Two Years For Jameis? What About The Defense?
April 23rd, 2015
So Lovie Smith will have a new job — or no job — if he can’t develop Jameis Winston in two years, says former Bucs defensive tackle Booger McFarland.
Joe saw Booger drop that take on Twitter yesterday, and Joe immediately had another thought:
What about the defense?
How many years does Lovie get to develop an above average defense? That is supposed to be his specialty.
Last year’s defense was ugly. It improved — up from horrid — as the year progressed, but Lovie failed to get the most out of Lavonte David, seemed intent on playing a guy who didn’t want to play (Michael Johnson), had too many players struggling to learn despite proclaiming his coaching staff is filled with “stern teachers,” and Lovie didn’t make adjustments.
How exactly did Carolina beat the Bucs for a second time with the same Derek Anderson-Greg Olsen combination in December?
Bucs fans assume Lovie will get the defense right, just like Dallas did after fielding one of the worst defenses in league history in 2013. Last year, the Cowboys’ defense was strong and made the playoffs.
But what if Lovie and his team of defensive gurus can’t put a solid defense on the field this season?
April 23rd, 2015 at 9:03 am
Lovie can coach fine / now lovie the gm is another story
April 23rd, 2015 at 9:04 am
Well, let’s think about it.
They got rid of 2 safeties, a middle linebacker and a defensive end, and they also needed another defensive end.
So they have 5 holes to fill on defense, not counting an optional 3rd CB.
Is it even possible to fix all the holes this year?
H3LL no. Especially when they have 4 holes on offense to fill as well, and need a punter too.
April 23rd, 2015 at 9:06 am
It’s impossible to fix this team this year. That said, it was Jason Lost and Lovie who created most of the holes, all at the same time.
The smart thing would have been to do a few at a time.
Now we’re no better than an expansion team using scrubs to fill holes, hoping to not go winless again.
April 23rd, 2015 at 9:06 am
Bonzai they got rid of two defensive ends
April 23rd, 2015 at 9:07 am
Yes, I know, but one wasn’t really a starter because he was off the field all the time.
April 23rd, 2015 at 9:08 am
Really… You’re upset because we didn’t spilt with the Panthers? The next 2 seasons will tell the tale. This season for the defense, the following for JW and the offense. A decent season this year, an upset of a team or teams. I expect a strong 2016 season.
April 23rd, 2015 at 9:08 am
joe says-So Lovie Smith will have a new job — or no job — if he can’t develop Jameis Winston in two years. No. Booger McFarland said that. –Joe
here we go again… lovie smith and the bucs have not indicated whom they plan on drafting. more of the same brainwashing technique impressing on peoples minds something that is an opinion not a fact.
April 23rd, 2015 at 9:10 am
What if is a strong question and could be put in any kind of context. What if Lovie goes 9-7 with a mediocre defense and a rookie QB? “what if?”
April 23rd, 2015 at 9:16 am
No, we’re looking at a horrid season, since we filled no starting role in free agency.
Accepting that, let’s put things in perspective in regard to the draft.
It’s pretty certain we are taking a quarterback with the first pick, barring some incredible blockbuster trade (which Jason Lost is incapable of pulling off).
So we have to protect the quarterback well enough to at least keep him healthy. Therefore, we have to go offensive line in rounds two and three. Except for one circumstance.
If Eric Kendricks is still there when we pick in round 2, we HAVE to take him. He’s the Luke Kuechly of this draft, and would fix the MLB spot instantly. He’ll even produce this year. It would mean OL in 3 and 4.
Otherwise, go offensive line in 2 and 3.
April 23rd, 2015 at 9:17 am
Also, center should be the first OL pick we make. Then we can move EDS over.
April 23rd, 2015 at 9:18 am
Hey destin johnny, we should catch a bucs game together sometime.
im just over the bridge…
April 23rd, 2015 at 9:22 am
bonzai, we just signed bruce carter to play middle linebacker. we have bigger needs at OL and DE than linebacker. It is a nice to have, but not a need.
April 23rd, 2015 at 9:22 am
Above average or better QBs will still shred this defense without a pass rush. They’ve really not addressed the pass rush at all in a meaningful way. So yeah quite possible the defense isn’t better at all next year.
April 23rd, 2015 at 9:22 am
Like an expansion team. How about just expanding to beat a division foe or win a freaking home game. This team was worse than the first season’s winless team, imo.
April 23rd, 2015 at 9:29 am
NicevilleLawrence Says
“bonzai, we just signed bruce carter to play middle linebacker.”
I hate to break it to you, but Bruce Carter is injury prone and a depth signing. You don’t pass by a potential hall of famer.
April 23rd, 2015 at 9:30 am
yawn….we all know the offense was the main issue last year, if you think about how much the defense was on the field yea the stats were bad but they turned it around after the bye which simply meant it took too long to learn the defense for these players and handicapped by the ghost upfront. leonard Johnson in the slot would kill any defensive stats and we know we had no strong safety tandem on the back end, we’ll see if it was upgraded
April 23rd, 2015 at 9:30 am
bucs will be much better on defense just because its the second year in the system for many guys in the team, as a result you go to training camp already with confidence with the playbook so im not really concerned as long as they show improvement
April 23rd, 2015 at 9:33 am
When they screw up this draft, Lovie will see his head coaching days come to and end. But Hay, we have been screwing up the draft for the last 12 years.
April 23rd, 2015 at 9:34 am
all these what if’s lately, i got one for you @joe. what if glennon wins the starting job next season and plays great lol, i know you wouldnt like that. That would be fantastic if the Bucs are winning. –Joe
April 23rd, 2015 at 9:35 am
It will be Winston’s fault just like it was all Glennons fault for playing behind the worst O-line for the last 2 years. Everybody wants to give Winston a couple years to be relevant but yet they wouldn’t afford Glennon the same luxury. Remember Joe, QB’s win games, not o-lineman or defense. Using the same excuses to protect Winston that you wouldn’t give Glennon is bs. Winston will just have to outscore what our defense gives up. No excuses….
April 23rd, 2015 at 9:40 am
@SAMCRO…
when (not if) Winston wins as many or more games in his rookie year than Glennon has his entire Bucs career, there will be no excuse.
April 23rd, 2015 at 9:40 am
@samcro you are right glennon got basically thrown in by schiano two years ago, and last year he had the lead against the vikings and the saints , unfortuantely our defense wasnt able to close the deal, im not saying he played great last year but with a terrible o line and a no experience offensive coordinator it couldve been worst.
April 23rd, 2015 at 9:51 am
@BuccaneerBonzai
Potential HOFer. Really. Your are talking about kids not drafted yet as potential hofers.
All the draft picks are Potential HOFers. its a crap shoot.
April 23rd, 2015 at 9:54 am
Then Jon Gruden makes one more point clear:
“If any of these teams picking, I’d be surprised if they did not take Marcus Mariota. He is a rare prospect. He has some can’t-miss qualities, if you can bring him along and have just a little bit of patience to give him the correct direction. He could be one of the great quarterbacks of the future of the NFL.”
“This stereotype of Marcus as a spread quarterback that runs the read-option every play is ridiculous,” Jon Gruden said. “He’s very poised. I’ve seen him go through progressions, and they run some common NFL route combinations. He put a lot of points on the board. He’s been asked to do a lot … He learned the Oregon offense inside and out and he’ll learn your offense. It’s a matter of you teaching him and surrounding him with a good support system, good players, good contingency game-planning and he has an opportunity to be great.”
April 23rd, 2015 at 9:55 am
The Dallas defense got better yes, but they weren’t good. If you gave us their offense, I’m sure Lovie would have a statistically better defense than they had in Dallas last year. News flash – our offense is going to suck it big time regardless of if we draft Jameis or not. I’ve felt bad for the defense for the better part of the last 20 years.
April 23rd, 2015 at 9:55 am
Booger says Lovie has 2 years and folks here think Mariota should be the pick. Booger is telling you the pick should and will be Winston.
April 23rd, 2015 at 9:56 am
Marcus Mariota should be the pick, unless Licht and Lovie wanna be looking for work in 2 years. http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/166712/jon-gruden-calls-marcus-mariota-cant-miss-says-teams-drafting-high-should-pick-him
April 23rd, 2015 at 9:59 am
LOL…
@Joe, what did i do to get in the pentalty box?
April 23rd, 2015 at 10:03 am
I hear people saying we need a 3rd CB? come again? we have banks and verner locking down starting positions, we also have jenkins who is decent, and we signed sterling moore, CB is a position of strength right now.
Holes on D are limited to FS, 1DE, and MLB,
I have faith in Bruce Carter as the MLB, with george johnson signed and also rotating henry melton in, as well as maybe a 3rd round pick on a DE like Nate Orchard or Danielle Hunter if they fall to us , the DE position should survive this year until we can draft a stud in next years draft,
Spend a mid round pick on a MLB for depth behind Carter, and draft a FS to compete and honestly this defense will be pretty good.
and great once we get the stud DE in 2016 draft
April 23rd, 2015 at 10:04 am
You know, how the hell is Lovie even a HC? The man doesn’t know the first thing about offense, and now we’ve seen his special teams without Devin Hester and it ain’t pretty. How did he ever become anything more than a DC? That baffles me.
The team was already in a nosedive, it seems Lovie, instead of pulling the Bucs out of it, decided to go full throttle straight into the fukking ground.
April 23rd, 2015 at 10:14 am
Bonzia:
look at the signings, I thought we got a corner form dallas and resigned Jenkins . We also have some from last year.
thought a safety was brought in and a MLB.. Not like the MLB we had before wasn’t injured most of the time.
Defense does need help a 4-12 season again and LOVIE has to go.. 8-8 should be the worst he can do to keep job after the millions he threw away in FA last year.
April 23rd, 2015 at 10:25 am
As much as so many fans want Lovie gone, it has been proven time and time again that is not the recipe for success. We have all become too impatient, and expect immediate results, when often times that just isn’t possible. Sometimes as people on the outside, we don’t know or understand where the real problem lies. That being said, we need to show significant improvement over last year. I’m not even going to put a win total on it, but the last couple years (and really all but maybe 2 since Gruden was fired) have been pure misery, and something needs to change. I really don’t want to see us blow this thing up again, but in today’s world, that’s probably going to be the reality.
April 23rd, 2015 at 10:33 am
“It will be Winston’s fault just like it was all Glennons fault for playing behind the worst O-line for the last 2 years. Everybody wants to give Winston a couple years to be relevant but yet they wouldn’t afford Glennon the same luxury.”
——-
First of all, welcome to the real world. As a #1 pick, Winston is going to get more of an opportunity than a third round guy. If you don’t understand or believe in that, then I really can’t help you. You see, first of all these guys get paid money. The people who are picked earlier get paid more. You see how that works? If you bought a $150,000 car and a $15,000 car, which one are you going to want to drive?
If Glennon wanted to have more of a chance to be the franchise QB, he could have done 2 things: 1. Be better in college, so that he was picked higher. 2. Be better in the pros. Win some games. Don’t run out of bounds a yard before the first down marker on third down. Show some heart. Stop under throwing the deep ball when you have 2 excellent deep ball threats. Glennon had opportunities to take the job, but he failed. You can blame the OL and play calling (which is legit), but the bottom line is that he is a third round pick and he didn’t get the job done. It’s not completely fair, but it’s not completely unfair either. It’s business, and it’s not going to change.
April 23rd, 2015 at 10:42 am
“So Lovie Smith will have a new job — or no job — if he can’t develop Jameis Winston in two years”……….WTF???? All I’ve been hearing for months is how Infamous is already “NFL ready” !!!! Or maybe he means 2 years to develop his character.
April 23rd, 2015 at 10:49 am
Two years why?
All I see is Winston now will change this time. He is the Dream..
87 where are u tell these people how we are going better than 500 this year with Famous
Two years please..He takes Winston He has this year or obviously he can’t coach because He Got Winston..
April 23rd, 2015 at 10:51 am
After all these years of losses and let downs, the only thing I can remember working on offense is having fiery playmakers! We no longer have a fiery coach, but we do have a couple of players that where the only bright spot last year.
Mike Evans = Fiery playmaker
Vjaxs = Mature, yet still a fiery playmaker
Now add Winston = Fiery playmaker
April 23rd, 2015 at 10:55 am
Mariota is the QB that will take 2 years to develop that’s why we need Winston he is Pro ready..
That’s all the Winston lovers scream.
So the PR train continues….Winston is the Best Pro Ready. Mariota will take to long..(Oh well maybe a couple years for Winston)
Everyone wants to trade up for Mariota…Oh wait today everyone is calling for Winston…
Sounds like a used car guy trying to sell you a bridge in the desert
April 23rd, 2015 at 11:04 am
Bonzai you’re a pretty hardcore pessimist. You probably think its realism but to me it’s just hardcore pessimism.
The 5 spots you think need to be filled were all upgraded throughout the year last year.
We let go ineffective DEs as we found more effective DEs (Jack Smith; others flashing potential; signing a 6 sack rotational guy). We UPGRADED the DE position yet you think we created a bigger hole by letting Michael Johnson go. Pure Pessisms. The DE is a position of need since Lovie’s defense requires good ones but we upgraded that position objectively speaking and statistically speaking over the course of the year and furthur in FA. Clayborn/Johnson were not contributors to why the D-line got going later in the year.
We replaced one MLB who was ineffective in the scheme for one who should be effective based on history. Upgrade at MLB. But to you its somehow a new hole lol.
We got rid of ineffective safeties for the system; and found a safety later in the year who played better than either of them. FS is a hole but McDougald earned every right be a starter next year. I’ll give you 1 safety position; but honestly its not like Goldson was one of our better players so not like we lost an asset. We likely will see improved play just from one of Lovie’s ex system guys.
You mention an optional 3rd CB. Do you not remember we signed Sterling Moore?
So after objectively looking at this – over the year / in offseason; we upgraded DE productivity and personnel; upgraded Safety productivity and personnel; and upgraded our MLB personnel (we’ll see on productivity this year); but in your glass half forever empty view; we created holes in those positions by improving them.
If you want to question whether or not we improved those positions over the year with the moves we made; just look at how many points and big plays we gave up in the 2nd half of the year versus the first; and how many sacks we had to close the year versus how we started.
April 23rd, 2015 at 11:18 am
They were clearly tanking this season!
April 23rd, 2015 at 11:20 am
BUCS points allowed per game on the 2014 season: 25.6 (25th in the NFL)
BUCS points allowed per game first 6 games of season before bye: 34 (would be the worst by far in NFL)
BUCS points allowed per game last 10 games of season after bye: 20.6 (would be 9th in the NFL season averages right behind Patriots)
This defense improved. There were no “holes” created over the year. If anything; over the year we were identifying those holes and doing our best to fix them.
You can look at sacks in those streches of games and you will see a very similar trend.
Offense is a whole nother story; but I’d be VERY surprised if this is not a top 10 defense next year. Considering they added DE / MLB / CB / S that fit the system and they are coming off a 10 week stretch of being a top 10 D; giving up 23 or more points in only 3 of 10 games.
April 23rd, 2015 at 11:28 am
That would be fantastic if the Bucs are winning. –Joe
Hey Joe what would be your adjective if we do draft Mr. Winston and he is not winning? He does get 2 years to show what he can do, is that two years without a average oline. As you have stated before that QB’s “great QB’s ” can make their oline and offenses better by shear will alone. That almost sounds like a old school comics tag line.
Surveying along the roadside in Atlanta area today meet a Buccaneer fan dressed in buco Bruce hat and t shirt, asked him his take on the upcoming draft. He is all for taking Mr. Mariota and trying to trade down with someone who wants Mr. Mariota more than we do. He is all for building up or sad state of Oline. He is a Big fan of our current QB Mr. Glennon, thinks Mr. Glennon has been put in a foul situations and has done a good job while being I that situation…
April 23rd, 2015 at 11:30 am
@ATrain Everyone wants to trade up for Mariota because he will be available. You can bet that even more teams would trade up for Winston if they thought that the Bucs would be stupid enough to pass on him.
April 23rd, 2015 at 11:31 am
There plan is pretty obvious.
They draft Jameis, OT, Guard, Center, Wr.
Sign Adrian Peterson.
Put in pot, close lidlet cook this year- next year should start to be danderous.
Next year Draft DE, CB, Safety, MLB
Last year was skill position draft. Evans, Sefarian -Jenkins, Sims should all be in to form by next year.
3 yeas from now. We are a good team.
At least they have a plan.
Better that Dom/Mortis/Shiano ever managed
April 23rd, 2015 at 11:39 am
Lovie, if that’s the case then you should get an early start to your packing.
Winston will be nothing more that a coach, GM and franchise killer. Looks like more time in your basement will be coming
April 23rd, 2015 at 11:39 am
Let’s go through the ROSTER SIGNINGS so far this year, shall we?
CB JENKINS
Only 2 full seasons of 7, due to INJURY ISSUES. Never had more than 51 tackles (and that only once) and had 5 picks his second year, then sucked from there on.
S CHRIS CONTE
Struggled with injuries AND was never that good to start with. He’s only had one compllete season in his career, and his production has been almost nil. When Ruud was here, he had plenty of tackles, 75 plus. Conte has passed 52 once, and last year he had only 24 in 14 games. HE SUCKS.
LB BRANDON MAGEE
Already waived by the team, and was no more than a body to begin with.
DB STERLING MOORE
He’s the player you mentioned from the Cowboys. The one with only one complete season and no production in his 4 years. None. HE SUCKS.
DT HENRY MELTON
Not only is he no good and is pure depth, he also has behavior issues and almost got diactivated the final two games of the season.
MLB BRUCE CARTER
Four years in the league and he has NEVER made it through a complete season.Oh, he had 5 picks last year. Big deal. He has zero every other year. He had tackles worth mentioning only one year (not last year) and he has INJURY ISSUES.
CB LEONARD JOHNSON
You’re joking, right? I have no idea why this guy is even still in the NFL. Also has had injuries.
S MAJOR WRIGHT
Only played one complete season out of five due to INJURIES. His production has never been better than a rotational depth player, yet we will likely start him?
DE LARRY ENGLISH
One complete season in six played, due to INJURIES. Once a first round pick, the most sacks he’s had in a season are 3, and that was way back in his second year…when he was healthy for only 8 games.
DE LAWRENCE SIDBURY
A 2009 fourth-round pick of the Falcons, Sidbury has earned playing time in just one game of the past two years. He’ll compete for a roster spot. He has INJURY ISSUES as well, having been on IR last year.
TE LUKE STOCKER
Resigned for depth, everyone knows Stocker has had INJURY ISSUES. Has just 35 catches in his four-year career.
LB JASON WILLIAMS
A special teams contributor, if he remains on the team, Williams has NO COMPLETE SEASONS in 6 years of play. INJURY ISSUES.
P CHASE TENPENNY
Never played a down in the NFL. Clearly not good enough, because hte Bucs had to sign yet another punter later.
P ANDREW WILDER
Never Played a down in the NFL. Competing to remain on the roster or make the practice squad. He’s the 3rd punter on the team, the second with no NFL experience.
So there you have it. The only two signings without injury issues were the two rookie punters…who will probably not make the team.
So come one…tell me we’re going to have a good season.
April 23rd, 2015 at 11:41 am
There’s your reality check, people.
April 23rd, 2015 at 11:43 am
@Capt.Tim
If they get Adrian Peterson, just what picks do you think they will have left in the draft????
April 23rd, 2015 at 11:44 am
Luther, that is really funny. Beleive me, nobody wants to trade up to get JaMarcus “Turd” Winston
April 23rd, 2015 at 11:47 am
12 of 14 signings this year have injury issues and none of them have ever produced.
April 23rd, 2015 at 11:48 am
Why do people think AP is coming? Because they know Lovie and Licht are terrible at asset management and will likely give up 2-3 premium picks for him? I guess, but I also guess most people think AP will cost no more than a 3rd round pick which sort of shows how out of touch some people are.
April 23rd, 2015 at 11:49 am
The Bucs need to follow the model of the Steelers. Develop stability with the coaching staff and be patient. I think most rational people would agree that the Steelers have been a much more successful organization than the Bucs even if you just look at the Steelers starting in 1976. We have had more head coaches in 10 years than they have had in their existence.
April 23rd, 2015 at 12:00 pm
Just comparing Winston to Jamarcus Russell invalidates your opinion and I have nothing to say to you. They have absolutely nothing in common other than being black and being coached by the same guy.
April 23rd, 2015 at 12:06 pm
SUPERMARIO!!!SUPERMARIO!!!SUPERMARIO!!!
April 23rd, 2015 at 12:09 pm
Luther, sorry dude, didn’t mean to ruin your morning by throwing some truth and reality at you. I know that so many Winston supporters live in Fantasyland
April 23rd, 2015 at 12:19 pm
I really do like Lovie, I just wonder if modern day football has passed him by. I am not now or have ever been a Winston “Hater” but if I were a head coach I ‘m not sure that I would risk my job on him or not. Too many “ifs” and “maybes” concerning him
April 23rd, 2015 at 12:21 pm
@Bonzai —
You are one of the more respected commenters on this board, and I always appreciate hearing your opinion and analysis. So — here’s why I disagree.
First, the Lovie defense needs system-specific players. Last year we were all hyped up about a T-2 with the 3-technique and the Will in place. But this defense needs a Mike to play in space, a speed edge rusher, and a FS to function properly. I was hoping for Shazier last year, as it should have been clear to all that Foster was a Sam, at best. While I wish him well, Foster was just “a guy” and not “the guy.” The hole was there already.
As for filling in the offensive holes, it looked clear at the time and more obvious in hindsight that Tedford was to be the “guru.” A wrong choice, perhaps, but that was the plan. Tedford got ALL the picks, and his choices even make some sense from a spread-offense perspective– Sims is maybe an average runner but showed high promise in the pass game. Tedford was aiming for tight end pressure in the middle but that did not work out. In short, I see last year’s draft as sop to the OC and so some players will not be transferable to the new scheme. The two 5th round o-linemen will determine whether that draft was ok or a crater.
Finally, it is easier to find an ok FS than a usable DE. I wonder if Nate Orchard is a priority for R-3. If so, the D will be upgraded and ready. (Every team has some holes; we could make due with a below average Sam better than an average 3-technique). And the development of the offense will factor into the D-rating: if the Bucs can sustain drives to eat clock and score to make the other team take chances, this could develop into a good team indeed.
Over the last two years the Bucs have been snakebit. For six years before that the term was just bad. If we can revert to the mean we might go 7-9 this year. Organizational improvement is slow and annoying but we need to build a strong base that can last, not a one-year wonder.
April 23rd, 2015 at 12:25 pm
The Bucs won’t need to worry about developing a QB with the #1 pick. They will select a Petty or Hundley(sp) in the 2nd so that there’s little pressure to start ’em.
The pick is Leonard Williams.
That way if we get even just average offensive production we should be OK.
“Defense wins championships”, Patriots anyone?!
April 23rd, 2015 at 12:32 pm
If Lovie and Licht really do want to win now, and for the next 5-6 years, they should be on the phone with the Chargers. You should always take a sure thing over a huge risk
April 23rd, 2015 at 12:35 pm
Having a real offense will go a long way towards a better defense.
April 23rd, 2015 at 12:39 pm
Luther Says:
April 23rd, 2015 at 11:30 am
@ATrain Everyone wants to trade up for Mariota because he will be available. You can bet that even more teams would trade up for Winston if they thought that the Bucs would be stupid enough to pass on him.
_____________________________________
If the Bucs passed on Winston, and took Mariota, Winston would slide like a rock. Panic would settle in. Managers, Owners and Head Coaches would think “Hey, if the Bucs passed on the surefire media self appointed savior then there must be more red flags that we’re not aware of” They will question the coherent risk of moving up, and spending future picks for a QB after the Bucs with the #1 pick passed on. Personally I believe the Bucs have to take Winston after all this media build-up or Winston will sink into oblivion like Johnny Manziel did last draft.
April 23rd, 2015 at 12:53 pm
Can we get Ronde back?
April 23rd, 2015 at 1:13 pm
@Lou.
You raise some valid points, but there isn’t a lot of disagreeing there.
I do believe Dirk will make a huge difference, the problem there is the offensive line, assuming we take a QB with the first pick.
Actually, the real problem is so many needs and not enough picks.
The team will be plagued with injuries this year, since 12 of 14 players signed have injury issues.
It’s one thing to take a chance on 1-2 players like that, but they did it with nearly all of them. That’s just asking for disaster.
April 23rd, 2015 at 1:16 pm
@SAMCRO
I think what you say is possible. At this point nothing is a sure thing, either way.
Frankly, I can’t help but think of the Manning/Leaf comparison, when Leaf was considered overall to be the better QB with the stronger arm.
The Colts worked out Manning and discovered his arm was not as bad as advertised.
The similarities are spooky…and I feel like if the Bucs take Winston, they could end up being an even bigger joke than they are already.
April 23rd, 2015 at 1:28 pm
What NFL player does not have injuries? By week four there isn’t a single NFL player that is not nursing some sort of injury.
April 23rd, 2015 at 1:29 pm
Hey Luther how about commenting on the rest of my post..
Now its 2 yes for Winston..Wait he is Pro Ready..its Mariota that needed time.
Mariota is more of an athlete, better numbers in college last two year compared except INTs which Winston had more. No off field junk.
So let’s see what will be the response. Oh that’s right he has swagger…Haha..
I careless if a QB bores anyone at the podium …WOW me on the field.
April 23rd, 2015 at 1:31 pm
“How exactly did Carolina beat the Bucs for a second time with the same Derek Anderson-Greg Olsen combination in December?”
Maybe because they are a better football team even with a backup QB?
April 23rd, 2015 at 1:33 pm
@ Bonzai
How the hell were we a top 10 defense last year for the last 10 weeks of the season? Can you please address this if we are such a joke of a team talent wise and only sign injury prone players?
You can spend your time nick picking depth signings while I will look at how the team produced with the players htey had and what they have added / deleted from it. A top 10 defense last 10 weeks of the year didn’t lose a single major contributor. We added 4-5 impact depth players to that same defense and cut the guys who were not part of its success. In your mind that means we are like the worst team in the NFL somehow.
You realize i could do your little anti-this player anti-that player on every freaking roster in the NFL? There is no roster full of studs at every position that never get hurt. Your expectations for the team are insanely unrealistic. NO TEAM has what you think we need.
April 23rd, 2015 at 1:40 pm
Lord Cornelius Says:
April 23rd, 2015 at 1:33 pm
@ Bonzai
How the hell were we a top 10 defense last year for the last 10 weeks of the season? Can you please address this if we are such a joke of a team talent wise and only sign injury prone players?
__________________________________________________________
Competition level. Here’s the “murderers row” of QBs in the last 10 weeks
Teddy Bridgewater
Bryan Hoyer
Matt Ryan
RGBust
Jay Cutler
Andy Dalton
Matt Stafford
Derek Anderson
Aaron Rodgers
Drew Brees (Saints had quit by this point)
The two good QBs (whose teams hadn’t quit) they played torched them. So yes, maybe it can be a top 10 unit against mediocre to poor teams. But that’s Lovie’s MO defined. Beats up on bad teams, gets beaten up by above average or better teams.
April 23rd, 2015 at 1:45 pm
Also Bonzai – all of those players you list are not being counted on for starters. What a waste of your time imo.
You can complain about our nickle CB; but I can go find a lot of teams that have terrible #1 or #2 CBs.
You can complain about DEs; and I can point out how our line produced more sacks last year than others; especially down the stretch; and we’ve added Melton as a DEPTH ROTATIONAL PLAYER to add pass rushing ability; and a 6 sack rotational player as well.
You can complain about the S position; but we possibly found a great starter in the league off the streets (just as we found a great DE off the streets); but lets ignore that and pretend the world is ending because we let go 2 bums who vastly underachieved for their position.
The team could use upgrade at FS for sure, DE, and LB. But compared to other rosters; DT / CB is a position of strength, LB is about average, DE is about average.
Biggest weakness is O-line. NOthing else is really close. We have 2 of the better WRs in the league and very promising TE with 2 depth TEs.
OMG BUT LUKE STOCKER IS INJURY PRONE!! HOW CAN ANYONE WIN ANY GAMES WITH THEIR 3rd STRING BLOCKING TE BEING INJURY PRONE OMG!!!
April 23rd, 2015 at 1:51 pm
“Competition level. Here’s the “murderers row” of QBs in the last 10 weeks
Teddy Bridgewater
Bryan Hoyer
Matt Ryan
RGBust
Jay Cutler
Andy Dalton
Matt Stafford
Derek Anderson
Aaron Rodgers
Drew Brees (Saints had quit by this point)
The two good QBs (whose teams hadn’t quit) they played torched them. So yes, maybe it can be a top 10 unit against mediocre to poor teams. But that’s Lovie’s MO defined. Beats up on bad teams, gets beaten up by above average or better teams”
lmao. The only guy “torched” us was Stafford with 34 points. I like how you throw in “whose teams hadn’t quit” like you can actually measure that. If anything most would argue the Bucs were the ones tanking.
Held Rodgers to 20.
Held Brees to 23.
Ryan had 27.
Dalton/Cutler are not terrible QBs. Not elite but not bottom of barrel.
Bridgewater was last years best rookie QB.
Do you think most teams schedules include the Packers/Broncos/Patriots/Seahawks every other week or something lol? Nothing about that 10 game stretch is a joke in terms of competition faced. Prety much in line with the norm.
We did this despite having the worst offense in the NFL. Kind of insane to hold the packers to 20 points while only putting up 3 and not sustaining any drives.
April 23rd, 2015 at 1:56 pm
In general it just is sad to me how much you guys have to reach to try and paint this apoclyptic picture of the team as fans.
Then again we have sucked for so long that I could see this as a method to dealing with it. Go in with horrible expectations so that whatever happens is likely positive.
I’m optimistic but also realize the NFL changes insanely year to year and I can’t just expect anything because of how we finished 10 weeks last year; but I would think I can project more off of that then looking at the injury history of 3rd and 4th string players that were simply ADDITIONS to the already existing nucleus of players from last year.
They could ALL get hurt and we’d have the same unit of players that produced a top 10 defense for the last 10 weeks last year.
April 23rd, 2015 at 2:07 pm
The Packers had a 300 yard passer, 100 yard rusher, and two 100 yard receivers in that game. With Aaron Rodgers playing at 50%. Wanna guess how many times they did that last year?
Once…
So a 100% Rodgers easily drops 45 on the Bucs so you can cling to that performance if you’d like. But the Bucs got abused in that game except on the scoreline. And again, a 100% Rodgers is a different, likely much more embarrassing story.
Oh yeah, this happened in the Redskins game, so any competent QB would have humilated that defense, and that was the second half of the year…
http://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/2mx31d/film_analysis_robert_griffin_iii_vs_bucs_warning
So great defense, or poorer competition? We have to beat above average teams/QBs to win a Super Bowl. When they did last year, they generally looked poor.
As to expecations, you are keenly aware the Bucs have average 4 wins a season the last 4 years right? That you and others think this team just needs to draft Jameis and the dynasty is on is, well, effing insane homerism. Dare to dream, but it is homerism and it’s not really objectively analyzing this team. It’s analyzing it looking to maximize the positives and virtually ignore the negatives.
April 23rd, 2015 at 2:09 pm
@Cornelius I love your posts in this thread. I think our defense has an extremely high talent level and if anything has underachieved in the last 10 games of the season. With any improvement at MLB or S and if these ends work out or we draft an end that works out the defense could be top FIVE, not 10. Or top 3.
April 23rd, 2015 at 2:13 pm
To be the opposite of apocalyptic what if we have a perfect draft and nail a QB, 2 O linemen, a safety, MLB, slot receiver/kr, and a DE? What is our record then?
April 23rd, 2015 at 2:19 pm
Bonzi- what is the going rate for a 32 year old RBs?
4th this year, 2nd and 4th next year.
Peterson may have a couple good years.
Or he may tear an Achilles in game two.
Isn’t like Rivers- who will hold up 6 more years- a running back loses half a step- he’s done.
Sadly, see Doug Martin
April 23rd, 2015 at 2:30 pm
@ bucrightoff –
I don’t think Winston = immediate contendor by any means. Where did I say that?
I simply expect the defense to be the best one we’ve fielded in recent memory. Even with REvis we were much worse than how we played down the stretch last year.
I disagree with people like Bonzai who want to argue as if we have the worst roster in the league. I am trying to point out that NO ROSTER in the NFL is complete. EVERY TEAM has weaknesses that need to be masked. His expectations are simply unrealistic. Insanely unrealistic.
Also – the defense didnt really face that much tougher a schedule early in the year so I don’t see how SOS is attributable to the huge turnaround after the bye. It’s not like Joe Flacco is known for lighting people up all the time. They were HORRIBLE in the beggining of the year.
I didn’t have much optimism in any of the Schiano/Morris years; outside of Josh Freeman giving us glimspes of hope. I was happy and still happy with the Lovie signing. Best NFL coach we’ve had in many years and likely our best chance at actually building something of continuity.
Go look at how terrible we were getting blown out in losses during Schiano’s tenure versus how close we were playing last year; and its a dramatic difference.
And yes I simply do just believe in Winston that much that he can make us insantly competitive within our division. If he proves me wrong I’ll eat it and be able to admit I was simply wrong for beliving in him; but until that day comes I’ll be full of hope. Why wouldn’t I be? Consensus opinion is that he’s one of the top QB prospects of the last 5-10 years. I was born in 1987 so this will be the first #1 pick I’ve seen the Bucs have; and they happen to have it in a year where there is a viable franchise QB thank god.
April 23rd, 2015 at 2:32 pm
My draft concern is passing game speed. Had we an average o-line, we could wait for the draft to come to us. But we are where we are, so at least 2 of our first four picks — and almost certainly R-2 — will go o-line. Makes us predictable and shoots the hell out of BPA.
Evans and Jackson are fine players, but they are close to being the same player. Speed not only affects coverage but dictates blitz and rush defense and limits options. If slot or TE or a back — or even a wideout– could flash 4.3 speed (well, leave the TE out of that), we would be seeing different defenses and more open passing attacks. Herron was worth the try, but it seems like he is little better in the League than his WY qb Brett Smith.
The shame is that we painted ourselves into this corner– we can’t go for WR speed or for a system Mike because our first three or four choices have to be need-fillers and not best players