“We Should See A Lot Of Improvement”
March 29th, 2015
Bucs tackle Kevin Pamphile
Previously, Joe has referred to the Bucs’ 2014 fifth-round draft picks, offensive linemen Kevin Pamphile and Kadeem Edwards, as “milk cartons.”
That’s not kind, and it may be a little unfair. But hey, fans were looking for Pamphile and Edwards — and still are — to show signs of life.
Edwards was overmatched at guard in preseason (totally understandable) and was lost in November with a foot injury. Pamphile made a couple of regular-season starts at right tackle had had some fill-in snaps at left tackle. He did a few nice things, but also struggled mightily along with the rest of his line mates.
Lovie Smith was asked about both at the NFL Owners Meetings last week. He is confident they will emerge during their sophomore campaigns.
“We like their potential, and as second-year players, we should see a lot of improvement,” Lovie said. “There’s a reason why we drafted both players, and I think they both will make leaps. Josh Allen, also.”
Allen, for those unaware, was an undrafted free agent last season. The center was on the practice squad before Tampa Bay’s backup center looked like the virgin snapper he was, and Allen was promoted.
Joe talked to general manager Jason Licht about Pamphile and Edwards. Licht said offensive line coach George Warhop will continue to work “around the clock” with them and their progress — or lack thereof — should be telling this season.
“Usually you can tell from Year 1 to Year 2, that’s where you can see that they’ve done it or not, you know, that they’ve made a big stride or not,” Licht said. “At least with my history, I’ve found that to be true. And I’m excited to see, particularly with those two.”
Yes, NFL offensive lineman often take time to develop. That’s nothing new.
Joe is very interested in seeing how right guard Patrick Omameh, 25, fares in training camp after making 16 starts for the Bucs last year. A Schiano-Dominik rookie signed off the 49ers’ practice squad in 2013, Omameh would fit the mold of a guy who should be primed to make a leap, especially after all that experience.
March 29th, 2015 at 11:27 am
IF last year is an indication of this year then we can only depend on the players drafted rounds 1-3.
March 29th, 2015 at 11:27 am
OMG Imagine the wailing and gnashing of teeth if we started an Oline comprised of guys who are currently on the team! And what would happen if they succeeded? The Debbie Downers would be crushed!
March 29th, 2015 at 11:30 am
They will never be successful under Warhop—this was a bad hire.
March 29th, 2015 at 11:33 am
I’ll try to give these guys a chance, we were in some close games last year (in a crap division though). But we still need help even if Kevin and last years picks end up as rotation.
Drafting some starting talent is key:
Cam Erving, Jake Fisher, Flowers, Peat, AJ Cann, Tre Jackson, Ty Sombrailo, Laken Tomlinson…..all possible.
Later rounds….Ali Marpet!
March 29th, 2015 at 11:36 am
I also am interested to see how Pamphile develops. I don’t have the best memory in the world and with that line last year I’m glad not to remember anything, but what i do remember he looked good. Lets hope he turns into an elitist
March 29th, 2015 at 11:37 am
It’s too early to tell whether the current regime can draft and develop players properly or not. Here’s hoping that they can mold late picks into useful players and turn first rounders into stars. I don’t care about what Lovie has done in Chicago. I’m giving him and the rest of the staff the benefit of the doubt. Hopefully he can make us relevant again. If not, oh well, I’m getting used to coaches who fail miserably in Tampa… and that’s somewhat sad.
March 29th, 2015 at 11:41 am
@Jimmy
Agreed. He keeps getting all these props from L&L but how and the hell can he still be around after that disaster of an oline last year? But I’m all about second chances so…
March 29th, 2015 at 11:42 am
Really, for a man who has never snapped a ball before, he did pretty good on game day considering how much practice and work goes into being an NFL center. No he wasn’t great in fact he was below average. But that falls on Lovie and especially Licht for not having someone else with experience snapping the ball.
March 29th, 2015 at 11:47 am
Anyone who expects fifth round offensive line players to start in the NFL in a regular basis really displays how little knowledge they have of the level of play at the pro level.
It happens, but not often. Fifth round means at almost any position they are drafting potential.
Besides, why would you want to subject these poor rookies on a continued basis to the high school offense that Arroyo was running last year and scar them for life.
March 29th, 2015 at 12:12 pm
I think we have 3 draft picks wrapped up in those two players because we used an extra pick to move up for Pamphile. I remember one of the TV announcers (don’t remember game) saying that Pamphile was looking very good.
I expect us to have success with at least one of them.
As far as Warhop…..Lovie was justified in firing him…but kept him…I suspect he provides some stability & continuity going forward….we just never really know what goes on beteen coaches…..they could have easily fired him as he looks like he deserved it.
March 29th, 2015 at 12:17 pm
Yawn…..what a bold statement
March 29th, 2015 at 12:37 pm
Well we already have a couple possible candidates to fill these positions who have now had a year to work out/gain strength and skill. Hopefully at least one maybe both (?!) of them turn out to be good. A lot depends on how hard they worked in the offseason.
March 29th, 2015 at 12:47 pm
Shut up L&L…..I realize to must come out and say this kind of stuff…but after last year…..I’ll watch and wait for respectable football played by the Bucs…
from that great line in “Full Metal Jacket”….
You talk the talk ; do you walk the walk ?
March 29th, 2015 at 1:33 pm
JC how many times does this site have to reload ?
March 29th, 2015 at 1:44 pm
Hopefully they work out for us!
March 29th, 2015 at 1:53 pm
I’m not sure all the Warhop bashing makes sense. First, everyone seems to agree he was working with a screwed up situation in terms of personnel. Second, everyone can see that the entire offense was crippled by the lack of an offensive coordinator. Third, obviously LS and JL have an opinion on him based on having seen his coaching close-up on a daily basis. I’ll trust their opinions before those of the mouth frothing complainers on JBF. It’s typical and so ridiculously easy to just target the coach of a position group when things don’t go well, but it’s not necessarily accurate or reasonable.
March 29th, 2015 at 2:00 pm
@seamonster
I know I’m not a head coach or GM, but L&L had some wonderful opinions about some guys last year by the names of McClown, Ghost Johnson, and Collins and made a 35 year old equipment manager their OC after Tedford went down
March 29th, 2015 at 2:02 pm
There’s always one bitter fan that does nothing but complain. Imagine that…. A 5th round pick had to develop wow. Remember that guy demar dotson? He was no high draft pick if at all drafted. Earliest I hope we go lineman is 3rd or 4th because no matter what defense is going to be key until the offense gets going. Anyone looking for super star drafts picks day one starters beyond the 3rd don’t understand sports or growth. Don’t know how many starters came after the 3rd at every position combined in the entire nfl but couldn’t have been many
March 29th, 2015 at 2:13 pm
SOEbuc Says:
March 29th, 2015 at 2:00 pm
Exactly.
Mistakes are made by every coach/GM in the league. They were very aggressive in trying to overhaul the roster and not all the moves worked out. They reevaluated after the season, and in all the cases you mentioned, they moved on. They also evaluated Warhop, and apparently felt that the performance of the OL couldn’t be blamed all on him. So they kept him. They’re in a better position to judge the man’s performance than you or anyone else on JBF are.
But continue to complain if it makes you feel better…
March 29th, 2015 at 2:19 pm
@seamonster
I don’t know how much complaining i was doing? I said I would give him a second chance. But u can continue to be a (feminine wash product) if it makes u happy
March 29th, 2015 at 2:37 pm
Personally I don’t think we could Put the 5 best O lineman out of this draft and improve our O line . Simply because our O line coach is horrible and seems too only want his crappy cheap guys he knows and it hasn’t been working out for us. Honestly Bucs management went out and got Mankins and previous Bucs management was credited with dotson a success. When will Lovie smith and Licht show us they’re capable of drafting good O lineman for they’re O line coach. Is Warhop really as bad as advertised . I mean it seems so . Nobody believes in him anymore not even fans . He was bad at every stop he landed at in the NFL . The big question is where does tb get they’re knowledge from about O lineman if not from Warhop? Lovie never had an O line in Chicago and licht has yet to pull the trigger on an O lineman for TB. When is someone gonna see this problem. I am all about getting players from the draft and building around the draft . We can’t draft 4th 5th and 6th rd O lineman and hope they start . Gotta draft the best & gotta have the best. If Warhop gets fired who would you guys wanna see as O line coach?
March 29th, 2015 at 3:22 pm
since matt knows so much an probably waiting on the NFL
to call he should be the next OL coach
March 29th, 2015 at 5:07 pm
The idea that Warhop has been bad at every stop is nonsense. All it takes is about 30 seconds of googling to find out that he’s a well respected coach, who was retained by several coaches in Cleveland. That doesn’t happen if you suck. Also was pursued by Andy Reid, who knows more about football than all the clowns commenting on JBF combined. So, quit with the disinformation and the reflexive, mindless, ignorant, frothing-at-the-mouth blaming. He’s a good coach who received unwarranted blame for a generally screwed up offense.
March 29th, 2015 at 5:22 pm
SOEbuc Says:
March 29th, 2015 at 2:19 pm
I guess I should expect this… Anytime someone expresses a reasonable, measured opinion on here, and calls out the reactionary complainers, they get called a douche. Sometimes I think Bucs fans have been getting the kind of teams they deserve.
March 29th, 2015 at 5:23 pm
SOEbuc Says:
March 29th, 2015 at 2:19 pm
I guess I should expect this… Anytime someone expresses a reasonable, measured opinion on here, and calls out the reactionary complainers, they get called a d0uch3. Sometimes I think Bucs fans have been getting the kind of teams they deserve.
March 29th, 2015 at 7:44 pm
Lol.
Soon, our low round draft picks will develop.
Really? How ssurprising?
This coming from the same head coach and O-line coach that reached out and signed Oneil cousins- considered by most ( correctly) as the worst linemen in the NFL. The same guys who paid a 6 year career backup , high end starters money(Collins), to play the critical LT position
If he was that good- why couldn’t he ever beat anybody out for a starting job?
We all knew why last year. The guys here may not be coaches. But most of them know football. Everyone here was screaming that this line sucked. No one louder than me. After the preseason games- we all knew that line would fail.
But the L&L combo said we were wrong. Said wal trip knew what he was doing!
Wrong. Wrong. Wrong!!
They had no idea. That line was what we said it would be!
So now, they’ve said they are happy with DEs we have, and haven’t signed anyone.
And they think the rookies will develop- and the line improve.
Here’s a news flash, fellas. Almost everybody’s rookies improve.
Are they good enought to start? And win?
They better have improved one heck of a lot- because if you couldn’t get major time on THAT line- then you didn’t bring much to the table. How bad must you be,even as a rookie- to not sit “I don’t care” Collins on the bench?
No, I don’t trust them. Not a bit. Not when it comes to this line, or terrible O-line coach. They didn’t know what they were doing last year, and I doubt they went to O-line class 101 this summer.
Has Lovie, Luight, or Waltrop EVER build a good line???
I know the answer to that
March 29th, 2015 at 7:53 pm
And to all you happy little Bluebirds out there
2-14 Make you sing?
The last ten years fill with with joy?
That blind faith paying off for you?
Personally, I hate being down on my team, but I’m tired of being embarrassed to be a Bucs fan every Saturday!
And when L&L have the worst O-line in football, I think they better be busting ass to fix it.
And when all I see is” improved Rookies will improve line”, I almost threw up!
They should have fired the o-line coach. They didn’t.
If that line looks that bad again this year, they should all 3 be fired by week 3
Preferably after a horse whipping in time square.
And a line full of rookies- with a bad o-line coach- could be even worse!!
March 29th, 2015 at 7:57 pm
Apologies for phone changing Licht and Warhop to names on my index
Damn phone
March 29th, 2015 at 8:24 pm
Complainers never tire of complaining, and they’re always certain that their interpretations of events and people are correct. In the mind of a complainer, there’s no room for hope or optimism.
March 29th, 2015 at 9:05 pm
13 years.
Down in the hole.
Lord I get so lonely
Lord I get so cold.
Waiting for wins that never come.
The Jaguars and the Raiders are my piers.
Its a Bucs life.
Yes indeed.
I just wrote that.
(c) Howard 2015
March 29th, 2015 at 9:48 pm
As long as Warhop is in staff, don’t see ANY improvement regardless who is on the line!
March 29th, 2015 at 10:12 pm
Salish- and some people believe what they are told to believe- even when recent and long term history is filled with facts that dispute every word they say.
Politicians must love you.
I hope they are right. But we played this game last year. And despite their assurances and confidences- the line sucked. Just like we knew it would.
Should Logan Mankins be able to organize these guys? Yes
But a bad O-line coach will ruin a bunch of talented rookies.
And a bad O-line coach is what we have
March 29th, 2015 at 10:26 pm
Whatever dude. I choose to believe on the hopeful side. Does being so certain of your negative opinions make you happy? Because they ARE opinions, not facts. You have a choice to be a hopeless pr1ck about this team at a time when we have lots of reasons to be hopeful. But that puts you in the same category of most people who post on JBF.
March 29th, 2015 at 10:41 pm
@seamonster
Yes i was stating my opinion about Warhop that seems plausible with the worst oline in the league. But please don’t call me a constant JBF complainer if i have a negative opinion about something. Lets all be excited buc buddies together tho what do ya say?
March 29th, 2015 at 11:11 pm
Salish.
It isn’t opinion. It is a matter of history.
Or didn’t you watch last season, after they promised this great new Offensive line?
I guess ignorance really does make some people a slap happy lil kiss ass.
L&L said thanks for the licks. They’ll be happy to serve you up another Crap sandwich again this year, as you apparently enjoyed the last crap they gave you so much!
You got a lil on your nose.
March 30th, 2015 at 5:03 am
@bill buc I have an opinion about it just like anyone would with anything. You don’t know maybe one day I am O line coach of the TB Bucs . You would really be eating you’re words then Huh! I didn’t come here too argue though so have a nice day sir. Thats all folks
March 30th, 2015 at 5:13 am
@Sailish Seamonster
Being respected and having respect from players and coaches don’t mean you’re a good coach or teacher. Look on google at where he’s coached then look at his rankings of those lines . If he was good why did he get let go from Cleveland lol? There’s a reason why he is with TB. The fact that he stunk there with those guys then brought them too TB with him really erks me tbh. That’s roster spots someone actually good and talented could of had . Then too make matters worse for TB they never would even bench the poor performing players and try new players . Just kept starting cousins and gilkey like they were Pro Bowlers. Oh and unwarranted blame haha that’s funny. He deserved every part of blame for that poor line. Those were his guys out there . He has no excuses .
He taught those guys nothing and it’s obvious he stinks as a coach because even logan Mankins looked confused and lost out there.
March 30th, 2015 at 10:01 am
Get Tony Sparano in here to coach the o line!
That is all…
April 6th, 2015 at 11:00 am
[…] Smith expects improvement from second-year men Kevin Pamphile and Kadeem Edwards. Joe will maintain hope that one of them can […]