you account for the fact that literally anyone you put in the Oregon/Chip Kelly system puts up huge numbers? Mark Sanchez and Nick Foles looked like world beaters. Do you think it has anything to do with the fact that receivers are running open all day long?
April 9th, 2015 at 5:39 pm
If we take Williams we will have a D line similar in talent to the Rams or Buffalo last year. I didn’t see either of them in the Super Bowl.
Those highlights look like a fantastic NFL-ready QB to me.
April 9th, 2015 at 5:44 pm
…I’m just imagining plugging him into this offense with VJax, Evans, ASJ (still convinced he’s the real deal), Martin/Sims and a whole lot of
scoring if we can somehow shore up the O line. Take 4 O linemen. If you throw enough crap at a wall SOMETHING will stick.
April 9th, 2015 at 5:52 pm
Same daily crap over and over. Same stupid arguments. Sane stupid uniformed opinions. Give it a rest!
Arrrgggghhhh!!!
April 9th, 2015 at 6:47 pm
JBuc
Sanchez was anything but. Foles threw tons of interceptions. How were they wide open again? Also, not they don’t put up huge numbers. Mariota has blown all records set there out of the water, but let’s ignore that. Also, FSU’s system produces the same kind of QBs that put up the same kind of numbers as well. Please stop with the nonsense.
April 9th, 2015 at 6:58 pm
@Lord
I’m just saying that the reason they didn’t run as much was because of Winston putting them in holes in the 1st 1/2 with his terrible play. So naturally they didn’t run as much and passed more.
Also, the 3rd down argument is nonfactual. Oregon ranked 7th in 3rd down attempts attempted 198 3rd downs. FSU ranked 53 in 3rd down attempts only attempted 176. Yet, I’m sure of those 198 you will say they were all short yardage.
April 9th, 2015 at 7:05 pm
No QB at Oregon has thrown double digit INTs since Chip Kelly’s took bore the program at Oregon.
April 9th, 2015 at 7:23 pm
Skyline: whatever you say. Sanchez had career best numbers last year in 9 games. Also, convenient that you left out Foles 2013 season under Kelly where he went 28-2 TD to Ints.
Nobody is saying Mariota is not quality. You are the one spewing nonsense. Let’s be honest, if not for the off field stuff with Winston this isn’t even an argument.
April 9th, 2015 at 8:11 pm
If we had lousy WRs/TEs and needed to rely on QB elite speed a lot more i’d lean more towards Mariota too but we are pretty damn stacked at receiver.
Generally though in a QB elite arm is greater than elite speed.
April 9th, 2015 at 8:14 pm
@Joe
Exhibit A in your argument about the importance of QB’s is Bill Belicheat!!!
Until he LUCKED into Brady Belicheat had a losing record including a 5-11 first year with the Pats.
Bill Belicheat LIterally has won NOTHING without Brady!!!! He was a total loser before Brady and now he’s treated like some kind of freaking “genius.”
April 9th, 2015 at 8:52 pm
Except for that SB ring with the Giants as DC with prob the best lb corp in NFL history. But other than that you’re absolutely correct.
April 9th, 2015 at 8:56 pm
Sanchez put out his normal output. His best year was actually in NY with the Jets. He was on par with his TD/INT of his years with the Jets, but that is cool if you think he was somehow so much better with Kelly.
April 9th, 2015 at 9:46 pm
skyline: you are high. Dude, just look it up. Sanchez had career best numbers in completion %, yards per game, yards per completion, and would have blown out his highest total yards but only played 9 games.
Every year Oregon QBs put up huge numbers. It’s a fact. They run more plays than most teams. Their entire offensive philosophy is run plays as quickly as possible in order to tire the defense and keep them from changing coverages. He’s a great QB for that system. If we change to that system, then he should be our guy (maybe). But this is the NFL and it’s usually led by players who are led by Alpha Dogs. If you cant spot the alpha dog of these two then you don’t know what one looks like.
April 9th, 2015 at 11:11 pm
JBuc, If you really believe that then God Bless you son.
If an Oregon QB (Daroon Thomas who wasn’t drafted) putting up 2,880 yds is huge numbers then, WOW! If you want to say TD/Int ratio (66/17) I can give you that, but nobody at Oregon put up huge yardage like Mariota did. But to say Oregon QBs put up huge numbers is false. Mariota did no doubt about it, but the others before him did not.
April 9th, 2015 at 11:41 pm
Skyline you are just wrong sir, Jameis is better and I am done telling you why. Just watch those videos Joe posted and counter with anything from a physical standpoint that Mariota does that was equal. And I don’t mean running away from people as that will not work in the NFL but breaking tackles keeping your head up and makING a play down field. You won’t find it because it doesn’t happen. If he can’t out run them he usually folds or fumbles. Show me something to disprove that please.
April 10th, 2015 at 9:14 am
What am I wrong about? Sanchez? Oregon? You gotta be specific when I have about three debates going on.
April 10th, 2015 at 9:16 am
Also, there is video of Mariota shedding tacklers and throwing. It’s been posted before. Joe doesn’t allow links. Look it up yourself.
April 10th, 2015 at 9:53 am
“He scrambles like Kaepernick, sheds tacklers like Roethlisberger and throws with preternatural precision. It all points to Oregon’s Marcus Mariota as the No. 1 pick next year and sure-fire NFL franchise QB. But does he play it too cool?” -MMQB
April 10th, 2015 at 11:26 am
“Skyline Crew Says:
April 9th, 2015 at 6:58 pm
@Lord
I’m just saying that the reason they didn’t run as much was because of Winston putting them in holes in the 1st 1/2 with his terrible play. So naturally they didn’t run as much and passed more.
Also, the 3rd down argument is nonfactual. Oregon ranked 7th in 3rd down attempts attempted 198 3rd downs. FSU ranked 53 in 3rd down attempts only attempted 176. Yet, I’m sure of those 198 you will say they were all short yardage.”
Well you’re wrong. You are just simply wrong about that first statement. Go look at the play by plays of every game last year. The run game was bad a lot of the year simply because it was bad. Blocking was bad. Karlos Williams was dissapointing. I watched every single game; and to say that the run game was bad BECAUSE of Jameis Winston is one of the most insane things I’ve ever heard. Was the defense bad because of Winston as well?
Bottom line is most games FSU was forced into being a 1 dimensional passing team; and he was able to do that against a slate of top defenses and remain undefeated. I don’t care if they were in the ACC; they faced a lot of the top defensively ranked teams in the nation.
In regards to Oregon – I would expect them to have had more 3rd down attempts simply because they run more plays on average than FSU with their up tempo offense. I just checked and on average they ran 7 more plays a game; for almost 100 more plays on the year. So yeah, 100 more offensive plays would likely account for at least 20 more 3rd down plays.
I can’t find the numbers on average distance to go on 3rd down but I’m sure it would be revealing. I won’t assume anything though so I can’t really argue that point hard until I get the data.
But bottom line is Winston isn’t to blame for the 80th ranked defense and 60th ranked rushing attack. Historically the argument for that makes no sense; considering teams like Florida had top defenses last year with a MUCH worse QB than Winston; or how other teams with bad QBs still manage good run games. It simply doesn’t make sense and is a lazy way of attacking Winston’s performance.
So yes. FSU was much worse in 2014 than 2013 as a team. O-line, defense, and run game were huge dissapointments compared to 2014. And it doesn’t have anything to do with Winston.
April 10th, 2015 at 11:37 am
What don’t you understand? If a team is forced to PASS MORE they RUN LESS. Pretty simple.
2013 – 501 rushing attempts
2013 – 442 passing attempts
2014 – 451 rushing attempts
2014 – 516 passing attempts
I would believe that 50 less touches on the season would decrease our running game yardage, no?
April 10th, 2015 at 12:47 pm
LOL dude you are living in a circle of logical fallacy.
#1 reason a team relies more on the pass is typically due to an ineffective run game. They ran less because the RUN GAME AND RUN BLOCKING WAS INEFFECTIVE MOST OF THE YEAR.
Did you watch any games dude? Anyone who watched those games and thought FSU had a strong run game but Winston was ruining it with his passing is a freaking moron.
If you keep running for 1-2 yards you are going to face a lot of 3rd and longs and are going to pass the ball more. And if your defense is giving up 2X as many points as the year before; you are going to be passing more to keep up with the scoring.
This is so basic and so easy to understand for most football fans. But somehow FSU’s bad run game is Winston’s fault.
Somehow it is Winston’s fault that there were no holes for the backs and they were facing a lot of 3rd and longs when attempting to run on early downs.
Somehow it is Winston’s fault that the defense gave up 26.6 points per game compared to 11 points per game in 2013.
Let me repeat that last one. Remember you saying “stop with they were less talented”. Is that stat not enough for you? The defense literally gave up 2.5X the amount of points from 2013. That’s an insane dropoff. They were the #1 scoring defense in 2013. No where near the same team in 2014. But I’m guessing that it’s all Winston’s fault still.
April 10th, 2015 at 12:58 pm
Interesting, I never saw a team try to run when they were down by 14 pts. Interesting though that you believe that. Most teams start passing because they need the yards and TDs.
I don’t know why you think I’m blaming Winston for not creating holes for the RBs. That is silly. I never said the run game was bad either. I said they didn’t run as much because they passed more due to being in a deficit every game because of Winston’s slow starts and bad play in the 1st half of games.
Why are you blaming Winston for the defense? Are you high? Off your meds?
April 10th, 2015 at 1:02 pm
You guys use the line “we were way less talented than last year” when it comes to defending Winston. He put the team in the hole with his 1st half play. You think the defense enjoyed being on the field all the time? They were on the field less in 2013 and did better. You put them on the field more than the offense is on the field and they are tired. Winston’s 1st half of play contributed to FSU rough play in 2014. FACT.
April 10th, 2015 at 1:09 pm
For some more insight – on average rushing yards per game; FSU came out to 98th in the nation (even worse than their general rushing ranking).
In yards per pass; FSU was one of the top teams; meaning their pass game was effective on a per-play basis. It wasn’t like volume enhanced their passing numbers.
Let’s go game by game on some 1st half rushing. I’ll start with OK State.
In the 1st half – FSU had 10 run attempts for 34 yards. 2 of those were 11 yard runs. Meaning they had 8 rushes for 12 yards on the other attempts.
Looking at the play by play you can see some 3rd and shorts that failed; and in general complete ineffectiveness on 1st down for the most part running. The only way they got big plays was with the pass; in which Winston was able to generate 200 yards of offense.
He also had 2 interceptions in this 1st half. Do you think the run game was inneffective cuz of that; or isn’t more likely that it was ineffective because… it was ineffective? 8 rushes for 12 yards is pathetic for a school like FSU. I don’t see how that has anything to do with turnovers. If anything; the running game should have been more open with the amount of chunk plays Winston was getting in the pass game.
April 10th, 2015 at 1:18 pm
Skyline your argument of “Winston put the team in holes” as an explanation for the ENTIRE FSU team not being less talented is so short sided; so lazy; and utterly baseless when you examine the individual games and metrics and what happened.
The FSU team in 2014 was much worse of a TEAM than the 2013 TEAM. Winston’s turnovers account for maybe 10-20% of that reason; but you are acting like it is the primary 100% reason.
I’ll agree that he made some bad decisions and forced too many balls. But I’m trying to argue that him forcing passes goes hand in hand with the rest of the team being such a dissapointment. If the ONLY thing we could do well is pass and our defense isn’t getting stops; then of course we are going to pass more and force more balls; because the other option is to just punt constantly and watch the other team keep scoring while we lose.
Winston’s interceptions don’t matter if the team is averaging 1 or 2 yards per carry the entire 1st half. His interceptions have absolutely nothing to f*cking do with that. That’s the point I’m trying to make that you won’t accept.
98th ranked team in average rushing yards per game. 80th ranked defense. Gave up 26 points per game versus 11 points per game in 2013. Averaged WAY less yards per carry.
The team wasn’t in catch up mode because of Winston’s picks except for 2 freaking games. FSU was up on OK state even with Winston’s picks; because he was still able to move the ball to the equivalent of 200 yards and put points on the board despite the run game essentially not existing.
I don’t think Winston is some flawless god of football; but I also think that it’s insane for someon to attribute all of FSU’s struggles to him. He has every tool you want as an NFL QB when it comes down to it; and executes / leads / performs as clutch as you could want.