Why Bucs May Have Passed
March 18th, 2015
Mike Mayock may have solved the puzzle of why the Bucs pulled out of the Greg Hardy sweepstakes.
It is clear now, barring something totally unforeseen, free agent defensive end Greg Hardy will not wear a Buccaneers uniform unless he is at a costume party.
Many outlets are reporting the Bucs have bowed out of the Hardy running.So for the 11th straight season (unless the Bucs draft a defensive end), Tampa Bay will keep looking for a guy who can get double-digit sacks from the edge.
Leave it to Mike Mayock of NFL Network, sage draft expert, to perhaps find the reason.
Mayock on this year’s draft: “I think it’s the best edge rushing class I’ve seen since 2011.”
— NFL Media PR (@InsideNFLMedia) March 18, 2015
If Joe was running the draft of the Bucs, of course Jameis Winston would be selected at No. 1, followed by trading up into the first round to nab one of these prized defensive ends. The rest of the draft would be offensive linemen. Yeah, seriously.
You figure if the Bucs draft four offensive linemen, one guy should be able to shake out from that group to be able to start and contribute.
Or maybe one of those offensive linemen could be converted to a defensive end?
March 18th, 2015 at 3:02 pm
That’s great. Let’s hope we can do something we haven’t been very good at historically – draft well.
March 18th, 2015 at 3:04 pm
That class of 2011 was really great! I advise anyone to go to football reference as you can search by position for a draft class, productive guys well into the 4th round. It is just amazing that Dominick was able to find the 2 busts so high in the draft that year!!!
March 18th, 2015 at 3:04 pm
Looking more and more like were taking Leonard Williams. Lovie said it best ” were moving forward with Mike Glennon”. I don’t think he was bluffing.
March 18th, 2015 at 3:05 pm
But we only have a limited amount of draft pick, why not fill the need now and use the draft picks for other positions? just would have been one less thing to worry about and we already know what type of player he is, we wouldn’t have to worry about him not panning out like an unknown draft pick might.
March 18th, 2015 at 3:05 pm
@Joe
Bingo! Simply trade our high 2nd rounder with another pick to move back up into the first round for that edge rusher if that’s where the talent lies.
It’s just BPA at that point since your earlier post revealed it’s not a great draft for LT’s. OK since we need an LT and a DE simply take the BPA at one of those two positions.
BTW. I take Mayock’s point but I still believe we NEVER had a shot at Hardy and we were gamed by the greasy Rosenhaus to jerk Jerry Jones to a higher number. The Bucs at least put the kabosh on that by announcing they are not interested.
There you go JJ. No competition drive a hard bargain with Slick Drew…cut him off at the ankles…give no quarter to that devious weasel.
And so all how does it feel to get played by Rosenhaus. We all really got our hopes up for nothing. It was always a negotiating ploy for Rosenhaus not serious.
March 18th, 2015 at 3:05 pm
Im not even sure Winston could even come in a beat Glennon to be honest, rookies struggle, hell even the great Peyton Manning had a miserable rookie year.
March 18th, 2015 at 3:07 pm
Outside the first round of that 2011 draft, the only good or great pass rusher is Justin Houston. Otherwise it’s a bunch of mediocrity.
Hardy is certainly a bad dude but he can play, and has proven it at the NFL level. A draft pick is a draft pick, unproven and a risk on the field.
March 18th, 2015 at 3:08 pm
Glennon will have a leg up on the playbook and he already has a familiarity with the receivers, not sure taking a quarterback is even an option at this point, ive also noticed weve had a lot of mid late round quarterbacks in for tryouts, which tells me they might just wait till the later rounds to find a back up to Glennon. And who knows, Keotter may have fell in love with Glennon and gave Lovie his blessing.
March 18th, 2015 at 3:10 pm
Been saying that for weeks. This draft is top-heavy on DEs, deep with OL in the middle rounds.
March 18th, 2015 at 3:11 pm
Good, Lord! If it’s not an option now, it never will be an option. smh
March 18th, 2015 at 3:12 pm
I trust Lovie’s ability more to develop a rush end from the mid to late rounds more than I trust his ability to groom a LT from a turnstile to a starter. Please trade up for the LT prospect if we do at all.
March 18th, 2015 at 3:12 pm
@SuperSam,
Why go back 17 years to a rookie Peyton Manning? What about the rookie struggles of Andrew Luck, Russell Wilson, and even RG3? Oh wait, those guys led their teams to the playoffs in their first year (Luck coming from a 1 win team). Big Ben had a good rookie season. Andy Dalton made a Pro Bowl in year one. Matt Ryan led the Falcons to the playoffs in year one. Cam Newton set tons of records in his first year. Joe Flacco wasn’t too shabby in his first year.
I get what you are saying, but I just gave you 8 examples off the top of my head of good to very good rookie seasons. I think Winston’s chances are a lot better than you realize.
March 18th, 2015 at 3:13 pm
Why do I get the feeling in March 2015 that we will be watching the Bucs in Aug / Sept / Oct – saying how we need pass rushers and an o-line…season done before Oct having to wait for another off-season to improve those areas?
I’m not trying to be negative – I just feel like I’ve been in this movie before…
March 18th, 2015 at 3:13 pm
Am I the only one here who senses a real potential for irony. Last year the Bucs were the toast of the entire league for the FA pickups. Fans in particular were ecstatic. Were the fans not just as dumb as L&L?
Now I read post after post about how we’re doomed. Wouldn’t it be funny if we won ten games this year. What would the doom and gloom people have to post about then?
Well heaven forbid MG8 led us to 10 wins and a playoff spot because a significant number would still be peoed that we passed on our “franchise” QB.
IF we draft Fameis and MG8 gets the start at the beginning of the year by earning it…is possible if not probable…but IF that happened and MG8 started 8-2 how long through the first bad quarter of play would it be till people started yelling for Fameis?
March 18th, 2015 at 3:14 pm
Don’t expect a very good season on defense.
And if we don’t get a good center before the draft, don’t expect a good season at all.
March 18th, 2015 at 3:15 pm
Really Joe, you are beginning to sound like some of the idiots thatmpostmout here.
I’m okay with your idea of Winston and moving up to ge an edge rusher if there is one available that looks good.
But draft OL with every other pick. That is how teams stay down in the cellar and you know it.
I can see the Patriots now in the sixth round some 14 years ago. Hey guys, that Brady guy looks good in the sixth Round and he has a lot of upside but we really need to fill that guard spot and this Cousins guy looks like he might make the team. He’s not rated nearly as high but we really need guards.”
You know, as well as I do, you always try to pick the highest rated player on the board, especially if it means you can upgrade a position.
Your idea for the later rounds stinks and sounds like something a novice would utter.
March 18th, 2015 at 3:15 pm
I’m kind of glad we missed out on Hardy. With our track record of free agents, we probably just dodged another guy who was just looking to cash in and not give a damn. I think if we draft a pass rusher in the second round, we will be ok if we move Dotson over to LT for a season because he will at least be serviceable, then find either a RG or RT from rounds 3 through 7 and pick up one after the draft if need be.
March 18th, 2015 at 3:16 pm
THANK GOD WE DIDN’T GET HARDY!
March 18th, 2015 at 3:17 pm
We have a good center BuccaneerBonzai, you just fail to recognize how truly awful are OC was last year and how integral he was in the poor play of the entire offensive unit.
March 18th, 2015 at 3:19 pm
All Im saying is maybe Keotter can turn Glennon into a poor mans Matt Ryan, and if Lovie doesn’t feel right with Winston, trust me he’d rather draft Leonard Williams then roll the dice with Winston. Remember Leonard Williams is still the best player in this draft.
March 18th, 2015 at 3:20 pm
draft four lineman in hopes one could be a starter hahahaha
March 18th, 2015 at 3:21 pm
Judging by the number of close games we played last year StPeteBucFan and the fact we had an atrocious offensive coordinator and a defense learning a new scheme, 10 games isn’t that much of a stretch.
People can call me crazy, but most games are determined by one or two mistakes made by the losing team.
Now that one of he major mistake players is gone, there is better chance that won’t happen if we can get the QB o believe in ball security.
March 18th, 2015 at 3:24 pm
“It is just amazing that Dominick was able to find the 2 busts so high in the draft that year!!!”
I just went to that site to take a gander. This statement is so incredibly true, my only reaction was to laugh until I cried…. then I just kept crying!
March 18th, 2015 at 3:24 pm
You can check Dante Fowler off the list since he doesn’t like the Bucs.
March 18th, 2015 at 3:25 pm
@Joe… given the number of daily articles and statements in other articles pertaining to JW it’s becoming apparent you have a Man Crush for this young man.
I’m not saying this is wrong, but I do wish you’d show a little more love for MM.
March 18th, 2015 at 3:25 pm
They said Licht didn’t feel good about. I didn’t feel good about Lovie coming back for another season but sure enough he is still here. We have nobody who can rush the passer and we have nobody that can block the pass rusher. Great job Jason.
March 18th, 2015 at 3:27 pm
@StPeteBucsFan
There’s such a thing as recognizing reality.
The reality is this…we need the following:
On Offense
Quarterback – Winston or Mariota?
Center – EDS cost games last year. Might work as Guard. Might not.
Tackle
Guard – if EDS stays at center
Half Back – (Possibly)
On Defense
Middlelinebacker – Foster is history, Carter is not his replacement
Left Defensive End
Right Defensive End
Safety – To replace Baron
Safety – To replace Goldson (if cut)
That’s 9-10 spots to be filled. All we’ve seen in free agency is depth signings…not starters. So none of these have really been addressed.
The reality is it is impossibly to fill all of those with quality starters in one year. IMPOSSIBLE.
Now, we can save a little time in a couple ways. Sign a veteran center that is better than EDS and move him to Guard for a year. That will address two spots with one signing. Keep Goldson (shutters) for another year so it’s one less spot to fill.
That would deal with 3 of ten spots.
Figure 2-3 starters from the draft. That’s a total of 5-6 spots or ten dealt with. At best…AT BEST…the other 4-5 spots would be developmental projects that would not payoff this year…and that’s IF we hit on all the draft picks…which is impossible.
Reality.
March 18th, 2015 at 3:28 pm
“All Im saying is maybe Keotter can turn Glennon into a poor mans Matt Ryan, and if Lovie doesn’t feel right with Winston, trust me he’d rather draft Leonard Williams then roll the dice with Winston. Remember Leonard Williams is still the best player in this draft.”
——–
You don’t “turn” anybody into anybody. If you really in your heart believe that Mike Glennon can all of a sudden be a Pro Bowl, franchise-leading QB, then you seriously need to put down the pipe. It just doesn’t happen like that. Since you earlier used Peyton, he showed tons of flashes of his greatness during his rookie year. There wasn’t one person screaming that he was a bust. Not a one. What has Glennon showed? He had a good half against Pittsburgh, but so many forget how dreadful he was in the first half. The only reason people forget how terrible he was last year is because McClown was worse. Glennon is nothing more than a career backup, period. If he weren’t, teams would be begging for him. They would be giving up first round picks for him. Instead, we’re looking at a 4th or a 5th at best. That tells you all you need to know about what the league thinks about him. So no, I’m not rolling with Glennon if I’m running the Bucs, and if you think they should, then I don’t know what to tell you except “get well soon”. Besides, Koetter wasn’t even Ryan’s coordinator but for 2 years. Ryan was successful before Koetter got there.
March 18th, 2015 at 3:28 pm
(shudders)
March 18th, 2015 at 3:29 pm
Lovie doesn’t like rookies. Not that he could really pick talent, but his preference is to a vet. This team has no direction under this staff.
March 18th, 2015 at 3:36 pm
@ddneast
Agree completely. Yes our line play was poor but we had no OC and our HC is not an offensive coach either.
EDS and Mankins looked good on their old teams because of the players around them. They sucked on the Bucs for the same reason…the players around them.
How would any of you feel lining up next to Cousins or worst of all Gilkey?
OC is a team within the team. They make each other look better or worse.
Last year two positions embarrassed three guys who are probably competent NFL players.
March 18th, 2015 at 3:37 pm
Excellent, excellent decision by Jason Licht to pass on Hardy. People are criticizing Licht for not pouncing on him but if you peel off a couple of layers, it actually makes a lot of sense.
Firstly, a new management needs to build a culture within the program in order to implement a sustainable long term model. You don’t want Greg Hardy is a cancer, a thug, a convicted woman beater and a headcase to be one of the pillars of that foundation. People might say – so what ? We just want to win. Licht is trying to build through the draft and giving those young players the perfect role models to learn from.
This is why he didn’t cut or trade Jackson. Because he realizes how important he will be for the continued growth of Evans and the future #1 pick quarterback. The decision to stick with Mankins was great too. He is one of the toughest, meanest, blue collar type offensive linemen around. You need a guy like that – someone who can bring a winning culture to the locker room. Guys make fun of his barbecue comment but it actually makes a lot of sense. Social bonding and camaraderie plays a big part in the success of an offensive line. This is why the Ravens (who played with a UDFA left tackle last season) and Patriots (2 starting offensive linemen were UDFAs) are successful despite having seemingly inferior personnel.
Plus, not signing Hardy and giving off the impression of having a strict personnel behavior code will make Winston look good (since he passed the bar).
March 18th, 2015 at 3:38 pm
Not sure I like this concept. There are a bunch of DEs that will go in the top 10-15 but I’m not sure how good the next batch is.
Just based on big boards the value seems to be OT in 2nd and OG in 3rd for our needs; but big boards don’t matter as much as individual players.
If we move back into the 1st for a DE they better be good and worth that selection. I don’t want us reaching positionally for need.
March 18th, 2015 at 3:38 pm
Hawaiian
“You don’t “turn” anybody into anybody.”
Jon Gruden and Rich Gannon would beg to disagree.
March 18th, 2015 at 3:40 pm
No defensive end. A “maybe” at mike lb. All those holes are going to put alot of pressure on Mccoy, Lavonte and Jonathan Banks to be flawless. You would think GMacs pressence would make our defensive ends better but that hssnt been the case.
Again, could Lavonte possibly play mike, the most important of the Tampa 2 linebacker spots? I know he’s used to wearing the headset and is very fast so…
March 18th, 2015 at 3:42 pm
You also have to start wondering if Lovie and Licht didn’t “feel good” about Hardy, you think there gonna ” feel good” about Winston? My gut tells me NO.
March 18th, 2015 at 3:43 pm
It’s easy to resign if you know you are getting fired anyway…..It could have been simply a “save face” type move on a player we weren’t really that interested in anyway….perhaps we learned what the price would be and determined it was too high.
Another take could be…..we didn’t want to spend our “bad character capital” on Haardy & were saving it for presumed Winston fallout….or, perhaps it was Hardy’s character all along that caused us to be less aggressive…
Anyway…..HE GONE!!!
March 18th, 2015 at 3:43 pm
@ BB
The reality is we are not as bad off as you claim we are. Sorry if you hate EDS, but he isnt going anywhere, so you can cross off center from you list. We are completely stocked at RB, and even then we could pick up some obscure guy if needed and he can at least be serviceable ( thats how the RB position works now a days). And I really don’t even need to mention QB- you can put a check mark by that right now.
What else, you say Carter is not Foster’s replacement when you have no way of knowing that at all. He could very well be his replacement and even end up doing a better job. And as far as the RE or LE, could very well use our second round pick on one, and then have the combo of Smith (who really came on late last year) and others fill that position. SS and FS, hate to so hate but we could end up holding on to Goldson for another season so that eliminates a need, and for SS Mcdougald is more than deserving of a chance with the way he played towards the end of the season.
Sorry, your list is greatly over exaggerated.
March 18th, 2015 at 3:44 pm
Anyone think you are going hear lapdog Licht tell us fans not to be patient this year?
March 18th, 2015 at 3:44 pm
@StPete,
Fair enough, but that’s an EXTREMELY rare case. You willing to take your chances that Glennon can be Gannon? I’m one of the few that still like Lovie, but I’m not exactly buying the idea of a mediocre QB excelling under him. If Koetter makes Glennon into even an above average QB, he will be the most sought after head coach in the NFL, because he will essentially have turned water into wine.
March 18th, 2015 at 3:46 pm
If a center needs an OC to tell him not to snap worm burners, or to tell him in the shotgun, it works best when you snap into the QB’s hands and not his knees, then you don’t have an NFL center. You have a bearded turd! Or if that center is going to just turn around and not have the common decency to even watch the RB fight for life with no blockers, then you don’t have an NFL center either. You have, again, a bearded turd.
March 18th, 2015 at 3:47 pm
this franchise is embarrassing thanks to Dominick, lovie takes over when he’s fired and has a horrible offseason himself. you want to get right in this league and with the fans stop going after these damn free agents wasting money and go draft real football players. we are already a joke in the league and bucs know they didn’t need the PR nightmare signing hardy would bring especially if they drafted Winston even if the bad publicity would only last a month or so. GMC shut get in the gym and do your job, if we sign anymore free agents at this point it should be on the offensive line, you people put too much stock in sacks…..pressure and hits on the quarterback does just as much, rush a qb get him off his spot consistently ill be happy. to hell with sacks im tired of team hiking the ball and having enough time to order dinner, just get pressure on the qb, being in the top half of the league in sacks is asking too much
March 18th, 2015 at 3:49 pm
“SuperSam Says:
March 18th, 2015 at 3:42 pm
You also have to start wondering if Lovie and Licht didn’t “feel good” about Hardy, you think there gonna ” feel good” about Winston? My gut tells me NO.”
I agree with you. I think this very much tells us what I have suspected all along and Winston will be passed on due to off field concerns. At the end of the day you really have to ask yourself if incompetent Lovie Smith and his lapdog GM “feel good” about good football players or do they just feel better about good guys?
March 18th, 2015 at 3:50 pm
I think it’s apples to oranges to compare Winston to Hardy. First of all, Hardy was convicted, Winston wasn’t even charged. That one fact right there is enough to where they shouldn’t be compared. Nobody denies that Hardy hit that woman, but there is substantial doubt that Winston raped that girl (except for those who dislike Winston, who apparently were in the room with him that night). Winston isn’t facing any kind of punishment whatsoever, while Hardy is looking at probably at least a 6 game suspension. Winston plays QB, which is far and away the most important position in all of team sports. There’s a reason QB’s make more money. The Bucs aren’t being played by oily Rosenhaus to get more money with Winston, while that is the case with Hardy. The two are not comparable, and I don’t see how any person without a great deal of bias can’t see that.
March 18th, 2015 at 3:51 pm
Thank God the Joes aren’t making personnel decisions for the Bucs. Wow, we’d be even more screwed up than we already are.
March 18th, 2015 at 3:52 pm
@ HawaiianBuc
Right on Man!!! rarely do I agree with you, but I think I just agreed with every word you said in your last post.
March 18th, 2015 at 3:54 pm
At some point Lovie Smith is going to have to win ball games, and that point is probably this year. He won’t survive another 2 win season. I don’t even know if he survives a 5 or 6 win season. From strictly a football perspective, who would you put your job on the line for, Winston or Mariota? I don’t even think it’s close. Sometimes you just have to take your chances that he can keep his act together, because having a innocent, nice, and humble QB doesn’t mean jack crap if he can’t take a snap from under center. How well did the wonderful man Josh McCown do for us last year? We are a desperate team. We have to win, and we have to win now. Otherwise, we are going to blow this thing up again. We have to take a chance with character and get the best football player at the most important position. We all know who that is.
March 18th, 2015 at 4:00 pm
It’s amazing to me how many people are down on Glennon. Do you really think in your minds that Aaron Rodgers would have lit it up last year with Marcus Arroyo running the offense and the line falling apart. The defense getting torched. would Peyton Manning have set any records last year playing for the bucs??? Drew Brees hasn’t looked like himself the last couple years but the mans gotta super bowl….hell Eli Manning has TWO!!! Now thats something to picture….Eli Manning swapped with Josh McCown last year. SAME RESULTS!!!
I’m not saying he’s the guy but how can you definitively say that he’s not with the hand he has been dealt????!!!!!
Ok, now chew my head off
March 18th, 2015 at 4:01 pm
Actually, Joes, my bad…
I do agree with some of your personnel takes.
I would’ve definitely kept Michael Bennett, Donald Penn, Jeremy Zuttah, and tried to get Davin Joseph to restructure his contract…. But, I absolutely disagree with your silly J football & Winston endorsements.
March 18th, 2015 at 4:06 pm
BuccaneerBonzai Says:
March 18th, 2015 at 3:27 pm
@StPeteBucsFan
There’s such a thing as recognizing reality.
The reality is this…we need the following:
On Offense
Quarterback – Winston or Mariota?
Center – EDS cost games last year. Might work as Guard. Might not.
Tackle
Guard – if EDS stays at center
Half Back – (Possibly)
On Defense
Middlelinebacker – Foster is history, Carter is not his replacement
Left Defensive End
Right Defensive End
Safety – To replace Baron
Safety – To replace Goldson (if cut)
That’s 9-10 spots to be filled. All we’ve seen in free agency is depth signings…not starters. So none of these have really been addressed.
The reality is it is impossibly to fill all of those with quality starters in one year. IMPOSSIBLE.
Very well said. Was going to say something similar but not in as much detail and why not use yours:)? You cannot fill starting spots with scrubs from other teams and the draft only when you are a 2-14 team in need of so many qulaity starters at so many key positions just to become competitive. There was some value and overvalued signings this year in free agency and we got probably one starter at olb, big deal.
I’m just losing my patience more and more with this organization smh..
March 18th, 2015 at 4:09 pm
@Kevin,
I’m saying I sure as hell wouldn’t pin my future on Glennon. How often do you have your choice of whatever QB you want? Take away the off the field concerns, Winston is the top rated QB prospect since Andrew Luck. You think it’s wise to pass that up to take a chance on a 3rd round pick that hasn’t shown much of anything?
I’ll grant you he’s had terrible coaching and minimal weapons, but what have you seen that impresses you? I’ve seen that even when given time and 2 premier deep threat WR’s, he absolutely is TERRIBLE at throwing the deep ball. He’s shown that he has zero mobility, and very little pocket presence. Aside from one game, he has wilted under pressure. I’m sorry, but that’s just not good enough for me. And it shouldn’t be for you either.
March 18th, 2015 at 4:42 pm
Let’s start Gilkey at center and EDS to guard then Cousins to play tackle! Boom! #Super Bowl all day! Then we can start William Gholston and J. Smith oh yeah!!!! Playoffs here we come…
March 18th, 2015 at 4:43 pm
Lmao! For the life of me I just can’t understand you people thinking that Glennon is a future franchise QB. That he has this untapped potential that hasn’t been shown yet. Think about this. How many reports or articles do you remember reading about any team even inquiring about Glennon? He sucks. In one game this past season when he ran out of bounds short of the first down when he could’ve reached for it he showed the world how scared and heartless he is. Other teams saw that too. How many of his Bucs teammates have gone on record saying they want him to start as QB this upcoming season? That speaks volumes.
He is a backup, that’s it. For God sakes they wouldn’t let him start over McCown. Lol….If he was more than a backup then Winston wouldn’t even be a topic with the Bucs. MGMs, let it go! Stop settling for mediocrity.
March 18th, 2015 at 4:46 pm
This one is easy, sign AP, take Leo Williams, let the Jets go all in on Mariota, let Jameis fall so trading up for him is not so expensive. Like the Browns did with JF only this time is worth it. If the Bucs don’t draft Mariota or Winston one of them is falling at least to the middle of the first round. Just saying…
March 18th, 2015 at 4:47 pm
perhaps we should draft 7 quarterbacks. just kidding but not really
March 18th, 2015 at 5:01 pm
Based on what I’ve seen so far, hell no I would not bet my future on Glennon, I haven’t seen enough to say he’s the guy. But what I am saying is I haven’t seen enough around him including offensive coaching and playmakers and while I would definitely draft Jamis Winston, I would strongly consider letting Mike Glennon start the season with Evans, Jax, Jenkins and Koetter moving the chess pieces.
I know it’s unlikely but it’s what I would do. If Glennon does well and get’s us to the playoffs, then his trade value will significantly rise then start winston in 2016. If he doesn’t do so well this year then you’ve got Winston anyway. I I agree it would be insane to pass of Winston, but I also think it would be foolish to not see what Koetter can do with Glennon before we trade him for a fifth round pick.
March 18th, 2015 at 5:04 pm
Translation:
Lovie is a liar. Always have been, always will be…
…unless he says something I like.
Glennon couldn’t beat out Freeman or McCown (twice!). I’m sure he wouldn’t beat Winston.
I’ve been saying that since it was determined we’d have the #1 pick. It only makes sense. If you have that high of a pick in the second round, you might as well trade up a couple spots to take a guy that you didn’t expect to start falling so that you can get him on the 5 year option rookie contract vs the 4.
There, i fixed it for you.
I, for one, would be estatic. The last QB to lead us to a winning season, much less a 10-win season, was Free. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. All Glennon has to do for me to get behind him and believe in him is accomplish a feat similar to Free: 1 winning season.
Thats it.
If grandma had balls, she’d be grandpa.
But if Glennon is winning, I’d be fine with keeping him in.
The real question is, if that did happen (huge IF), how many people would still find a reason to complain and say that Winston was a wasted pick? The reality is that that is the absolute best position we could be in at that time. Allow Jameis to sit a year and learn (while we’re winning) and trade Glennon in the offseason (another Rivers/Brees situation).
I can’t see any rational fan wanting to bench Glennon if we’re winning…but then again, it appears there aren’t too many rational fans commenting on JBF.
March 18th, 2015 at 5:08 pm
Tampa needs a pass rusher NOW, and seldom will a rookie draft pick provide that, in his first year.
It has become all too clear to me that Lovie and Company want to field a team of Church Boys, instead of winning Football Games.
A Greg Hardy type of player does not come around often, yet we pass on him when he does 🙁
IMHO, Tampa gave up way too easily on Greg Hardy. We have grossly overpaid for free agents in the past like Collins and Johnson, who were real reaches.
Yet, when a 15 sack guy like Hardy comes around, in the peak of his career, we pass on him, despite having the money to sign him 🙁
Hardy would have done awesome here, playing with McCoy.
I have decided earlier, that I was not going to buy seasons tickets for this year.
This further reinforces my decision that Tampa “talks a good game” about wanting to put a winning team on the field, but actions IMHO speak louder then words.
March 18th, 2015 at 5:09 pm
At Bee…is that why Glennons worst game was better than McCowns best last season? Glennon was a breath of fresh air when coming in for McCown and when EVERYONE in Tampa was screaming for them to just let Glennonn finish the season and see what we had….the put McCown in. When Tedford was lost so was any hope of wining games last year. Lovie knew he had no chance from day 1.
Glennon never got any rhythm to show what he could do. Again Matt Ryan was throwing a lot like Glennon before Koetter worked with him. If we had the falcons offense over the last three seasons with a defense playing like Lovies are known for it would be a fun team to watch. Again not saying he’s the guy but do you know any QB’s that would have ran the offense any better under that play calling? I’d just like to see before we ditch him for good….
March 18th, 2015 at 5:18 pm
@Kevin,
Ok, I have a better understanding of what you meant. We’re pretty much in agreement. I’m all for letting Glennon compete with Winston, but we all know what’s going to end up happening. It’s like buying a Ferrari and immediately letting it sit in the garage while you drive your Corolla. You’re going to think of any excuse you can to start Winston. Fair? No. Reality? Absolutely.
March 18th, 2015 at 5:54 pm
Stop freaking out we resigned Larry English Gosh…
March 18th, 2015 at 5:56 pm
StPeteBucsFan Says:
March 18th, 2015 at 3:13 pm
“IF we draft Fameis and MG8 gets the start at the beginning of the year by earning it…and MG8 started 8-2….”
Boss – Boss – De Plane, De Plane. That’s really living on fantasy island there SPBF.
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MGM is so hilarious.
Look – I’m not down on the young man at all. I think hes’ a very inexpensive, yet fairly solid back up QB in this league for us right now and that we should keep Glennon. He is capable of managing games somewhat proficiently and will keep the turnovers to a minimum (TDs as well unfortunately). This is what he has shown. This is what he is. He’s big, he’s very smart, he’s a hard worker, his arm is acceptable. Plenty of positives there.
But you have to be realistic about Glennon’s ceiling. Based on what he has put on tape in College and 19 games as Bucs starter – the odds look pretty high right now that he will never be even as good as a Flacco or Brad Johnson (which is about the minimum talent level with very good supporting cast that can win you a Super Bowl). He was chosen in the 3rd round from the worst QB class in over a decade for a reason.
You are what your tape says you are. Glennon lovers post his TD to Int ratio stats and compare them to stats of other great QBs early in their careers – as if to suggest that Glennon could and is maybe even likely to become Elite. But they ignore the tape. They ignore the big picture. Stats don’t tell the story in a lot of cases. Yea Elway and Manning and even Luck had quite a few Ints their 1st year or two. More than Glennon in all cases. But in those QBs and others of similar stature – you could just see it. IT! from day one. Despite the interceptions – despite the bad rookie mistakes – you could see IT flash in every game they played almost. I’ve been an avid football fan for more than 40 years. Since I was like 5 years old. You can tell me how subjective and non-measurable my observance of IT is. But I personally stand by what I see and trust what I see in real NFL games. Glennon has flashed IT maybe 3 or 4 times in 19 starts. That’s nowhere close to frequently enough. As it stands right now – Glennon is not capable of taking this franchise where we all want it to go.
I think we should keep Glennon despite the trade interest and needs at other positions – for at least this year and maybe longer depending on how well he continues to develop. Its a long, tough season and lots of starting QBs don’t play all 16 games in a season because of some injury or another. Yet all 16 games are important so it is fairly crucial to have a capable back up QB to give you a reasonable chance to win while your starter is out. That’s what Glennon is right now. a capable back-up. No more – No Less.
Winston on the other hand? The kid oooozes IT. He exemplifies IT. He displays IT multiple times every single game. College is different from the NFL of course so he still has to prove himself at the next level. Just watch and see though. When kid Famous starts flashing IT all over the field – even in his 1st few starts – you will see the difference in what a talented QB can bring to even a sub par offense. Just like Glennon was drafted in the 3rd round for a reason – Winston is going to be drafted #1 overall for a reason.
Better times are ahead Bucs fans. Much better. In 2 or 3 years the whole Bruce Allen, Mark Dominik, Raheem, Schiano, 2-14 2104 season is all just going to feel like a distant nightmare that we finally woke up from.
Lovie knows what he is doing and so does Licht. They walked into a hell of a mess – and there were no quick, easy answers. Despite it making him look bad in year 1 – Lovie wisely tanked just enough of 2014 to set himself up for great future success by being able to get a REAL quarterback with the #1 pick. Couple of good drafts by Licht and the scouting dept gets us “relevant” in a hurry with Koetter and Winston leading the Buccaneer offense.
I for one am excited about the future and just want the Bucs to get a playbook in Winston’s hands as soon as humanly possible so that he can get started pouring all his energy into becoming the best QB this franchise has ever seen.
March 18th, 2015 at 6:02 pm
Glennon finished with a better quarterback rating than Cam Newton! MG is the 3rd best qb in the division. He did that without working with 1st team throughout training camp and preseason while learning a new playbook. Many teams would love to have a quarterback with a 2:1 TD-INT ratio in the NFL. We have 1 but Tampa fans don’t want him. Imagine with a real offensive coordinator and an entire off season to work with 1st teamers… McCown was given the job he never earned it… That was said from Lovie’s mouth the day they signed McClown and it was never let the best man win.
March 18th, 2015 at 6:05 pm
Who the hell are we thinking about trading up for?! All the DE’s that can actually rush the passer will be long gone. I dont see us getting higher than pick 20. With that who do we choose? All these guys are overrated. Except Williams, Fowler Jr., and Gregory and maybe, a big maybe, Shane Ray (i honestly think he’s a lil overrated) after that no DE is worth a 1st Rnd pick
March 18th, 2015 at 6:06 pm
This team is ran BT idiots!!! SMH!!!
March 18th, 2015 at 6:16 pm
Resign Cousins, Gilkey and bring back Arrelious Benn. Also, I would take a look at Alan Zeumitis for cb depth and now we are in business
March 18th, 2015 at 6:58 pm
This draft is going to have to be really impressive for me to bother this year.
March 18th, 2015 at 7:00 pm
@pickgrin:
I didn’t realize that you could find IT. I’ve been looking for IT all over. Despite my efforts, I could find hind nor hair of IT. I’m sure that L & L would appreciate it very much if you would help them find IT, since I’m not sure they could recognize IT, even if IT bit them in the ass. Maybe you even know some other players who have IT, or at least might know where IT is. Thank God we have some fans who know where IT is.
tickrdr
March 18th, 2015 at 7:37 pm
Dante Fowler was my 1st round target — in September. Having the #1 overall pick instead of picking in the 8-12 range means we should be setting the bar higher.
1. Mariota
2. L. Williams
3. Fowler
UDFA: Winston
March 18th, 2015 at 7:53 pm
SuperSam: you are crazy and Lovie would be crazy to take anyone other than one of the 2 QB’s available (prefer Winston). In the end, The Glazers need asses in seats. No one is coming to watch a 2-14 football team with Mike Glennon as the future. Jameis, or even possibly Marcus, immediately brings attention to this team and brings hope to the fans.
Also, as soon as you get over the fact that he did not rape that girl, you will see that the rest of his behavior is that of a college kid. No drunk driving or drugs. Good student and great teammate by all accounts. Get over your hatred and embrace the fact he is coming here.
March 18th, 2015 at 9:20 pm
Yes Dr. – I figured you would probably respond as you are the main provider of Glennon stats as some type of proof that Glennon will develop into a top tier QB.
I can’t disagree that his TD/Int ratio stats are somewhat impressive for a guy that has been operating in a completely disfunctional and surrounding talent lacking environment when given the opportunity to start and play. But even though that particular stat looks pretty good – his play overall has not been very impressive over 19 starts.
I stand by what I see though and a whole lot of people agree with my assessment. Glennon has some good qualities and has done OK playing QB under difficult circumstances. But he just doesn’t pass the eyeball test. He doesn’t look like a starting NFL QB yet after quite a few starts over 2 years.
L&L don’t need my “help” finding IT. They see that Winston is a generational type QB talent and will be drafting him. Of that I am quite sure.
If Glennon is not traded – he will have a chance to prove on the field that he is more qualified than the rookie to win games in the short term. All we can do is watch and see how it plays out.
March 18th, 2015 at 10:21 pm
@pickgrin:
Thank you for a very good and reasonable response.
And I will absolutely concede that those stats are no PROOF of any kind of future stardom, or anything of the sort. My whole point is that the only thing that wins games is to score more points than your opponent, and therefore throwing more TD passes and fewer INTs seems to me to be very important in that process, not how you LOOK while doing it. And it seems to me to be counter-intuitive to say that he is terrible at the deep ball or only throws checkdowns, or to call him “ol’ cement shoes” or whatever other criticisms are aimed at him, when DESPITE all of those limitations, he STILL managed to throw for MORE TDs and FEWER INTs (at this stage of his development i.e. 18.5 games) than most of his contemporaries, as posted by me ad nauseam to date. HOW was that possible???? It must have been his superior receivers, and the Bucs’ fearsome rushing attack. It was probably the OL that protected him even better than the FSU linemen protected Jameis Winston in that video you posted, where JW5 usually had a pocket almost as big as my gameroom to throw from. Maybe it was the offensive coordinator and the superior playcalling. Maybe he only played against patsies like McCown did for half of his stats in 2013 (Minn and Dall — the two worst defenses that year).
Here is another way of looking at the comparisons I have been talking about.
At their same level of experience in the league = 19 games of Peyton Manning, he had won a total of 5 wins vs. 14 losses. He had 33 TDs and also 33 INTs.
After 18 games and about a quarter (Atl game), Mike Glennon has a record of 5 wins vs. 13 losses. (You decide whether he failed to win that Atl game). He had only four fewer TDs, yet 18 fewer INTs. That is compared to a first overall pick and a locksure first-ballot Hall of Famer.
Lastly, subtract the ATL game and just look at the yards per game for the remaining five games for MG8, which equals 257 ypg, which would rank 10th for the entire league last year, in parts parts of only two seasons.
I don’t hope to convince anyone, but I enjoy the banter. I know that few will even see my post, as I bet I am the last poster on a majority of the threads.
tickrdr
March 18th, 2015 at 10:56 pm
You’s guys are too funny. None of us have anything more than a clue, and, or a hope and a dream. We have our respective jobs and our Fandom.
Nothing else
March 18th, 2015 at 11:46 pm
gatorbuc Says:
March 18th, 2015 at 10:56 pm
You’s guys are too funny. None of us have anything more than a clue, and, or a hope and a dream. We have our respective jobs and our Fandom.
Nothing else
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So true, so true! But that and a Club Seat and a cold one can sure pass the time on a Sunday afternoon, especially if we can ever win a game in RJS.
tickrdr
March 19th, 2015 at 12:03 am
tickrdr Says:
March 18th, 2015 at 10:21 pm
“DESPITE all of those limitations, he STILL managed to throw for MORE TDs and FEWER INTs (at this stage of his development i.e. 18.5 games) than most of his contemporaries, as posted by me ad nauseam to date. HOW was that possible????”
Its a fair question and not an unreasonable one. The guy throws 2 to 1 TDS to Ints (almost) in the NFL in his 1st 2 years – and with bad OLines and suspect play calling to boot. That sh!t is hard to do.
And why would 80-90% of Bucs fans watch him do that – yet not be very excited about what they see in him and what they think his future potential is when he’s doing it?
Is it possible to throw 2-1 TDs/Ints in the NFL – even with the disadvantage of multiple known limitations that have nothing to do with him – yet look ugly and awkward doing it?
Apparently that is the case. That word awkward seems to fit Glennon in many ways. From his outward appearance (Napoleon Dynamite comparisons) to his body style to the way he moves with his legs – he just looks awkward. Perhaps that is why I and so many others don’t see “IT” in the young man. Or maybe its just that he hasn’t won very many games as the Bucs QB. That tends to make you look bad.
Maybe Glennon can continue to look awkward his whole career – yet keep improving and overcome the physical limitation of being so immobile and become a very serviceable starting NFL QB.
He’s certainly smart – which is well documented. And he’s a hard worker unless all reports are wrong. And those 2 attributes along with good decision making under duress that protects the ball from being turned over – which his low Int #s basically prove – these are all qualities that you really want in your QB. He’s got good enough arm strength to make all the throws. (Although I have seen him underthrow too many long passes so I still question his long ball arm)…..
I dunno man. Its a mystery in a way how he managed to achieve that stat. None of his other stats look really good like that one does. his 3rd down % can’t be very good. His QBR is not very good. He has 4 wins in 18 starts and hasn’t led his team to victory in crunch time very many times despite some opportunities.
I think to my eye – the biggest complaint I have with him (aside from serious lack of mobility) is that he just doesn’t seem to be a very accurate passer. You can point out that his completion % isn’t bad – but its easy to pad your comp % when you throw a lot of short passes which he does. He is accurate sometimes and makes great throws sometimes – even on some medium and long passes. But too often, he’s just not setting his receivers up for success on throws that are not dinks and dunks and checkdowns.
Its hard to explain – but the bottom line is he just doesn’t look like a starting QB to me. He doesn’t look like the guy who is capable of throwing the team on his back at least a couple if not a few games a year and leading his team to victories and playoffs and Super Bowls.
If he ever becomes that guy – its gonna be for another team obviously. I hope they keep Glennon this year – and if they do – will watch with interest throughout training camp and pre-season to see how he looks on the field compared to Jameis Winston who IMO displayed “IT” throughout College as well or better than any QB in recent memory.
March 19th, 2015 at 1:56 am
Pickgrin, I think your 100% right on Glennon. He has had his chance to prove he can be the guy and has fallen short. When Glennon steps on the field, I don’t think there are any defensive coordinators that are saying “oh no, here comes Glennon”. Glennon has not demonstrated that he is a threat. There is no “IT” factor at all. Game on the line, no one is sweating over how they are going to stop Glennon. He is just not that good.
March 21st, 2015 at 5:44 am
Glennon will be traded for as many picks as we can get. Same with Douggie.