B+ On George Johnson Trade
April 18th, 2015
Joe senses the Bucs may go offensive line in the second round of the draft, or at least with their second pick (moving back into the first-round is always possible).
Last week, Bucs general manager Jason Licht implied defensive tackles will key the pass rush, led by superstud Gerald McCoy. Then, the Bucs consummated a trade for Lions defensive end George Johnson, who had six sacks last season in a limited role. That move should temper any pressure to take a defensive end on Day 2 of the draft.
Folks in NFL circles have raved about the trade from a Bucs standpoint, including no less an authority than Bill Polian. Joe finds that heartwarming.
One NFL voice who loves the trade is the WalterFootball.com crowd, which gave the Bucs a B+ on the deal.
” … this is a good trade for the Buccaneers. They’re getting a promising pass-rusher who accumulated six sacks last year despite playing half the snaps. It was Johnson’s first real action as a defensive player in the NFL, and he thrived when given the chance. It’s unclear if he can be a starter, but he’ll at least be a solid rotational player for Tampa.
If Johnson — who was once with the Bucs but good luck remembering him — isn’t just a flash-in-the-pan, it sure seems like the Bucs got a steal. At worst, the Bucs should have a valuable piece of depth, which is too often overlooked.
April 18th, 2015 at 9:35 am
a pleasant addition ….costing a 5th round shot in the dark
April 18th, 2015 at 9:37 am
Hey Joes…why are my comments “awaiting moderation”??? there has been nothing I’ve posted other than disagreement that should warrant reviewing my posts before appearing on the blog
April 18th, 2015 at 9:38 am
I remember him fine. I felt he had potential as a great backup then. I still do.
I’m raw that we had to trade for him just because the Lions have cap issues and couldn’t match our offer. It’s a load of crap.
We gave a 5th and they gave a 7th. NOT WORTH IT when we have so many needs in the draft.
I really HATE the job Jason Licht is doing. That 7th will be useless. That 5th at least had a chance of getting a decent player, possible a developmental starter.
April 18th, 2015 at 9:45 am
The fact that this RFA acquisition turned into a trade at all gives it an F- for me.
April 18th, 2015 at 9:46 am
I think it’s abundantly clear that the Bucs will be going OL with that 2nd and maybe even the 3rd pick.
Every free agent pickup has been on defense, and they all have a common trait, familiarity with Lovie’s defense. I think the Bucs are probably feeling pretty secure defensively and may look for some depth in the later rounds but I don’t think they’re thinking big name DE in the draft.
@BucBonzai If I may respectfully disagree about this move. Johnson has a track record, he is a known quantity. Given that first and second round picks have a 50-50 shot of making it statistically you can imagine what the odds are for a 4th or 5th rounder. At that point they are not much more valuable than a free agent and first choice from the waiver wire probably offers as much hope as a 5th or later round draft choice. Again at least with the waiver wire you’re talking about players with a track record. Again not always predictive but IMO a little better than a drafting a college kid.
April 18th, 2015 at 9:54 am
Don’t count on Oline with 2nd or 3rd pick regardless what we do in FA…..we could choose a DE…..S….CB….RB….WR….LB……who knows…
I know we need Oline…but that doesn’t mean we will pick one.
April 18th, 2015 at 9:57 am
Good trade.
With all the exhaustive QB talk the real key to the upcoming season is whether Lovie and company can turn the present crew, plus the additions to be made on draft and FA, into a top ten defense.
Ought to be doable with the way they came on last season. after all there are three bonafide pro bowlers on it already.
April 18th, 2015 at 9:57 am
After an all offense draft last year I can’t believe Lovie would use the first 3 picks this year on offense too. He will take a DE in round 2 or 3.
April 18th, 2015 at 9:57 am
I bet WalterFootball also loved the Zuttah trade too?
April 18th, 2015 at 9:58 am
@StPeteBucsFan
George Johnson isn’t a known quantity though. He had those sacks while on a line filled with studs. His numbers are inflated because of that. The problem I have is mainly with the way things went down.
Jason Lost made an offer within the rules. It was front heavy to save cap room later. The Lions are tight on cap room this year, so they could not match it.
That’s why the rules are set up that way. But they call Goodell, he makes a phone call to Jason Lost and suddenly we are trading for a player we should have acquired as a free agent. If Jason Lost had a set of balls, he would have told Goodell to shove it.
So far as the value of a 5th rounder, when it comes to offensive line, most of the starting OL men in the league were picked between rounds 3 and 5. It’s the sweet spot for OL players.
George Johnson, and I know this because I’ve paid attention to him while he was here and after, is a backup DE on a good team. He may start here, but he will not produce 4 sacks a year unless we get another very strong DE.
So it is an F grade trade to me, because we shouldn’t have had to trade for him.
Jason Lost had made maybe 2 good moves since joining this organization. Out of a couple dozen. He is horrible.
April 18th, 2015 at 10:04 am
The issue is not whether Johnson is a worthwhile player — we all agree he is. The issue is what we paid in salary PLUS what we gave up in draft choices. Suppose we had structured the offer as 4 mil./ 2.5 mil./ 2.5 million. The total would be the same as the face of the contract — 9 million (without de-escalators). Why did we not go that route and freeze Detroit out of the running?
Or to put it another way, the Bucs have finite resources — a certain amount of cap money and a certain number of draft picks. The point of tendering a restricted free agent is to get the player, pay the money, and conserve the draft choices. We will pay cap money AND lose a pick. What’s up with that picture?
Or to put it yet another way, how much money would the Bucs pay to have the 5th round pick? Not the player salary, just to have the pick itself?
A waste. A needless waste. Irritating.
April 18th, 2015 at 10:07 am
2nd pick will be MLB.
April 18th, 2015 at 10:09 am
But Jason lost is a football junkie so that should comfort you bonzai
April 18th, 2015 at 10:12 am
MLB could be the pick too. I don’t think Carter is a MLB
April 18th, 2015 at 10:22 am
I think since they wound up trading for him the Lions were going to match the offer. They could have well overpaid the guy initially and prevented that from happening but they have to be wise with the cap.
Bottom line is they wanted some depth at DE and Johnson gives that. They had to trade a 1/50 chance for a 1/75 to make sure they got their guy. If Johnson just matches his output from a year ago this is a slam dunk.
BTW we have a pretty solid interior line too.
April 18th, 2015 at 10:24 am
@BucBonzai
Are we CERTAIN that Detroit couldn’t match the offer? They may have had to cut some dead wood to clear some space but we weren’t talking a gazillion bucks here. Wasn’t it just 3 milliion?
April 18th, 2015 at 10:28 am
@Lou there are rules about front loading the contracts for RFAs for just that reason.
April 18th, 2015 at 10:34 am
Detroit may very well have matched it and objected so they could minimize what it would take to do so.
But the crowd who wants to criticize as a default position would not consider that.
April 18th, 2015 at 10:35 am
JFat they are $30M under the cap so actually they do not have to not have to be wise with the cap. Even if they had overpaid for this back up it wasn’t going to break the bank anyway.
So in review, as of now we have no starting middle linebacker, Defensive End, Left tackle and right guard. We are going into the draft with 4 key positions that have no legitimate starter, in addition to the need for a QB, slot reciever, punter and depth at very position except running back where we have no elite talent. I hinestly having had this much trepidation during the off season since Culver house’is days. It is looking pretty bleak for 2015.
April 18th, 2015 at 10:39 am
If the Bucs didn’t have the De-escalators in the contract Detroit might not have matched. We will never know.
April 18th, 2015 at 10:45 am
I don’t care. I just want to know if this guy can apply pressure to the QB.
Still irked and feel like the Bucs office goofed somewhere and we’re forced to trade picks.
But again, who cares. If this guy performs, the details of the deal will be forgotten. If he is a ghost like the last “Stud” DE that was aquired last season who then became Casper the ghost’s hidden drinking buddy. Then it will be official, the front office lacks the ability to evaluate players.
April 18th, 2015 at 10:51 am
@TheShaz this guy has been cut by bad teams and barely cracked the lineup on any team until last year. If you think this guy is going to come in and be Simeon Rice 2.0 you are sadly mistaken. He is a back up at best.
April 18th, 2015 at 10:51 am
WTF Joe
JoeJoes Fungi Nails Says: Your comment is awaiting moderation.
April 18th, 2015 at 9:35 am
a pleasant addition ….costing a 5th round shot in the dark
April 18th, 2015 at 10:52 am
With Jaquiez Smith coming on, this dude, and possibly Gholston having a good season.
I say O-line 2,3, and 4. Then again from what everyone is saying the draft is stocked with DE’s. So if there’s a good one in there, mix it up and grab one of them with 2, 3 or 4. But dayum that line has to be addressed in a big way and every Buc fan knows it.
April 18th, 2015 at 10:55 am
My trust in FA signings is all but obliterated after last season. I’m going to need to actually see production before I get excited about any of them.
April 18th, 2015 at 10:59 am
Well ’87 that’s a fair assessment. In fact I would expand that to all of our new players including your hero Fameis or Marcus.
We can all debate and speculate all we wish but until they put it on video out on the field next year it doesn’t really mean anything.
Somebody upset with one of my takes said that OBP doesn’t really give a crap about what I think. LOL Duh. Does that mean this guy was stating the obvious or is he delusional enough to think they care about what any of us think.
They may look at us collectively but with all due respect to all of our posters and the Joe’s…OBP is not guided by our opinions.
April 18th, 2015 at 11:16 am
@SPBF that was me. I wasn’t unhappy with your post as you finally admitted that you don’t want Winston (we already knew that). All of your posts have an arrogance to them and you act like your opinion matters to anyone other than yourself.
April 18th, 2015 at 11:21 am
As much as I agree with ’87 I don’t feel the need to proclaim “my choice” in all of my posts. I occasionally state who I think they will take and why, but my opinion about who think they should take is irrelevant as to whether or not that actually happens. I will defer to the guys that get paid to do this and trust that their research has in covered every stone. If they take him he came back clean. If they don’t I’m sure they will have a very good reason for this because on the field there isn’t a ton of debate regarding who is better, at least right now.
April 18th, 2015 at 11:24 am
Just a terrible GM
Bring the Rockstar Back
We paid 3 million for a back up
Imagine how much Detroit fans are laughing at us
April 18th, 2015 at 11:26 am
JoeJoes Fungi Nails…don’t feel bad about “comment awaiting moderation” Joes doing it to me to all morning on different threads for no apparent reason.
It could be, because I’m posting too much lately or that fans post 87 this and 87 that and not enough Joe this and Joe that. lol
April 18th, 2015 at 12:00 pm
@bucsfan4lyfe
as you finally admitted that you don’t want Winston (we already knew that).
Know you couldn’t already know that because as I’ve posted I’ve changed my mind repeatedly. Because you Winstonites are so incredibly sensitive and sure beyond any reasonable belief that he is the next HOF QB to enter the league, you apparently have trouble taking me at my word.
I began as someone who wanted to trade down for more picks because we have so many holes. Then the Joes and posters here convinced me that we MUST take a QB. So I jumped on Mariota for the on field reasons I’ve posted. Then the constant barrage of propaganda here on Jameis Buc Fan made me doubt my original choice and so I joined the Fameis camp for a couple of weeks. Seeing unbiased reporting from two major national sports publications and using the opinions of folks like Chucky, Jaws, Jim Mora, Russell Wilson, Carson Palmer and others who believe Mariota has more talent than Fameis and that his game is more suited for the FUTURE of the NFL I’m back on board with MM.
Have I changed my mind several times? Absolutely. Again I simply do not see any possible Bucs decision as the slam dunk the Winstonites wish to portray.
As for “arrogance”. That amuses me because Capt Tim just gave me the award for boredom because I’m too polite. That’s OK because it means I’ve acheived what I wish, which is to make people think and the fact that two of you come up with opposite if negative opinions about me is a good thing.
Again I go to Emerson. Never let the thoughts of others influence how YOU feel. Winstonites seem to be hypersensitive. Whatever. Trust me I believe in the old saying about opinions being like….and everybody has one.
I frequently attempt to point out that I’m no expert and that I am simply expressing an opinion.
April 18th, 2015 at 12:11 pm
87 woke up..good morning
April 18th, 2015 at 12:17 pm
@Bucfan4life – You still have to be smart with the cap. We need to re-sign Lavonte, rookie contracts, 2nd round of FA. You can’t go set a precedent and pay 4-5 mm for a rotational guy either. Overspending will lead to problems with the cap.
April 18th, 2015 at 12:24 pm
We could accomplish SO MUCH by trading down….Cardale Jones in 2016….he has a beautiful explosive over the top release….better than either MM or JW….every year there are these gotta gotta have QB’s and most never deliver as hyped….
April 18th, 2015 at 12:24 pm
ATrain …Jameis says hello!
April 18th, 2015 at 12:28 pm
I knew it 87 is Winston…
Hey man!!! Up late last night spending some of that Nike Money…
Winston is so bad a rattlesnake bit him and the snake died..
April 18th, 2015 at 12:36 pm
Winston is so bad L&L drafted him and both were out of the league by 2017
April 18th, 2015 at 12:46 pm
the bucs shouldn’t have swapped late round picks for this guy.
Detroit got one over on them.
Johnson played on one of the best d-lines in football.
Detroit’s total defense is one of the nfc’s best.
da’quan bowers or the cincy’s ghost of Johnson’s past would have looked like a superstar on detroit’s d-line.
April 18th, 2015 at 1:19 pm
We need to pick a QB. I know people say just draft Cardale Jones or Hackenberg or whoever next year but there is no guarantee that the top prospects will be available when we are on the clock. Unless of course we have the #1 pick next year. But how often does that happen! Lol
April 18th, 2015 at 1:28 pm
We have Mike Glennon….and he sure as hell will be a better option for the 2015 season than either JW or MM…..
April 18th, 2015 at 1:46 pm
There was no reason to give up a pick for this guy. I like Johnson, but the trade is grade F. You don’t low ball RFAs that you need desperately.
April 18th, 2015 at 1:49 pm
Jameis Winston WILL be your day 1 starter…
Glennon’s around too, but not for long.
April 18th, 2015 at 2:32 pm
jamis is not the pick sorry to say morons but the bucs do not need the drama this guy will bring and i dont want to listen to the coaches defending this guy all year and the fans deserve better out of the number 1 pick
April 18th, 2015 at 2:45 pm
Glennon will be better than WINSton in 2015 in which realm do you speak of. Certainly you’re not referring to the physical one.
April 18th, 2015 at 3:29 pm
Glennon is the scape goat. When this OLine under preforms the decision to allow Winston to learn will be pulled.
Winston will sit and Glennon will get a beat down and then traded because of performance. Bucs Life
April 18th, 2015 at 10:16 pm
Bill Polian* …. same guy that said last week on BSPN that Mariota is a better prospect than Winston
April 19th, 2015 at 9:53 am
Yes Mike possibly Mariota will be after he sits of the bench for a couple of seasons.
April 20th, 2015 at 11:32 am
Problem solved =
1 – Brandon Scherff (OT Iowa)
2 – AJ Cann (OG South Carolina)
3 – Garrett Greyson (QB – Colorado State)
4 – Henry Anderson (DE – Stanford)